Colin, thanks for the explaination. Just learning stick I've been keeping it in a higher gear than necessary I think. I'll try to downshift more often.
Without taking the steering wheel apart, anybody try and take the cruise control lever arm sticking out of the steering wheel out without breaking it off?
It gets in my way, and I NEVER use cruise, but I don't wanna break it in case I ever have to put it back.
I think the shift points in the owner's manual assume that you're on flat ground, something that often isn't the case if you chose a Subaru in the first place. (= I find that keeping my RPMs above 2.8k works well in my WRX Wagon (5mt) unless I'm cruising flat/downhill on the freeway with nobody slowing down and speeding up in front of me.
Thinking about switching cars to something more practical, yet sporty. The WRX wagon seems to be a good bet. What are the downsides to the WRX? I gather from recent posts that paint quality is an issue? Any others? I know I could scroll through this discussion, but there are almost 2000 posts!! Thanks in advance for any help.
I don't think the paint quality of the Subaru is any worse than any other modern car. Modern cars use environmentally friendly paint and on a whole are weaker than paints from, even say a decade ago. On my Audi A4, the paint is put on by long multistep process (one of the deepest glosses around) and it gets scratches and chips just as easily as my Subaru does. I've heard people complaining the WRX chips easily, but the real truth is that any paint will chip if a rock at 80 mph hits your hood.
Do the proper things to take care of your paint and your paint will stay looking new for years. Staying further back when following cars, hand wash, wax regularly and stay away from brushes and abrasive car washes. Add a transparent Stongard bra to the front of the car will minimize the paint chips from rocks.
My Miata, with a manual timing adjustment, would ping like a slot machine hitting the jackpot at 2000 rpm even under light load.
Try to keep the engine above 2000rpm at least, maybe even 2500rpm under load (hills, towing, etc).
For optimal gas mileage, the owner's manual for my Forester recommends shifts that work out to about 3000rpm. That drops revs to about 2000rpm, so that's OK for level ground.
If your goal is a practical sporty car. The WRX wagon really meets those requirements. For its price range, I find the ride excellent with the standard tires, the seats are very comfortable; the ride and quietness are excellent, four adults fit easily, and its got plenty of cargo room.
Also, the little sucker will run like a bat out of hell. Lots of fun.
Like warpdrive, I have seen no more problems with paints or dings than any other car I have owned. I have had mine 6 months and have no perceptable chips, scrathes, and dings. I am careful with all my cars.
I haven't noticed engine noise as a problem, but I really have never even paid attention. However, it does give a good excuse to take it out this afternoon to see.
can't comment much on it yet, as I've had my car less than two weeks so far.. (and yes, I'd do it again in a second!!) (though I did notice already a really slight scratch on the driver's door by the window *sniff sniff*)
however, as a comparison, my 2000 honda accord coupe which I traded in for the wrx had a hood which was starting to look like a 16 yr old boy's face if you know what I mean.. chips a-plenty, some spots were even starting to rust slightly due to total loss of paint down to the metal from road debris (the trucks on I-95 are merciless!)... also, just looking through some of the honda/acura forums at random, I saw some discussion of weak paint quality even on the newer models...
so.. I guess I'll just throw this out for general consideration: is subaru paint quality necessarily any worse than other major manufacturers?
As far as the other major issues that can potentially deter from getting a wrx, the ABS thing kind of scared me a bit at first, but reading a lot about it (and now a few hundred miles experience too) convinced me that if anything it is something common to all subarus in general, not just specifically the 2002 WRX, and besides I find the brakes to be superior to my accord anyhow. The other thing that people complain a lot about sometimes is the transmission (for the 5MT) but the general consensus there seems to be that if you're not trying to drive like the fast and the furious you shouldn't really have any problems...
(also some people don't like the stock tires, but that's easily correctable ;-)
I don't know whether my '99 2.5RS pulsed all four wheels at once or not-- the WRX definitely does-- but it did not behave like a WRX under bumpy ABS engagement.
I've autocrossed a WRX in a less-than-perfect lot and I felt what many owners are complaining about.
I just read another rant and rave on iclub about paint scratches. I just washed my 1 year old OB and 6 month old WRX and have no scratches, a few rock hits, but no scratches. It is hard to believe that Subaru did a special paint job just for me.
A part of my normal detailing regime is to clay the car before I apply my paint protection (Klasse in my case). On the WRX, I did this about a week after I bought the car. The clay got more grit off of the new WRX than any car I have ever known. I assume that is was some sort of contaminant from the trip over. I actually threw that clay bar out after just the WRX application. My theory is that the WRX scatching problem is caused mainly by this crud (like sandpaper) and bad washing techniques.
I would recommend anybody with an WRX to use a clay bar as soon as possible to really clean the car.
The grit on my OB from Indiana was not nearly as bad as the WRX from Japan.
I've found that paint quality in general has suffered, either from cost-cutting or from using more environmentally friendly techniques to apply them. Luxury makes may be an exception, if only some of them.
Shortly after taking delivery of my WRX 5spd sport wagon I read a newspaper driving test that left me wondering if we were talking about two different cars. They wrote that the engine drone was unacceptable at highway speeds. Furthermore, the rushing noise of the air going down the hood scoop took some getting used to. My WRX has the stock exhaust. In fifth gear the engine is silent at highway speeds with light throttle and only slightly louder under power. As for the whoosh of the air going down the hood scoop, I ask, what whoosh? I haven't been in another WRX. It was love at first sight.
Reviews of noise levels in car reviews can be subjective. Did the article state an objective dB measurement? Many articles that I've read on the WRX commend it for a ride that's very quiet for it's class. It's not going to be Lexus whisper-quiet, but I'm sure it fares very well against other sport sub-compacts.
Ken, The driving test was subjective with no db readings. I agree, the car is reasonably quiet. I do notice the quality of the stereo with upgraded speakers and the subwoofer diminishes with speed. Without an equalizer I usually have to back off the bass as the volume is increased to overcome cabin noise. There are times when I consider an expensive speaker upgrade but the sound quality is so good sitting still or with the engine off, I wonder if it's worth the trouble.
Well it *IS* a 2.0 liter engine. What did you expect from a dead stop on a 2.0l car weighing 3000+lbs and no turbo (til it kicks in)? No replacement for displacement.
Some while back someone here posted a link to a site selling protector screens for the intercooler. I believe this was a stainless steel screen w/ a frame that matched the hood scoop gasket. I seem to have lost the link. If anyone has it do you think you could repost it?
Being the owner of a WRX wagon, former owner of a Forester and husband of the owner of an original 2.5 RS I can tell you that the WRX is the quietest of the three. In fact 80+ mph is too easy and quiet to cruise at. No tickets so far but I've really gotta get that radar detector fixed.
PS, never trust car reviews with "unacceptable noise" in them. These are 90 year old reviewers who can't see over the steering wheel of their Cadillac.
Hello all, I just finished a 2300 mile, 4-day trip from San Francisco to Chicago in my wagon. A few observations:
I got about 20-21 miles/gallon, but I was loaded down with maybe 500 extra lbs of luggage.
Cruise control won't engage over 90mph.
I raced a 3000GT in the nevada desert. The engine pulls like hell up to 115mph but it pretty much groans from there... acceleration above that is slow.
Terrible wind noise at about 125mph. It just howls.
Got my first paint chip on the hood. Paint is as soft as people say.
Seats are wonderfully comfortable. I did 700 mile days and felt just fine at the end. Cruises nicely and quietly at 85mph for hours on end.
Radio antenna could be better.
Turbo is great at altitude. I cruised through steep grades in the sierras fully loaded no problem.
I went through some of the fiercest rainstorms that I have ever been through both in the Wasatch mountains and in the desert west of elko. I never felt unsafe even on steep grades in the worst weather at highway plus speeds. The subie handled beautifully in the wet.
This car is so easy to merge in. I looked forward to rest areas so I could blast up the on ramp at full acceleration.
Best gas mileage was 25mpg. Bought the gas at a no-name truck stop in Wyoming. They didn't have 91 octane so I got the mid-grade, and got 4mpg better per gallon. Don't know how it happened, can't explain it.
Higher altitudes do not require as much octane for a given engine. Therefore, you didn't need 91.
Regarding the 4 MPG, it could have been the thinner air, lower temperatures, lack of AC use (if driving at night), or simply an overall downhill route. Even if there's hills if you're loosing altitude you'll tend to get more MPG.
Could've also been a math problem. ;-) Just teasing.
I may be alone here, but I *like* the dual nature of the WRX. It's a docile, refined commuter below 3000rpm, quiet and smooth, with great gas mileage when you are just going from point A to point B.
But above that rpm, it opens up and sings a sweet song, tearing the road to shreds.
Also, if you happen to give your mother-in-law a ride, she'd never know what kind of performance it was capable of, even the ride would be tolerable, space decent.
But give a ride to your brother-in-law instead, and you can impress him just as easily.
I noticed a howl between 130-140mph on my sedan with a rear wing. I wasn't sure what it was but it sounded like a tornado or something mechanical. The noise quickly vanished as I dropped below the above limits.
I am finally ready to order some new wheels and tires for my wrx wagon. I called to place my order(rota attacks in 17") and I wanted to get 225/45/17 falken Azenis, but they said I should get 215/45. I know this is a long debate, will the 225 rub or not. I have read post where people say it has, and some who say it doesn't at all. Considering I am becoming involved with auto-x, I would like the full potential of the 225s, but I also don't want to get any rubbing during aggressive driving. Any suggestions? -scott
I believe 225-45s will be fine if you plan on keeping the suspension close to stock. If you want to get coilovers etc in the future, and if you want to lower the car, then maybe 215-45s will be better. The wagon has a narrower track and some people on I-club reported rubbing with the Falkens and Tein coilover suspension. I have Kumho 712 225-45s, and I did auto-x two weeks ago with no rubbing. The Kumhos gave plenty of warning before breaking away (only slightly). The car pushed way too much around the track. I have stock suspension btw.
My mind says to play it safe also, but the falkens don't come in 215s. I could get the Kumho tires, but I have heard better things about the Falkens. Is there really that much of a difference between 215s and 225s? Of course, I have yet to drive a car with either falkens or Kumho tires, so I really can't be too bias. -scott
The Falken Azenis is a FAR better tire than the Kumho 712 but it doesn't last anywhere remotely as long. At best the Azenis is a 12,000 mile tire, much less when used for its intended purpose of autocross/gymkhana, light track duty and fast road.
In 215/45-17 I'd try the Dunlop FM901. I've researched it heavily as it is one of few tires available in the 235/40-17 size I need and not megabucks.
Anyway this tire is new to North America but Australia, Japan and NZ have had it for a while and they like it from what I've read on Aussie and Kiwi messageboards. They don't care for the Kumho 712 much except as a dirt cheap, better-than-nothing summer tire.
You can get the 215/45-17 FM901 for $93/tire plus shipping from www.tirerack.com or $99/tire with free UPS ground shipping from www.discountiredirect.com.
In my case it comes out about $18 cheaper to go with Discount Tire and I'm in no hurry to get them (Tirerack is cheapest on Fedex 3 day interestingly).
It was a little intimidating, but I survived, went off course the 1st. run, knocked down a bunch of pylons in the final turn on the 2nd run, finally made it thru on my 3rd run, what a blast! The Subie wagon is nice coming out of the longer turns, but as a novice I found it hard to corner into the sharper turns, may be due to my lack of experience, I noticed the BMW's doing very well. The Imprezas were holding their own, but I was impressed with the M3. " What a Car!" I was proud to be driving the only Subie Wagon at the event, I hope to keep going and picking up some driving tips...Any help or thoughts will be appreciated.
Be sure to check out the auto-x discussion I started in the "news and views" section on here. I auto-xed on sunday as well. We had almost 30 subies at the event @ Giant's Stadium! I drove a WRX for the first time during a fun run and found it pushed a lot throught the turns.
I am about to purchase wheels and tires from revolutionsmotorsports.com. They make a prodrive p1 replica and some other great rota wheels. Anyway, the salesman told me that they are no longer stocking falkens because of numerous problems and complaints they've had with them. He recommended the kumho 712 for anything but all-out agressive driving.
I just ordered my rota attack wheels with Kumhos on them. Originally I was set on the 225s Falkens, but when I heard they only last 10,000 miles, forget that. I am an aggressive driver, but I am also an aggressive driver with a budget. I will still auto-x with the kumhos, I won't be the fastest around the track, but I will definately be the one who can carry the most cargo. p.s. They did tell me though that they still carry the falkens. -scott
Yes, they are still carrying the falkens, but they are no longer ordering them. By the way, what about the summitomo? Is this a better tire, since it is about $50 more per set and $200 less than the toyo proxes and pole so3. I know what wheel i like, but once i purchase a set of tires, i'm stuck with them for a year or two. I can't decide among the summitomos, kumhos, bridgestones and dunlop 501. Any help? Also, where are you getting your package from? Is it vividracing or revolutionsmotorsports?
I hear they are the best "low-budget" tires for the street. They are using the old molds from Dunlop who owns them so they are very similar to some older (and probably better) dunlop tires that were out.
actually guys I just picked up a set of closeout Yokohama AVS Intermediate from the tirerack. $67 each in my size, couldn't pass on that deal. you might check to see if they have any in your sizes.
the AVS-i was great in its day which was about a decade ago. it's still a good tire, but gets hard with age and looses a lot of rain traction. still, it's dirt cheap and I go through summer tires pretty fast.
Personally I'd cough up the extra $100-200 for the S-03's... that's a terrific tire from a proven and trusted brand. The S-03 is the top-rated max performance tire on Tirerack's survey-based rankings.
My coworker just replaced his 712's on his Mustang with the Sumitomos. He commutes 100+ miles RT per day so he buys new tires every year. He liked the 712's initially but as they wore, dropped off in wet and dry performance. Although his Sumitomos are new he rates them better than the Kumhos. If I had 17" on my WRX I would consider the HTR ZII or the HTR + for an A/S tire for the money . The Dunlop FM901 is cheaper but has a lower treadwear and the traction rating if that matters for your driving style.
I'm considering a WRX wagon. does anyone know when the SSTi is coming and how much more it'll cost?
I'm also considering a used S4 Avant, or A4 Avant. I had a V70 T5 5spd that was great except the torque steer drove me to sell it! But now I miss that turbo rush and that wagon versatility that my C280 doesn't offer.
a STI version of the wagon in case the wagon is what you are only considering. There is a STI wagon in other markets but all the talk has been of a STI sedan only for the US of A.
I have a WRX wagon w/the Vishnu Stage 0 putting out about 275 crank HP. I don't presently have any cravings for a STI version consequently. :-)
Why is it that everyone who upgrades their HP thinks that they have no need for the STI? The most significant thing on the STI is the tranny which is upgraded and can handle the additional HP that the engine puts out. That is the weakest link in the current WRX the 5MT.
because I don't believe the STI tranny is worth about a $6k difference in price for one thing. Also, it's easy for you to pontificate about the STI when you don't already own (rather are making payments on a WRX) :-)
Comments
-mike
-Dennis
It gets in my way, and I NEVER use cruise, but I don't wanna break it in case I ever have to put it back.
Colin is right about light throttle =
Thinking about switching cars to something more practical, yet sporty. The WRX wagon seems to be a good bet. What are the downsides to the WRX? I gather from recent posts that paint quality is an issue? Any others? I know I could scroll through this discussion, but there are almost 2000 posts!! Thanks in advance for any help.
Do the proper things to take care of your paint and your paint will stay looking new for years. Staying further back when following cars, hand wash, wax regularly and stay away from brushes and abrasive car washes. Add a transparent Stongard bra to the front of the car will minimize the paint chips from rocks.
Try to keep the engine above 2000rpm at least, maybe even 2500rpm under load (hills, towing, etc).
For optimal gas mileage, the owner's manual for my Forester recommends shifts that work out to about 3000rpm. That drops revs to about 2000rpm, so that's OK for level ground.
-juice
Also, the little sucker will run like a bat out of hell. Lots of fun.
Like warpdrive, I have seen no more problems with paints or dings than any other car I have owned. I have had mine 6 months and have no perceptable chips, scrathes, and dings. I am careful with all my cars.
mike
Mike
however, as a comparison, my 2000 honda accord coupe which I traded in for the wrx had a hood which was starting to look like a 16 yr old boy's face if you know what I mean.. chips a-plenty, some spots were even starting to rust slightly due to total loss of paint down to the metal from road debris (the trucks on I-95 are merciless!)... also, just looking through some of the honda/acura forums at random, I saw some discussion of weak paint quality even on the newer models...
so.. I guess I'll just throw this out for general consideration: is subaru paint quality necessarily any worse than other major manufacturers?
As far as the other major issues that can potentially deter from getting a wrx, the ABS thing kind of scared me a bit at first, but reading a lot about it (and now a few hundred miles experience too) convinced me that if anything it is something common to all subarus in general, not just specifically the 2002 WRX, and besides I find the brakes to be superior to my accord anyhow. The other thing that people complain a lot about sometimes is the transmission (for the 5MT) but the general consensus there seems to be that if you're not trying to drive like the fast and the furious you shouldn't really have any problems...
(also some people don't like the stock tires, but that's easily correctable ;-)
hys
I don't know whether my '99 2.5RS pulsed all four wheels at once or not-- the WRX definitely does-- but it did not behave like a WRX under bumpy ABS engagement.
I've autocrossed a WRX in a less-than-perfect lot and I felt what many owners are complaining about.
-Colin
A part of my normal detailing regime is to clay the car before I apply my paint protection (Klasse in my case). On the WRX, I did this about a week after I bought the car. The clay got more grit off of the new WRX than any car I have ever known. I assume that is was some sort of contaminant from the trip over. I actually threw that clay bar out after just the WRX application. My theory is that the WRX scatching problem is caused mainly by this crud (like sandpaper) and bad washing techniques.
I would recommend anybody with an WRX to use a clay bar as soon as possible to really clean the car.
The grit on my OB from Indiana was not nearly as bad as the WRX from Japan.
Mike
-juice
As for the whoosh of the air going down the hood scoop, I ask, what whoosh? I haven't been in another WRX. It was love at first sight.
Ken
The driving test was subjective with no db readings. I agree, the car is reasonably quiet. I do notice the quality of the stereo with upgraded speakers and the subwoofer diminishes with speed. Without an equalizer I usually have to back off the bass as the volume is increased to overcome cabin noise. There are times when I consider an expensive speaker upgrade but the sound quality is so good sitting still or with the engine off, I wonder if it's worth the trouble.
John
-mike
http://www.mastrowrx.com/
PS, never trust car reviews with "unacceptable noise" in them. These are 90 year old reviewers who can't see over the steering wheel of their Cadillac.
TWRX
I just finished a 2300 mile, 4-day trip from San Francisco to Chicago in my wagon. A few observations:
I got about 20-21 miles/gallon, but I was loaded down with maybe 500 extra lbs of luggage.
Cruise control won't engage over 90mph.
I raced a 3000GT in the nevada desert. The engine pulls like hell up to 115mph but it pretty much groans from there... acceleration above that is slow.
Terrible wind noise at about 125mph. It just howls.
Got my first paint chip on the hood. Paint is as soft as people say.
Seats are wonderfully comfortable. I did 700 mile days and felt just fine at the end. Cruises nicely and quietly at 85mph for hours on end.
Radio antenna could be better.
Turbo is great at altitude. I cruised through steep grades in the sierras fully loaded no problem.
I went through some of the fiercest rainstorms that I have ever been through both in the Wasatch mountains and in the desert west of elko. I never felt unsafe even on steep grades in the worst weather at highway plus speeds. The subie handled beautifully in the wet.
This car is so easy to merge in. I looked forward to rest areas so I could blast up the on ramp at full acceleration.
Best gas mileage was 25mpg. Bought the gas at a no-name truck stop in Wyoming. They didn't have 91 octane so I got the mid-grade, and got 4mpg better per gallon. Don't know how it happened, can't explain it.
They know steak in Wyoming.
Regarding the 4 MPG, it could have been the thinner air, lower temperatures, lack of AC use (if driving at night), or simply an overall downhill route. Even if there's hills if you're loosing altitude you'll tend to get more MPG.
Could've also been a math problem. ;-) Just teasing.
-Colin
But above that rpm, it opens up and sings a sweet song, tearing the road to shreds.
Also, if you happen to give your mother-in-law a ride, she'd never know what kind of performance it was capable of, even the ride would be tolerable, space decent.
But give a ride to your brother-in-law instead, and you can impress him just as easily.
It's like two cars in one.
-juice
The car howls above 125 MPH? I'll have to take note of that if I EVER get any car I own up to that speed! LOL
And yes, Wyoming folk do know steak. Great post.
Nice report. BTW, are you running the stock tires?
Ken
The noise quickly vanished as I dropped below the above limits.
-scott
the sedan has the ugly ;-) blistered fenders the wagon has the more attractive non-bulging fenders.
thus the wagon runs into tire clearance issues sooner. I'd get 215/45-17 and play it safe.
-Colin
-scott
In 215/45-17 I'd try the Dunlop FM901. I've researched it heavily as it is one of few tires available in the 235/40-17 size I need and not megabucks.
Anyway this tire is new to North America but Australia, Japan and NZ have had it for a while and they like it from what I've read on Aussie and Kiwi messageboards. They don't care for the Kumho 712 much except as a dirt cheap, better-than-nothing summer tire.
You can get the 215/45-17 FM901 for $93/tire plus shipping from www.tirerack.com or $99/tire with free UPS ground shipping from www.discountiredirect.com.
In my case it comes out about $18 cheaper to go with Discount Tire and I'm in no hurry to get them (Tirerack is cheapest on Fedex 3 day interestingly).
-Colin
The Subie wagon is nice coming out of the longer turns, but as a novice I found it hard to corner into the sharper turns, may be due to my lack of experience, I noticed the BMW's doing very well.
The Imprezas were holding their own, but I was impressed with the M3. " What a Car!" I was proud to be driving the only Subie Wagon at the event, I hope to keep going and picking up some driving tips...Any help or thoughts will be appreciated.
Keith.
-mike
-mike
p.s. They did tell me though that they still carry the falkens.
-scott
-mike
the AVS-i was great in its day which was about a decade ago. it's still a good tire, but gets hard with age and looses a lot of rain traction. still, it's dirt cheap and I go through summer tires pretty fast.
-Colin
-mike
with the Sumitomos. He commutes 100+ miles RT per day so he buys new tires every year. He liked the 712's initially but as they wore, dropped off in wet and dry performance. Although his Sumitomos are new he rates them better than the Kumhos. If I had 17" on my WRX I would consider the HTR ZII or the HTR + for an A/S tire for the money . The Dunlop FM901 is cheaper but has a lower treadwear and the traction rating if that matters for your driving style.
I'm also considering a used S4 Avant, or A4 Avant. I had a V70 T5 5spd that was great except the torque steer drove me to sell it! But now I miss that turbo rush and that wagon versatility that my C280 doesn't offer.
Thanks.
Adam
I have a WRX wagon w/the Vishnu Stage 0 putting out about 275 crank HP. I don't presently have any cravings for a STI version consequently. :-)
Stephen
-mike
Stephen