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Comments
As for me, Hyundai-Kia can hire all the PR guys they want and send me all kinds of press release everyday telling me how they're gonna rule the world in the future and I wont give a damn.
There is a lot of information from those auction reports regarding dealers and owner experiences that is missing. Anybody else smell a stinky rat regarding those "auction" reports?
spectraman is indeed accurate regarding the folly of disrespecting Hyundai and Kia. Robert Lutz of GM noted that the automakers he feared the most were the South Korean ones. It was a smart move by GM to swallow up Daewoo a few years back and the move has already started paying for itself. The success of the Aveo and the inroads into the Asian market for GM are two indcators of that.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
~alpha
The Aerio is one of the most underrated cars ever, in my opinion. I had one as a rental back in '03 in Orlando and I fell in love with that funky looking Tonka toy. I even test drove one last year when they updated the interior and got rid of the digital dash. Impressive, solid little car with great handling and more power than most competitors.
The only think the Forenza has over the Aerio is exterior appearance and price. The interior on the Aerio and definitely the drivetrain is far superior. Then again, one is built by Suzuki in Japan and the other by GM/Daewoo. Go figure!
I drove the Aerio when it first came out and thought it was pretty decent--and it didn't have 155 hp then. The interior is much improved now. But bottom line for me was that I could by something else (Elantra) for much less money, with more equipment, better fuel economy, and a more comfortable ride--and a longer warranty.
For the $16k or so it would take to get into a well equipped one, there are a lot of alternatives out there. For $14k I might think seriously about it.
The warranty is still pretty good at 36/36 b2b and 7/100 powertrain. The Aerio is the only Suzuki I'd trust since it's the only one engineered and assembled in Japan.
We can always hope the new Suzuki Swift will make it here.
Accent 4-door sedan (new design)
Accent 3-door hatchback (new design)
Aveo
Fit
Rio (new design)
Rio5 (new design)
Versa (new design)
xA
xB
Yaris sedan (replacement for ECHO, new design)
Yaris hatchback (3-door in U.S., 3 and 5-door in Canada)
Another thing that has changed is the availability in these low-end cars of safety and convenience features that were a short time ago common only in luxury cars. Features like ABS, side airbags and curtains, electronic stability control, 6-speaker high-power sound systems, 8-way adjustable driver's seats, 16" alloy wheels, power heated mirrors, and folding rear center armrests are standard on some of these low-end cars.
There was an review in my local paper today of the 2006 Rio5; it was from Dan Neil of the Los Angeles Times. The article went beyond the normal nuts-and-bolts review to ask some philosophical questions. For example:
Perhaps the larger point is that these [low-end] cars suggest a subtle change in U.S. car culture, which has taken as an article of faith that we should consume as much as we can afford. What if, like Europeans, we were to buy less car than we could afford? Would that be so bad?
His answer to his own question was, "Not really, and the Kia is proof." He went on to give a positive review on the Rio5. In it, he imagined himself in an alternate reality, in which he was living in a flat on the outskirts of Prague, working at the National Museum, wearing a long scarf and overcoat and living with a sloe-eyed and surrendering Czech girl. Oh, and he'd smoke--a lot. And drive a Rio5 SX.
I can understand where he is coming from (not the smoking part, and my wife wouldn't like the part about the surrendering Czech girl). I believe in buying less car than I can afford--the smallest, least-expensive car that meets my needs. Well, not quite the least expensive. I do like the fun of buying new cars and I haven't had much luck with used cars, so I tend to buy new. So I think it's great that we have or will soon have so many fine choices for low-end cars, and I won't have to sacrifice safety or convenience to buy something small and inexpensive. And students, single working people, small families, retirees, and others on a budget will also have those choices.
2006 is going to be a great year for low-end cars!
There was a time when I'd devote 35-40% of my income to a car payment. I was a dumb 20-year old in those days who thought nice wheels were the key to happiness.
As a 30-year old, I love the idea of getting a comfortable, fun-to-drive, reliable vehicle for a few hundred dollars less per month than I could theoretically afford. I'm a single guy and intend to stay that way, why the heck should I pay $400 per month for an Accord or similar when I could buy a Rio, Accent or even Honda Fit for around $200 per month. I'd also save some gas in the tradeoff.
I think these cars will enjoy tremendous success in the U.S. I think their high fuel economy numbers will appeal far beyond their low sticker prices!
The 4-door looks like someone took a Camry and boiled it. Only they started with one of those goofy Camrys that has the rear spoiler/ground effects but still has the small standard wheels. Not very attractive in my opinion. The Corolla S suffers from the same problem, IMO. That little Liftback (reminds me of the old Celica) is a cutie, though.
Note to Toyota- center mounted gauges are stupid. The scream cheap.
Now, Im not necessarily a fan of center mounted gauges, but I dont think they are by default cheap.
~alpha
~alpha
Highway, with automatic: 36 vs. 39 (8% difference)
City, with automatic: 28 vs. 34 (21%)
Automatic, overall (est.): 32 vs. 36.5 (14%)
City, with stick: 32 vs. 34 (6%)
Stick, overall (est.): 33.5 vs. 37 (10%)
So if someone drives the stick, or the automatic mainly on the highway, it's a 6-10% difference per EPA ratings. I don't think that's a huge difference, do you? The worst case for the Accent is in the city with an automatic, and next the stick on the highway. Personally, I would tend to get the Yaris with the stick (based on Edmunds' review where they really praised the stick), and I drive mostly in the city, so I see a slight difference in fuel economy there.
But of course, everyones driving style and conditions are different. And, its probably a good idea to look at engine performance and refinement as well.
Here are the comments from Edmunds.com on the Yaris 1.5L tested with the 5M and 4A:
"We sampled both powertrains, and found the manual gave the Yaris a peppy, sporty feel. The engine stays smooth and vibration-free, even at high rpm. We took the engine to redline again and again and never felt like we were thrashing the car. Both the gearshift and clutch action are light and the gearshift knob doesn't vibrate, whether at idle or while running at 75 mph on the freeway.
As expected, the automatic sapped some of the fun, as off-the-line performance is blunted. But like the manual, it has decent midrange pull and has no problem getting up to and cruising at 75-80 mph on the highway."
Here are the comments from the same source, on the Accent/Rio's 1.6L, as tested in the Rio5 4A:
"We flat-foot it getting onto the freeway and there's a swell of noise and vibration but not a lot of push from the seat. The leisurely feel of its acceleration is later confirmed by an 11.5-second 0-to-60 run at the test track which is nearly a second slower than its Chevy and Scion competitors.
Shifts from the automatic are reasonably quick and an on/off button for the overdrive gear makes it easy to drop to 3rd for climbing long grades. We make use of it often and find ourselves maneuvering through traffic with ease. There's no ignoring the engine noise at full throttle, but when the transmission drops into top gear on the flat sections the cabin gets surprisingly quiet with little road or wind noise. "
Given the Edmunds.com's hatred of the underachieving ECHO, Im surprised they were this positive about the Yaris. Cant wait to see a sedan comparo of the Yaris, Accent, Rio, Fit, and Versa.... preferrably in Car and Driver, and of models with 5M.
~alpha
The Rio LX automatic I tested seemed more than peppy enough around town, even though I didn't push it, and while it was raucous when revved, it was very smooth and quiet on the highway, and shifts were smooth and almost unnoticeable. On the Yaris, I would tend to go with the stick. With the Rio or Accent, I might lean to the automatic (depends on how the stick drives) for more quiet operation and the ten years of warranty coverage (not as valuable on a stick, since clutch wear is not covered).
P.S. I agree that 21% is not slight--but IMO 6-10% is.
In that case the 21% increase in fuel economy would make a difference, as you've indicated? And we're back to the difference NOT being slight.
~alpha
I dont really think the Yaris will come in under the Accent. My gut feeling is that a similar Yaris will be about $800 to $1000 more. Still, given this extremely positive review, the Yaris may just be worth it, say $15.5K for an LE 5M sedan plus alloys, ABS, convenience pkg, side curtains. Cruise would be nice too, though Im not sure if its offered.
What really compels me about the Yaris is, again, based on this one review- the interior quality, the "dare they say fun" handling, and the powertrain- a smooth 1.5L that will happily rev all day long and feel peppy to boot.... are really big deals, IMO. Plus, to my eyes, its the best looking small sedan I've seen (of the Rio, Accent, Versa, Aveo- I consider the 3, Civic, Elantra etc... compacts)
Backy, whats goin on man? Are we the only ones enthused by this segment? Wheres everyone else?
~alpha
The Edmunds review said the Yaris offers cruise, which is another plus over the Rio and Accent.
I expect the nicely-equipped Yaris will be quite a bit more than an Accent or Rio. The Accent with ABS, six airbags, power package, 60/40 rear seat, alloys, and A/C is $14,500 USD. The Edmunds review said the Yaris would start at about $13,000--which is like the Accent. But at that price, the Accent comes with ABS and 6 airbags, which are optional on the Accent. OTOH, I think I read that A/C is standard on the Yaris. So adding power package (a requirement in a 4-door for me), ABS, and bags will put it up near $15k I think. One nice thing is it looks like you can add alloys separately on the Yaris (but not on the Accent), so that will help keep the price down. I would pay $1000+ more for a Yaris than an Accent easily, if the ride and comfort is at least as good. But I suspect rebates and discounts on the Accent will make the difference more like $2-3000.
I'll probably looking in 6-8 months, so the timing is very nice.
I sincerely hope for Hyundai that the company doesnt have to offer $1000 rebates so early on...
~alpha
I'm here and I'm interested in this segment, too. I really can't wait to see and drive the Fit and Versa. I was considering a car in this class, but I totalled mine a few weeks ago and had to go ahead and buy. I went with the Mazda3. But I still enjoy talking about cars, particularly the lower end of the range.
Enjoy your 3!
~alpha
Kia has added the seat-mounted side airbags and side curtain airbags for added safety and the pricing is fair IMO at at $14,190.
This thread should pick up as the next few months roll on as these little cars are released.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I own one and I have been Very Happy with the car. It gets 28 mpg with a 2.3 litre engine and automatic, so it has plenty of zip on the freeway and up hills with the A/C running. It comes standard Loaded and it costs Only about $15,000. It comes standard with ABS, side air bags, 6 CD changer and subwoofer, fog lights, mag wheels and of course automatic temperature controlled A/C, the only thing missing is headlights that turn on and off Automatically. It is a small nimble car, but not tiny. It is actually bigger than a Ford Focus. You sit High in the car so it is Easy to see over the other cars. It comes with a 7 year 100,000 mile warranty and it is built in Japan with alot of parts in common with Toyota's, but it Doesn't cost as much as one.
So now, nearly 18 years later, this is what I have to choose from?
Accent 4-door sedan (new design): nope
Accent 3-door hatchback (new design): nope
Aveo: nope, not by a long shot, worse than my previous
Fit: there's hope, but at this point it looks to be irrational
Rio (new design): nope
Rio5 (new design): nope
Versa (new design): probably not, if the combined estimate is 38
xA: nope, really disappointing in fact, for such a small car with such a small engine
xB: definitely not
Yaris sedan (replacement for ECHO, new design): nope
Yaris hatchback (3-door in U.S., 3 and 5-door in Canada): nope.
This is progress?
I'm running out of enthusiasm and it looks like I might have to wait for the next generation. Hybrids are for the wealthy and I am anything but.
Color me disappointed. I don't care about power. I don't even care that much about safety.
I like the looks of the Getz, which we do not get. I also like the Polo and the Lupo, and a number of other Euro and Asian cars which we don't get.
I know they will come eventually, but it looks like it will be another long wait for me.
If they bundle it with mandatory power seats and door locks, cruise, moonroof, nav, and other similar nonsense that I have no use for, it will be considerably less compelling.
I agree the Aerio SX is kind of different looking, but the Aveo and Yaris are kind of different looking also. I think only the Fit and Accent are kind of typical looking.
Since the smaller engines don't seem to get much better gas mileage. I rather trade a little mpg fro more zip.
The power is also impressive, especially in the 5-speed. It's a great little car that only a handful of people know exists. A slightly used one is a killer deal, too. I found an '05 SX wagon here in Atlanta for $12,100. I'm not much of a fan of the wagon, though.
Just thought I'd add my two cents. Suzuki is to blame more than anyone/anything else because they've not supported this car with advertising from its introduction. Must be higher profit margins on their Korean built models?
Good to see that Hyundai has included it as part of the package on Elantra. Cars the size of Elantra and Spectra really need it to be competitive with other cars in their class, at least in my opinion. Perhaps cruise isn't as important to some as others.
I am not sure why Kia for the Spectra doesn't have a package for the Spectra. Everything is ala carte.
Has anyone ever seen a Spectra with ABS. I have never seen one in southern CA.