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Essentially what I am saying is that there is a placebo effect when it comes to car evaluation. We have a tendancy to find what we previously believed about something. Its why Ford choose an advertising slogan like "Quality is Job 1", tell enough people that often enough and some of them will believe it enough to buy a Ford car.
And you missed an important point in a previous post of mine. No matter the problem or the size of the problem, I would be equally disappointed if it was with a Hyundai, Kia, Daewoo, Toyota, Honda, Ford, etc.
The point is that our observations are always subjective and will tend to reinforce what we have heard from others unless substantial evidence is found to the contrary no matter how much we may strive to be open-minded. This is part of being human and that is why in science, efforts are always taken to remove observer bias whenever possible (again medicine is a good example; in a clinical trial for a drug, neither the patients participating nor the doctors administering the drugs know whether the drugs they are receiving/dispensing are real or a placebo).
To make my point simple; yes I know you believe you are objective, yes I know you would view any perceived fault as an equal strike against any vehicle; my point is that without controls it is essentially impossible for humans to be objective and that that loss of objectivity will essentially make it impossible for you to perceive faults equally.
I think you sell people (especially me) short.
Again, I am not stating that Korean Cars have caught up with Honda and Toyota, but they might be much closer than many here want to admit.
I said what I said last night mostly because I was bored, but here is some detail for why I said what I said.
"Ford's suck" Well, not ALL fords suck, but some older ones do. I have alot of friends who have had alot of horror stories with their fords and it makes me not want to buy one.
"Buy a Honda" Well, I own one now, and I have to be partial to them! And, I've always heard great things about Hondas.
And about the "ding dong" thing...If you dont understand what I'm talking about, then never mind--I just know that it has always bugged me hearing that dang repetitious noise that alot of cars make. Alot of cars continuously make noises like that, but I found Hyundai's to be the most annoying.
For those who don't like the "ding dong" when the key is in the ignition and the door is open... closing the door or taking the key out of the ignition will solve that little problem.
Just like the Fords that chime incessantly when the driver's seat belt is unbuckled (also very annoying), there is a simple solution: buckle the seatbelt.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I swear I am not making this up. I asked a salesman about this during the auto show and heavier steel was his explanation.
I find it odd that the Optima costs more than the Sonata as well (especially considering that the Sonata is IMHO a more attractive car), particularly since the strategy is suppose to be that Hyundai moves more upmarket while Kia remains the bottem feeder. Perhaps it is because the XG350 sits over the Sonata forcing Hyundai to keep the Sonota's price lower.
I still shudder when I think of the conversation I had with one salesman about the Echo. It had been out for sometime, but it became very obvious that I knew the product better than he.
To add insult to injury, I told him what I was looking for and he claimed to have it in the back lot.
After walking back there, we discovered that the color was right, but nothing else was. The car was automatic and I wanted manual. The car was two doors and I wanted four doors.
I did not try to talk her out of her decision. In fact, I agreed with it. Wholeheartedly.
When all was said and done, she bought a Daewoo. The biggest factor was the great deal she got on it. She and I both consider it new, but they did not and gave her a great deal over the same model that they considered new. And the price she paid when compared to other comparable makes and models was just unbelievable. This really is a great time to buy.
The paper work took awhile to complete and the hour is late and I am tired so I am going to end this.
I will give more complete details sometime tomorrow.
lleroi-I like the red Cinco wagon, too. Kia's done it again. At least I didn't start that sentence with Oopps! Then follow it with I did it again.
coolguy-I'm just so thrilled that there's at least 3 car makers that are putting some serious design thought into their carmaking. Not just body design but I gotta tell ya, car body design is really pitty now and it's been pretty bad since the 60's. Oh ,here and there a good car body will be born, but ususally the manufacturer won't follow through and continue to design well. Toyota's Celica has changed? Is that what you're saying, coolguy? Provide us with a link to a pic if you have one. Or do you mean you like the Celica style of a few years ago?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I will post more later, but I want to check some of the other message boards I read before heading out for the day.
I have to go to the bank and then my roommate needs to go to the license bureau.
I want to point out that some might not consider 9:28pm too late, but whenever you see the time given for my posts, ADD two hours. I actually posted at 11:28pm last night.
Talk to you later.
Something caught our eye and we decided to stop and take a look around.
When someone came and asked us if we needed help, we told him that we were just looking. I was very impressed that he did not push and told us he would be happy to help us when we needed it. He then went to help other people.
We looked at all the different models when we noticed two of the same kind that seemed exactly alike, but there was a substantial difference in price between the two.
I found the guy who offered to help and asked him what explained the difference in price. I was dumbfounded that what I considered such a minor difference would cause such a major difference in price.
I thanked him and went to talk to my roommate. She could not believe the explanation either so she asked me to find the guy and ask him to check and make sure nothing else was different or wrong.
He checked with his manager and the manager confirmed that there was only that minor difference.
My roommate and I went and took a closer look. Everything seemed all right, but tests were in order so we put it through its paces and made sure everything worked and it performed like we hoped.
It did so and my roommate and I huddled together for a quick conference.
Like I said, the one we looked at was substantially cheaper than an identical one. But also, it was about half (yes, half) the price than comparable models from other manufacturers.
In the end, the deal was too good to pass up and so my roommate went home with a Daewoo.
I have to go now, but later on I will talk about the first few days with this new Daewoo.
Low End Cars: American vs. Japanese vs. Korean
Note I've put the countries in alphabetical order.
What do you think?
For $69 it was too good of a deal to pass up.
Honestly, it will take more than a good deal on the price to get my roommate to buy a car and I am the same way.
Low-End Cars, TVs, Microwaves, Ships, and Other Products < $15,000: American vs. Japanese vs. Korean.
That way we can talk about purchases of non-car products manufactured by automakers without going off-topic. ;-)
For example, I bought a Daewoo microwave oven for my mom last Christmas and she likes it very much--user-friendly control layout, good fit and finish, and a solid "thunk" when she closes the door. The turntable turns straight and true, no shimmy. The styling is a little boring for a Korean model, but hey, it didn't cost much.
Anyone seen the new Honda self propelled lawn mower and how about the Saab Viggen(?)jet fighter?Did they have any deals on Mitsuibishi big screen tvs? .
Coolguy-Toyota would have to build the interior to END ALL INTERIORS to take my mind off of that homely, stricken body outside on their Echo!!!!!!!! What'cha wanna say to dat?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Thanks for the laughs I got from reading your responses, both when I said she got a Daewoo and these later responses when I revealed she bought a Daewoo TV.
Iluv, speaking of Eneth, he is over on a thread called Wake Up Call. I believe it is in the News And Views section.
And remember that you are the one who used the word evil when it comes to Korean cars. That is something I have never called them and don't think they are evil.
FYI, so far the TV has been really good. Nice step up from the 13" TV that we were watching previously. One bad thing was that we had to give up the VCR since the 13" TV and VCR were one unit, but we have cable so it is not like we don't have movies to watch.
Even if the TV quits in a year, it will be worth it since she only paid $69.
-Larry
-I Luv
Most people do not consider your opinions noteworthy. If you play the same song everytime you post, people will just tune you out.
-Larry
That's right, it is. At least it's supposed to be. Lately there's been more posts about TVs than cars. Anybody just tuning in (sorry, poor choice of expression) would probably double-check his or her URL to make sure it's Edmunds.com and not BestBuy.com or the like. I thought there was a suggestion recently to post a link from this board on all the related boards to get some new participants. Before we do that, we might want to start talking more about cars.
Let's do try to talk about some cars for a while, now, okay?
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
"I'm a little surprised that the brand new 2002 Toyota Camry was outpointed (at least in C&D) by the old Honda Accord. (A new Accord is coming next fall.) But the fact that four American cars brought up the rear, and were even outscored by a Hyundai, is embarrassing." -Forbes Magazine on the outcome of a midsize sedan comparison.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Low-End Cars < $15,000: American vs. Japanese vs. Korean.
I second. Shall we call the question--all in favor, say Aye, all opposed, say Nay.
Aye.
Guess what car I rented over my Thanksgiving vacation? Here's a couple of hints, the weekly rate was $105.00 in Florida. I used InterAmerican Rental Co. It was a verrry small car.
-Larry
-Larry