Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
As long as they continue the drive by wire this is going to occur.
when I bought my 03 HL I was told that It would adjust to my driving habits (WRONG) What happened was I had to adjust my driving habits to fit the weird accerlation that it has.
I have learned to never push the accelerator pedal down to fast because the computer can't read the change fast enough..........
In the opinion of actual owners is the hesitation more pronounced when turning and accelerating vs just accelerating?
If this truly is a FWD programming safety "feature" I would expect you would have a greater amount of acceleration delay, hesitation, pulling away from a standing stop and turning at the same time.
Do you sense that full acceleration returns once a minimum forward speed is reached, and/or once you begin to return the stearing to neutral as you exit an accelerating turn?
Is the public catching on to Toyota's business philosophy of telling their customers to live with this safety problem? Toyota's August sales were down 2.8% overall (2004 vs 2003), but HIGHLANDER was down 6 times as much (17.3%, nearly 4000 units).
How many of you with the problem are satisfied with their response, and will you buy another Toyota?
experience encountered with Toyota and the dealer. The general rule is "pass the buck" it's easier than doing the right thing. That should be Toyota's motto. We're on our way to arbitration. Will also file a complaint with the state (check your lemon law) Anything that makes Toyota take responsibility for this is worth a try.
Arbitration Letter:
California Dispute Settlement Program
P.O. Box 561109
Dallas, TX 75356-1109
Dear Sir or Madam:
This letter is to delineate the problem that significantly reduces the use, value and safety of our 2004 V6 AWD Toyota Highlander (VIN# XXXXXXXXXXX). The vehicle consistently demonstrates a significant lull when the gas pedal is pushed and when the vehicle responds. On several occasions, the delay in acceleration was substantial enough in that it felt as if the vehicle had stalled. We currently own (original owner) a 1995 V6 Toyota Camry and previously owned a 1997 V6 Toyota 4Runner. We have never experienced this type of problem with any of our Toyota vehicles.
· Use – The consistent hesitation makes it challenging to accelerate to the flow of traffic when merging or changing lanes. Although the Toyota Highlander is a V6, the performance is less than one would expect from a four cylinder.
· Value – Toyota has acknowledged, in writing, the delayed acceleration and the fact there is no repair at this time. Since work orders confirm the defect, a potential buyer would either not buy the vehicle or purchase it at a below the current market value.
· Safety – The significant hesitation has, on several occasions, dangerously prevented the vehicle to properly merge into traffic. This has lead to nearly being rear-ended. Because of the safety issue, we have changed our driving habits in order to compensate for the vehicle’s lack of performance.
On August 4, 2004, I test drove the vehicle with the Service Advisor, [NAME], at [DEALERSHIP], CA. During our test drive, I (the driver) pointed out how the vehicle generally hesitates. In addition I showed how the vehicle feels as if it had stalled when slowing then accelerating. He confirmed this on the attached work order/invoice #XXXXX. Please note that Mr. [NAME] did not test drive the vehicle himself. Furthermore, on the same day, the Toyota Customer Relations Manager, [NAME], test-drove our vehicle. During the test drive, she also concurred that there was a delay in accelerations. This was especially noted when she merged into traffic. Her co-worker, [NAME], was also in the vehicle at the time.
On August 10, 2004 I test-drove the vehicle with the Toyota District Service & Parts Manager, [NAME]. Prior to our test drive, he was already aware of the delay. I drove the vehicle and pointed out the consistent delay in acceleration. He agreed that there was a delay and that Toyota was aware of the problem, however, they do not have a way of repairing it. Mr. [NAME] declined to test-drive our vehicle because he was confident that the problem existed. Please see attached work order/invoice #XXXX that confirms the hesitation from the factory representative.
Sincerely,
POST# 1590
Hello!
Although I have enjoyed our Highlander for eight months, the delayed acceleration or hesitation has become unbearable. Search the board and you will find others who experience the same problem. I finally took it in to the dealership to see what they can do. I was surprised when they acknowledged that there is a hesitation! However, it is a design issue since other Highlanders do it. Below is what is delineated on my work order.
Concern: Customer states vehicle hesitates on acceleration check and advise.
Cause: Verified concern with customer
Correction: Delay response verified with customer road test. Compared with STK ##### compared the same.
Since there is no way to repair the vehicle, service department gives my Toyotas phone number to start the arbitration process. This took me to a meeting with the district service and parts manager from Toyota. I thought he was very nice and professional. He acknowledges that this problem exists with the Highlander and Solara. Toyota engineers are at the beginning stages of finding a way to rectify the issue. However, he did not know how far along in the process they are in finding a solution. Below is his write up on the work order from him:
Concern: Customer states vehicle has hesitation or delayed acceleration while driving.
Cause: 0
Correction: Had factory rep inspect – see notes
Tech Notes: Test drove vehicle with customer; there is a hesitation while accelerating. Advised that Toyota is aware of complaint. Advised that dealership will complete an MDT report including their feeling.
They will not acknowledge that it is a design defect or a safety issue. Therefore, any manufacture buy back will have to be ordered through arbitration. Today, I applied for arbitration.
I try not to be too materialistic and dwell over things that really have no meaning to my life. However, when you pay over $30k for a vehicle and you have no recourse, it can be upsetting. Anyway, I thought I would post this to help others who may need the info.
POST# 1594
Below is some important information I left out from my original post:
My HL is a 2004 V6 AWD with approx. 9k miles on it. The factory rep said it applies to those vehicles with “fly” or “fly wire” acceleration. I cannot recall the exact verbiage he said (I will need to know for arbitration).
Test: Drive 30/40 miles an hour and imagine a large truck pulling in front of you. You slow down quickly to about 10-15 miles an hour. While slowing down you look over your shoulder to see it the lane is clear to go around the truck. You have a nice gap to accelerate into in the next lane and you “punch” the gas to shoot the gap. I will always get a very significant delay while doing it. Please note that you do not need to floor it. Another test is just imaging merging onto traffic.
On several occasions I thought my vehicle would stall. I can create the delay at anytime, however, the severity of it is hard to create. I feel it is a very serious safety issue. I have seen the delay the near two second mark.
Hope this helps.
It's a very simple process.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
I took my 04 V6 HL to the service dept today and they will acknowledge the "operability" of this trans and that other people have complained about it - but according to him, only a small percentage. Then I drove one of his new limiteds and it manifested the exact same symptoms. This customer board clearly confirms that this is indeed a safety design issue. Apparently, the dealers have not been given a fix for this problem (although they won't call it that).
He also said the 4Runner has the same "fly by wire" design. My wife bought an 04 4Runner last year and it shifts fine (obviously different drivetrain but same control methodology).
So, I got the appropriate doc from the service dept. indicating it "performs as designed" and next step will be to bring my safety concerns to Toyota and open a case with them.
The service mgr also said this drive train config is in the Camry and Lexus RX300. But, (according to him) not many people (as a percentage of the total) are voicing their concerns.
Toyota is big business. They will try to not expend resources on this problem until they become convinced of the safety issues. They will not be convinced until enough customers speak up! I hope people don't have to start reporting accidents to get their attention. It would be interesting to know if HL/Camry/RX300 accidents can already be attributed to this issue. I wonder how this could be investigated?
Finally, in reference to an earlier post if I wanted to drive a manual transmission, I would have bought one. At least I would know what to expect. The behavior of this config is not always predictable or safe.
In my experience, it had a more pronounced downshift/hesitation in passing situations than my Highlander does.
I got used to building the hesitation time into my passing maneuvers.
It seems like this issue isn't limited to Toyota products, and may simply become a fact of driving.
So file a complaint if you are experiencing the hesitation problem with the '04 Highlander here;
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
Click on "secure submissions" and fill out the simple form. When you get towards the end of filling out the form, you'll be asked the component. Click/highlight "POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION." Some have posted under "VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL" so file where you want. There are (7) complaints under PT: Auto Trans and (2) under VSC:Accel Pedal at present posting.
Thanks!
If you check around on the various posts you will note that the hesitation complaints seem to only apply to FWD vehicles or FWD torque biased AWD vehicles, Camry, HL, Sienna, RX, etc.
Likely a new feature of the FWD firmware version of the VSC/Trac system.
Hope you have more success. Please let us know the outcome.
If it is the new VSC/Trac firmware then the AWD would be less likely to exhibit the symtoms.
Remember, with FWD and just Trac if the front wheels begin to slip the immediate result must be to apply the BRAKES and then dethrottle the engine. Enough of that, lots of jackrabbit starts, and the rotors will warp and/or the pads will wear out prematurely.
The manufacturers may very well be using new VSC firmware to predict impending wheelspin and dethrottle or delay, moderate, acceleration torque.
There is no question in my mind that the VSC/trac system on my 01 AWD RX is shifting the transmission to reduce the effects of engine drag during stopping or slowing.
Reducing or moderating the level of acceleration torque available during certain maneuvers is just another step in the direction of reducing the hazards of a FWD vehicle IMMHO.
Find a large and empty parking lot. While stopped turn the steering wheel about halfway to full left or right and then go WOT.
If yours is FWD and the problem is as I suspect then you will notice a definitive lack of startup torque.
:-)
The vehicle has been fine until this morning when I stopped for coffee on my way to work. The driver's side door was dead. None of the controls were operating (no power for automatic windows or lock). The other doors were working fine. When I returned to the car the seat belt sign was blinking and beeping even though I was buckled into the seat.
Has anyone ever experienced these problems or know how the dealership handled the problem? Is this covered by the warranty?
Today was the first cooler day and I did a little experiment - i ask some of you to do the same to see if my car is typical. Also your ideas if this situation is "correct".
I took a dial thermometer - $6 at a hardware store and
measured the outside air temp while driving in my neighborhood. Then I measured the air temp coming out the center dash duct. This is with recirc off (that means outside air is flowing through) and the A/C off, temp control on full cold. .
Air coming out the dash was about 7-8 degrees warmer than the outside air.
Is your car like that? You can't tell 7-8 degrees with your hand but a thermometer you can and on a hot summer day it hurts AC performance.
I would also like to be able to complain directly to Toyota about this....if just to let them know that this is a real issue that should be addressed (if they want me to ever buy another Toyota, for example.) Who should I contact?
Besides filing a complaint with the NHTSA and the dealer where I purchased the vehicle, I filed a complaint with Toyota.
Contact Toyota Customer Relations at 1-800-331-4331.
I agree, some are experiencing this problem, some are not. It all boils down to driving habits. I myself am not an aggressive driver by any means but when the need arises to get into traffic or pass another vehicle, I expect the vehicle to perform without any flaws.
If people will do the test stated by wwest, I'm sure we will see that the problem is more prevalent.
I just hope that no one gets hurt before Toyota decides to correct this major problem!
Thanks!
Assume you've got the automatic. Just curious, do you know the date your HL was manufactured? And did you buy it in the US?
Here's another test for the problem: It is always very evident after decelerating from say 40 to 20 then accelerating hard (similar to a left turn with traffic coming, or a quick lane change behind stopped traffic). When you hit the accelerator, our V6 2wd literally dies for a few seconds before downshifting and subsequently surging forward in the lower gear.
If your AC is not operating satisfactorily on hot days I have heard that some folks have installed manual shutoff valves to prevent this effect.
Wonder if my 94 Camryhad one. My Honda civics had them.
maybe it is another Toyota cost cutter. More and more of those all the time. My 04 factory floor mats are real thin compared to the 94 mats
I have not read all the posts
The problem that really gets me is the rolling stop acceleration hard shift. Say you are coming towards a red light with nobody at the light in front of you. You get down to 10 mph or so and just a dozen feet from the line. Then, the light turns green and you press the accelerator to go. It hesitates slightly and then, BAM, takes off like a rocket. When I am not paying attention, it will bark the tires.
I am a long-time Toyota guy. I hate to complain about this, but it is out of hand. I have kept it out of paperwork so far, but I don't know how much longer I can live with it.
If you happen to depress the gas pedal at just the "wrong" moment, just as it starts to shift into "neutral" the Tranny gets confused.
I suspect it is also an effort by Toyota and Lexus to eleminate some of the loss of control events due to engine braking at the front on slippery surfaces.
So file a complaint if you are experiencing the hesitation problem with the '04 Highlander here;
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
Click on "secure submissions" and fill out the simple form. When you get towards the end of filling out the form, you'll be asked the component. Click/highlight "POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION." Some have posted under "VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL" so file where you want. There are (8) complaints under PT: Auto Trans and (2) under VSC:Accel Pedal at present posting.
Thanks!
If you stand next to the say drivers side front tire, and face the car, and run your hand across the top of the tire going from front of the car toward the rear of the car you feel sharp edges on the front edges of the tire segments in the outside tread section. If you run your hand the other way, across the top of the tire from rear going toward the front you do not feel anything.
whats causing this?
I see it/feel it on a lot of other cars/suvs.
is it :
a normal
b excessive front toe in?
c something else?
Just like the oil sludge problem, Toyota is taking advantage of their customers.
They need to get some corporate integrity and do the right thing instead of pinching those dollars and converting them to yen back in JAPAN.
I'd rotate the tires, fill to 3-5psi above the rating (cold) and have the alignment checked.
Here's a description of common tire wear problems.
Excessive Toe;
Excessive toe-in/positive toe results in outside edge wear of the tire. Excessive toe-out/negative toe results in inside edge wear of the tire. Toe is easily adjusted on most vehicle steer axles.
Excessive Camber;
Excessive positive camber: smooth wear patterns on the outer half of the tire tread. Excessive negative camber: smooth wear patterns on the inner half of the tire tread.
Excessive Caster; Caster is the angle of steering axis tilt when viewed from the side and while it does not affect wear, it does affect the vehicle's handling and tendency to track straight down the road.
I do not think this is a penny pinching issue. I have access to some biG tiMe transmission experts (no names, please) and they seem to think it might be a software or accelerometer problem. That is not a difficult or expensive fix. It would be to Toyota's advantage to fix it if they knew how. I think they might not know what the problem is.
My problem is a rattle in the dash and/or steering column. I had this fixed once about a year ago by replacing the steering box and it's hardware. Now a rattle in the dash caused the dealer to call Toyota and they reported many complaints of a dash rattle that's cured by replacing the nozzle assembly under the cowl.
They are going to do it next week and I'll let you know if it works.
fvp what is that????????????
For those who are not experiencing these safety and reliability problems, it's puzzling. Maybe Toyota's got different revisions of SW out there and some tranmissions actually work. Count yourself lucky.
Today I opened a case with Toyota. They'll have the regional guy call me next. I indicated:
-safety issue: hesitation in trans when accelerating
-safety issue: downshifting abruptness releases into stopped traffic
-reliability issue: the combination of the above in normal driving conditions causes trans to "shudder" at times.
I will absolutely file a complaint with the nhtsa as recommended. Thanks for persisting in this. I'm just wondering if I should go through the Toyota chain first or not.
Interestingly, I read a number of posts by the same individual who goes to lengths to "explain" or "justify" this transmission's operation as not unusual, or some kind of continuing effort to implement VSC safety features .... safety features???? Makes you wonder.
We are now looking for a used car for my son. I'm sure I don't want him behind the wheel of this car, especially as a newer driver. We drove a number of Taurus', Sebrings and Stratus', Malibus and Impalas'. NONE of them drive crude and unsafe as does my new 2004 Highlander.
If you're considering a Toyota - DON'T DO IT - they are starting to push crap out the door.
As far as following the Toyota chain, by all means. Thats the way to do it.
As the saying goes, "take it to the top."
I'm convinced that Toyota WILL have to do something about this. They (Toyota) has too much at stake by just letting this very serious issue slip by...and the consumer won't let that happen.
BTW, Taurus is a good auto as is Honda if you are looking for a vehicle for a first time driver.
Good luck!
My receipt says: Part number: 55950-48020 nozzle assy. defr. They had to order it with delivery on Tuesday.
I don't think that's the answer, but my dealer claims that Toyota has had many complaints regarding this part and that's where they plan on starting. I have not read many reports on this board about dash and/or steering column rattles so perhaps it's isolated to my unit. It took 4 days to find a bad steering box that caused a rattle last year.
Sounds like a long shot but who knows?