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Mercedes-Benz M-class vs Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer vs Buick Rendezvous vs Acura MDX
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Below is an image of the two profiles combined. You decide whether the shapes are similar indeed, or it's just my subjective perception.
Regards,
Taras
p.s. hopeitsfirday, thank you for your info.
www.geocities.com/makogon/profiles.jpg
MDX is shown on designer drawing with 20-inch wheels.
Regards,
Taras
1) copy images
www.buick.com/images/rendezvous/header_compare.jpg
www.acura.com/images/mdx/mdx_specs_index_schematic.gif
2) rotate and make the MDX image transparent with Microsoft® Photo Editor (part of MS® Office 2000)
3) paste both images into MS® Word to scale by length and superimpose the two.
I don't know the color of the Rendezvous - this is on http://www.buick.com/rendezvous/compare/
Regards,
Taras
But they can get pricier than the models listed for this topic.
Looks-wise interior/exterior I preferred the Explorer. Looks muscular and inside is very well appointed and well built. The V8 and 5 spd are excellent as well.
For price and safety as well as overall driveability, I think the Explorer is best.
In June 2002, Brent Romans (one of the editors) compared it back to back with an ML500 and found the Explorer (in XLT trim) to be superior in just about EVERY category. Stating: "It's not very often that one can drive a Ford and a Mercedes and come away thinking that the Ford is a better choice."
High praise indeed.
But again, my gas mileage is better with the MDX.
How does one justify spending $40,000 for the Acura when you can get an Odyssey for $29,000?
That 4 wheel system costs them a grand and they get the additional $ 4K ON TOP of what they already were making on a car. So enjoy all that "4 wheeling" you do, LOL.
The oil companies thank you too.
I am assuming you drive a sub-compact that has drum brakes, Am radio only and no power windows. Maybe when you finally get that big raise, you can afford a rear window defroster.
If you didn't piss your money away at happy hour each week, you could go out and buy 2 overpriced SUVs .... I don't care. Even better, trade them in each year !
I agree, to each their own, you can go out and lease whatever you want Mr Gotrocks, and thus back to my orginal point, the car manufacturers and dealers thank you !
BTW, as provocative as you are, I'm sure the others would rather read posts about "Mercedes-Benz M-class vs Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer vs Buick Rendezvous vs Acura MDX".
I too would like to stay with the topic of this room. Since this is a SUV room and you seem to have something against SUV. May I suggest you find a nice economy car room where you can talk to people who has the same interest as you.
Have a good day.
tidester, host
Is fake wood trim and 0-60 under 9 seconds worth $14,000?
Rebutals:
1. I like the two-tone styling interiorly and exteriorly. IMHO the leather was more supple and seating more comfortable in the Buick than the Acura (search many posts about MDX uncomfortable seats).
2. The MPG on the Rendezvous simply wouldn't be better than the MDX if one was constantly throttling it to keep up with the traffic. Yes, the engine isn't the MDX (I wish it were!), but its more than capable to do its job plus tow it's capacity without added coolers like the MDX.
3. Pricing: Again confirming the philosophy of American vs. Import pricing. American dealers tend to work near Invoice pricing. Imports (unless major excess inventory), work MSRP. eg: the only American car with significant Residual Value is: Saturn. Why? Because it sells at MSRP, thus no discounting already built into the artificial pricing.
Your research on Cost again didn't compare apples:apples. MDX base does not equal CXL. Sorry, look at the features lists to the two for accuracy. MDX Touring is needs to be factored, not base. Furthermore, the Cost to Own doesn't factor in financing (which is 0% right now). This added another $6,000 in difference. Totalling about the $14,000 mark that fedlawman had just mentioned, not $4000.
4. Interior: this is where I believe the Rendezvous excelled more than the MDX. Honda/Acura has long been known to be pretty vanilla in design. The MDX is no exception. She won't disappoint, but won't go extra either.
e.g: center console. I LOVE the Rendezvous' center console. The cellular with hidden cig lighter keeps things tidy without cords dangling all over the place. The lower storage hides the wife's purse from smash-and-grabbers view. The center storage can fit a full sized laptop in it plus 6 jewelcase CDs and 4 tapes.
e.g.: 3rd row: more spacious than the MDX. I'm only 5'6", and the MDX was quite tight. No more than 30 min max probably. Plus, the MDX would have to remove and put on the headrests when levelling the 3rd row (nuisance!)
e.g.: single side enterance to 3rd row in MDX. I don't know why they did that one.
The MDX is no doubt a good machine. Everyone uses it as a measuring stick. The problem is that even with a $100,000 income (that's top 10% of the population mind you), as fedlawman pointed out, a $40,000 car needs a lot of justification to spend on it.
Can one say that at $29,000, the Rendezvous ISN'T worth it's cost...even to us $100K+ income families? I liked the MDX better than the Rendezvous. I just couldn't justify a $10K+ difference on it. Thought that I'd go get that 51" plasma with the 10K instead
When one adds up the annual cost of a mortgage, 401K, IRA's, college funds, car insurance, and living expenses, one can find that $100K (after taxes) is barely enough to make ends meet.
I think we all choose to allocate our assets where we see fit, and what we spend on a car is more a reflection of our life priorities rather than our wealth (real or imagined).
Enjoy your MDX, it's a nice car.
The MDX is exactly what Edmunds and C+D say about Honda/Acura. Vanilla ice cream. But then again, Vanilla is always the best seller! Flashy is the Murano (a bit over the top, not to mention). The MDX was built for the American elite and delivers on it...for a hefty price.
I didn't give Buick a thought initially, until I searched under my criteria for a seven seater. Then looked at it closely and these boards and others, and finally a true test drive. After driving all the other 7 seaters, price comparison, and true costs factored in, the RDV beat #2: MDX...because of the value for the product....oh yeah, NEVER take these two truly off-roading, you'll be sorry!
topcut, laughable it isn't. Both the Rendezvous and Explorer (though a truck, but 7 seater albeit), are capable competitors and better valued than the lofty MDX.
Acura is near-luxury like the Volvo, not Luxury where Lexus, MB and BMW, Lincoln exist traditionally. Though the MDX is a fine machine, the safety features and refinement isn't on par with the Luxury brands. eg: see recent comparison by Edmunds: Near Luxury Crossover: MDX.
Buick, economy brand? Now you're just being biased against American cars again.
The point for this thread: what's the most desirable 7 seater for the buck? Clearly it emcompasses a wide range: Truck based Ford all the way to MB (though most would agree that MB kind of cheaped itself on the ML).
So the debate continues, which is the best vehicle for the job and for the price???
When comparing to other luxury brand you mentioned. The Lexus RX300 did not handle as well as the MDX and did not accelerate as well, luxury wise, just a bit better, not much. The Volvo XC90, nice seats, but has reliability issue and the 2.5T was under power and T6 was too expensive. The BMW X5, handles nice but too small and too expensive. Finally the ML, about the same price as the MDX but has major design and reliability issues Mercedes have not yet worked out. The MDX also has a better safety rating than all the above mention luxury brand, except for Volvo. The MDX's engine is also more refined than all the SUV above, except for the BMW.
Buick is a economy brand of GM, remember Cadillac is GM's luxury brand. I am not bias against American cars at all. Just traded in my 97 Jeep grand cherokee limited. Not a bad car if you can put up with all the little things that goes wrong with it. when I was shopping for a new car, I also consider seriously about the GMC envoy and the 03 jeep cherokee. Both nice cars, but after about a year of research on each of its performance, reliability, quality and resale value. The MDX came out on top.
I have a 99 430ML now going for 4 years, I did not know I had major design and reliability problems, never let me down once and handles better than the competition.
Main reason I bought it was to tow my jet skies or my fishing boat, a 23 FTr on tandem axles, 5200lbs total weight, 160 miles each way. In the summer here in the Gulf Coast it gets very hot, no problems with all that load plus the SUV is packed and the A/C at full blast, I go to some secluded and difficult boat landings, the low range allows me to pull with absolute ease. The traction control allows me to drive on snow with no problems in fact is exceptional.
The ML has won the Dakar Paris twice in the unmodified class, meaning as is from the show room, and numerous other long rallies, Baja being one of them. The engine has won numerous design awards including the most prestigious one.
Under the skin hides a real tough truck on a heavy frame and suspension with a big mule of a transmission, in Europe because of different laws the same ML is rated at 7500lbs towing capacity.
Is better to have and not need than need and not have, that is why I bought the ML, for its ability to work in confort, I could have settled on any truck, cheaper or more expensive.
A picture I took at the MBZ plant in Alabama.
http://www.funtigo.com/go/i167754?i=i167754_41973.jpg
Just look inside of a Rendezvous and compare it to the MDX and that is the anwser to your question. I admit, compare to Leuxs and Mercedes, the MDX is more toward the engineering side than the luxury side. But it a great mix of both world in my option.
I think we're up to three now, aren't we?
1. What exactly distinguishes the MDX as a "luxury" SUV?
2. What "records" are indicative of Buick's poor history of quality and reliability?
3. What import car can you purchase for $500 over invoice?
How about it...can you enlighten me?
Both Volvo and Acura are near luxury, not truly along the lines of Lexus or MB. The service the those two brands are nothing like Acura or even Volvo's service personal. From the car to the dealer experience, MB/Lexus/Lincoln are steps beyond Acura's and Volvo's offerings...thus NEAR luxury. It's more than just the car itself that the luxury brands sell.
Then there's the car. We've hashed the engine enough, even the engine lover yourself was reluctantly surprised that a "lowly" 185HP machine can perform well, albeit not the MDX engine. One can debate all day whether one needs the extra ponies vs. the right engine for the car....thus those monster truck rallies, eh?
Where's the interior superior quality that the MDX offers over the Rendezvous? Rendezvous advantage: more comfortable and stylish seats, more cargo space, more 3rd row seating, more convenience measures, more intelligently designed center console and storage. MDX advantage: fake wood accents, some 20 cup holders, subwoofer.
montreid: All those advantage you claim the Rendezvous has over the MDX such as more comfortable and stylish seats, more cargo space, more convenience measures, more intelligently designed center console and storage are just personnal option. Yes the MDX has fake plastic wood but it is better than the cheap gray plastic the Rendezvous has on its dash. The whole interior of the Rendezvous needs a serious re-design in my option. Well maybe not the seats, but when comparing to the MDX's seat. The Rendezvous seems cheap. I find the Envoy to be a much better SUV than the Rendezvous and so does many auto magazines, When comparing midsize luxury SUV, GM's Envoy is almost in the competition but not the Rendezvous. Actually, I think the Volvo XC90 has the best seats in this class and to say Volvo and MDX is near luxury is just incorrect, besides there is not a category for near luxury. I also mentioned in a past posting that, during a test drive, the Rendezvous had to labor to keep up traffic, too little engine for a SUV this size. Any SUV in this weight class needs at least 220HP or so in my option just to keep up to traffic. The MDX's interior luxury is mostly from the front seat and the Nav. system. The front seats are among the best in its class, except for the Volvo. The MDX's front seats reminds of the Recardo seats I once had, very sporty and comfortable in long trips. Lastly, is plastic wood accent that much worst than real wood. Plastic needs less maintenance, last longer and less expansion factor in the heat. I look at some SUV with real wood trims, didnt really notice the difference until the dealer mention it. Not a big deal at all in my option, Beside there are after market wood trim kits one can buy if you are really into that stuff.
Have a Merry Christmas
"The RDV is a nice economically minivan, not really in the same class as the MDX."
"The Buick Rendezvous is almost in the same class as the subaru forrester, basically a car thats jack up higher. Not in the true spirit of a SUV or even a crossover."
"The Rendezvous is not in the same class as the MDX. The MDX is classify as a luxury SUV and the Rendezvous is more like a economy SUV."
Hello...McFly?
I have yet been convinced from your opinions vs the facts that you've shown to support a $14,000 difference. Once the MDX pricing comes down (and it is thanks to increasing competition over the past year), and the incentives disappear, the differential will shrink.
Frustration isn't in fed's words. It's your own words that show your inconsistancy in statements and facts.
So, where are your facts to support the $14,000 differential?
Almost all cars are Point A to Point B cars. I would debate that the MDX also falls into that particular category. I wouldn't see many MDX off-roading (nor do I wish to see them there to wave down people for help). Honda already forward thought for this year, fine tuning the car to meet the competition. Despite that, it's sales have dropped becaue: 1. new competition over past year; 2. more capacity in MDX line (see previous posts about Honda/Acura philosophy on limiting production on new introductions); 3. Pilot is sucking out the more $ minded people.
Nice to think the MDX as a Rolex, but really, it's more not a Bentley here! I love your exagerations on the MDX
SUVs driving prior: MDX (obviously), XC90 at testing site (very impressive), Envoy, Trailblazer (same car), Explorer and Mountaineer, XC70, Pilot, RX300, Pathfinder, and brother-in-law's Jeep Grand Cherokee. I didn't like the MB ever since it's intro in '99, so didn't go there. I'm sure it rides well enough, but never really appealled to me.
The real issue, as always with people below the $300,000 income level with 2 kids and no Trust Fund behind them, is: $$$$.
The Rendezvous presented a entry-level car at a price that couldn't be ignored. After much driving and debate, we selected the Rendezvous to be our family car (why else get a 7 seater?) because of the features and the Price. Now if this was next year when the MDX is $2000 off MRSP and the RDV is without incentives ($4000 all said), that would give me more thinking about the MDX being only $6-8K more.
Happy Holidays everyone! Going to open those presents with the little one now.....
You said, "The Lexus RX300 did not handle as well as the MDX"
Wrong. The Edmunds.com "2002 Luxury Crossover Comparison Test" lists the RX300 as being faster than the MDX through the 600' slalom. In fact, the MDX was the slowest vehicle in the test. It also has the longest stopping distance from 60 MPH. Of course as a "true car enthusiast" and "former BMW owner", you probably don't care much about cornering or braking performance...it's got 260 HP!
You said, "The MDX also has a better safety rating than all the above mention luxury brand, except for Volvo"
Incorrect. The BMW X5 outperformed the MDX on both the NHTSA and IIHS crash tests.
You said, "The MDX's engine is also more refined than all the SUV above, except for the BMW."
Not according to the above mentioned comparison test. The MDX "power delivery is not as refined, nor is it as quiet, as the engines in the Lexus or the BMW." No surprise here, since Edmunds.com "editor's characterized the 3.5-liter V6 as offering "ample power" accompanied by an "unrefined groan."
I'll add the above "facts" to your account. Let's check your balance:
"Rendezvous...not in the true spirit of a SUV or even a crossover."
"MDX has more space just about everywhere."
"MDX has security system, power seats, heated seats, low emission engine" (implies RDV doesn't).
"The cost difference is around $3000."
"Buick has a history of poor quality and relieabilty."
RDV is "not a car for the true car enthusiast."
"they cannot sell these RDV at a expected pace and ended up with overstock."
"One can also buy foreign cars, even Acura and Volvo, at $500 above invoice."
"That 1.5 sec of drag racing as you call it can actually save your life."
"I am a former owner of 2 BMW, so I know my European cars better than you."
"the four wheel drive system alone in most cars are about 4 to 5 thousand extra."
"If you have to worry about asset depreciation, then you really cant afford a car in this class."
"the Rendezvous is not in the same class as the MDX."
3 new "facts" brings your total up to 16! Did I miss any?
All I'm saying is that the RDV competes with the MDX on a level field. The MDX is better in some areas and the RDV is better in others.
Both are "near-luxury" SUV's that compete in the same class, and offer great performance, versatility, style, and comfort.
As for the RDV not being for enthusiasts...the RDV is arguably more fun to drive and sportier than the MDX. It is clear that the MDX is quicker, but the RDV rides quieter, corners better, and stops better. Only a "true car enthusiast" can decide what defines sporty.
As for the Rolex analogy...the MDX is a Seiko at best.
It just won't make your co-workers jealous...
fedlawman: I test drove both the RX300 and the MDX. The RX300 plainly did not handle as well. Its ride was softer and steering had no road feel. RX300 offers more of a luxury ride, but at the price of increase body roll. Still dont know why you keep bringing up the 02 MDX. The 03 has improve handling and braking. According to the NHTSA site, the BMW have not been crash test since it was introduced, so no data available there. If you think the MDX's engine is noisy, you obviously have not been inside a MDX. I must admit the Lexus is quieter., but can the human ear detect between 1 dB and 1.1 dB. By the way, those dB numbers are not real, just using it for an example. So please dont add it to your so call list. The MDX engine is definitely quieter than the X5's, there is really no question about that. BMW tune their engine with that sporty note, which I also like as well. Acura have been involve in auto racing for about 20 years and then some. Toyota has just recently gotten involve in auto racing. The Honda engine is by far more refined in the area of performance than the Toyota's. The Honda engine is without a question, one of the world's best. It virtually performs a miracle considering the amount of power it puts out for its engine size, the amount of emission it puts out, the amount of fuel it uses and the smoothness of it while doing all the above mention. If you really look long and hard, you can find a article about the MDX that is negative and the same goes for the Rendezvous.
Have a nice Christmas guys
I don't think it's comparable to even a Seiko, though.
The engine runs loud. In the odyssey, the pilot and the MDX. That's another reason why they added additional insulation to the front in the '03 because people were complaining that a 40K car shouldn't be sounding like a 20-30K car. I still believe that it's quite noisy in the mid-range RPMs despite the insulation.
'03 handling improved? Haven't noted any, but I maybe incorrect on this. When I last looked two months ago, they didn't have numbers on the slalom or braking (which the braking system didn't change in '03).
I would never suggest that you buy something you don't like, eg myself with the MB. What does surprise is that you've had not only written off the Rendezvous, but disparaged it without even looking into it (ever) and driving it (until recently because we called you on it).
Opinions of everyone's tastes is valid, as well as spending their precious excess capital. But don't go putting down something just because you want your own machine to look and feel better.
The MDX is expensive for what it delivers. The price was inflated by the lack of production by Acura, and worsened by the lack of any significant competition until recently. This price is already changing as you stated: ~$1000 off MRSP and falling. Heck, I hate the Volvo dealers now they have the "hot" car. They've never been that way before.....not THAT's Frustration.