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Comments
And I'm sorry for the trouble with your van -- this is a big deal, to the tune of $5k or so, so I hope it works out.
Your story is unwelcome news -- the 2003s are not supposed to do this. It's not like the earlier ones were designed to fail, but some time before MY '03, the design of the PCV system was changed, because that was part of the reason for the early failures.
I would speculate at this point that your van has some other problem that lead to the failure... 31k is too early, unless the oil was NEVER changed. I'm inclined to believe you, mostly because of your stated "5k-7k" interval.
What I hear from service managers and dealers -- all of this internet and/or seconhand, mind you -- is that when a sludged V6 comes in, the owner always claims to have the oil changed at 3,000. And has no receipts, or has Quickie Lube receipts covering a 3-year period, but consecutive invoice numbers. There are all kinds of shenanigans going on.
It's unfortunate that you change your own oil. Did you keep receipts? Probably not... I didn't keep them either until I bought my 03 Sienna, and I only keep the oil/filter receipts because of the sludge problem. I also keep a hand-written log. The dealer will ask you for proof you changed the oil. I change at 3-5k, depending on conditions, and probably will go to "3k or less" because of your post. Better safe than sorry.
This whole thing makes no sense. If the problem is with engine design, then why do so few of them fail? It's a percent or so.
If it's just the owners neglecting the cars, as the "Toyota Lovers" camp claims, why is it only the "car and minivan" V6, not the one in the Tacoma?
The only theory that fits all the known facts and "facts" is that the engine is more susceptible to sludging under certain conditions, and that for some reasons, neglect among them, it happens on a small percentage of them.
But if you turn it around and ask "what percentage of minivan owners neglect their van", how could it be less than a percent or so??? From the global point of view, the Toyota version ("Neglect!") fits the facts.
None of this is much help if you change your oil on schedule and then the engine sludges up.
I'm still waiting for someone, somewhere to have an ironclad case of Toyota dealership receipts of 5k or better oil changes and sludge at any mileage. If *YOU* have receipts for oil and filters for your DIY changes, that would be nearly as good.
Because I, for one, would like to know what's really going on with these engines. Right now, I don't know.
-Mathias
Instead, you're exactly right. I never kept receipts, because I never thought there'd be a need to. I'd never had a need to do so up until this point.
I did have Jiffy Lube do the first oil change on the Sienna though because the factory filter was on so tight that I couldn't get it off. They even had a hard time getting it off with the best tools they had. I did check everything after to make sure that it had the right level - no overfilling, plug/filter was tight and so on.
I guess that I would have changed the engine oil more frequently on my Sienna regardless of break-down had I known about the sludge problem. Since we bought the mini-van in August of 2002, we never received the letters from Toyota that went out in April(?) and July of 2002 which warned of the sludge problem.
And then again, if I had known about the sludge problem and thought that I would have to provide extra care above and beyond the norm, I probably would have bought another brand of minivan anyway. As I said before, I truly believe that my vehicle would have suffered this fate (maybe somewhere down the road) even if I had changed the oil more frequently. I certainly can't tell you why my van did when so many others haven't - who knows. But I can tell you that this should not happen with this mileage regardless of poor maintenance - I'd bet a year's salary that it wouldn't have happened with the Tacoma - even with, let's say 2 oil changes for that mileage.
All I've ever kept is a hand-written log of mileage and dates. I did not keep this log as verification of maintenance for manufacturers, but as data for myself to assist in checking and replacing the oil, oil filter and air filter. From what I've been reading online, I'm doubting that Toyota will be willing to work with me at all.
I can and will accept blame for part of this as the dealer did actually state that receipts should be kept if you do your own maintenance when I bought the vehicle. And I could have done more research before buying the 2003 Sienna anyway. The stories about the sludge were already out there to be read and I could have found them myself.
I design databases and write software code as well as troubleshooting problems with software and data. The majority of problems I find can be explained, but there are a very few that we never find explanations for - we just fix the problem and keep going. I'm thinking that this is one of those problems with Toyotas.
I too would like to see a concrete example of this happening with proven good maintenance. Maybe then, Toyota would anty up on this.
Again, I think it's a common sense thing that says this shouldn't happen even with almost the worst of maintenance. And with that said, you shouldn't need maintenance records. 31,000 miles isn't that much. And what about those with approx. 20,000 miles - that should definitely be a no-brainer.
If I was closer to the 60K mile powertrain limit, the case would be arguable from Toyota's perspective.
Have a great day and thanks for the info!!
-Coast
This vehicle was still running strong, nearing 80k miles and will make a great used vehicle.
Never did our Sienna leave us walking, unlike the Dodge Stratus it replaced. Never did we have so much as a warning light, except to warn us of a punctured tire. Never had to do brakes, and the original battery was still good. The only thing that broke was the door handle on one of the sliders...those door stuck a bit. Yeah I tore through the original Dunlop tires, but that was to be expected.
Our new '04 LE will be in next week. Hopefully it will be just as good.
And I did read another post on Edmunds, from a guy with a pretty good background, that seems to make much sense, so maybe my comments about problems surfacing even with frequent oil changes are off the mark. It's at: Town Hall Maintenance & Repair Maintenance & Repair - Archived Discussions Engine Sludge? (message # 5271 by bobistheoilguy).
They did feel as if I'd made a reasonable effort to change the oil and the manufacturer is taking care of the repairs under the warranty.
Maybe this all could have been avoided had I received the letters that had gone out in April and July of 2002. It seems like the dealers should have been handing them out as they sold the vehicles. On the other hand, I probably would not have bought the Sienna. Would you?
Thanks,
Coast
"On the other hand, I probably would not have bought the Sienna. Would you?"
Sure would. I've been following the sludge saga for some time and still bought a used '98 in '02 and a new '03 a year later. The '98 is gone (deer accident), the '03 is going strong and is getting the oil changed at 3-4k.
-Mathias
Maybe I'll never understand the difference between the two scenarios, but I do feel as if the Toyota Dealer went the extra mile for us and I'll feel good about buying Toyotas in the future...
Best of luck and thanks for all the info...
Coast
The scenario you just related to this board is just about the same as the five others I've heard live. I think Toyota would like to leave you with the impression that there's nothing wrong with their design or their mechanicals and give you the feeling that they've gone the extra mile for you.
Our Avalon has never gone over 2500 miles without an oil change, yet Toyota told me the same thing!
Dusty
Dillydill
Oil pumps fail....
If i read post 2969 my understanding is that the filter was only changed once!.
Clarke
our #2766 of 2974 Pulls left!! by pemarsh Dec 18, 2003 (7:29 pm)
Does anyone have a problem with their Sienna pulling left..no matter how many times they allign it???
The dealer's service dept appears to have NO clue. How can it be the alternator if there is juice in the battery?
-Mathias
If it's Toyota Certified this should mean it's been given a clean bill of health, correct?
The Toyota Certified label just gives it an extended warranty.
If you choose to proceed, have the valve cover pulled by a trusted mechanic, as this is the only way you can verify whether the engine is sludged or not.
I think that I saw a thread here regarding some of the best choices for tires for the Sienna and will refer to those posts.
Clarke
The dealership just finished repairing this (of course, they had my car for EIGHT DAYS and still didn't have the time to change the oil. Typical of this dealership - but that is another story...).
In addition, did you change brands of gasoline on the gas in the tank when the light came on. Some brands have additives that may cause the light to come on, one of which is that er aaa..., can not think of the name but it is basicly corn whiskey.
I have had both of the above make my check engine light come on another vehicle.
I'm trying to solve a problem with my 2001 Sienna.
Basically, the battery was low so I jumpstarted it off my other car. Everything was going fine, until I was unhooking the jumper cables and I accidently arced the positive and the negative. The engine on the Sienna immedietly died. It now has power from the battery, but will not start. All the other accessories work. What I'd like to find out is: Did I fry the alternator or any other major component? Could I have just blown a fuse?
Any answers will be greatly appreciated. My wife needs the van on Monday, and today is Saturday. I only hope it is something minor like a fuse, or even if I have to change out the alternator thats not too bad as long as it is done by Monday.
With any luck, though, nothing happened except during the short, the engine simply cut out. If the battery was empty before, chances are you didn't let the van run long enough to recharge the battery. It takes ~200 Ampere to start an engine; it takes a small fraction of that to run it -- and with the alternator running, you only need the battery to be part of the circuit and hold 12V, that's all.
So hook it up and jump start it again, just be more careful... don't worry about additional damage; a "jump" is a source of 14 Volts just like anything else. If it's busted, it's busted; if it's okay, you won't break it. Just be more careful.
And please let us know how it turns out.
-Mathias
The one of the O2 sensors would be my best bet for your "check engine." If you have Autozones parts stores in your area, most of them will read the codes for you.
Had it checked out by the dealer, thinking it might be a transmission problem. They said it wasn't, but that both front hubs and bearings needed to be replaced ($922--ouch!), and that they recommended an alignment (another $80). It doesn't sound like any bearing problem I've heard, though, so I'm still on the fence. Anyone out there have a similar problem??
Has anyone installed a two-way or CB rdaio in their Sienna? I am planning to install a CB radio using a cigarette lighter plug for the power connection and a magnetic base antenna
Thanks.
I have checked the fuse and it is good so I replaced the relay and this did not solve the problem either. There are no other electrical issues with the van.
I took it back to the original salesman and he has never had this happen in 8 years of selling.
The service department says it will take about an hour to diagnose the problem at the going hourly rate plus what it would take parts wise to fix. They said they would absorb some of the cost if they can fix the problem.
Has anyone ever had this happen to them before and if so could you help me out if it is something that a normal person might be able to fix? I would like to save some dough if possible.
Thank you in advance for the help!!
I will try and explain it as best as I can.
When you use the lever to open the gas flap there is a arm that drops down in the well of the drivers side slider door. This keeps the door from being slid open too far and damaging the fuel cover flap.
Well when I try and close the door it closes very hard. I thought it might need to be lubed so I have sprayed WD-40 and it does seem to help (not fix) but help. After taking it to my local Toy dealer I have been told by the service department that the cable is broken and that it will cost about $400 dollars to fix. You can imagine that I almost dropped something when I heard that.
Has anyone ever had this issue before or had the need to replace this part?
Like the other issue with the horn, I am mechanically inclined so if it is something that I might be able to do I would like to save some money.
Any help is appreciated!
Thank you, again, in advance!
I also use a magnetic antenna base and run off the lighter plug.
Seems like a broken cable would prevent either the flap or door from working at all.
When I open the manual gas flap on my Quest, it just causes a hook to grab an L shaped bracket on the back of the slider.
Steve, Host
In thinking about it I would have to think that if the cable were broken then it would not drop the arm down at all.
This is an interesting arm that drops down when the gas flap cover is released from inside the vehicle. When you close the gas flap it is retracted back up. In the down position it prevents the drivers side slider door from opening all of the way. I am not sure how to adjust it or where to even look to adjust it.
Is this something that I can do myself or should I take it to the dealer and explain what we think it might be?
Thank you, again! :-)
I always manage to break a clip or two popping door panels off and I've never popped the rear trim off the sides of my van. But Home Depot/Lowes/Ace supposedly sell replacement clips - guess it depends on how much exploratory surgery you want to do.
Anyone had their interior trim pieces out?
Steve, Host
Had the engine check come on for the first time.
Did not look forward to taking to the dealer or any other mechanic and spending $$$
Solution: Autozone has a tool that will provide the codes (for free!). I searched the internet for solutions. It ended up being that the gas cap was not on tight. A few prior, I had someone else fill it up and they did not click the cap a few times.
I went back to Autozone and they cleared the codes for me, again for free.
I took it in to get it fixed on Tuesday morning and I have still not gotten it back and today is Wednesday night. They say that they can not locate why the horn is not working. They feel it is a broken wire some where but can not find it. They have the entire dash opened up.
They asked me if I had ever been in an accident and it has never been. I explained that the only people who touch the vehicle are Toyota certified mechanics. I had it in several times for a dash board rattle that never actually got fixed and that would have been when the dash area would have been opened up.
I am really getting disappointed in the Toyota brand. This will definitley not be a dead issue if I find out that one of the Toyota techs caused this to happen. I have $140 dollars into this already and it is not even fixed yet.
On the cost of things: They gave me an inital discount to $45 dollars for the inital diagnostic and when they could not locate it during that time they asked for another hour at regular price. I authorized this... that is $95 dollars. They told me that they will not charge me any more for the diagnostics or labor since they can not locate the problem... Thus the $140 dollars so far. I will update when I get more information.
Hmmm.... I am in the market for a new small size SUV.... Honda looks real good!!!