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Nissan Altima
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Comments
If what you write has merit, then there exists no reason to toss out epithets.
Town Car luxury? Oh brother. Next thing I know people will be calling GM's and Mopars luxury too.
<"...To me, what it boils down to is safety. Speaking from experience in frequent commuting through the metro NYC area, drivers are a lot quicker to cut me off in my Camry than they are to cut me off when I drive the Seq. My insurance company says my Seq is safer for my family. And if my wife is going to be hit by some kid flying around in some souped up rice-rocket, then I want more steel around her to give her the best odds I can. Them's the absolute truth.">
I couldn't agree more with your statement here, as I also live in a big (>2 million people) city. Like you, my wife drives the Sequoia daily with the kids' school, soccer, and music lessons and practise. Give me a sedan anyday and I'll take it over any SUV, for my personal ride, that is. But with a family of 5 (2 kids, wife and grandma), space is utmost need, as well as security for the family. IMO, the Sequoia may be pricy at close to $40k, but no price is too great for protecting one's family, and I consider it a good investment in their welfare and care. The Alty, OTOH, is for the performance-inclined car lovers, although it claims to be a "family sport sedan".... and I can see why many on this forum are for it... You are young and your priorities are different at the moment. Some day you would consider an SUV over that great 250+hp "family sport sedan" as more practical....
'nuff said..
We need to keep in mind the subject of this discussion. We've been all over the map recently, which has heightened the argumentative rhetoric that does not belong here at all.
Let's just talk about the new Altima and leave aside these other vehicles that have somehow crept in here, as well as the personal issues that simply do not belong.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
You may email me if you'd like about the policy, but we will not be discussing it here.
Thank you.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Anyway back to topic:
Some people in this forum said that the later production Altimas had gotten better interior appointments since the early models (which I saw), so on a lark I dropped by the dealership tonight to check it out. I compared the Altima to the Max and here's what I saw:
Build quality:
Maxima: Better build, more substantial feel. No tinny doors, very solid feel throughout.
Altima: TINNY doors, roof (I could push it in with a pinky), the doors vibrated on closing.
Interior fit and finish:
Maxima: Good quality plastic throughout except for lower dash (but who cares there anyway). Solidly screwed together and great looking design and appointments. Nice quality leather too. Seats are firm but comfortable. Could use better cupholders in back.
Altima: No rear passenger door pockets. When the center armrest is elevated, it blocks the cupholder. Has better foot space in back, tho. CHEAP plastic. I can't fathom how anyone could pay close to $30K for this - especially the fake wood trim - its color is a blend of orange and banana, and it peels easily off. The leather is a cheaper grade than in the Max, and the front seats feel too firm, probably less comfortable in the long haul than the Max.
Most of the switchgear is the same in both cars, including the steering wheel. But IMO the Max's interior is better styled and feels more luxurious.
Performance:
I don't have raw numbers but if I have the time I'll research it.
Price:
I compared two indentically-equipped cars and all the Max lacked was a spoiler. The Max had a sticker about $700 more than the Altima. But the salesperson said that out the door, he could sell if for a lot less than the Altima.
If I were choosing between these two, the Max would win my jack hands down. $29K for that Altima? I'd rather buy an IS for that many bills.
For $35K on the IS, you'll be looking at the rear light of the Altima on a qtr mile run.
With a little tweaking on the Altima, it can outperform the WRX.
Oh, by the way, next year's Accord will have a V6, 3.2 liter. It will NEVER match the Altima 240 hp. The 4 cylinder Accord will have 2.4 liter iVTEC with 160 hp.
The Altima/Maxima has set the standard for the V6 class.
Since people love sources for statements like this - where's yours? What kind of tweaking to the Altima can you do that will give it better handling traits than WRX's 4WD system? If you have such a solution, you should propose it to Nissan - that can get you rich.
BTW the IS can be had for much less than $35K, and since dealers aren't budging on the Altima's sticker, a shopper would be crazy not to consider alternatives like the IS, TL, Maxima and a SLEW of better-built cars. When you consider the montly payments, a few extra bills would get you an even better car like the new ES or I35. The Altimas can go fast, but a year down the road that speed will be accompanied by a symphony of rattles and squeaks.
If you're shopping for a Nissan, I can't see how you could come out of the showroom with the Altima and not the Maxima. With the two sitting side-by-side, even I could see the Max has the Altima beaten in EVERY category you could choose by.
Not to mention it's much easier to tweak a turbo - $50 for a manual boost controller will do more than an $800 intake/exhaust systems could for the Alty.
I like the 240hp V6, but think about it. It's flexibility is the one characteristic I like best. Add a large diameter exhaust, and you'll give up some low-end torque. Do the intake and you get more noise. There is always a trade off.
I agree, though - the V6 sets the standard for the class.
The IS is very nice, but it's tiny inside (a 2+2 even) and RWD, so not exactly a direct competitor for the Altima. And a loaded Alty costs what a stripped IS costs.
You just can't make conslusive arguments about the Max vs. Altima like that. The Maxima does the back-axle-boogy over bumpy roads, due to its non-independent rear suspension. The Altima's ride is far more controlled. And you have no idea whether it will rattle in a year, noone does yet. The Maxima also weighs more and offers less room. Styling is subjective but that alone would have me running to an Altima.
-juice
the difference between the Altima 3.5 and the Maxima is less than 40 pounds.
I decided to go with the Maxima because of the 6 speed, HLSD and I love the styling (don't laugh at me :-) ).
BUT...
If the Altima had a lsd and a more inviting leather interior, I would of bought it in a sec.
Just my .02 cent. ;-)
I'd want the HLSD too. Seems odd that they put it in the Sentra and Maxima, and hot their newest platform with the indy rear.
My wife likes the Maxima's styling, too, but she likes the Altima even more.
-juice
I like to drive a stylish car and the chassis really won me over. But I wouldn't deter anyone from buying the Max. The Altima was a better car for me but if anyone likes the Max more, I wouldn't blame them.
-juice
I just did a quick comparison between the Altima 2.5s and the Accord LX (they are comparably equipped and priced).
Accord
The gist is that the Accord is priced higher has less power and DOES NOT have the option for ABS or Side Curtain Airbags.
Altima
The Altima on the other hand has more power more torque and DOES have the option for ABS which is 4 channel and comes bundled with Sidecurtain airbags for the front and rear passengers. When you add the price of just that option the Altima is about the same as the Accord LX without ABS or SCAB (yuck on that acronym)
Obviously the impact studies have yet to be done on the Altima so we can't know if the structure is safe but simply the addition of ABS would bring me peace of mind. I know I wouldn't have had one of accidents if my car had been equiped with it.
The rest comes down to drivability and Reliability
Drivability
That's a very personal thing but I prefer the slightly more sporty suspension setup on the Altima
Reliability
Should be very close. The Accord is good but consumer reports rated the Maxima higher so you can expect reliability similar to the Accord unless Nissan REALLY messed up.
(all price comparisons are MSRP assuming, with time, some budge room on the Altima)
-juice
Of course I think the new Camry is ugly but that's my opinion.
Correction: the Accord LX does have the option for Side Curtains but still no ABS
(throwing tantrum) But I want it now mommy. (chuckle)
But then again, this is all just me re-hashing and patting myself on the back!
And I know, I know, we don't know how good a driver the WRX guy was, so let's not go into it again!
I'll drop it!
Obi
Okay dude, get real... A WRX vs MAXIMA SE? The WRX will win EVERY TIME under equal conditions and drivers.
At the risk of what has been pretty much reported, I found the leather-like interior just too downscale. If I were to buy this car, I would go with cloth, which I have no problem with anyway.
The looks on this car as sensational, and the trunk is quite large enough for my needs. The dashboard and overall interior feel strikes me as quite typcal of Japanese cars in the mid-teens, not as classy as that of say the Maxima.
I test drove the 6-cylinder auto and was not as impressed as I expected for a car that has supposedly clocked 6.5 (or better) with a stick. This is subjective. To me it felt like an 7.5-7.7 0-60 car which is fine, except I want even more pep in my next car. I did appreciate the torque - it not that noticeable, but the smoothness of power was nice. The tightness of the steering was exceptional - I wonder how many miles that will standup for.
If this car were - with cloth and a an auto 3.5 listing for $22 or even 23 and selling for $1,000 less, it would be much more attractive. As it is I think it is overpriced. I can remember a few years ago you could (briefly) buy a Maxima for $20,000! As several astute posters have pointed out, you can now buy a Maxima for about the same price - or even less. The Maxima interior and overall is a car in a different class. The Maxima probably has only one year left before redesign, so this isn't the best year to buy one.
I didn't get a chance to put the Altima through a good test of handling, but what I did experience did not dissapoint me.
Having gotten used to the ride of a luxury sport cruiser, the Altima would take a little adjustment, but this is where it is apples vs. oranges.
To conclude, as long as the Maxima is priced so similarly, the Altima is not a great value. My dealer showed me Altimas on his lot priced at $29.5K. For those in the market for an Accord, 626, Camry sort-of car, it is definitely worth a look.
Aurorabill
95 Aurora (98K miles)
aurorabill: I agree with almost all your points. I ad a similar assessment after visiting the dealership and looking at the Altima and Max. I would not, however, discourage anyone from considering the Max when looking for a V6 sedan - especially so since the Max is a near-lux car (when optioned so) with good performance. Even if it's due for a redesign next year or os, it's still a great buy now.
Still, even if one were to look at the 2.5 models, in the low 20K range, they would have to seriously reconsider the quality of the car (in build, fit and finish, quality of materials ... although some people are willing to overlook those 'liveability' criteria in favor of the 'driving experience', which in the 2.5 is hardly better than the competition), as compared to others in that price range and car-type. The Accord and Camry both have much better qualities in those areas and with similar pricing. The Altima, I agree with you, woud be a great buy in the $16-$19K range, but that's not going to happen with the way dealers are gouging now.
Could have sworn I said all (or part of) that a few times already But seriously, an '02 Altima in the $16-19k range ? Get with the times, I was told... you haven't shopped for a CAR (emphasis mine) in half decade, I was told... where would you get a family sedan (sans the Hundai's, of course) for under $20k, I was told... Now you, fasterthanu, dare to suggest a 16-19k price for an '02 Altima. You must be kidding, right ? Yeah, maybe a stripped down model, yes ? Sheesh ! don't say that too loud around here or you might get run out town....
BTW, you don't happen to own a Max and a full-size SUV now do you ? If you do, you are in for more rough times around here, hehehe....couldn't resist that joke
The 2002 Camry was just reviewed by Edmunds and although it was qualified, they had a number of rattles and minor build quality issues. What? The Camry? That can't be! Just like there were several Honda Accords with misaligned body panels that I saw...
Don't confuse cost cutting using cheaper plastic with lower build quality.
cupholder1: "Okay dude, get real... A WRX vs MAXIMA SE? The WRX will win EVERY TIME under equal conditions and drivers." A 6 speed 2002 Maxima SE with LSD vs a WRX would be very close. Current published times for the Altima 5 speed have it at anywhere from 5.9 secs to 6.4 secs. I haven't seen any published times for the Max yet (I don't think that the LSD is available yet) but expect it to fall in the mid to high 5s or just about where the WRX is. That said, the Manual has only been out for a couple of weeks and if Obi has an auto Max then I tend to agree that the WRX driver didn't really come out to play.
No way, an article actually had a complaint about the Camry? That's sacrilege! Next thing you know they will bring up the fact that Toyota has decontented the Camry 5 times in the last 10 years! If you want to get an idea of this, look at the gap when you open the driver's door where the door meets the front quarter panel, you see exposed foam padding. And they still haven't broken the critical 200hp factor. Fact is you can't go wrong, quality and reliability wise with a toyota, nissan or honda, my family has had all of these for many many years and gobs of miles,
all have given excellent service, only junk we had was my escort in high school. So, if you like the altima better than the CAMCORDS, get it, if you like the others, get them, I would have no problem recommending any of them to any of my family. If it was my grandmother, I would recommend the Camry, if it was my Brother, I would recommend the altima.
OAC, I don't own a Max but my next door neighbor does (loaded) and it's a GREAT car for the money he paid last year, which ironically is less than what a loaded Altima costs now.
And I wouldn't worry about debating people on these forums - it certainly makes for interesting discourse, wouldn't you say? If they gang up on you let me know and I'll help ya out!
And I personally have seen an Altima 2.5s, on the lot no less, for under $20k (barely) It was "stripped" (power windows locks AC telescoping/tilt steering CD Auto etc). The Altima will be the same as every other "spotlight" car (WRX, P5, IS300 etc) The price will soon become negotiable and less than MSRP will become the norm.
the center console shakes about too much. The pop-up armrest feels easily breakable and blocks the cupholder when up. The plastic around the HVAC and radio controls scratch easily. The 'wood-like' trim that peels off like a plastic Pokemon sticker. Their orange/banana color looks ugly too IMO.
Did Nissan really claim the Passat as their benchmark? I didnt know that.
Ok I understand, personally I was trying to judge the interior on materials and quality not necesarily design flair. I felt that the materials were just fine. I will agree that those gauge "pods" aren't the most attractive and the gauges aren't nearly as pretty as the maxima but I personaly wouldn't call it an "unabashed dud". The 97 Saturn SC2 (my car I hate to admit, I'm sorry it was a great deal and I needed to replace my car fast) now THAT's an "unabashed DUD"! The Altima is merely a bit disapointing to me. I still feel that the Altima is a very worthy competitor to the Accord and Camry
1) Dark cheap plastic
2) Light cheap plastic.
BTW...I am a BIG Nissan fan, but I call it like it is.
Speed
Cup & Blueguy - Why don't you guys come over and bring your WRX's so I can race you? What's that? Oh, you don't OWN a WRX! That's right! Go ahead and bring the VW's. That should be an easy accomplishment. I'll even give you a head start!
Don't go stating things if you don't have back up!
Obi
2002 Nissan Maxima SE
Sterling Mist/Frost
3600 miles
I go to Nissan News all the time. Read everything I can get my hands on about the company and I still like my 91 Stanza more than my 2001 Jetta 1.8T. I'm still considering buying a Nissan and trading in my Jetta. But I'll probably go for a Max or G35.
Take your own advice, chief. You remind me of the people on VWvortex who gleefully recount dubious tales of 1.8Ts besting S2000s. Please, you've got a story that's just really tough to swallow and you wander around chest puffed up as though people are gonna believe a Max can take a WRX, assuming both drivers know what they're doing. I love Maxes, but they're just not equal to the WRX in either straightline or handling performance.
Live in your dreamworld.
1) I stick to my statement that, on average, suvs cost more to buy and to own. As for crapgame's $40 k suv costing almost as much to insure as his toyota camry, that has nothing to do with his insurance company deeming the suv safer than the camry. The suv just costs them less than the camry on average. Why? Because for several years the camry has been either number one or number two on the list of most stolen vehicles in the US. Besides, one data point doesn't make a trend. Even if the insurance costs come out about the same, the point of the extra expense of buying, maintaining, and fueling still stands and easily swamps any difference in insurance, which still may go in favor of the car.
2) As for size issues:
a) Not being able to put an adult in back seat with car seat in middle for any more than a short trip:
i) This is a question of vehicle width. The altima is every bit as wide as your average mid and small sized suv. In order to get anything wider, you need to either be willing to buy one of the very few mid or small sized suv's that are wide enough to be comfortable in the above situation (this is a fine hair to split here, and is also a matter of taste), or you better be willing to pay for a full sized suv
ii) Ask yourself how often you will need to take an adult in the back seat along side your child in the baby seat for more than just a short trip. Compute how many miles this would add up to relative to how many you drive total. Pretty small fraction, I bet. Not nearly enough to offset the down sides of the suv, I bet.
b) Not having enough room to fit baby, car seat, presents, stroller, baby bags, toys, 2 suitcases, etc..., without having the wife sit with the friut cake on the floor. Again, how often does that happen? Christmas and on my kid's birthday? I believe in buying a vehicle that meets my needs the majority of the time, not buying the one that is best only on occasion and represents numerous compromises for the majority of my driving. I know that for me, the altima will be plenty big enough 95% of the time, no exaggeration. Besides, so your wife has to put the fruit cake on the floor, so what?
3) Safety should also factor in handling and braking ability, and the vehicle's propensity to tip over. This is a complicated issue. It's not just a matter of saying my vehicle is biggest, so I win, or bringing up some anecdotal evidence and running to the ends of the earth with it. There are many factors to consider. Some weigh in favor of size and weight, some against. All weigh in favor of good design and excellent road manners. A car with good crash test scores (admittedly yet to be proven for the redesigned altma), good safety features and a safe design, good size, and excellent maneuverability, stoppability, and stability should go along way towards providing safety for you and your family.
4) Whether or not you want to share this with your spouse is entirely up to you, but the fact that a person is considering purchasing an altima means that he or she wants to have some fun while driving. An altima will be more fun, IMHO, than an suv, particularily an suv in its price range.
If this is off topic, fine I'll take it to the appropriate list, but I don't think it is as it directly pertains to a post from a person considering purchasing an altima.
Some of you guys are just being brutal. I drove one with cloth and no wood and it looked fine to me. So, Nissan spent the cash on the 240hp powerplant. True.
You think that is a bad thing?
-juice
Net result was $18,799.50 ($18,450 "invoice" plus $349.50 "documentary fee" - or "minimum markup" in my book), plus NC tax and tag. Total cash price $19,408 out the door - no trade-in or financing - vs. sticker of $19,626. This is for a 2.5S auto without convenience package (too much money for alloy wheels, power seat, and electronic toys in my book), with mats, microfilter, and mudguards.
Dealer is Harrelson Nissan in Rock Hill, SC (suburban Charlotte, NC). They operate Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, and Ford stores in the area and their prices are typically hard to beat.
Car is beautiful - silver with charcoal trim - and turns a lot of heads. Driving experience has been wonderful - no problems, although only 500 miles so far. It accommodates my 6'8" frame with plenty of room to spare, on a level with Passat for a WHOLE lot less $$$.
Also, I know what happened that night, so please if you would, let me live in my dreamworld. Oh, that's right, it was a REALITY that night.
That said, I actually WOULD like to race a WRX Sedan and see what happens. I don't care if I lose. I would like to see how close it is. It is NOT going to be huge margin, I'll tell you that! Remember, I drove a WRX sedan and it was fast, but it did not feel much faster than my 02 Max. It is all just fun and games...hey, where is that "My car is better than your car!" topic?
Also, I need to drive one of these new Altima's to see if I am missing anything.