Acura Integra GSR Customizing and Modifying

chem123 · November 2001

Hmmm...that doesn't seem to make sense. The things that are allowed would give much greater benefit than the hp gained from tuning with a VAFC. What are the main things allowed in each class?

only1harry · November 2001

well I was referring to the 6K RPM roar where you REALLY hear the VTEC. I do hear it around 4600rpm too but only after I put the AEM CAI on and it's not as loud as the 6K one..
I thought there were 2 stages to our VTEC madness. One is supposed to be at 4400 (our tacks are off by at least 200rpm) and then at 6K, correct? I was thinking of lowering the x-over on the 2nd one if you can do that. I don't know much about VAFCs. I have seen dyno plots of ITRs whith 5100-5400 x-over poitns. I assumed they were talking about the 2nd phase. Why would they want to raise the x-over too? It would seem they had lowered it from the 2nd phase 6K one. The ITR's VTEC kicks in pretty much around the same RPMs as GSR. Anyway, lowering it to 4K sounds much better to me

It really sucks that I can't use a VAFC in DSP. Even cross-drilled rotors are not allowed in SP but are in ST! Go figure! I can use a roll cage, strip my car, change my throttle body, intake manifold, etc. (where you can't do any of these in ST) but can't have x-drilled rotors that make a miniscule difference compared to those other mods! It makes you wonder how they come up with these rules.

only1harry · November 2001

The season is over. Around here anyway.
I just had one last auto-x Saturday. It was with the NASA NorthEast club (fairly large National club, probably 2nd to SCCA) at Giants Stadium in NJ. All morning runs were done in the rain (drizzle) and on a cold track with puddles here & there. I wiped out a couple of times and couldn't get good traction with the Kumhos. In the afternoon it dried up and the sun came out. Dropped my times by over 2 sec and managed to come in the top 10 overall (probably 8th or 9th out of 75 cars) Didn't come first in my class though because their classes (only 6 or 7!) are messed up. I was up against some very formiddable opponents. 2 modified Miatas and a modified MR2 in the E class whose drivers are all PROs (they run in the SCCA Pro class) and divisional champs. Needless to say those cars were like go-karts and one of those Miatas had FTD with the other Miata 2nd FTD (there's something really wrong with the classes when a car in E class is faster than A,B,C & D!). Although they were 15-20 cars in my class, they only give out trophies for the top 3 and I came in 4th. Nevertheless it was a lot of fun and we got 8 runs because we started early enough. The course included 2 slaloms (which I 'm good at) and it was a fairly large one (49-55). The last time I was there I also came in 8th overall.
Oh the steel belts really started showing on my Kumhos too early in the day on the outside, almost on the sidewall, but they held up just enough to let me finish with some decent times.
So even though I went home empty handed, I was happy with the results because being in the top 10 is always very satisfying and 8 runs are always better than 5 that I get with SCCA clubs due to the huge # of drivers.
I think I 've decided to go with an LSD, probably Quaife, next year. I have to prep the car so it can be competitive in the divisionals.. 18 trophies this season doesn't necessarily qualify me for the divisionals. I know the car needs a lot of improvement so I think it 'll be fun modding it over the winter. Since I can't race till next April I 'll need something to keep me busy on the weekends

cjhannan · November 2001

True, the VTEC x-over on GS-R's is set at 4400rpm. The other thing we hear at around 5800-6k rpm (and which sounds so incredibly sweet with an AEM CAI) is the secondary runners on the intake manifold opening up. That's where we hear that beautiful, rich intake sound. Apparently, there's some kind of butterfly valve that opens to allow more air in the system when we are the high rpm range on the hot cam. Come to think of it, I've never heard any discussion about whether or not you can change the rpm setting at which the secondaries open up. And I'm not sure if a VAFC can do that, or if you need some sort of re-chipped ECU. That's something I'll need to research some more...

only1harry · November 2001

which header do you have? Is it the JDM Type-R header? Is it SS or ceramic? How much did you pay for it? $400 sounds pretty good if it's stainless steel. If I were to replace the header next year, it would have to be one that improves low end power, without hurting the top end of course. I forgot to mention that I met this guy at the last auto-x with a '98+ GSR (not sure what year). He got his car dynoed before & after a DCsports 4-1 SS header, and said he got an extra 2.5whp peak torque & 4 max. in the mid range and 2ft-lbs of torque mostly from mid range on up. The ground clearance looked pretty good too.. What's funny is that I went to the DCsprots web page and they advertise 10-12hp gains with their headers! I hate companies that do that. That 's just illegal, probably nearing fraud.. Although they use an engine dyno and not one that measures power to the wheels, it's still way too much than what it really is.
Anyway, if the JDM header is about the same price of a DCSports header then I might as well get the OEM header. The JDM quality is probably better than DCsports. In most group buys the DC 4-1 SS header is 20% off list which is $360.. Does the Type-R JDM header fit a GSR or do you have a GSR JDM header?

chem123 · November 2001

As far as the VTEC crossover, I looked up VAFC on honda-tech.com and found some really golden info on where to set the cross over, why to set it high, why to set it low, etc. They pretty much all agreed on a range of about 5000 rpm to about 6000 rpm but you really must tune with your personal setup. You will probably find success in the 5400 rpm to 5700 rpm range as most setups seemed to agree on a cross over in this range so maybe you can just kinda "tune" it yourself (the VAFC allows you to change xover in 200rpm increments so it shouldn't take you long).

The JDM ITR header is a great header for the money but you will need to get 2.5" collector for the end of the collector and then a cat converter that has a 2.5" inlet and outlet and then an exhaust that also follows suit.

As far as your rear disc converion recommendation (you said it wasn't worth it because it was heavier), I agreed with you. Then this other guy started telling me that rear discs are lighter than the drums and that a rear disc conversion would be his number one modification before autoxing. What's the truth?

Oh yeah, could either of you guys give me a simple, general outline of the SCCA classes going from G stock up to whatever so I can have an idea of what class I will run with in the spring and what mods I can do over the winter within my class of choice. Thanks guys!!!

cjhannan · November 2001

Yes, I have the JDM 4-1 header made for the Type R. Actually, I'm not sure if one is available for the GSR, too. But it doesn't matter because the one made for the Type R bolts up perfectly to the U.S. GSR head. It's made out of some sort of forged steel (not SS) so I did some research on various protective coatings and decided on sending it to a company called Jet Hot. I opted for Jet Hot 2000 (vs. the 1300) coating in a flat black finish. I has a semi-rough anodized look and feel to it, and it looks great on the car b/c it matches the anodized black on the GSR valve cover. Jet Hot provides a life time guarantee against chipping, peeling, flaking, etc. and they also provided a bunch of literature about how their coating lowers temperatures in the engine compartment by preventing it from radiating away from the header. Lower engine temps = better performance (you know, all that stuff). I'm not so sure about all their performance claims, but was very interested in how it would protect the header from rust, etc. The header itself ran me about $450 and the Jet Hot process cost about $180 which includes the shipping back to me. The quality of the JDM header is top notch -- it's a beatifully made piece. Funny you mention your concern about loss of low end power b/c I was concerned about the same thing. And while I'll know much more after the dyno session this weekend, my "seat of the pants" driving impression is that my car feels a bit stronger and more responsive in the low-end range. Ground clearance is no problem with the JDM header either. As Chem mentioned, you'll need a 2.5 collector to bolt on to the back end of the header, and I accomplished that by upgrading to the Carsound hi-flo cat. And then I kept the exhaust from the cat back at 2.5" piping. That's why I choose the SMSP SS exhaust. I figured there's no harm in helping the car breathe real well. I'm hoping to do my first track day some time next spring and so I expect to see some benefit by having this setup on the wide open track! Basically, I've got a very expensive exhaust system and I'm real pleased with how everything works. The dyno will certainly tell me if it was all worth it, and it will also tell me where I might be able to do some tuning to eek out a few more ponies...

only1harry · November 2001

thanks guys. I knew I wasn't crazy when I was reading posts a while back (haven't been on H-T or H/A in a while, don't have the time..) that the x-over points were in the 5's. I think maybe it does set the point where the secondary runners open up..
I had a feeling a new cat w/2.5' cat would be needed with the JDM header. How about a Random cat? I hear a lot of guys (mainly ITR guys) at the auto-x events putting down the Carsound. I don't know why. Maybe it's cheaper?
So Casey, what is the original color of the header?

Paying $180 to have it coated is totally out of the question for me because I don't plan on keeping the car for more than another 2 yrs. $180 could also translate into re-valving 2 Koni shocks (Koni charges $90/shock) :-) I met a guy with an '95 GSR that had his Koni Yellows revalved. He was in STS and I was surprised how well he did with street tires. He also had GC 400lb coilovers.
Anyway, I think I 'll splurge and get an LSD first because I think that's the mod that will help the most in auto-x.
I 'm looking forward to hearing about the dyno session!
Chem: Go to www.scca.org and read about soloII. They give some info on the classes and stuff. There's just too much to talk about. Find out what class your car is in. It should be in HS (H Stock) where you 're only allowed like a cat-back exhaust and shocks pretty much. If you change the suspension or add a sway bar, etc. you will be in a Street Prepared class and I think it's FSP or DSP. I think your car might be more competitive in HS but if it is in FSP modified, that shouldn't be too bad. I 've had g6 EX & Si's in my class DSP, so I don't think you 'll be in DSP. The problem is I think the SCCA web page wants you to buy the rule book for $30 so you may not find all the info you need there.
Check out this web page I found about a year ago. They have PDF file in there that gives you at least the stock car classifications. I believe it's on the home page. www.autocross.com
They also give you tips on how to setup your car and info about the evolution auto-x school.

only1harry · November 2001

I almost forgot.. I believe I had said that the AEM or Brembo big brake upgrade would be heavier. I know that rotors are usually lighter than drums but if you look at your Civic's drums they 're pretty tine and in this case I doubt they 're lighter than discs anyway. My wife's Nissan Altima has some pretty big drums in the rear, about twice the size of the Civic's. Anyway, it might make a little difference in auto-x by giving better stopping power but if you look at all the CSP Civic Si's they all have drum brakes in the rear and they rule in that class. I 'm pretty sure upgrading drums to rotors puts you to higher class, SM (street modified) where all the turbos and hybrid Civics are (with B18C1&5 motors!). Even upgrading the calipers puts you in SM and out of Street Prepared. So if you really want to auto-x, you better think about all these things, or just do whatever you want to the car and go have fun in however high your class is. There 's a slight problem with that though. If you start taking auto-x seriously and want to start winning some races you might start spending thousands of $$ to make your car competitive. If for example you change your brakes and now you 're in SM, there's a whole bunch of stuff you can do in that class so you mind end up literally spending thousands to improve your times. The biggest mod you can do in that class is an engine swap to a GSR or ITR one. So think carefully before making these mods because it can be an addictive and expensive sport if you let it.
Unfortunately the Civic DX is not powerful enough to compete in pretty much any class with its motor, stock or not. What I would do is try and prep the car for a Street Prepared class or STS (Street Touring with street tires). I believe g5 & g6 DX/LX Civics are in FSP with the 8V Golfs/GTIs, Escorts, etc. (16V GTIs & Sciroccos are my food in DSP) but to be competitive in an SP class you have to have R tires. If you don't want to spend the extra $400 for them, go to STS.
Get some serious coilovers and at least Koni Yellows or better shocks because you lack horsepower so you want to make it up in handling. You want to go with the max in everything if you want to be competitive. I 'd get like 400-500lb GC coilovers or some Teins if you can afford them, Koni Yellows, 21-22mm sway bar, front & rear lower tie bars, front & rear upper tie bars, the brake rotors & pads we talked about, and some 15x7" wheels with at least 205-50 tires. The wider the better if they fit. I had 205-50-15's on my Civic and they fit fine (on heavy Borbet 18lb Type-F 15x7" wheels, just sold them actually for $200). Then I 'd get a header and a good catback exhaust at least 2.5" in diameter or bigger. AEM CAI should be a must too, anything to make it go a little faster. Not sure if STS allows you take off the back seat but I would do that too to lighten the car up. The trick here is to make this car handle as good as possible because you seriously lack power. And if you find that STS has too much competition, which it will (GSRs, Celicas, Preludes, Subarus, etc.), get some R tires and go to FSP with R tires up and you 'll be up against similar HP cars like Golfs & Escorts. If I 'm wrong and your car is in DSP or CSP, then forget about SP. Maybe CJ can take a look in his rule book and find out exactly what SP class your car would be in.
Of course this is better said than done. There 's daily driving to be considered, etc. etc. (might want to make that 300-350lb coilovers). Financial questions like is it worth to spend $2-3K on a DX like in all those parts I mentioned? It might be fine on a $15k Integra, but what about on a $7K Civic? You never get back what you put in it..
My best advise is to go try it out next spring before you spend a lot of money on the car. You may not like it, or may think it's too much abuse on the car as some people do.. or you might like it so much that you may decide you need more to get a better car, and go out and buy a '99 Si or something. You never know until you try it..

chem123 · November 2001

Harry, thanks for the time you put into those posts. Okay, what did I want to say?...Oh yeah, go Carsound because it flows better than the Random Tech. one or any other (that's why everyone gets it

). Here is the cheapest price: http://www.exhaustproslinc.com/carunconwita.html. Not bad at all...I found all the info I needed about the classes in SCCA. I will be in the Street Prepared class because my springs and CAI take me out of G stock...but I start in the amateur class anyway, right? The info about the CSP Sis not having rear discs is incorrect, I'm afraid...even the old Si hatch had disc brakes.

Okay guys, here are my two big dilemmas:

1) Selling my wheels: right know I have 16x7.5 Kosei K1s with 205/45/16 Kumhos with less than 1000 miles and am looking at 15x6.5 gunmetal Rota Slipstreams (don't worry, I'm not going JDM crazy) with 205/50 Kumhos (that's what I would probably get). I think I can sell the Koseis and the tires and get the Rotas w/ tires without losing any money (probably making money).

Kosei: nice width (7.5"), cool looking, sorta heavy, hard to clean, durable, already have them, better handling

Slipstream: less width (6.5"), cool looking, less than 12 lbs, easy to clean (or not to ), have to buy them, better acceleration, good durability

What would you guys go with? I am leaning towards the Slipstreams for the look and the weight. Here is a pic of them: http://www.groupbuycenter.com/buy.asp?row_id=4000

2) What to do with my money beyond the ITR 22mm rear sway and brake upgrade #1 (Brembo, AXXIS, SS lines, Super Blue fluid) and Sparco Speed seats (already ordered)?

I am thinking Autopower 4 point roll bar and then maybe some harnesses. What would you guys do?

When I think about it, it sounds like I screwed up with buying the Tokico Illumina Suspension Kit. But then I think, wow, I got pretty nice adjustability, pretty stiff spring rates (looking it up as we speak), and a decent price. I hope it will be decent enough for autox as I don't think I am going to be hardcore against everyone else--mainly racing against myself rather than racing for trophies. Would really like to here you thoughts on the wheel situation and future plans. Thanks guys.

only1harry · November 2001

But I have seen tons of Si's with drums in the rear!! I 'm talking about CRX Si. They definitely have drums.
First of all, your car if it were stock is not in G Stock. It's in H stock. Only the Si's are in G stock. Which SP class is your DX in? I hope it's not CSP because that wouldn't be fair. Type-R's are in that class, as well as all the Si's, MR2's, etc.
Anyway, I don't think the Kosei K1 16x7.5" are any heavier than the stock steel rims, but definitely lighter is better and the 12lb ones you 're looking into is pretty light. Just FYI: my K1 15x7" weigh only 13lbs (12.9 to be exact on my bathroom scale but give or take some error I 'll say 13 to be safe). 15x6.5 is fine for 205-50 tires but if you can find a light 15x7" go for it. The more width on the wheel the better because you may be able to fit 225-50 with no rubbing and the more rubber on the pavement the better for auto-x. If I had to do it all over again, I 'd probably get SSR competition 15x7.5" (10.9-11.3) or 15x7" (9.6-10.1lbs!). They 're a little pricy, almost $300/wheel but truly light. Their 16x7 is not bad either at 11.3-11.9lbs (from the tirerack magazine). I 'm seeing more & more auto-x Pro's and champs using these wheels. They 're really light and $289 a piece is not bad for a ~10lb good quality alloy. That's 3lbs lighter than my K1 for double the price..
Your Tokiko Illuminas will do fine. Your setup is fine especially for a novice. Yes, you should be in the Novice class most or all of your 1st season. Then what you could do is throw out the springs (sell them), and buy GC coilovers. Your Illuminas can handle up to 400-450lb spring rates. So you don't have to replace them. The roll bar is a little overkill, especially for a novice in his first season. You 'll get a lot critisism. I woudn't do it right away and it's not necessary. It's allowed in SP, but usually serious drivers and others with dedicated race cars put it on. Besides, the rear seat will become unuseable and that thing will be right near your head too. Sometimes it's hard to get in and out of the car. Autopower does make the best roll bars & cages though. I 'm pretty sure though, that if you convert the drums to discs in the rear, it will throw you out of SP and you wouldn't want that..
So you 're on the right track with everything. The only "slight" problem I have is the 6.5" rim. Since you 're already getting serious about auto-x and prepping the car, you might as well try and "maximize" your chances. Wheels & tires are the most important thing. If you 're gonna get rims get at least 7". The bigger the diameter, the better it will support the tire. That's what I was told by 2 recent National Champs and some Pro class drivers that race locally here.

chem123 · November 2001

Oh! Didn't think of the old CRXes, only the EG Si and the 6th gen Si. You're right about them having drums. Thanks for the heads up on the rollbar

...just was considering my options. If you had to compare the 16x7.5 w/ 205/45 tires and the 15x6.5 205/50 tires, which would you rather have? Does the wider rim (less tire rollover under hard cornering) make up for the 4 lb weight difference?

I really would like to know if you guys would sell the Koseis to get the Rotas. Of course, I could always keep the Koseis, have fun with autox and then if I like it I could invest in some SSRs (been looking at those for a while, too...would probably go with the 15x7).

Yes, I will eventually sell the Tokico springs and get some GC coilovers. What spring rates do you recommend for a car that must also be daily driven? I would actually rather have it more tuned towards racing than daily driving as I really don't mind driving with stiff suspensions. Would 400F and 350R cut it?

Okay, so after the seats, rear sway, and the brake upgrade, I should be set for my first autox season. From there (and this could easily change as I learn more) I will probably go with a CF hood and cut down my weight elsewhere also, get rear discs (if I can handle moving up in classification), and go with GCs with some custom spring rates. In the farther future: B18C1, SSRs, and either Koni, H&R, or (gasp) Zeal B2 coilovers

.

Still kinda confused about my current wheel situation, though...

only1harry · November 2001

I would definitely go with the lighter Rota wheels. Although the weight difference is about 3-3.5lbs (Tirerack has the K1 16x7.5 listed as 15-15.5lbs, I think you said Rota is 12..) it's still a big difference, to me anyway, and the diameter of both tires are 205. Definitely go with the lighter rim. 6.5" width is fine for 205-50s. Too bad you didn't get the K1 15x7" that are 2lbs lighter. I 'm sure you 'll be able to sell your rims fast if they 're in good shape.
I don't think a DX can handle SM (Street Modified) if you upgrade to rear discs, not even with the best experienced auto-xer behind the wheel. SM cars usually have tons more power than a Civic DX. Very common cars in SM are Civic hybrids with B18C & C5 motors. So if you plan on upgrading the motor, go for rear discs. I was just talking to a guy the other day with a B18C5 in his EG HB. The motor is totally stock. He had I/H/E, and some problems with the ECU where he couldn't go past 8K RPM. His first time ever at the strip he ran a 14.8 with full interior & everything. With proper redline at 8500 he 'll be in the mid 14's easily if not better. These motors work wonders on light cars such as yours.
I 've also talked to a few other SM guys that race their Civics. One of them had 350F/300R GC coilovers with Illuminas. He said the ride was not that great but with the shocks set to 1 all around it wasn't too bad. Anything 400 and up is going to suck as far as ride goes.

cjhannan · November 2001

Harry: the JDM header in it's natural state has kind of a blue-ish gray gun metal color. I've only seen them brand new and not installed so I don't know what it will look like after it's been on the car for a while but I imagine that the heat from the engine will cause some sort of discoloration. As far as a catalytic converter goes, I agree with Chem -- I'd go with the Carsound cat and not the Random one. I know one guy with a Type R that has gone through 3 Random cats in 2 years, mostly because the heat shields on those things are a POS are start making an obnoxious rattling noise. Plus the Carsound cat mates up perfectly to the JDM header. One thing for sure is that if you get the JDM header, you'll need a new cat or you'll need to cut down part of the OE exhaust if you stay with the stock cat b/c the JDM header is longer, i.e., the collector and flange where the cat bolts on is further toward the back of the car than the stock manifold. The Carsound cat is shorter in length than the OE cat so when it is used with the JDM header, they have the same total length as the OE manifold and cat. So, it'll meet up perfectly with where the OE cat-back starts. Make sense?

Chem: about your brakes, suspension and wheels questions, I agree with what Harry said. Upgrading to big rotors and calipers in the front, and swapping drums to discs in the back will put you in a Solo II class that you'll encounter some unbelievably tough competition. You'd do well to put some good brake pads on the fronts (Hawk, Porterfield, Axxis), and stainless steel brake lines, and then bleeding the entire system with a high quality brake fluid. You should notice a big improvement in braking performance after that. If you go the coilover route, I'd go with Ground Controls because they are reasonably priced and, as you know, you can custom order your spring rates. I don't know your car well enough to recommend what the best spring rates would be, but I'm sure if you asked over at H-T.com you'd get alot of opinions on that. :-D As far as wheels go, I too saw the group buy on Rotas and was very interested in one particular wheel (I can't remember which model) but opted not to go for it when I found out that it only came in a 6.5" width (I REALLY want 7" wide wheels) and that it did not come in white (only black and silver). IMHO white wheels on a white car look the best. Also, I'm not sure what the stock wheel size is on your Civic but I'm pretty sure it's not 16" diameter. So, why do you want to go that big. Sure, it might look great cosmetically, but you're going to lose acceleration and braking performance with a larger diameter wheel, even if it's the same weight or lighter than stock. All of my most trusted Honda/Acura advisor-gurus in the Atlanta area advice against going to a bigger wheel. Also, if a 15" wheel is good enough for the Realtime ITRs in the World Challenge, then that's good enough for me. In fact, one guy here is trying to talk me into getting a set of 14" diameter wheels (ones that would obviously clear the rotors and other brake stuff) because of the performance benefits (lighter wheels and tires therefore less unsprung weight; less rotational inertia to overcome in braking and accelerating, etc.). I did some research on this and found that the downside to going with a 14" wheel (besides the fact it would look like I'm from the "ghetto") is that there are not many good available options for tires in the 14" size range. So, if I win the Lotto soon I'll get a set of white Volk TE-37s, but I'll probably end up with a set of white Kosei K1s. Harry, are your Kosei's 7" or 7.5" wide? Will the 7.5" ones cause rubbing problems on our car? Thanks.

only1harry · November 2001

thanks for all the info on the header & cat! What does the Carsound cat go for? 200,250? I 've seen the Random ones. They look small and short.

I think Chem is looking into buying the Rota 15x6.5, not 16" so he 's on the right track. He has the 16x7.5" K1s now and wants to sell them.
I 'm not sure if Kosei makes 15x7.5 K1s. I 've only seen 15x7". So my answer is I don't know. Kosei does make a 15x8" though but I don't think fits or is recommended for our cars. I 'd love to have a 15x8". Why don't you give tirerack a call and see what they say. Also find out what the offset is. Now I do know from guys I race with, that with 225-50-15 tires, you 'll get rubbing in the rear! With the 45mm one (that I have) you 'll get rubbing on the inside, and with the 38mm, you get rubbing on the outside, on the fender. With 225-50s that is. One person said that cutting the fender lip all together helped, the other said it didn't help and it still rubbed after bending his in. It probably depends on the suspension setup and how much the car is lowered. I do know that I should 've went with the 38mm 15x7 K1, and not the 45mm that I have now. Right now the rim of the rear wheels is only 2mm away from the upper control arm. I think if my car were lowered more in the rear it would 've rubbed as 1 person told me his were doing. So I think I may just 've lucked out because I 'm not lowered as much. Nothing is rubbing now, but I think if I lower any more, which I want to do with the GCs, it will rub. So get the 38mm ones if you decide to go with K1s, which is better for handling anyway, because it pushes the wheels out a bit. If mine rub after I lower it another 1/2" in the back with the GCs (it really needs to be lowered more in the back, the front has always looked fine for some reason), I 'll get H&R 5mm spacers.
The K1 is actually a very popular wheel. There are usually at least 1/2 dozen cars in every event (and I go to 4 different clubs/locations) racing with K1s, different sizes & colors. Civics, Miatas, Tegs and I even saw a '90's Sentra with them on. I also see people at the end of the event taking off their R tires that are on ultralight Volk or SSR, and putting on their street tires on K1 rims

Mine have actually held up well and made it fine through their first auto-x season. I inspected them over the weekend after I got the car washed and they look like new with no scratches. I 've only put 2500-3k mi. on them though since I bought them (May). This weekend I 'll be putting the GSR wheels back on with the RE730s. I hope I won't be too disappointed. I 've been driving around on R tires for over 6mos!

chem123 · November 2001

Harry, didn't the link to the Carsound site give you a price? I thought the price was around $90 for one whereas I've seen groupbuys for $120.

Here is the email I got back concerning the rear disc conversion. I plan to hold off on it for a while, but I it sounds like I would be able to do the brake swap if I use some Si brakes:

"This could only be done through the SP update/backdate rule, which would
allow for any disc brakes from other Honda models listed with yours on the
same line in the rule book, Appendix A. You could not use an aftermarket
brake system. I am not familiar enough with the late model Civics to know if
any of the Civics listed with yours in SP ever had disc brakes in the rear.
If they did, you could use those brakes. If not, you would have to stay with
your original brakes to stay in SP.

Howard Duncan
SCCA Rally/Solo Project Manager
303-779-6622, FAX 303-694-3654
1-800-770-2055"

...And the wheel question:

Okay, the Slipstreams are 15x6.5 with a 40mm offset (ideal, no?) and weigh a tad under 12 lbs (11.8-12 lbs). These I can afford and I like how they will be easy to clean (gunmetal)

. Is it important to get a wheel like the Kosei with 7" width or is it better to stick with the 6.5" width and be happy with the weight savings? I am basically worried about tire rollover under hard cornering. With the right tire pressures, should I be okay or is it important to get that extra width? Your help is much appreciated as I am looking to get everything together ASAP.

cjhannan · November 2001

205 size tires will be very happy on a 6.5" wide wheel. I've got 205s on my stock wheels (6" wide) and they do OK. I'm told 225s will fit on a 6.5" wide wheel, but it's suppose to be very tight. I'd say as long as you're running only 205s on the wheels, the Slipstreams should be fine -- they are a little lighter than the 15x7 K1s, and the group buy price on the Rota's is very appealing too. Tire rollover on the Rota's should not be a problem with 205s. I don't have a clue about what's the proper offset for your car. If it's the same as the Integras, then a 40 offset should be good. Let us know what you decide!

only1harry · November 2001

for 205-50's the 6.5" rim is fine. I don't know, I just never considered anything less than 7" when I was shopping around, because some older auto-x pros told me to get the widest rim that would fit the car without problems..
40mm is pretty good too.
$90 for the cat? Wow sounds cheap. I hope you guys are right and this isn't a garbage cat. I don't want to have to replace it every 6mos. I guess this explains why I 've heard so many people put it down (mostly ITR guys) at the auto-x events. From my experience you get what you pay for, most of the time. I hope this isn't the case here. The Random is like $200. It's hard to believe it's not as good as carsound..
I must 've missed the price, it was like 11pm at night and I was tired when I looked at it. I assume I can't use it unless I have a 2.5" (& longer) aftermarket header with 2.5" opening? Will my car pass state emission inspection?

chem123 · November 2001

Couple of comments from Honda-tech as well as testimonies, install ideas, dynos, and sellers. In summary, Carsound is definitely the way to go and the best price/service will be found from Dave at SMS Products (look up "SMS" at h-t) and Mike@IPS Racing (TypeRMSM). Expect to pay in the neighborhood of $400 for the header and $165 for the Carsound cat (this is with the flanges and o2 sensors welded in). Dave and Mike are very knowledgeable and I would not hesitate to email both of them with your questions.

"Got mine from Dave at SMS Products. Dave adds the needed flanges to the ends of the Cat as well as the O2 sensor bungs. It becomes a bolt-on rather than a fabrication project."

"The way in which Dave has designed the exhaust exit from the back of the Cat, eliminates the restriction caused by the usual jam -a- pipe-up-the- back -of-the-Cat (there's a picture, Eh?) design."

"Dave is SMSP on this board. Mike@IPS Racing (TypeRMSM) and Trey@Import-Specialists (Carlex) also have the carsound cat as a full boltin (ie with flanges)"

"I got mine from Dave (SMSP, above). If you want one that's bolt-on w/O2 bungs and cleanly welded flanges, he's the man to talk to."

"Carsound cats can be bought from SMS Products in charlotte NC, good stuff, SMS uses them for fitment with OEM JDM 4-1 header.."

Cool Idea:

http://www.honda-tech.com/

zerothread?id=95288

Dyno:
http://www.honda-tech.com/
zerothread?id=62865&page=1

here’s the guy to contact Dave (SMSP, his website is not up yet): smsproducts@novacoxmail.com.

Here are the Flow Rates:
1) Catco (metal core) 2.25" 223.8 cfm
2) Catco (metal core) 2.5" 271.9 cfm
3) Catco (std. core) 2.25" 338.2 cfm
4) Catco (std. core) 2.5" 388.0 cfm
5) Random Tech 2.25" 297.1 cfm
6) Car Sound 2.25" 342.7 cfm
7) Test Pipe 2.25" 407.1 cfm
8) Stock NSX 242.1 cfm
9) Stock Type R 223.6 cfm
10) Stock Integra 218.3 cfm
This test I believe was conducted by CompTech. I don't know which series of Carsound cat the above 2-1/4" was, 54006 or 94006. It was too bad that they didn't test the 2-1/2" cats from CarSound. I recently received an email from Carsound which gave their flow rate for the 94006 at 14" of vacuum. The above tests by Comptech were reported to be conducted at 28". Carsound estimated the 94006 would flow around 400 CFM at 28".
Endyn also perform a flow test on the Carsound, Catco and Random Technologies a while back ( I don't believe that it was posted though) and they told me that the 94000 series was the best. One other thing to consider in the design of the cat is how smooth vs abrutly the shell transitions to the inlet and outlets.

chem123 · November 2001

Got mine from Dave at SMS Products. Dave adds the needed flanges to the ends of the Cat as well as the O2 sensor bungs. It becomes a bolt-on rather than a fabrication project.

The way in which Dave has designed the exhaust exit from the back of the Cat, eliminates the restriction caused by the usual jam -a- pipe-up-the- back -of-the-Cat (there's a picture, Eh?) design.

Dave is SMSP on this board. Mike@IPS Racing (TypeRMSM) and Trey@Import-Specialists (Carlex) also have the carsound cat as a full boltin (ie with flanges)

I got mine from Dave (SMSP, above). If you want one that's bolt-on w/O2 bungs and cleanly welded flanges, he's the man to talk to.

Carsound cats can be bought from SMS Products in charlotte NC, good stuff, SMS uses them for fitment with OEM JDM 4-1 header..

Cool Idea:

http://www.honda-tech.com/

zerothread?id=95288

chem123 · November 2001

I put my stuff up for sale at a local shop and as I bought the wheels and tires for $1100, I am looking to get maybe $900-$950 as they are hardly used. The Slipstreams with Kumhos would run me around $750 balanced and with a 4-wheel align. and some lightweight lugs ($55 shipped, might as well go all out). I am almost thinking I should hold off on it a little while just because it sounds like I need at least a 7" width on the wheel from what I hear elsewhere also. But what about the GS-Rs that race with stock wheels? Do they corner that much worse than some 15x7? Harry, was there a big difference in cornering when you changed rims? I am almost thinking the Slips will be okay for me because I don't think I will get THAT serious into autox. I know I am beating this topic to death, but this is a really important question as I want to find a wheel that I will stick with for a couple years.

only1harry · December 2001

wow, you remind my of myself a couple of years ago when I used to really research everything

The cat stats and everything is very helpful and interesting.
So the answer is I definitely need to go with a JDM header in order to use the Carsound cat (94000 series) or is that just for the 2.5" cat? I can probably use the 2.25" Carsound and keep the stock header? The JDM header for $400 is not bad at all.
So this guy Dave buys new OEM O2 sensors and welds them in the cat? I 'm going to have to e-mail him. I have a lot of questions for him.
As far as going from a 6" to 7" wheels, it is a noticeable difference. You can tell when you take a turn that there's more wheel there and you feel the better traction, or I should say you feel less tire rollover. From 6.5" to 7" I would imagine it's negligeable. In auto-x the difference is probably very slight too from 6.5 to 7". I know the 7" rims helped my times a little bit though over the 6" ones. The thing is you don't know if you 'll get serious about auto-x or not. None of us did. I just wanted to try it and see if it was fun. I was hooked right away and I found myself driving all around to go to auto-x events. Soon after I was modding the car. I wouldn't say I 'm very serious about it (I think Casey is, having gone to the divisionals in his 1st season!) as far as throwing thousands of dollars into the car, but I know a lot of people that have. They go crazy.. I saw many people this year, that changed their Civics into hybrids when they were just stock or SP the year before. They were pouring money into their cars like they were rolling in it. One guy told me he was selling his Civic when the season came to an end. He had spend over $8K on it (he has a CTR motor in it and good suspension) and now his fiance wants to save up for a wedding and had to sell it because he put everything he had into it, etc. You just have to be careful, you don't go overboard. Some people loose interest all of a sudden too or get disappointed after winning a few trophies and then loosing a few in a row, you don't see them anymore. I think it's happening to my brother. He was hooked like I was in '99 & '00. This year he started coming out with us again in the beginnng of the season, but some younger ITR guys (my brother is 36) had gotten better than him towards the end of last season and they started kicking his butt. So he did about 4 events and then stopped coming in June. I had to beg him to come out and he did once in late September where he didn't do that great again. Surprisingly he did go to Evolution school in late Aug. because he had prepaid it in June. Everyone takes losing different but some people that were winning 1st & 2nd place trophies for 2 seasons take it hard when they go home emty handed a few times in a row. For me it's personal satisfaction knowing I can do it. Others think they 're not good anymore or like they 've failed and get depressed. Others keep modding their cars more & more and sometimes they get thrown into such rediculously fast classes that they don't have a chance of getting a trophy again.. So what I 'm trying to say is you never know how you 'll react or behave once you start racing, so you can can't really speculate that you won't be "that serious".
What I try to do now is not pay attention to my competition's times. This helps me concentrate and not worry about how the others are doing, and also set personal goals for that day. Like I want to get a 49 or I want to be in the high 48's or whatever. I 'll usually watch some of the PROs to see what times they 're pulling and then estimate where I should be. Anyway, I 'm babbling again. Whether you go with 6.5" or 7" doesn't really matter. Just have fun and enjoy it. The .05 (5/100th)sec. difference that it might make won't matter much anyway.

only1harry · December 2001

I did lose 2nd place once by 2/1000's of a sec. in STS last year (out of 17 cars) but that was my fault and I know where I screwed up and what I did wrong.

chem123 · December 2001

As far as I know about the cat size is that the JDM 4-1 header has a 2.5" collector at the end of it and should use the 2.5" cat. As far as preparation of the cat, Dave and the other guy (IPS) weld o2 sensors and the flange so that you are emissions legal AND it fits with the header. After that, I don't really know too much more about the header and what number Cat to get. SMSP and IPS should be able to help you much better than I can.

Another reason I am looking into getting the Slipstreams is that I can get some better tires for cheaper (i.e. Bridgestone 730s). I have heard of the 950s but don't think they make them in a 205/50/15 size. Harry and Casey, don't you both run the 730s? How are the handling characteristics of them and how is the treadwear thus far? Basically, I am looking at the 730s for $94 each, the Pirelli P700(z?) $72 each, and the Kumho Supra (street tire) $60 each. I have the Kumhos now, and since it is my first "performance" tire on a "performance" car, I think they are decent. This slip a little more than I like but at very predictable, however they seem to have low limits. I would like to hear your recommendations for a street tire that is decent for autox and has decent treadwear (out of the ones I listed, I think the Kumhos last longest).

This way, I can get 11.8 lb 15x6.5 wheels with some lightweigh lugnuts (save 60g a wheel which isn't much but they go with the wheel and are also wheel locks), and some pretty good tires (RE730) for $871.

only1harry · December 2001

This year I ran the whole season on race tires Kumho V700. Last year I had the RE730s on and auto-xed with them all season. I really liked this tire and it has been the best ZR tire I 've ever had. As far as ZR/WR tires, in the past I 've had Dunlop SP8000, Yokohama AVS Intermediate and the older Dunlop D40. The Bridgestone RE730 is better than the others. Oh I also had Pirelli P700 or 7000 I think like 3-4yrs ago. Lasted about 5 mos! RE730 #1 so far. The Bridgestone also has 300 treadwear so it should wear pretty good. I 'm putting them back on for the winter although I won't be driving the GSR that much since they 're not all-season. They have tons of tread even after 17-18 auto-x events last season, plus I put 10k mi. on them. They do well in the rain too.
The new Falken Azenis are supposed to be pretty good too and many say it's close to an R tire so you may want to check them out. Very cheap too. 205-50 I think is like $65. I saw 3-4 cars with them on at the last event. People are saying good things about them. Don't know how many ZR tires these people have had before though. For many it's their 1st or 2nd high performance tire.. The Kumho is a pretty average ZR tire. I wouldn't buy it.
So how does my beloved Civic HB handle with the Tokiko kit? You gotta get a sway bar!! You 'll see a big difference. The only thing I didn't like about my '97 HB was that it didn't have power steering and that I couldn't go over 111-112mph. Other than that I loved that car. It can be a very good looking car (especially the black one) with just some alloys, night & day from stock. Too bad I never even took a picture of it after I put wheels on it.. oh well.

chem123 · December 2001

HAHA...As money is a little short for me right now, I'm trying to finalize my seat situation (I need to order brackets to mount the rails to the frame)...depending how much the are (either $80 for both or $80 each) that is how much I have to spend. The only reason I am considering the Kumhos is really their treadwear and cost. How do you think the RE730 treadwear compares to the Kumho? I have heard from some people that they actually like autoxing on Kumhos because they enyoy drifting around the corners. Is this crazy or not?

awaltrip · December 2001

I'm considering purchasing a '95 Integra GSR Sedan, yes 4 doors. I was wondering if anyone has heard of any problems with the sedans. I was specifically wondering if anyone knows whether the rear seat (or any part of it) folds down, as in lets you accomodate a pair of skis laid down from rear seats to trunk area.

chem123 · December 2001

Have not heard of any problems concerning the GS-R sedan and am not sure about the fold down seat question. You can probably look up the rear seat q on msn.com under "explore" and then click "auto." They have a lot of spec info there.

chem123 · December 2001

The sway bar question: go with the ITR 22mm rear sway with the Beaks mounting kit (good kit) ~$230.

or

go with the Suspension Techniques sway bar kit (front and rear) the rear is 19mm and the cost is about the same as the above

I have read about the importance of a rear sway for a while as it tightens up the rear and induces oversteer. However, recently I have heard about the importance of upgrading front sways (or putting one in in the first place for me;) ) to raise the handling limits of the car and have more predictable behavior rather than "raw" oversteer. What do you guys think? What setup would you go with? My thoughts are to go with the ITR sway and put in the ST front sway if necessary.

only1harry · December 2001

uprading the front sway should help but I would do the rear sway first and see how the car behaves. You will not have "raw oversteer". Oversteer shouldn't be too bad, plus you can always set the rear Illuminas softer if you encounter excessive oversteer but I have never heard of such a report from people with a stock front sway and a 22mm rear. You do have a front upper strut bar right? The front sway in your Civic should be a 20mm if I remember correctly. '99-00 Si's have 22mm and Tegs have 24mm.

only1harry · December 2001

good car, no problems. The only problem is a defective clutch retaining spring that could break during or after the warranty expires, usually under 60k mi. If this car has higher mileage then most likely its previous owner has replaced it.

chem123 · December 2001

Hey guys, found a sweet deal on some awesome street tires (S-O3) @ Tirerack: 195/50WR15 for $78 each. The RE730 in 195/50/15 were $79 each and the 205/50/15 were $92 each. It doesn't seem like there is much of a tread wear difference between the two but I am curious what you think will handle better with the planned 15x6.5 wheels. Would the wider RE730 corner better than the S-O3? I really only put the 195 RE730 there for comparison because obviously if I go with that size it will be with the S-O3s. Really curious what you guys have heard about this tire (street/autox) and what you would do in my situation.

I think I will go with the 22mm sway and upgrade the front later. I finally got the spring rates for my springs: 252F and 123R (same as Prokit). It will be a big difference if I go with GC later on down the line!

cjhannan · December 2001

Hey gang. You've been busy over the weekend...
Well, dyno day was a blast. There was a large group of about 30 cars from the Atlanta area (about half of them were there for dyno purposes; the other half were just spectating). Lots and lots of tricked out cars... I wonder where these kids get their money from! My results were good, but (of course) I was hoping for better #s... My best run was a 155.8 hp and 116.3 torque. Not bad but not the 160 hp I thought I might run. So basically, adding I/H/E to help the car breathe better added about 10% more hp over stock (assuming a baseline of 140hp) and a bit less than 10% more torque. Plus, my power and torque curve were remarkably flat (no major peaks or valleys) so the need to fine tuning with VAFC is not that apparent. Guess I'll save myself some $$ on that one! Soon, I'll get my dyno graph scanned and try to post it here for your analysis.

chem123 · December 2001

Sounds like the dyno day was pretty fun. I wouldn't be disappointed with the results because every dyno is different and conditions also make a difference. Definite positive on the flat power and torque curves. Do I hear Jun 3 cams? j/k what about ITR cams? Here's two really good sites for dyno info:

http://www.importreview.com/main.html

http://b16a.com/dynocenter/home.html

now you have something to compare with! I think the sites might include a couple GS-R baselines to help you guess what yours might hav been. Good luck!

only1harry · December 2001

I 'm a little disappointed with your torque though but it's within the norm for the mods you have. I must be lucky or have a strong motor to get 116.5ft-lbs with just the AEM. I guess it must be the mileage on the motor. I had 14k mi. when I dynoed. 152.0whp & 116.5 at 72deg. Mine I think are actually considered high with just a CAI. What was the temp when they had it on the dyno? They should be on the printout. My 3d run was done about 20min. after the 1st one. The temp was 73.1 Peak HP dropped to 151.8 but torque stayed the same. So you see if it were like 80deg. out when you did it, at 72deg. (like mine) you might 've gained about 1whp.
Come to think of it, I 've only seen dynos of 120 torque and up with cams. With I/H/E I think the highest I 've seen is 118-119. It's hard to go up much in torque after that without going into the head & motor.
Another possibility is that your stock HP was lower. Mine was 139.6whp. Stock torque was 109.1
Nevertheless 156whp is good for a 4-5yr old Integra ('97 right?) with what 70k+ on it? I wonder if weight has something to do with the peak #s.. since yours is a little heavier than coupes. Sometimes there's a bigger difference in whp or torque in the midrange than it is at peak. My peak was around 7400-7500 but the difference looks pretty much the same all throughout the REV band. Both lines when compared on the printout are like totally parallel to each other with no dips or gaps or anything. Did you advance the timing at all? I wonder if that would 've made a difference. I might have! I didn't touch the timing on mine because I was pretty happy with the results and the shop was mostly a Mazda & Toyota race shop (they had Supras on the dyno with 4-500whp!) with only a few Hondas there so I didn't trust them to mess with my car.

chem123 · December 2001

Yeah, if you look at the dyno sites, it seems like the older GS-R pulled stronger (and got better gains from a CAI) because of less restrictive emissions. However, I never thought the weight of the car had anything to do with an engine dyno. Oh well, all in all...not too shabby

cjhannan · December 2001

I agree that my torque is lower that you might expect. Harry, it's great you've got such good #s with just a CAI; you're car is probably one of the stronger stock GSRs out there. I sure wish I had a dyno of my car when it was stock -- my current dyno #s might be more impressive if I started with #s typically below what most GSRs run. Still, I'm not complaining -- 156 and 116 to the wheels is pretty good for our little 4-bangers with just bolt-on's. Oh yeah, the temperature was perfect for the dyno runs, too -- somewhere in the high 50's/low 60s. Yes, my car is a '97, but with low miles ~55K. I probably should check the valves one of these days too...

chem123 · December 2001

Just wanted to let you guys know that I have put my Koseis up for sale in a couple of places and am just waiting for the right offer. I will just keep them if the right offer doesn't come along. The more I think about autox, the more I don't think I can afford to be serious. I mean, autoxing takes a serious toll on our cars and this is my daily driver that must last for a while for me. I think I will go ahead with the rear sway and then try it out some time (whether I have the 16s or the new 15s by then). I really don't think the Koseis will hold me back too much as they aren't too heavy and they have that great 7.5" width. After that, if I like it I will upgrade the front brakes. When I do get another car, I will definitely keep my hatch and then autox it for sure

.

only1harry · December 2001

I can definitely tell the difference. I can feel the mass or support of the 7" rims missing when I take turns. Just doesn't feel the same. What's funny is that when I sat in it and drove it around the block with the R3730s, I immediately noticed I was sitting higher. The car actually got taller because there 's so much more rubber on the Bridgestones. The Kumhos had no tread on them at all and when stock, they have very little tread to begin with. They start out at 6/32" but after a couple of auto-x events they 're down to 2-3/32". After 6 events they 're like slicks. The car actually sits higher now and it's about 1/2" higher off the ground! It 'll take me a while to get used to it again. At least I can now drive the car freely (until it starts snowing) where before I only drove to the races because I didn't want to wear out the R tires.
As I took off the first K1 wheel & tire and picked up the Acura wheel w/RE730 to mount it on the car, I felt a big difference in weight..once more. K1 w/Kumho was much lighter (although Kumho V700 is supposed to be one of the heaviest tires around). Of course 1/5" of rubber was gone all around the Kumhos, but nevertheless after picking up the OEM wheels, the K1s felt really light. One thing though about the 15x7" wheels with Kumho R tires is they gave me crappy gas mileage (I hope it's not the motor taking too much abuse with the racing, doubt it..). About 2mpg less. So I 'm curious to see if I can get 29-30mpg again with the OEM wheels & street tires.

chem123 · December 2001

Isn't it amazing how we get so adapted to our cars that we notice every little change?

only1harry · December 2001

We also know their limits and exactly how they behave and many different circumstances.
I have to do something to fix my suspension problem soon. When I hit 80-85mph the car vibrates and it's been doing it for sometime. The steering wheel is way off center and the car pulls a lot. This is the result from that big pot home I hit after the 1st or 2nd auto-x event in early May. Even when I firm up the shocks, there 's a problem where it's hard to turn the steering wheel! The problem is that the caster is 1 deg. off. The front right wheel is behind the left one. This causes the car to corner fine when making a right turn, but when making a left one it's messed up and doesn't do it as well. I think if the car were normal I would 've done better in auto-x this season.. Anyway, I 'm hoping it's only the lower control arm like the dealer & a frame/axle shop suggested. The reason I didn't get it fixed was because the frame shop wanted to replace both control arm and spindle for a LOT of money, and the dealer said they didn't want to get involved because a specialty or body shop should work on it. So now I think I 'll get a new control arm. I was thinking of a used one but I don't think I want to risk getting one that might be bent. It's very hard to tell if they 're bent or not. I 'm also hoping the Koni shock didn't get damaged because I 'm starting to feel some changes with the Konis. They 're actually getting stiffer and I have to keep softening them up more to get the same ride I had before. This is only with the front ones. Could be 2 auto-x seasons of about 40 events are taking their toll on them but I would think they 're built to last longer than that. Don't know. I think it could be that my suspension geometry is getting worse with this caster problem I 'm having, and could have affected other things.
I 'm surprised I came in 8th overall in the last event with NASA. I mean I have this problem plus I had ripped Kumhos with the steel showing! The fact that I 'm driving around with a major suspension problem became more evident yesterday when I took the GSR to work (160mi. round trip) for the 1st time since the pot hole incident last May, since I had the street tires on. I just didn't like the way the car was pulling and vibrating when going over 80 or 85. It's something I have to fix and I can't procrastinate any more or the RE730s will be unevenly worn and that's a shame because they have a lot of tread on them.

chem123 · December 2001

cjhannan · December 2001

Had a lot of fun on Sunday. Went to Chattanooga, TN for an autocross. My friend, the reigning DSP champ in Atlanta who drives a very fast GSR hback, came up to co-drive my car. His car got rear ended by some pimply-faced punk and was still in the repair shop. So I figure this is a good chance to see how well I'm driving and get an educated opinion about how my car is handling. Well, the short of the long is that he bested my best time by ~.3 secs. So, I didn't feel too bad given that he's been doing this for about 2 yrs. longer than I have. Best of all was the feedback I got about how well my car handled. Basically, he said my car does not rotate/oversteer in the tight sections as well or as easily as his does. We tried different tire pressures and different shock settings in the rear to make some adjustments, but even then he said it was challenging. Overall, he said my car felt real strong and was setup pretty well. But now I've got a second opinion from someone I trust. My instincts tell me that for a GSR sedan I need to stiffen up the rear end more than you would a hb. I believe the extra 2" in wheel base and extra 100 lbs. in weight over the hb mean I need some more help in the rear. I think that means I need a stiffer spring rates than I have right now with the Comptech sports (which are only about 210 ft/lbs). So, I need to research what the GSR gurus say about stiffer springs, and what rates I should shoot for. What do you think?

cjhannan · December 2001

When I left the race on Sunday, I had no idea how I placed within STS or PAX because their computer crashed before everything started. So, they had to manually record each time, and there was no chance for the results to be posted that evening. Well, the results are in now and here's how I did: 3rd in STS. My buddy Chris who co-drove my car took 1st place, and then a very quick Prelude SH snuck in between Chris and me. Here's the best part -- I PAXed 10th overall; my buddy PAXed 6th. Pretty cool that we were both in the top 10, no?

chem123 · December 2001

Sweet top ten finish! Also, it's pretty cool you weren't that far behind one of the pros driving your own car. Definitely need stiffer springs (even mine are stiffer

). I can't wait for my base mounts for my seats to come in so I can finally bolt those suckers in! Already have the sliders and the female seat buckles (procured from a really old Honda at a local junkyard). Have been rolling around on the steelies for two weeks now as I try to limit the mileage on my Kumhos as they are for sale. The handling has gone WAY down as well as braking. I'm thinking it won't be too bad to keep the Koseis as I do have that extra width and I can always get some 15x7.5 SSR Competitions when I really get serious into autox (i.e. when my hatch is not daily driven).

only1harry · December 2001

CJ! on some nice driving! I don't think I have ever PAX'd 10th even when I was in STS. The beauty of STS is that it carries a better PAX than even GS. I think my best PAX in STS was like 14th or 16th. Now this was out of 120 cars or so. I have placed in the top 10 in raw rank though several times this year. In the last event I came in 8th overall. I managed to get better times than several M3's and other cars that I was never able to before so i know I drove pretty well. What helped me was that this last course had 2 slaloms that I managed to fly through in the afternoon runs once I had set up the Konis properly (softened them up more all around, if too stiff my car goes through the slalom like a snail..). That helped me gain over 1 sec.
Anyway, what kind of suspension setup does your friend have in his GSR? I can make my GSR rotate really nice but only if I don't go too stiff in the rear with the Konis. If the Konis in the back are more 1 turn (actually like 7 lines, less than a full turn) or higher, then the car doesn't rotate well, but fishtails too much and feels unstable & loose and wants to wipe out. When I 'm down to 5-6 lines (3/4 of a turn) in the back then the car rotates really well especially when I have the same pressures in the back as the front or higher. I usually run 38psi Front & 39 rear. If you have much lower pressures in the back than the front, the car won't rotate well on the turns or chicago boxes and will slow you down because it will push. Now you 're making me give out all my secrets

Anyway, I think the secret is matching the spring rates with the shocks which I think I 've done or I 'm very close setting the Konis to match the spring rates of my springs. The H&R OEs are 276F/220R. I didn't know you have Comptech Sports. I thought you had bought the Eibach Prokit. Everyone that has the Comptech Sports has told me that they feel soft, but you 're right. With the extra 80-100lbs and the longer wheelbase of your sedan you could use some higher rates in the back.
My H&R's I think are near their end because the front has gotten very low and I now bottom out in driveways and stuff where in the beginning of the summer (season) I wasn't. I looked at the other guy's '98 Integra I usually go up against that has the regular H&R Sports (1.75-2" drop) and his wheel gap is about the same as mine and my OE's are supposed to be .75-1" drop. So I think they 're sagging which means they have lost some the original elastisity and spring rates. He bottoms out and hits speed bumps and driveways too. So maybe the 2 seasons (40 or so events) are about the lifespan of these springs. The car still feels and handles pretty good although it's not exactly as good as during the first year but not too far behind. The lower center of gravity helps too. The rear haven't settled as much as the front either. So do clubs or SCCA have events throughout the winter in your area? How far did you have to drive? I hear they have winder auto-x events in PA about 2hrs from here but there's no way I 'm driving in 20-30 deg. weather to race and freeze my butt working the course

Yeah wait till I start having withdrawls and see how fast I 'll drive down there

only1harry · December 2001

on one of my runs on June 24th. This club (SCCA chapter) holds their events at an airport and we race on one of the runways! It's only about 45ft wide but almost 200yds long so you can pick up some speeds. The courses here are designed usually with 2 slaloms (one near the start and the other in the middle or the top of the runway) which you go through on the way up and then again on the way down. In between are gates left and right and always one or two chicago boxes (mini sweepers) and you have to make a U-turn at the end of the runway and go through the course again. It's one of my favorites.

Now tell me my drop doesn't look like H&R or Neuspeed Sports (1.75+) in the front. The rear has only dropped a good 1" or so like it's supposed to. The front kept getting lower & lower this summer with each racing event. Looks good though..

cjhannan · December 2001

of my last autocross driving performance... hehehehe it's too much fun watching videos of me racing... and it's helpful too. I can already see several places how I would have done things differently. Always something to learn in this damning sport...

http://www.bseries.net/trey/video/Auto-X/hohosolocasey.WMV

cjhannan · December 2001

of my last autocross driving performance... hehehehe it's too much fun watching videos of me racing... and it's helpful too. I can already see several places how I would have done things differently. Always something to learn in this damning sport...

http://www.bseries.net/trey/video/Auto-X/hohosolocasey.WMV

chem123 · December 2001

I will critique you...just don't follow any of my criticism (because I haven't autoxed yet

).

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