Well I guess I'll just have to wait and see a "Lapis Blue" oner in person, but from comparing the pics from Mazda USA with those from the Canadian brochure, I have no doubt it is MUCH lighter/pale in Canada...
Thanks, I didn't have time to give the car a thorough look. I found a button in the glove compartment and it immediately reminded me of a Ford LTD my family had when I was growing up so I assumed it was the trunk release, not a lock out feature.
My next test drive will be of a 6s and I will give it more than just a quick glance for interior features.
are armchair reviews, IMO. Sometimes one gets the feeling that she reads the brochure and then writes a review including a few slams on the car to make the review look balanced.
I'm betting that Consumer Reports (yes I know many people have a dim view of CR) will rate the 6 close to the best, if not the best of the mid-size sedans.
I drove a Mazda6s on Saturday. Lapis Blue, Sport/Bose/Comfort/Premium Pkgs., leather seats, sunroof. I am going to compare the car to my 02 Jetta 1.8T automatic, only because I have owned this car for almost 30K miles and it's what I know.
Interior: I thought the interior was very nicely done, the doors close with a solid thunk and it feels very nice in there. Textures are pleasing to the touch and feel. Things I didn't like: I didn't really fit in the car. I am 6'3 and about 270lbs. When I adjusted the seat for a comfortable driving position (all the way back, moderate rake to the seatback, wheel all the way out) my hair slightly grazed the roof. My hair's buzzcut now, so this would be a problem if it were longer. Anyway, another thing that I noticed is that in bright sunlight, the labels on the center stack controls can be hard to see due to the silver backround. I couldn't get used to looking in a different location to see what radio station/temp I was choosing, but I'm sure one would grow accustomed to it after awhile. I was able to see the radio/temp display even with polarized sunglasses on, which is very good (the ones in my Jetta wash out in certain angles). I appreciated the steering wheel radio controls on the car, which have more functions than the ones my VW has. I also liked the instrument lighting alot as well.
I noticed the doors were still unlocked, and surprised there was no automatic locking function. This is a personal preference again though, but I am spoiled by having it for so long now. The seat also grew uncomfortable on the test ride, but I didn't really spend enough time in the car to get comfortable and fiddle with the controls. Then onto the road it was...
Driving impressions: The steering has a very Germanic feel to it, which I did like alot. The car took curves with grace, and the brakes were very strong as well. Pretty much tied with the Jetta there, and also has less body lean too in hard cornering.
The power was another story. I am used to the raw, brute-feeling power of a turbo with 180hp, which surges you forward at the touch of the pedal. The 6 doesn't do this, not even in V6 form. I was kinda surprised. The engine also feels a little lazy down low, which is expected since its torque peaks at a highish 5000rpm. Highway passing was adequate, but again not what I am used to. The engine also slightly vibrated the floorboard under my left foot, which I didn't like. I did, however, love the growl of it when revved up.
Walk around: When we got back, the guy opened the hood and trunk. I loved the seatback releases, right inside the trunk. Very convenient. I sat in the back seat too, with the driver's seat adjusted to fit me. My head touched the roof, and there wasn't enough room for my legs. He suggested one without a sunroof, but it's something I've always had and don't wanna forego. The back seat didn't look or feel much bigger than mine is, and I thought it would be larger. No problem for me, as I have no kids and don't carry many people anyway.
Final impressions: I thought the 6 to be a very nice ride. Definitely would recommend this car over a Camcord or Altima. I don't know about recommending it over a Passat, but I think the Passat buyer should definitely consider it though. I was actually impressed with the car, way to go Mazda!
Leather in your 6i looks real 'buttery' and more ivory than beige in photo. Do you know if your leather color is a close match to the factory leather? I'm interested in a beige or grey interior -- haven't seen either yet. Did you like the grey interior?
I'm surprised that your cloth seats could be replaced with leather by the dealer. So did they give you brand new seats in leather and take your 'old' cloth ones in exchange or re-cover your existing cloth ones. This sounds like a good way to get the non-heated leather seats option . Of course you didn't need the heated mirrors in Texas either .
Any more hints on finding more specifics on these aftermarket leather seats than "Classic Soft Trim"?
Beautiful car! Interior color good contrast.
I'm waiting to see what a 6i/MT in Sepang with beige looks like.
Just a little FYI, Mazda isn't the only one that claims a "sports sedan" and then doesnt make enough manual tranny's available. I had to order my 2003 Altima 3.5SE 5 speed, because there were only 110 5 speeds NATIONWIDE, and only 5 with leather/sport package, and ABS, in black on black.
If you can wait a month or two, factory ordering allows you to get all the options you want, and none that you don't. Plus you get it with less than 10 miles on the odometer.
The color of my interior (to me) is a light beige. But the point I was trying to make is the dealer has a sample of around 10 different colors in several shades of whatever color you want (beige, light beige, dark beige, etc). We tried to pick a color as close to the shade we wanted so it may not have matched EXACTLY. But we were very pleased with the combination we got.
We also looked at gray and that too probably would have looked nice with our black exterior, but we were trying to matched the leather on the shift knob (you can take the material out to the car you want and compare, or choose a color YOU think will look good). You don't have to choose the same color of the cloth material that's already in the car.
When a dealer replaces the cloth material, he replaces all of the areas that has cloth with new leather material. "Classic Soft Trim" IMO is probably a copyrighted symbol so I doubt if it's printed on any other material than the one we bought, and this was the only way I knew how to identify it to others (however I could be wrong). My point is, you need to look at the leather samples that YOUR dealer has and decide if you would like it or not, or if it's softer (or not)than the leather that comes from the factory.
Thanks for the comment about the contrast between my car and it's interior, we like it too, and we're very satisfied with how it came out.
Just found everything anyone would want to know about myphantom6's custom leather seats. Typed "classic soft trim" at google.com and got dozens of results.
Leather trim is made by a company in Austin Texas called Classic Soft Trim. Their web site is www.classicsofttrim.com and their tel# is 1-800-613-6004. They have 42 colors to choose from in smooth, pleated or perforated surfaces. There's nation-wide installation and all the dealers should know about them. CST has a 3 yr warrantee. They have moonroofs and wood/aluminum dashes too.
MyPhantom6, did you get the perforated seating surfaces, smooth surface door panels?
I agree with Vocus's review. Great car for the money. But I also found that below 3500 RPM, there was nothing there. Unfortunately I can't find a MT in San Diego. Anyone care to share their experiences about power at low RPM with the MT? This reason alone is making me lean toward a Jetta or Passat.
vocus, Your balanced and honest assessment of the 6 is one of the better posts that I have read. Very much appreciate your input. Though I have read other posts like yours in this forum, they have been few and far between.
I was kinda posting that forum and covering my head, I thought someone would be a little mad because I was comparing the car to my Jetta. Like I said in the post itself, I only did so because it's what I have been driving for over a year and what I know.
I really did like the 6s, it was a pretty nice ride. A little more head room and more low-end power, and it would be the perfect car. I much prefer it over the Camcord though.
Just wondering...anyone who qualifies for a Supplier (or Employee) Discount, ever have the dealer refuse to participate? I was talking to a guy at work whose wife bought a Protege5 or whatever, last year. He said they went to a dealer about 45 minutes away because the local dealer refused to honor the Supplier Discount price because the car was so new (i.e. they knew someone else would buy it at a higher price if this guy went elsewhere = more $$$ for the dealer in profit). So they went to another dealer and THEY honored the discount. Anyone else had this happen? Especially with the 6, since demand seems to be quite high right now since it's so new.
The power was another story. I am used to the raw, brute-feeling power of a turbo with 180hp, which surges you forward at the touch of the pedal. The 6 doesn't do this, not even in V6 form. I was kinda surprised. The engine also feels a little lazy down low, which is expected since its torque peaks at a highish 5000rpm. Highway passing was adequate, but again not what I am used to.
Exactly my feeling. I'm used to going from 65-80 in a flash with just a stab of my foot. Final impressions: I thought the 6 to be a very nice ride. Definitely would recommend this car over a Camcord or Altima. I don't know about recommending it over a Passat, but I think the Passat buyer should definitely consider it though. I was actually impressed with the car, way to go Mazda!
I wish VW would throw 17s and a sport suspension on the 1.8T Passat. Even though it makes less power than a 6, it'd have more of that torque we've gotten so used to.
Good review Vocus. I pretty much agree with everything you wrote...though the handling of the 6 for my tastes wasn't as raw (that swaybar issue) as I prefer.
I'm pretty close to writing off the 6 as an option at this point. The power and handling issues might be too much to put up with.
There are a few mazda dealers in our area that are not accepting the S-plan on the maz6. We have been honoring the S-plan and E-plan on the mazda6 from the get go, it is a volume product.....of course the RX-8 is a different story.
Hmm. I only came across this in California before, but the large rental fleets in Ohio are carrying stuff besides the usual Fords, GMs and Chryslers. I dropped off a Buick Century at the Columbus airport and noticed that Hertz and Enterprise also offer Toyotas (Camry, Corolla), Mistubishis (Galant, Mirage), Nissans (Sentra, Altima, Maxima) and Mazdas (626, Protege). It's good to see this happening outside of CA, as I don't like most Chrysler products (highly shaped glass gives me eyestrain) or Ford or GM (handling is too soft or controls are weird, like in that Buick...I was never sure I had my headlights on the entire time I had it).
I definitely like the styling of the 6. Just wish it had more power is all....
Ditto. I can fix the handling with a swaybar but the car's lack of torque is not a quick fix. Maybe an MPS Supercharged version is coming...280 hp and 250+ lb-ft of torque would be nice. Price it at about 27-28k loaded and you'd have a screaming deal (25-26k before ttl).
Absolutely positively you can not touch anything nearing new, luxurious and powerful (265+ hp) for lower than 28k.
I've driven every car under 40k and the pickings are really slim. The Mazda6 is a winner, save for its power problems. With a decent torquey engine the 6 would be a massive steal.
A quick look around the dial: Altima...power, no luxury. Max...power, luxury, miserable handling and style. Accord...power, no style, bland roadfeel. Camry...nothing. Passat...decent power, decent handling, great luxury, no reliability. Ford, GM, Mopar, Mitsu, Subaru, Acura...nothing.
The Mazda6 offers style, handling and some luxury. If only it had the gumption...
Don't forget that the most new engines come alive only after they loosen up (get completely broken-in.) And the difference could be quite dramatic. Your comparisons aren't legitimate unless the cars you compare have similar mileage on their clocks and were driven in the same manner during the brake-in period.
I see a few people complaining about a lack of power in the 6. Even with the AT I4, the 6 should still get up to highway speed fairly well and hold its own.
Now vocus and blueguydotcom are complaining about lack of power.
Vocus: Like your former PRO, mine is an AT 2001 ES. I am always the first off the line in the city and I rarely take the PRO above 3000RPMs - this car pulls well! I can understand there's a BIG difference b/w the 2.0 Mazda and 1.8T your Jetta has, but I find the 2.0 to be a respectable engine.
I also drove a 2001 Accord DX AT I4 and that car had enough "oomph" from the 160HP engine, even with the extra mass and being AT-equipped.
I also drove a 92 and 99 Maxima with that 3.0 V6 engine that was rated one of the best ever for many years, so I know the difference b/w 130HP and 190HP. I just don't see why this absession with HP comes from.
Question: How much power is necessary? I find the PRO's 2.0 plenty and I'm VERY satisfied with it. My PRO has been at 100mph a few times and is regularily driven at 85-90mph at least 1-2/week...
You said a while back that you had details for pricing in Canada and that you'd post it if someone asked. Well I'm asking. Could you post it, please?
I've been out of the country for a week and was expecting to come back and see some 6s on the lot. Disappointed that the Jan 15th date was not accurate.
I hope that more manuals are slotted for Canada. If I have to wait 3 months and then not even get my choice of a colour I'll simply buy something else (TSX maybe)
I don't know about your Protege, but from mine I remembered a general lack of power when accelerating from a stop. The engine was also a little rough when nearing redline, and sounded very thrashy at 5000rpm (which is where it was at 90mph, let alone 100mph).
And that's just it, you said adequate power. I don't want adequate, I want ferocious!
Hey, a guy I know who works at a dealer here in Montreal says they're getting tons of calls about the 6, so maybe they'll do well when they go on sale. He said re. the wagon and coupe he's heard December for Canada.
Vocus and BlueGuy are very vocal about their feelings of the 6's lack of power. According to their profiles, both are driving VW's. Do either of you own a 6?
If not, you've both lived with a VW and merely test-driven the 6. Big difference. I discount your complaints of power deficit on that basis.
Why? You're used to the power band the way the VW delivers it. How can you complain that the 6 is underpowered when the VW V6 stops at 200hp and for all intents and purposes matches torque? I'd think you'd be screaming for more VW power rather than for more power in a car you don't own.
I also think that what you're experiencing are the variations between the VW's power delivery and the M6's. I drove the V6 Passat prior to driving a 6 and thought it a complete dog just as soon as I started played with the engine. Very unispired. I even drove it several times because I liked the car overall and couldn't believe all the rave reviews I'd heard.
Motorcycles gives a good analogy. Learn to ride a good twin and you're used to the power band. Get on an inline four of similar displacement, and the power is somewhere else entirely. The I4 is a pig down low and makes all its power up high. Ride and I4 like a twin and it will NOT get out of its own way. Ride it like and I4, and in many cases, it smokes the twin. It's a symptom of engine design and tuning.
Actually, both of us 1.8Ts, not V6s. I agree that the Passat V6 is a total dog, I have driven one. The 1.8T is a different animal. I have 30 more hp than Blueguy, and he even said that the 6 felt slow to him.
I was comparing the 2 cars, and if I feel the 6 isn't adequate on a test drive for me, how would I find out otherwise? I surely wouldn't buy a car which I had a complaint about on a test drive, right?
Furthermore, the 6 didn't have the room I need to fit me comfortably. So it would definitely be off any list.
"The 1.8T is a different animal. I have 30 more hp than Blueguy, and he even said that the 6 felt slow to him."
Well, the 5sp manual Mazda6 S is faster than a Jetta 1.8T with a 5sp manual. The reason why the 6 feels underpowered down low is because your 1.8Ts have most of their power down low. Just when the V6 in the Mazda starts screaming, your 1.8Ts are wheezing and running out of breath. Different power bands. Don't get me wrong, I don't like super peaky engines, but the Mazda6 S feels just fine. Not even close to as peaky as my old Integra VTEC.
Some favor low-rpm pull, others need more revving, an example is the Honda S2000, very low-end torque, but it does similar 0-60 times as a V6 car. If you drove it like a V6, and never run the engine above 4000 rpm, you'd think it drives like a civic.
I also drove a 92 and 99 Maxima with that 3.0 V6 engine that was rated one of the best ever for many years, so I know the difference b/w 130HP and 190HP. I just don't see why this absession with HP comes from.
It's not HP, it's torque. Vocus and I are used to full torque from 1950 rpm to 5000. The 6 doesn't pull instantly from anywhere in the low range. I'll take 400 lb-ft of torque at 2000 k and 160 HP any day over 400 hp and 150 lb-ft torque at 5k rpm.
Question: How much power is necessary? I find the PRO's 2.0 plenty and I'm VERY satisfied with it.
How much? You can never have too many friends or too much power. Most importantly though is the ability to pull strongly from any gear. If I'm at 65, I better be able to hit 80 within a few seconds.
My PRO has been at 100mph a few times and is regularily driven at 85-90mph at least 1-2/week...
I hit 90+ pretty much every time I drive the car on the freeway - figure 2-3 times a day, though I tend to cruise around 80-85. I'd go faster if the Jetta 1.8T weren't so darn loud at those speeds (4k rpm at 90 mph).
BTW, someone mentioned our test drives of the 6 and how we probably weren't "used" to driving a car with a lack of low-end power. That's somewhat true, but given that the 6s' engine redlines so early, it's not like driving a VTEC sewing machine car either. For the 6S to develop power consistently you need to keep the revs high but the lack of a stratospheric tach range makes that near impossible.
One more thing the V6 in the Passat is an outright joke. The car's near dead with it from my experience.
I'm in the east end of Ottawa and that's under 90 minutes from Montreal. Will the guy you know at the dealership offer any kind of a deal? I'd be willing to buy in Montreal if the price and selection were better than what I could get here.
First, Mazda expects less than 1/4 of sales to be V-6's, if I remember correctly.
Probably true. What's your point? There's a reason BMW's selling close to 70k inline 6 powered 3 Series sedans, Infiniti moved 30k V6-powered G35s in just 10 months, Nissan sold 98k V6-powered Maximas, Acura sold 60k 3.2 TLs in 2002 and Nissan moved at the minimum 30k 3.5 liter Altimas (out of 200k sold - Nissan predicted 20% would be V6 models). There's a market for performance oriented sedans with 6 clyinders...
Second, if we end up at war with Iraq and gasoline goes to, say, $3 a gallon, it will be almost impossible to sell ANY powerful car at any price.
A Mazda6i gets 32 mpg (1400 a year fuel cost at $3 over 15k miles), a Mazda6s gets 27 ($1660 over a year) and a BMW 330i with auto gets 27 mpg, manual gets 30 mpg. VW's VR6 pulls 29 mpg and the 1.8T nets 31 mpg. Nissan's VQ pulls a dismal 26 mpg. The Acura TL Type-S gets 29 mpg too. The Accord V6 nets 30 mpg. Guess maybe those old powerful engines aren't that bad.
Sure we could all drive a prius...but I'd hope a gas crunch will encourage carmakers to really push forward on hybrids (electric/hydraulic) so we can snag performance and high mileage.
After 4 test drives (2AT and 2MT), I'm going to pick up my blue 6S (AT, Sport, Comfort, Bose, Moonroof, Homelink) on Thursday. I'd been debating on ordering a MT and waiting the 10-12 weeks, or going for the AT and getting it now. I drove an AT today and fooled around with "manual mode" and was pleasantly suprised. It downshifted very nicely for passing and I found it quite fun!
Next I drove a MT 4 cyl. to see how I liked the shifter. I'm about 5'6", and with the seat in a good driving position relative to the wheel and controls, the clutch pedal seemed too close, and the distance needed to engage it seemed much farther than in my Miata. The longer throw when changing gears bothered me as well. Perhaps the Miata has spoiled me with it's almost "joy stick" like feel and short throws, but the shifter in the 6 just didn't seem fun.
The salesman let me take the AT to my house to make sure my rather steep driveway wouldn't pose a problem with the front spoiler, so I got another nice 40 minutes behind the wheel without him. It really does ride beautifully over rather substantial road bumps and the highway ride was wonderfully quiet and smooth.
I may miss the Miata this spring when the weather turns nice, but I don't think I'm going to miss the shifting, harsh jolts over road bumps, 4000 RPM at 70 MPH, or installing snow tires every winter and changing back in the spring.
After Thursday, it's a smooth comfortable ride!
Thanks to all of you for all your excellent input!
You aren't going to find too many cars that have full torque from 1950-5000 rpms and they all come with low boost turbochargers. The 7000 rpm redline in the Mazda6 is plenty high for a 6 cyl. Yeah, your 1.8Ts pull really well from 1950-5000 rpms, but they hit a brick wall after that. I've driven one and they crap out a little after 5000 rpms. Very diesel-like, but much smoother. Why do they even have 7000 rpm redlines? The Mazda6 S zings all the way to redline (and beyond if you're not careful) and sounds really good doing it. I was impressed by the low-end punch of the 1.8T; it didn't feel like a 4 cyl, but it still sounded like one. I like the Mazda6 S engine better though. It sounded so sweet that I couldn't keep my foot off the floor......and it's faster than a 1.8T Jetta.
I realized I forgot the 6 brochure I had at the dealer.
I remember the options are broken in this manner:
GS I4 AT or MT, GFX Package, Other Package I Can't Remember GT V6 AT or MT, GFX Package, Other Package I Can't Remember
I know the I4 5spd is $24.xxx and the I4 5 spd w/GFX was $28.XXX if I remember correctly. The most expensive one was the loaded V6 AT, w/GFX, Sunroof, leather, etc for $32.XXX or $34.XXX.
Better call:
Mazda Canada Customer Relations at 1-800-263-4680
to really find out, or drop by your Mazda dealer. They had this photocopied pink sheet at the end of the brochure w/only the prices. No interest rates were available, but I suspect 4.9%/48 mths financing...
"Second, if we end up at war with Iraq and gasoline goes to, say, $3 a gallon, it will be almost impossible to sell ANY powerful car at any price."
This isn't going to happen. Gas prices spiked a bit during the Gulf war and will again if hostilities break out, but nobody saw anything like $3 a gallon in 1991. There is NO reason for it. Some stations tried in Cleveland and the Mayor ordered those places to reduce their pricing or shutdown. It will be the same again.
Besides - the vast majority of our oil comes from South America and would be unaffected by a war with Iraq. A great deal of the at-the-pump pricing will be opportunists raping the consumer and not outright cost increases.
As for my other post - I'm glad it was taken in the correct light. I was concerned it might come across as b!tching.
Much like my motorcycle example, the comparison of the 1.8 VW in comparison to the V6 Mazda holds. They make power in two completely different areas. Much like the twin vs. I4 comparo, you've got to keep an I4 (or the V6) on the boil to keep it making power. With the v6, you'll get to know the shifter really well, but you're rewarded handsomely for your efforts.
They are coming from the same factory, but the Canadian models have different colours available, based on the Mazda6 brochure one of the local dealers gave me.
US gets Lapis Blue metallic, Canada: Sonic Blue US gets Speed Yellow, Canada: Canary Yellow US gets Performance White, Canada: Glacier White US gets Steel Gray, Canada: Dark Grey Canada doesn't have the Sepang Green...
I wonder if the colours are really different, although I'm sure I've seen Sonic Blue and Canary Yellow mentioned, maybe on the Protege boards...
FYI, Motoring 2003, a well received automobile review TV show in Canada, named the Mazda 6 their choice for Car of the Year. Lets all give the 6 a big hand. Woohoo!
I just remembered that I have a CDN brochure too. The colours do look the same as the US ones. If you look at the Nissan Sentra, every colour has a different name in Canada than in the US. It's actually quite funny. Cappucino or Iced Cappucino, you make the call. Just some marketing scheme. Cloud white in the US, Arctic White in Canada?.........PLEASE!!
Just a few comments to catch up with your posts...
I have 6i MT, ~900 miles on the odometer. The engine really picked up after the first 600 miles. It's not a torque monster down low, but that's what gives the car its charactor- you need to finesse it a little. This is something I look for in a car, and you probably do not.
Anyway, the charactor of the engines is the very reason why you owe it to yourselves to drive the manual. If you want to get-up-and-go, launch from over 3000rpm, simple as that. For Vocus, since you clearly stated you didn't want a manual, at least Mazda made all the autos easy to downshift and get it into the powerband on the highway. That doesn't help you for stop-and-go city traffic though, I guess.
So, speaking of traffic and RPMs, guess what? I'm still averaging over 30mpg in HEAVY CITY TRAFFIC (DC beltway). I do hard launches often, shifting at 5000+ rpm from 1st to 2nd, then to a cruising gear- 4th or 5th. When I'm not having fun (re: when I'm in traffic), I almost always keep the engine below 2000rpm, and have gotten 30+ mpg because of it (be aware- my first tank, while I was breaking in the engine and getting used to the clutch, was roughly 23-24mpg)
hey you guys aren't even talking about serious power.
180HP? That's nothing.
I like 240HP or more. And torque 250 lbs*ft or more.
Currently my TL-S only develops 230 lbs*ft torque and that makes me miss my Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with 280 lbs*ft torque or Chrysler 300M with 255lbs*ft torque.
If I ever get a Mazda6, I will wait a while 'till they start putting more powerful engines into them. I just have a feeling that after 1-2 years of production they will do that.
So, everyone who's bought a '6 seems to have gotten comments while filling up at the gas station or looks from fellow drivers while cruising. I had not- at least not from someone I didn't already know.
Until finally I was driving home one night, creeping into an intersection waiting to turn left. A supped-up Focus hatch comes from the opposite direction and flips its right turn signal on to turn right. Seizing the moment (and wanting to have some fun), I revved and launched. Initially, the Focus and I started pretty much side-by-side, only I was at a stand-still. In a second I had already passed him, and that's when I he cut over a lane (road is three lanes wide) and gunned it. I shifted slightly past the redline, and didn't let off until I hit 60 in 2nd (which also comes just passed the red).
Let me just say, the 6i is pretty darn fast, even if launching takes a little finesse. The engine sounds SWEET when broken in- it makes you want to downshift just to hear it.
Anyway, once I hit 60mph, the fun was over, and I shifted into 4th to let the engine slow me down to a more suitable speed. Once I did that, the Focus, which I had seen in the rear-view obviously trying to keep up since I left him, soon comes roaring by, passing me, but slowly enough to give a huge wave (or thumbs up, or middle finger) before kindly signalling and getting into my empty lane. Cops are usually out, I don't (and didn't mean to, I was just having fun) race, so I let it be.
OK, so it's not much of a glory story, but I still had to share with someone. My wife wouldn't appreciate it.
But to think- acceleration isn't even what this car is all about. Did I mention I've been getting over 30mpg city?
Comments
fowler3
Time will tell (2-3 weeks left).
Dinu
My next test drive will be of a 6s and I will give it more than just a quick glance for interior features.
I'm betting that Consumer Reports (yes I know many people have a dim view of CR) will rate the 6 close to the best, if not the best of the mid-size sedans.
Interior: I thought the interior was very nicely done, the doors close with a solid thunk and it feels very nice in there. Textures are pleasing to the touch and feel. Things I didn't like: I didn't really fit in the car. I am 6'3 and about 270lbs. When I adjusted the seat for a comfortable driving position (all the way back, moderate rake to the seatback, wheel all the way out) my hair slightly grazed the roof. My hair's buzzcut now, so this would be a problem if it were longer. Anyway, another thing that I noticed is that in bright sunlight, the labels on the center stack controls can be hard to see due to the silver backround. I couldn't get used to looking in a different location to see what radio station/temp I was choosing, but I'm sure one would grow accustomed to it after awhile. I was able to see the radio/temp display even with polarized sunglasses on, which is very good (the ones in my Jetta wash out in certain angles). I appreciated the steering wheel radio controls on the car, which have more functions than the ones my VW has. I also liked the instrument lighting alot as well.
I noticed the doors were still unlocked, and surprised there was no automatic locking function. This is a personal preference again though, but I am spoiled by having it for so long now. The seat also grew uncomfortable on the test ride, but I didn't really spend enough time in the car to get comfortable and fiddle with the controls. Then onto the road it was...
Driving impressions: The steering has a very Germanic feel to it, which I did like alot. The car took curves with grace, and the brakes were very strong as well. Pretty much tied with the Jetta there, and also has less body lean too in hard cornering.
The power was another story. I am used to the raw, brute-feeling power of a turbo with 180hp, which surges you forward at the touch of the pedal. The 6 doesn't do this, not even in V6 form. I was kinda surprised. The engine also feels a little lazy down low, which is expected since its torque peaks at a highish 5000rpm. Highway passing was adequate, but again not what I am used to. The engine also slightly vibrated the floorboard under my left foot, which I didn't like. I did, however, love the growl of it when revved up.
Walk around: When we got back, the guy opened the hood and trunk. I loved the seatback releases, right inside the trunk. Very convenient. I sat in the back seat too, with the driver's seat adjusted to fit me. My head touched the roof, and there wasn't enough room for my legs. He suggested one without a sunroof, but it's something I've always had and don't wanna forego. The back seat didn't look or feel much bigger than mine is, and I thought it would be larger. No problem for me, as I have no kids and don't carry many people anyway.
Final impressions: I thought the 6 to be a very nice ride. Definitely would recommend this car over a Camcord or Altima. I don't know about recommending it over a Passat, but I think the Passat buyer should definitely consider it though. I was actually impressed with the car, way to go Mazda!
I'm surprised that your cloth seats could be replaced with leather by the dealer. So did they give you brand new seats in leather and take your 'old' cloth ones in exchange or re-cover your existing cloth ones. This sounds like a good way to get the non-heated leather seats option
Any more hints on finding more specifics on these aftermarket leather seats than "Classic Soft Trim"?
Beautiful car! Interior color good contrast.
I'm waiting to see what a 6i/MT in Sepang with beige looks like.
Thanks.
If you can wait a month or two, factory ordering allows you to get all the options you want, and none that you don't. Plus you get it with less than 10 miles on the odometer.
We also looked at gray and that too probably would have looked nice with our black exterior, but we were trying to matched the leather on the shift knob (you can take the material out to the car you want and compare, or choose a color YOU think will look good). You don't have to choose the same color of the cloth material that's already in the car.
When a dealer replaces the cloth material, he replaces all of the areas that has cloth with new leather material. "Classic Soft Trim" IMO is probably a copyrighted symbol so I doubt if it's printed on any other material than the one we bought, and this was the only way I knew how to identify it to others (however I could be wrong).
My point is, you need to look at the leather samples that YOUR dealer has and decide if you would like it or not, or if it's softer (or not)than the leather that comes from the factory.
Thanks for the comment about the contrast between my car and it's interior, we like it too, and we're very satisfied with how it came out.
Leather trim is made by a company in Austin Texas called Classic Soft Trim. Their web site is www.classicsofttrim.com and their tel# is 1-800-613-6004. They have 42 colors to choose from in smooth, pleated or perforated surfaces. There's nation-wide installation and all the dealers should know about them. CST has a 3 yr warrantee. They have moonroofs and wood/aluminum dashes too.
MyPhantom6, did you get the perforated seating surfaces, smooth surface door panels?
Thanks.
Your balanced and honest assessment of the 6 is one of the better posts that I have read. Very much appreciate your input. Though I have read other posts like yours in this forum, they have been few and far between.
I really did like the 6s, it was a pretty nice ride. A little more head room and more low-end power, and it would be the perfect car. I much prefer it over the Camcord though.
Exactly my feeling. I'm used to going from 65-80 in a flash with just a stab of my foot.
Final impressions: I thought the 6 to be a very nice ride. Definitely would recommend this car over a Camcord or Altima. I don't know about recommending it over a Passat, but I think the Passat buyer should definitely consider it though. I was actually impressed with the car, way to go Mazda!
I wish VW would throw 17s and a sport suspension on the 1.8T Passat. Even though it makes less power than a 6, it'd have more of that torque we've gotten so used to.
Good review Vocus. I pretty much agree with everything you wrote...though the handling of the 6 for my tastes wasn't as raw (that swaybar issue) as I prefer.
I'm pretty close to writing off the 6 as an option at this point. The power and handling issues might be too much to put up with.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp
I definitely like the styling of the 6. Just wish it had more power is all....
Ditto. I can fix the handling with a swaybar but the car's lack of torque is not a quick fix. Maybe an MPS Supercharged version is coming...280 hp and 250+ lb-ft of torque would be nice. Price it at about 27-28k loaded and you'd have a screaming deal (25-26k before ttl).
But I am sure the MPS would fix the problem. Thing is, you can get great power for alot lower than 28K elsewhere...
I've driven every car under 40k and the pickings are really slim. The Mazda6 is a winner, save for its power problems. With a decent torquey engine the 6 would be a massive steal.
A quick look around the dial:
Altima...power, no luxury.
Max...power, luxury, miserable handling and style.
Accord...power, no style, bland roadfeel.
Camry...nothing.
Passat...decent power, decent handling, great luxury, no reliability.
Ford, GM, Mopar, Mitsu, Subaru, Acura...nothing.
The Mazda6 offers style, handling and some luxury. If only it had the gumption...
And the difference could be quite dramatic.
Your comparisons aren't legitimate unless the cars you compare have similar mileage on their clocks and were driven in the same manner during the brake-in period.
(hehe, my TL-S blew its tranny after 6,000 miles
Vehicle - Units Sold - % Compared to 2001
CARS
Civic - 68.960 - +4.1%
Cavalier - 53.614 - +9.2
Protege - 48.872 - +5.5
Sunfire - 46.036 - +11.2
Corolla - 44.790 - +14.4
Focus - 40.228 - -3.7
Accord - 30.060 - +5.9
Camry - 28.967 - +34.7
Accent - 26.538 - +4.8
Jetta - 23.984 - +2.9
TRUCKS
Caravan - 83.588 - -0.6
C/K/Silverado/Sierra - 81.695 - +2.6
F-Series - 67.809 - 3.4
Venture/Montana/Silhouette - 63.533 - +7.0
Windstar - 37.428 - -6.7
Ram P/U - 32.950 - +26.2
Explorer - 24.218 - +16.6
CR-V - 21.245 - +61.7
Dakota - 17.152 - +9.5
Escape - 15.945 - +4.7
The 6 is not there b/c it's not being sold here (yet).
Dinu
Now vocus and blueguydotcom are complaining about lack of power.
Vocus: Like your former PRO, mine is an AT 2001 ES. I am always the first off the line in the city and I rarely take the PRO above 3000RPMs - this car pulls well! I can understand there's a BIG difference b/w the 2.0 Mazda and 1.8T your Jetta has, but I find the 2.0 to be a respectable engine.
I also drove a 2001 Accord DX AT I4 and that car had enough "oomph" from the 160HP engine, even with the extra mass and being AT-equipped.
I also drove a 92 and 99 Maxima with that 3.0 V6 engine that was rated one of the best ever for many years, so I know the difference b/w 130HP and 190HP. I just don't see why this absession with HP comes from.
Question: How much power is necessary? I find the PRO's 2.0 plenty and I'm VERY satisfied with it. My PRO has been at 100mph a few times and is regularily driven at 85-90mph at least 1-2/week...
Dinu
I've been out of the country for a week and was expecting to come back and see some 6s on the lot. Disappointed that the Jan 15th date was not accurate.
I hope that more manuals are slotted for Canada. If I have to wait 3 months and then not even get my choice of a colour I'll simply buy something else (TSX maybe)
And that's just it, you said adequate power. I don't want adequate, I want ferocious!
If not, you've both lived with a VW and merely test-driven the 6. Big difference. I discount your complaints of power deficit on that basis.
Why? You're used to the power band the way the VW delivers it. How can you complain that the 6 is underpowered when the VW V6 stops at 200hp and for all intents and purposes matches torque? I'd think you'd be screaming for more VW power rather than for more power in a car you don't own.
I also think that what you're experiencing are the variations between the VW's power delivery and the M6's. I drove the V6 Passat prior to driving a 6 and thought it a complete dog just as soon as I started played with the engine. Very unispired. I even drove it several times because I liked the car overall and couldn't believe all the rave reviews I'd heard.
Motorcycles gives a good analogy. Learn to ride a good twin and you're used to the power band. Get on an inline four of similar displacement, and the power is somewhere else entirely. The I4 is a pig down low and makes all its power up high. Ride and I4 like a twin and it will NOT get out of its own way. Ride it like and I4, and in many cases, it smokes the twin. It's a symptom of engine design and tuning.
I was comparing the 2 cars, and if I feel the 6 isn't adequate on a test drive for me, how would I find out otherwise? I surely wouldn't buy a car which I had a complaint about on a test drive, right?
Furthermore, the 6 didn't have the room I need to fit me comfortably. So it would definitely be off any list.
Well, the 5sp manual Mazda6 S is faster than a Jetta 1.8T with a 5sp manual. The reason why the 6 feels underpowered down low is because your 1.8Ts have most of their power down low. Just when the V6 in the Mazda starts screaming, your 1.8Ts are wheezing and running out of breath. Different power bands. Don't get me wrong, I don't like super peaky engines, but the Mazda6 S feels just fine. Not even close to as peaky as my old Integra VTEC.
It's not HP, it's torque. Vocus and I are used to full torque from 1950 rpm to 5000. The 6 doesn't pull instantly from anywhere in the low range. I'll take 400 lb-ft of torque at 2000 k and 160 HP any day over 400 hp and 150 lb-ft torque at 5k rpm.
Question: How much power is necessary? I find the PRO's 2.0 plenty and I'm VERY satisfied with it.
How much? You can never have too many friends or too much power. Most importantly though is the ability to pull strongly from any gear. If I'm at 65, I better be able to hit 80 within a few seconds.
My PRO has been at 100mph a few times and is regularily driven at 85-90mph at least 1-2/week...
I hit 90+ pretty much every time I drive the car on the freeway - figure 2-3 times a day, though I tend to cruise around 80-85. I'd go faster if the Jetta 1.8T weren't so darn loud at those speeds (4k rpm at 90 mph).
BTW, someone mentioned our test drives of the 6 and how we probably weren't "used" to driving a car with a lack of low-end power. That's somewhat true, but given that the 6s' engine redlines so early, it's not like driving a VTEC sewing machine car either. For the 6S to develop power consistently you need to keep the revs high but the lack of a stratospheric tach range makes that near impossible.
One more thing the V6 in the Passat is an outright joke. The car's near dead with it from my experience.
First, Mazda expects less than 1/4 of sales to be V-6's, if I remember correctly.
Second, if we end up at war with Iraq and gasoline goes to, say, $3 a gallon, it will be almost impossible to sell ANY powerful car at any price.
Some of us were around during the last oil embargo and remember it all too well.
Yes, to both questions.
Probably true. What's your point? There's a reason BMW's selling close to 70k inline 6 powered 3 Series sedans, Infiniti moved 30k V6-powered G35s in just 10 months, Nissan sold 98k V6-powered Maximas, Acura sold 60k 3.2 TLs in 2002 and Nissan moved at the minimum 30k 3.5 liter Altimas (out of 200k sold - Nissan predicted 20% would be V6 models). There's a market for performance oriented sedans with 6 clyinders...
Second, if we end up at war with Iraq and gasoline goes to, say, $3 a gallon, it will be almost impossible to sell ANY powerful car at any price.
A Mazda6i gets 32 mpg (1400 a year fuel cost at $3 over 15k miles), a Mazda6s gets 27 ($1660 over a year) and a BMW 330i with auto gets 27 mpg, manual gets 30 mpg. VW's VR6 pulls 29 mpg and the 1.8T nets 31 mpg. Nissan's VQ pulls a dismal 26 mpg. The Acura TL Type-S gets 29 mpg too. The Accord V6 nets 30 mpg. Guess maybe those old powerful engines aren't that bad.
Sure we could all drive a prius...but I'd hope a gas crunch will encourage carmakers to really push forward on hybrids (electric/hydraulic) so we can snag performance and high mileage.
Next I drove a MT 4 cyl. to see how I liked the shifter. I'm about 5'6", and with the seat in a good driving position relative to the wheel and controls, the clutch pedal seemed too close, and the distance needed to engage it seemed much farther than in my Miata. The longer throw when changing gears bothered me as well. Perhaps the Miata has spoiled me with it's almost "joy stick" like feel and short throws, but the shifter in the 6 just didn't seem fun.
The salesman let me take the AT to my house to make sure my rather steep driveway wouldn't pose a problem with the front spoiler, so I got another nice 40 minutes behind the wheel without him. It really does ride beautifully over rather substantial road bumps and the highway ride was wonderfully quiet and smooth.
I may miss the Miata this spring when the weather turns nice, but I don't think I'm going to miss the shifting, harsh jolts over road bumps, 4000 RPM at 70 MPH, or installing snow tires every winter and changing back in the spring.
After Thursday, it's a smooth comfortable ride!
Thanks to all of you for all your excellent input!
I remember the options are broken in this manner:
GS I4 AT or MT, GFX Package, Other Package I Can't Remember
GT V6 AT or MT, GFX Package, Other Package I Can't Remember
I know the I4 5spd is $24.xxx and the I4 5 spd w/GFX was $28.XXX if I remember correctly. The most expensive one was the loaded V6 AT, w/GFX, Sunroof, leather, etc for $32.XXX or $34.XXX.
Better call:
Mazda Canada Customer Relations at 1-800-263-4680
to really find out, or drop by your Mazda dealer. They had this photocopied pink sheet at the end of the brochure w/only the prices. No interest rates were available, but I suspect 4.9%/48 mths financing...
Dinu
This isn't going to happen. Gas prices spiked a bit during the Gulf war and will again if hostilities break out, but nobody saw anything like $3 a gallon in 1991. There is NO reason for it. Some stations tried in Cleveland and the Mayor ordered those places to reduce their pricing or shutdown. It will be the same again.
Besides - the vast majority of our oil comes from South America and would be unaffected by a war with Iraq. A great deal of the at-the-pump pricing will be opportunists raping the consumer and not outright cost increases.
As for my other post - I'm glad it was taken in the correct light. I was concerned it might come across as b!tching.
Much like my motorcycle example, the comparison of the 1.8 VW in comparison to the V6 Mazda holds. They make power in two completely different areas. Much like the twin vs. I4 comparo, you've got to keep an I4 (or the V6) on the boil to keep it making power. With the v6, you'll get to know the shifter really well, but you're rewarded handsomely for your efforts.
And no one knows what may happen to the price of oil, tomorrow or next week, even.
Be that as it may, the "I want power and tons of it" faction is a very small faction of buyers. Mazda took this into account when it sized the V6.
US gets Lapis Blue metallic, Canada: Sonic Blue
US gets Speed Yellow, Canada: Canary Yellow
US gets Performance White, Canada: Glacier White
US gets Steel Gray, Canada: Dark Grey
Canada doesn't have the Sepang Green...
I wonder if the colours are really different, although I'm sure I've seen Sonic Blue and Canary Yellow mentioned, maybe on the Protege boards...
Me, I'm still waiting for the hatchback!!
I have 6i MT, ~900 miles on the odometer. The engine really picked up after the first 600 miles. It's not a torque monster down low, but that's what gives the car its charactor- you need to finesse it a little. This is something I look for in a car, and you probably do not.
Anyway, the charactor of the engines is the very reason why you owe it to yourselves to drive the manual. If you want to get-up-and-go, launch from over 3000rpm, simple as that. For Vocus, since you clearly stated you didn't want a manual, at least Mazda made all the autos easy to downshift and get it into the powerband on the highway. That doesn't help you for stop-and-go city traffic though, I guess.
So, speaking of traffic and RPMs, guess what? I'm still averaging over 30mpg in HEAVY CITY TRAFFIC (DC beltway). I do hard launches often, shifting at 5000+ rpm from 1st to 2nd, then to a cruising gear- 4th or 5th. When I'm not having fun (re: when I'm in traffic), I almost always keep the engine below 2000rpm, and have gotten 30+ mpg because of it (be aware- my first tank, while I was breaking in the engine and getting used to the clutch, was roughly 23-24mpg)
Gotta love manual transmissions.
180HP? That's nothing.
I like 240HP or more. And torque 250 lbs*ft or more.
Currently my TL-S only develops 230 lbs*ft torque and that makes me miss my Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with 280 lbs*ft torque or Chrysler 300M with 255lbs*ft torque.
If I ever get a Mazda6, I will wait a while 'till they start putting more powerful engines into them. I just have a feeling that after 1-2 years of production they will do that.
Until finally I was driving home one night, creeping into an intersection waiting to turn left. A supped-up Focus hatch comes from the opposite direction and flips its right turn signal on to turn right. Seizing the moment (and wanting to have some fun), I revved and launched. Initially, the Focus and I started pretty much side-by-side, only I was at a stand-still. In a second I had already passed him, and that's when I he cut over a lane (road is three lanes wide) and gunned it. I shifted slightly past the redline, and didn't let off until I hit 60 in 2nd (which also comes just passed the red).
Let me just say, the 6i is pretty darn fast, even if launching takes a little finesse. The engine sounds SWEET when broken in- it makes you want to downshift just to hear it.
Anyway, once I hit 60mph, the fun was over, and I shifted into 4th to let the engine slow me down to a more suitable speed. Once I did that, the Focus, which I had seen in the rear-view obviously trying to keep up since I left him, soon comes roaring by, passing me, but slowly enough to give a huge wave (or thumbs up, or middle finger) before kindly signalling and getting into my empty lane. Cops are usually out, I don't (and didn't mean to, I was just having fun) race, so I let it be.
OK, so it's not much of a glory story, but I still had to share with someone. My wife wouldn't appreciate it.
But to think- acceleration isn't even what this car is all about. Did I mention I've been getting over 30mpg city?