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I own a Nissan Pathfinder with a part-time 4 wheel drive system. A direct mechanical link exists to engage the transfer case and operate the front drive shaft.
I am considering the purchase of a replacement vehicle and am looking at a Toyota 4Runner. The 2000 model (SR5) has a floor lever, like my Nissan, which locks in the front drive shaft almost instantly upon engagement, a part time system. The 2001 models have 'one touch 4 wd', which works through a centre differential and apparently allows one to drive in any road condition in 4 wd, without damage to tires or mechanical drive components.
I live in central British Columbia amongst the mountains and valleys, and engage 4 wd, as conditions warrant (snow, ice, etc). I drove a 2001 4Runner, and noticed a delay from when the one-touch 4 wd button was pressed until the 4 wd icon illuminated on the dash. Do you know what mechanical processes exist to account for this delay? My present vehicle actuates 4 wd almost instantly as engaging the floor lever. I like the advanced features of the 2001 Runner, such as traction and skid control, but am concerned that the 'lag' in engaging 4 wd may present a delay in obtaining traction when needed. With a centre differential, leaving the 4 wd engaged would not cause any wear problems, but the increased fuel consumption and loss of power may be noticeable. I have an opportunity to buy a 2000 4Runner SR5, which may be more suitable to my environment.
Thanks
If you don't need the low range or ladder frame, it looked pretty nice at the auto show I went to.
-juice
Personally, I would recommend that you leave the system in 4WD mode at all times. If there is any fuel economy difference it will be negligable, and you will have twice the amount of usable traction than in 2WD mode at all times. As such, in any emergency situation, VSC may not have to intervene as early or as forcefully. FWIW, Consumer Reports ran their Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with SelecTrac 4WD (similar to the Toyota's system) in both 2WD and 4WD full-time modes and found no difference in fuel economy. They recommended leaving the system in the latter mode at all times since it helped to stabilise handling. As for loss of power, this shouldn't be the case at all since 4WD simply redistributes the power from the 2 rear drive wheels to all four wheels. As a result, you also get more even tire wear.
To see a technical view of why full-time/permanent AWD/4WD is better than 2WD, read the following links:
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/tractionturn2.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/tractionturn4.html
Hope this helps! Any questions are welcome, of course.
Drew
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-juice
Drew
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Thanks for the information. To answer your question, I was going straight at about 30 kmh, when I pressed the one-touch 4 wd button. The icon on the dash flashed a few times, then became solidly illuminated. It was fully in 4 wd at this time.
I appreciate your input, as in winter conditions, leaving it in 4wd will be of benefit. With all the electronics and speed sensors etc. do your forsee expenses with servicing, or reliability? I understand that the system is covered by the 5 year/80,000 km power train warranty.
Thanks
Wes
With the 4Runner's excellent track record in mind, I do not forsee any problems with leaving the vehicle in 4WD mode all year around. Actually, a friend of mine has a '99 4Runner Limited (bought it brand new in late 1998 ) that is in 4WD mode all year around, and I have yet to hear him mentioning anything regarding reliability problems, or the lack of power/loss of fuel economy with his truck.
I hope this helps in your decision. Please keep us updated. Happy hunting!
Drew
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My wife's aunt has a Limited model and is happy with it. The only catch is the step in height is very high.
-juice
Drew
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I'm cross-shopping the Highlander and the Outback VDC. My primary uses for the vehicle will be:
1. to drive on beach sand and occasionally through medium-deep snow
2. enjoy a decent ride before I get to the beach so Part Time AWD is out.
In the Outback I assume the VDC wouldn't be an issue after reading about Patti of SOA's test-drive in the sand with no problems.
If I choose the Highlander my best choice would be the V6 with Limited Slip and WITHOUT VSC because of post #477 of 744 Snow and SC by cliffy1 Jan 24, 2001 (10:44 am)in the Highlander Forum, that describes the Highlander stuck in the snow, right?
Tom
Other than the lack of a 4wd low mode in the AWD is there any other reason why one system might be considered better than the other? In a towing application would one system be considered preferable to the other?
Thanks,
Jim
-mike
Let's say you have a AWD vehicle with a 4 speed auto tranny. You have 4 forward gears, with both axles receiving power all the time. There is no low range gearing (not to be confused with 1st or 2nd gear, which every transmission has).
Compare to a traditional 4WD vehicle with a 4 speed auto. It normally operates with 4 forward gears and only one axle getting power. Put it in 4-Hi, and both axles get power. Put it in 4-Lo, and both axles get power, but you use a different set of gears, all much shorter than normal. So there are actually 8 forward gears, if you will, even though you only use 4 at a time (either the Hi or Lo set of gears).
Why, then? Because the much shorter gears give the engine more leverage, if you will.
I took my AWD Forester on the sand last fall, and though it got through just fine (contrary to what many predicted), I could have used lower gearing. The soft sand really eats up whatever torque you have, so a low range would have helped me pull out of deep, soft sand.
-juice
That's mean my car will only work 4WD at 3&4 Gear and 2WD on 1&2 Gears? How does the viscous coupling centre differential benefit? Why Did my Manufacture sign said 4WD? Also does my AWD is same as the RAV4? Does my AWD any better or worser compare to the Subaru Vehicles? Is there any after market manufacture build the VSC? Do you think I need the VSC on my car? Please reply Drew. Thank you very much for time and cosideration.
For the most power the big 8+L in the 2500 series can pull up to 12,500lbs. just in case you were interested, so If towing is an issue the Denali even though it has a more powerful engine, it isn't rated to pull as much!
All of the figures below are for the 2001 model year. There is no Yukon with a tow rating of 8,800lbs except a Yukon XL with the 5.3L & 4.10 and the maximum tow capacity for any configuration of a Yukon XL is 12,000lbs, not 12,500. Not to get to anal about these details, but the facts may be important to those with specific towing needs.
The highest 2wd Yukon tow rating is 7,900lbs with a 5.3L and 3.73 rear. The other 3 configurations for a 2wd Yukon provide the following tow ratings: 6900lbs with 5.3L & 3.42 rear, 6900lbs with 4.8L & 3.73 rear, 5,900lbs with 4.8L & 3.42 rear.
The highest 4wd Yukon tow rating is 8,700 lbs with a 5.3L & 4.10 rear (4.10 rear not available in 2wd Yukon). The other 3 configurations for a 4wd Yukon provide the following ratings: 7,700lbs with 5.3L & 3.73 rear, 7,700 lbs with 4.8L & 4.10 rear, 6,700 lbs with 4.8L & 3.73 rear.
The Denali has a tow rating of 8,500lbs with a 6.0L, 3.73 rear and AWD. (This is the only configuration.) Consequently, my original statement remains accurate that the Denali with AWD surpasses the tow capacity of any 2wd Yukon.
For those that may be interested, here are the tow ratings for the XLs:
The highest 2wd 1/2 ton Yukon XL tow rating is 8,800 lbs with a 5.3L & 4.10 rear. The other configuration for a 2wd 1/2 ton Yukon XL is 7,800lbs with 5.3L & 3.73 rear.
The Denali XL has a tow rating of 8,400lbs with a 6.0L, 3.73 rear and AWD. (This is the only configuration.)
The highest 4wd 1/2 ton Yukon XL tow rating is 8,600 lbs with a 5.3L & a 4.10 rear. The other configuration for a 4wd 1/2 ton Yukon XL is 7,600lbs with 5.3L & 3.73 rear.
The highest 2wd 3/4 ton Yukon XL tow rating is 12,000lbs with the 8.1L & 4.10 rear (sidsamson's figures on maximum tow capacity for 2500 series with 8.1L were also inaccurate). The other 3 configurations for a 2wd 3/4 ton Yukon XL are 10,900lbs with 8.1L & 3.73 rear, 10,300lbs with the 6.0L & 4.10 rear, 8,300lbs with the 6.0L & 3.73 rear.
The highest 4wd 3/4 ton Yukon XL tow rating is 12,000lbs with the 8.1L & 4.10. The other 3 configurations for a 4wd 3/4 ton Yukon XL are 10,500lbs with 8.1L & 3.73 rear, 10,000lbs with the 6.0L & 4.10 rear, 8,000lbs with the 6.0L & 3.73 rear.
I hope this info. sets the record straight and assists those shopping for vehicles of this type with tow capacity as an important criteria.
Still, in normal driving these just aren't much of a factor.
-juice
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/audi.html
Be forewarned, it gets fairly technical and the author is not a big fan of SUV's. In fact, at the end of that article, he provides a link for another article which is actually a fairly well written analysis of SUV technology. I would reccomend both of these to anybody who has an interest in the topic.
rip
Automatic Foresters have a 90/10 split much like your T&C, except that in 1st, 2nd, and reverse gears it's actually 50/50. Still, in winding turns it still understeers.
My manual-equipped Forester is more neutral handling. In the snow I can even wag the tail a bit, and that was true even before I added a fatter sway bar.
So I'd say the 50/50 AWD definitely feels different - in hard turns, all four wheels tend to drift at about the same point (i.e. less understeer).
-juice
In any case, I think I can appreciate why you are cross shopping the OB and the HL. WRT your question, what kind of sand will you be driving in (i.e. loose, packed?)? The reason I ask is because the Highlander doesn't have an off switch for its VSC (neither does the OB VDC for that matter, but it's activation threshold is much higher) and hence the kind of sand can make a difference.
When you say medium deep snow, how deep is that? A few inches?
If you choose the Highlander, I still think the version with VSC would be better because of the stability control system. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. BTW, with the way the Highlander's AWD system is set up, it is possible to get stuck even with the rear LSD (if you don't have VSC).
So it seems the VDC's stability/tracion control is not so intrusive, as Drew mentioned.
-juice
-mike
I think it's capable of more than any sane owners will ask from an Outback.
Of course, we're not all sane! %*}
-juice
Thanks,
Jim
I meant among Subarus. The automatics, with a FWD bias, seem to understeer more. The manuals, less so. Mine has a bigger rear sway bar so it's right about neutral.
The AWD van must distribute weight a bit better, since the drivetrain extends to the rear. With some power also going there, reducing the burden on the front wheels, my guess is it would handle better than the FWD version, but I can't verify that.
If and when Edmunds Live comes around this year, see if you can make it. We had a hoot last year. There were never any lines for the vans (though we didn't try them), and you were basically allowed to drive as fast as you wanted to.
-juice
I'd like to be able to take the Highlander on the beach. Worst case scenario would be loose, deep sand after a long dry spell.
As far as snow in the Baltimore area, it will vary tremendously. I guess 6 inches is typical.
Thanks,
Tom
I have the limited slip rear on my Pathfinder but as to whether that's helped on the beach in addition to the locking diff. I can't say.
Maybe in the future Toyota will include the off switch.
Tom
For sand, it may be better without it.
-juice
/direct/view/.eea61db
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
Am interested in your comparison of the xWD systems in the 2002 Bravada and the 2001 MDX. How would you describe them and what do you feel to be the advantages/disadvantages of each?
Also, for some time Bravada claimed that their xWD system was unique to that model. Is it your understanding that this remains true for the new 2002 models or is the xWD offered on the Envoy the same as the Bravada?
The bravada/envoy have a viscous center diffy, similar to the Astro van/safari and the MT versions of the subarus. Constantly tries to split power 50/50 to the front and rear drive-shafts.
-mike
Question: (just for thought) Is it a workable solution to install locking diffs on each end (driver activated)? Does it even have to be both ends?
I know the units run about $400 apiece so it is a pricey proposition.
heng: what car/truck do you own?
The differential itself actually sounds cheap - it's putting them in that is the trick. In this case, I'd guess that labor will cost you well more than the parts.
Think about yanking out the diffy, probably the exhaust for access, disconnecting the drive shaft, the half shafts, etc. You'd need new seals, so even the parts price would skyrocket.
IMO, trading it in makes more sense.
-juice
If you want "diffs" between the front and rear axles, and between each wheel on both axels, you are basically talking about a JGCL with Quadra-drive.
http://www.jeepunpaved.com/gr-cherokee/4wd/feature2.html
Locking the differential aids whichever axle has lost traction on one tire.
One of the more popular lockers is an ARB air locker. Uses compressed air (compressor needed) but a press of a button locks the differential.
Don't laugh guys, its just a 2000 Jimmy with open diffs. I'm calibrated now to its limitations.
At various times during this episode I was hanging 2 wheels. I was even spinning 2 wheels on the same side. Even got it to go sideways some.
On non-bumpy ground it did great. The same forest track, without the snow is not a problem. So I'm not considering a more capable 4WD, maybe just cable chains.