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Best Hot Hatch - SVT, Civic Si, GTI, RSX, Mini, Beetle...
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I believe the Tibby finnished 4th with the Toyota and the Mitsu finnishing tied for 2nd.
I agree with you on the Mitsus. Rented a Galant and totally agree with your assessment!
As far as warranty issues with the mods I've done to my GTI, I researched that as well. I have a mod friendly VW dealer that doesn't reject warranty issues out of hand on modified cars. They have to prove that the modifed part caused the failure. A lot of the after market performance parts I've installed on my GTI have a lifetime warranty which is a lot better than the factory warranty. The VW 1.8t engine is massively over engineered in typical German fashion. It can easily handle the level of performance I'm extracting from it. It is supposedly engineered to handle 300 HP with no internal modifications. I haven't had one problem with my modified GTI in 10k hard miles. I do maintain it really well though.
Gbrozen - I drove the MINI S and thought it was an absolute slug. You have to keep the RPM's up to get anything that approaches performance from it - I'm keeping tabs on the MINI S performance aftermarket, pump that little MINI S up to 220 HP or so and I bet it'd be quite entertaining.
I love really fast little hatchbacks that handle like go-carts more than any other type of performance car.
The nice thing about the GTI is the peak torque comes in under 2K rpms and carries you through to the peak hp up there around 5500. But that's the nice thing about LPTs. You're just spoiled.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The relevant old adage is that "we buy horsepower, but drive torque".
For most people - - and more so for those who go with an automatic transmission - - they don't have the willingness or interest to make the effort to keep the engine RPM's in the sweet spot of its power band when performance is desired. Typically, this means relatively "high" RPM's. Consequently, we defer to a preference for a larger displacement V6 or V8, partly because they typically will have more torque, but mostly because they have broader RPM delivery band of good levels of torque.
Engineering design philosophy and finesse does address this to some degree. One example is an engine cam design that sacrifices peak horsepower to make more torque (ie, make a "less peaky" motor). Another is what VW has done with the turbocharging system in the 1.8t motor: its considered an "undersized" turbo by many, but its design objective is really to increase torque, not horsepower and it does a good job, providing the engine with a healthy amount of torque across a very broad RPM range.
- - -
On steering, most cars today typically have understeer, not oversteer. Understeer is that "plowing" feel when you go into a corner, turn the wheel and not much happens - the car goes straighter than the wheel input would otherwise say it should be. This has been built in on purpose, because understeer is more forgiving of the habits of poor drivers.
In contrast, oversteer is where a small input results in a large turn-in; typically, the back end wants to come around. Its most commonly found today on AWD systems (with appropriate throttle manipulation) and rear-end-heavy RWD systems, such as the classical example, the Porsche 911. FWIW, the rate at which a car's rear end will swing around is partially a function of the Z (vertical) axis Moment of Inertia ...the lower it is, the faster (which is usually considered to be not a good thing for normal driving).
-hh
C&D said the understeer was almost as bad as the Saab 9-3 Viggen (considered to be their #1 understeering car!)
Huntzinger - To emphasise your point, look at the Maxima 99 to 00. The engine displacement was the same, yet HP increased to 32. Interestingly enough, even though the manual 0-60 dropped by over a second, the automatic 0-60 speed was identical between the two years.
The engine on that car you drove was not worked in yet.
Trust me as a Cooper S owner. Once you work it in, you'll notice more pep.
BTW, the car (mine at least) has ample low-end power.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Its probably more of a mental block that keeps people like me from pounding on their cars when they are still "new" rather than an actual reason.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I didn't upgrade the ECU in my GTI until it had 5k miles on it - I even drove it up to APR in Alabama and had them chip it on the spot.
Thanks for the insight on the MINI S, the car I drove had less than 500 miles on it. I need to drive one with some miles on it. My GTI gets faster as it breaks in - I'm approaching 10k miles now - it makes sense the MINI S would be the same.
And remember - no hard braking for the first 200 miles or so! This will give the brakes a chance to seat properly onto the rotors.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Cheap insurance - another reason I like my stealthy little hatchback.
And I know it costs more than insuring a new corolla, because I asked that exact question...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I kept my celica under 3500 rpm for the first 1000 miles - very difficult with this engine! All the cars I have ever had new have lasted to 200K+ miles with the original engine, by doing this.
Sure.
The Mini and S I drove were both very sluggish. Both had over 1000mi, torque was severely lacking in both models. I was expecting more from a 2600lb car with 164hp. Power down low was non-existant while I expected a rush of power near redline-it ended up not being anywhere near a rush.
On a side note, dealers in the Chicagoland area are advertising 2002 Civic Si for $17200! That's less than invoice! For that price, the Si sounds like its well worth the price.
The celica I sold when I bought the new one had 250,000 miles, and I sold it to a mechanic at the dealership who is still driving it daily! And it had the original engine.
So I did not lie, and in fact, to read the boards here, many many people have cars from the 80's that are still going strong at 200K+ miles.
That seemed like a pointless attack...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm looking forward to the Golf V / GTI comming out at the end of 2003. Lots of updates in the next generation Golf - my favorite hatchback. The lease on my 2002 GTI will be up a year after the V comes out - perfect timing. Although the BMW 1 series will be out by then too, with rear wheel drive. Maybe the Audi A3 will be here by then as well. Us hot hatch fans are going to have a lot of choices.
(Probably just dated myself terribly there!!) :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
RSX and Mini seem to be roaring successes, so I am sure they will succeed, and the A3 will go head to head with the 1-series, which should be an awesome little race, if you can believe the press. And GTI should be one HOT hatch after the gen V rebirth. Tiburon...who knows? I don't know how sales have been compared to what Hyundai was hoping for, but since it is an image car for them, I imagine it will stay too.
(Of course, being a celica fan, I hope it does not get dropped in the hatch chaos, and since it is a 25-year model line for Toyota, one of its longest, I have some hope it will stay)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I personally like it, especially for $17500!
Here are a few tidbits on the upcomming Golf V
Wheelbase is 3.5" longer without much change in overall length
multilink rear suspension
Foam filled doors for better side crash protection.
Air bags for head, side, and drivers feet (!) plus the front of course
Active head restraints
200 HP 16 valve 2.0 liter turbo four - replaces the 180 HP 20 valve 1.8 turbo
240 HP 3.2 liter VR6
All wheel drive (4motion) option - this is available on the current Golf in Europe, now comming here
Plus a more powerful diesel and the ususal 115 HP 2.0 four cyl.
Six speed manual transmissions are standard with most engines
When is the Golf V comming out? I was hoping these models would have come out this year. Oh well.
A 2004 Golf V GTI with 4Motion and 2.0 liter turbo modified to 300 or so HP should do the trick. My 02 GTI 1.8t has around 240 HP which is the max I'll go with front wheel drive. These little guys really need 4motion when you start tweaking the HP. Mine drives and handles great, it takes some skill to get traction from a stop when you get on it. My GTI will easily spin the tires all through first gear with the traction control off if I'm not careful.
If there is a $1000 difference between the 4 and the 6, which car would you take?
I assume you would take the 4-Turbo since you do like to upgrade cars, and Turbos are very easily upgradeable. Especially since the Turbo on the VW is set at a low compression level.
The 4-motion system steals enough power that it would clearly need an engine with more torque. I'd consider it next time if the mark-up is really only $1,600. Personally, I'm more interested in snow performance and my VW with Nokians is already much better in most snow conditions than my eco-disaster SUV.
Also 2005 Ford capri. Based on focus platform with a boosted Duratec V6 300hp and AWD.
Volvo V40 3 door I5 turboe based on next gen Focus platform, 300 hp AWD due fall 2003
Mazda4 MPS 250hp Turbo 2.3 I4 AWD. based on Next Gen Focus platform due in 2004.
A 4motion GTI would be an awesome car in the snow belt.
I'll look at both the 4cyl turbo and 3.2 VR6 Golf V's. A couple of my friends have supercharged their VR6 Jetta's - increadable performance. Supercharging the 3.2 may be the way to go over installing a larger turbo in the 4cyl turbo to get to or surpass 300 HP in the 4motion Golf V.
I would be interested in anyone's impressions.
Basically, they are the same car except for interior and exterior styling and a few features.
If they would make the regular (non-4motion) GTI a rear-driver, I would become a VW convert. With the V-6 for me...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I bet you're looking forward to the BMW 1-series hatch then, huh? Or you could always save up for a used Z3 hatch (I haven't heard anything about a hatch Z4...anyone?).
Mike
I just did and that car is in a class all of its own. I kinda came to that conclusion almost immediately when the salesman took the hairpin 90 degree turn at 60-65 and accelerating. At first I though I was dead and I was holding on for dear life from the "g" forces which in any other car, we would be in the ditch from. Not even a squeal from the wheels And, this was a test drive and I hadn't gotten to get my drive yet. Crazy car salesperson. And, then I looked over to the salesman, and he had a smile on his face from ear to ear and he just said, "Yeh, I got one of these too". That's what a car should do, make you smile from ear to ear.
You gotta drive this car to believe it. I use to have an MR-2 with a supercharger and TRD racing enhancement kit and I remember beating everthing off the line except for a motorcycle and a turbo porsche...couldn't touch them. But, I roasted so many covettes, mustangs, RSX, and all the rest of them. The MR-2 was also an excellent ride but the mini I just drove blew that away. I was doing 80 on the highway and there was no reason to get into 6th gear....but I put it in to see the tachometer go to a mere 2K-2.5K revs.
Anyway, what I'm saying is "Drive this car first before you SAY anything"...,BUT please wait until after I get more order in...cause waiting a whole year is long enough
I just did and that car is in a class all of its own. I kinda came to that conclusion almost immediately when the salesman took the hairpin 90 degree turn at 60-65 and accelerating. At first I though I was dead and I was holding on for dear life from the "g" forces which in any other car, we would be in the ditch from. Not even a squeal from the wheels And, this was a test drive and I hadn't gotten to get my drive yet. Crazy car salesperson. And, then I looked over to the salesman, and he had a smile on his face from ear to ear and he just said, "Yeh, I got one of these too". That's what a car should do, make you smile from ear to ear.
You gotta drive this car to believe it. I use to have an MR-2 with a supercharger and TRD racing enhancement kit and I remember beating everthing off the line except for a motorcycle and a turbo porsche...couldn't touch them. But, I roasted so many covettes, mustangs, RSX, and all the rest of them. The MR-2 was also an excellent ride but the mini I just drove blew that away. I was doing 80 on the highway and there was no reason to get into 6th gear....but I put it in to see the tachometer go to a mere 2K-2.5K revs.
Anyway, what I'm saying is "Drive this car first before you SAY anything"...,BUT please wait until after I get more order in...cause waiting a whole year is long enough