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fowler3
Time will tell (2-3 weeks left).
Dinu
My next test drive will be of a 6s and I will give it more than just a quick glance for interior features.
I'm betting that Consumer Reports (yes I know many people have a dim view of CR) will rate the 6 close to the best, if not the best of the mid-size sedans.
Interior: I thought the interior was very nicely done, the doors close with a solid thunk and it feels very nice in there. Textures are pleasing to the touch and feel. Things I didn't like: I didn't really fit in the car. I am 6'3 and about 270lbs. When I adjusted the seat for a comfortable driving position (all the way back, moderate rake to the seatback, wheel all the way out) my hair slightly grazed the roof. My hair's buzzcut now, so this would be a problem if it were longer. Anyway, another thing that I noticed is that in bright sunlight, the labels on the center stack controls can be hard to see due to the silver backround. I couldn't get used to looking in a different location to see what radio station/temp I was choosing, but I'm sure one would grow accustomed to it after awhile. I was able to see the radio/temp display even with polarized sunglasses on, which is very good (the ones in my Jetta wash out in certain angles). I appreciated the steering wheel radio controls on the car, which have more functions than the ones my VW has. I also liked the instrument lighting alot as well.
I noticed the doors were still unlocked, and surprised there was no automatic locking function. This is a personal preference again though, but I am spoiled by having it for so long now. The seat also grew uncomfortable on the test ride, but I didn't really spend enough time in the car to get comfortable and fiddle with the controls. Then onto the road it was...
Driving impressions: The steering has a very Germanic feel to it, which I did like alot. The car took curves with grace, and the brakes were very strong as well. Pretty much tied with the Jetta there, and also has less body lean too in hard cornering.
The power was another story. I am used to the raw, brute-feeling power of a turbo with 180hp, which surges you forward at the touch of the pedal. The 6 doesn't do this, not even in V6 form. I was kinda surprised. The engine also feels a little lazy down low, which is expected since its torque peaks at a highish 5000rpm. Highway passing was adequate, but again not what I am used to. The engine also slightly vibrated the floorboard under my left foot, which I didn't like. I did, however, love the growl of it when revved up.
Walk around: When we got back, the guy opened the hood and trunk. I loved the seatback releases, right inside the trunk. Very convenient. I sat in the back seat too, with the driver's seat adjusted to fit me. My head touched the roof, and there wasn't enough room for my legs. He suggested one without a sunroof, but it's something I've always had and don't wanna forego. The back seat didn't look or feel much bigger than mine is, and I thought it would be larger. No problem for me, as I have no kids and don't carry many people anyway.
Final impressions: I thought the 6 to be a very nice ride. Definitely would recommend this car over a Camcord or Altima. I don't know about recommending it over a Passat, but I think the Passat buyer should definitely consider it though. I was actually impressed with the car, way to go Mazda!
I'm surprised that your cloth seats could be replaced with leather by the dealer. So did they give you brand new seats in leather and take your 'old' cloth ones in exchange or re-cover your existing cloth ones. This sounds like a good way to get the non-heated leather seats option
Any more hints on finding more specifics on these aftermarket leather seats than "Classic Soft Trim"?
Beautiful car! Interior color good contrast.
I'm waiting to see what a 6i/MT in Sepang with beige looks like.
Thanks.
If you can wait a month or two, factory ordering allows you to get all the options you want, and none that you don't. Plus you get it with less than 10 miles on the odometer.
We also looked at gray and that too probably would have looked nice with our black exterior, but we were trying to matched the leather on the shift knob (you can take the material out to the car you want and compare, or choose a color YOU think will look good). You don't have to choose the same color of the cloth material that's already in the car.
When a dealer replaces the cloth material, he replaces all of the areas that has cloth with new leather material. "Classic Soft Trim" IMO is probably a copyrighted symbol so I doubt if it's printed on any other material than the one we bought, and this was the only way I knew how to identify it to others (however I could be wrong).
My point is, you need to look at the leather samples that YOUR dealer has and decide if you would like it or not, or if it's softer (or not)than the leather that comes from the factory.
Thanks for the comment about the contrast between my car and it's interior, we like it too, and we're very satisfied with how it came out.
Leather trim is made by a company in Austin Texas called Classic Soft Trim. Their web site is www.classicsofttrim.com and their tel# is 1-800-613-6004. They have 42 colors to choose from in smooth, pleated or perforated surfaces. There's nation-wide installation and all the dealers should know about them. CST has a 3 yr warrantee. They have moonroofs and wood/aluminum dashes too.
MyPhantom6, did you get the perforated seating surfaces, smooth surface door panels?
Thanks.
Your balanced and honest assessment of the 6 is one of the better posts that I have read. Very much appreciate your input. Though I have read other posts like yours in this forum, they have been few and far between.
I really did like the 6s, it was a pretty nice ride. A little more head room and more low-end power, and it would be the perfect car. I much prefer it over the Camcord though.
Exactly my feeling. I'm used to going from 65-80 in a flash with just a stab of my foot.
Final impressions: I thought the 6 to be a very nice ride. Definitely would recommend this car over a Camcord or Altima. I don't know about recommending it over a Passat, but I think the Passat buyer should definitely consider it though. I was actually impressed with the car, way to go Mazda!
I wish VW would throw 17s and a sport suspension on the 1.8T Passat. Even though it makes less power than a 6, it'd have more of that torque we've gotten so used to.
Good review Vocus. I pretty much agree with everything you wrote...though the handling of the 6 for my tastes wasn't as raw (that swaybar issue) as I prefer.
I'm pretty close to writing off the 6 as an option at this point. The power and handling issues might be too much to put up with.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp
I definitely like the styling of the 6. Just wish it had more power is all....
Ditto. I can fix the handling with a swaybar but the car's lack of torque is not a quick fix. Maybe an MPS Supercharged version is coming...280 hp and 250+ lb-ft of torque would be nice. Price it at about 27-28k loaded and you'd have a screaming deal (25-26k before ttl).
But I am sure the MPS would fix the problem. Thing is, you can get great power for alot lower than 28K elsewhere...
I've driven every car under 40k and the pickings are really slim. The Mazda6 is a winner, save for its power problems. With a decent torquey engine the 6 would be a massive steal.
A quick look around the dial:
Altima...power, no luxury.
Max...power, luxury, miserable handling and style.
Accord...power, no style, bland roadfeel.
Camry...nothing.
Passat...decent power, decent handling, great luxury, no reliability.
Ford, GM, Mopar, Mitsu, Subaru, Acura...nothing.
The Mazda6 offers style, handling and some luxury. If only it had the gumption...
And the difference could be quite dramatic.
Your comparisons aren't legitimate unless the cars you compare have similar mileage on their clocks and were driven in the same manner during the brake-in period.
(hehe, my TL-S blew its tranny after 6,000 miles
Vehicle - Units Sold - % Compared to 2001
CARS
Civic - 68.960 - +4.1%
Cavalier - 53.614 - +9.2
Protege - 48.872 - +5.5
Sunfire - 46.036 - +11.2
Corolla - 44.790 - +14.4
Focus - 40.228 - -3.7
Accord - 30.060 - +5.9
Camry - 28.967 - +34.7
Accent - 26.538 - +4.8
Jetta - 23.984 - +2.9
TRUCKS
Caravan - 83.588 - -0.6
C/K/Silverado/Sierra - 81.695 - +2.6
F-Series - 67.809 - 3.4
Venture/Montana/Silhouette - 63.533 - +7.0
Windstar - 37.428 - -6.7
Ram P/U - 32.950 - +26.2
Explorer - 24.218 - +16.6
CR-V - 21.245 - +61.7
Dakota - 17.152 - +9.5
Escape - 15.945 - +4.7
The 6 is not there b/c it's not being sold here (yet).
Dinu
Now vocus and blueguydotcom are complaining about lack of power.
Vocus: Like your former PRO, mine is an AT 2001 ES. I am always the first off the line in the city and I rarely take the PRO above 3000RPMs - this car pulls well! I can understand there's a BIG difference b/w the 2.0 Mazda and 1.8T your Jetta has, but I find the 2.0 to be a respectable engine.
I also drove a 2001 Accord DX AT I4 and that car had enough "oomph" from the 160HP engine, even with the extra mass and being AT-equipped.
I also drove a 92 and 99 Maxima with that 3.0 V6 engine that was rated one of the best ever for many years, so I know the difference b/w 130HP and 190HP. I just don't see why this absession with HP comes from.
Question: How much power is necessary? I find the PRO's 2.0 plenty and I'm VERY satisfied with it. My PRO has been at 100mph a few times and is regularily driven at 85-90mph at least 1-2/week...
Dinu
I've been out of the country for a week and was expecting to come back and see some 6s on the lot. Disappointed that the Jan 15th date was not accurate.
I hope that more manuals are slotted for Canada. If I have to wait 3 months and then not even get my choice of a colour I'll simply buy something else (TSX maybe)
And that's just it, you said adequate power. I don't want adequate, I want ferocious!
If not, you've both lived with a VW and merely test-driven the 6. Big difference. I discount your complaints of power deficit on that basis.
Why? You're used to the power band the way the VW delivers it. How can you complain that the 6 is underpowered when the VW V6 stops at 200hp and for all intents and purposes matches torque? I'd think you'd be screaming for more VW power rather than for more power in a car you don't own.
I also think that what you're experiencing are the variations between the VW's power delivery and the M6's. I drove the V6 Passat prior to driving a 6 and thought it a complete dog just as soon as I started played with the engine. Very unispired. I even drove it several times because I liked the car overall and couldn't believe all the rave reviews I'd heard.
Motorcycles gives a good analogy. Learn to ride a good twin and you're used to the power band. Get on an inline four of similar displacement, and the power is somewhere else entirely. The I4 is a pig down low and makes all its power up high. Ride and I4 like a twin and it will NOT get out of its own way. Ride it like and I4, and in many cases, it smokes the twin. It's a symptom of engine design and tuning.
I was comparing the 2 cars, and if I feel the 6 isn't adequate on a test drive for me, how would I find out otherwise? I surely wouldn't buy a car which I had a complaint about on a test drive, right?
Furthermore, the 6 didn't have the room I need to fit me comfortably. So it would definitely be off any list.
Well, the 5sp manual Mazda6 S is faster than a Jetta 1.8T with a 5sp manual. The reason why the 6 feels underpowered down low is because your 1.8Ts have most of their power down low. Just when the V6 in the Mazda starts screaming, your 1.8Ts are wheezing and running out of breath. Different power bands. Don't get me wrong, I don't like super peaky engines, but the Mazda6 S feels just fine. Not even close to as peaky as my old Integra VTEC.
It's not HP, it's torque. Vocus and I are used to full torque from 1950 rpm to 5000. The 6 doesn't pull instantly from anywhere in the low range. I'll take 400 lb-ft of torque at 2000 k and 160 HP any day over 400 hp and 150 lb-ft torque at 5k rpm.
Question: How much power is necessary? I find the PRO's 2.0 plenty and I'm VERY satisfied with it.
How much? You can never have too many friends or too much power. Most importantly though is the ability to pull strongly from any gear. If I'm at 65, I better be able to hit 80 within a few seconds.
My PRO has been at 100mph a few times and is regularily driven at 85-90mph at least 1-2/week...
I hit 90+ pretty much every time I drive the car on the freeway - figure 2-3 times a day, though I tend to cruise around 80-85. I'd go faster if the Jetta 1.8T weren't so darn loud at those speeds (4k rpm at 90 mph).
BTW, someone mentioned our test drives of the 6 and how we probably weren't "used" to driving a car with a lack of low-end power. That's somewhat true, but given that the 6s' engine redlines so early, it's not like driving a VTEC sewing machine car either. For the 6S to develop power consistently you need to keep the revs high but the lack of a stratospheric tach range makes that near impossible.
One more thing the V6 in the Passat is an outright joke. The car's near dead with it from my experience.
First, Mazda expects less than 1/4 of sales to be V-6's, if I remember correctly.
Second, if we end up at war with Iraq and gasoline goes to, say, $3 a gallon, it will be almost impossible to sell ANY powerful car at any price.
Some of us were around during the last oil embargo and remember it all too well.
Yes, to both questions.
Probably true. What's your point? There's a reason BMW's selling close to 70k inline 6 powered 3 Series sedans, Infiniti moved 30k V6-powered G35s in just 10 months, Nissan sold 98k V6-powered Maximas, Acura sold 60k 3.2 TLs in 2002 and Nissan moved at the minimum 30k 3.5 liter Altimas (out of 200k sold - Nissan predicted 20% would be V6 models). There's a market for performance oriented sedans with 6 clyinders...
Second, if we end up at war with Iraq and gasoline goes to, say, $3 a gallon, it will be almost impossible to sell ANY powerful car at any price.
A Mazda6i gets 32 mpg (1400 a year fuel cost at $3 over 15k miles), a Mazda6s gets 27 ($1660 over a year) and a BMW 330i with auto gets 27 mpg, manual gets 30 mpg. VW's VR6 pulls 29 mpg and the 1.8T nets 31 mpg. Nissan's VQ pulls a dismal 26 mpg. The Acura TL Type-S gets 29 mpg too. The Accord V6 nets 30 mpg. Guess maybe those old powerful engines aren't that bad.
Sure we could all drive a prius...but I'd hope a gas crunch will encourage carmakers to really push forward on hybrids (electric/hydraulic) so we can snag performance and high mileage.
Next I drove a MT 4 cyl. to see how I liked the shifter. I'm about 5'6", and with the seat in a good driving position relative to the wheel and controls, the clutch pedal seemed too close, and the distance needed to engage it seemed much farther than in my Miata. The longer throw when changing gears bothered me as well. Perhaps the Miata has spoiled me with it's almost "joy stick" like feel and short throws, but the shifter in the 6 just didn't seem fun.
The salesman let me take the AT to my house to make sure my rather steep driveway wouldn't pose a problem with the front spoiler, so I got another nice 40 minutes behind the wheel without him. It really does ride beautifully over rather substantial road bumps and the highway ride was wonderfully quiet and smooth.
I may miss the Miata this spring when the weather turns nice, but I don't think I'm going to miss the shifting, harsh jolts over road bumps, 4000 RPM at 70 MPH, or installing snow tires every winter and changing back in the spring.
After Thursday, it's a smooth comfortable ride!
Thanks to all of you for all your excellent input!
I remember the options are broken in this manner:
GS I4 AT or MT, GFX Package, Other Package I Can't Remember
GT V6 AT or MT, GFX Package, Other Package I Can't Remember
I know the I4 5spd is $24.xxx and the I4 5 spd w/GFX was $28.XXX if I remember correctly. The most expensive one was the loaded V6 AT, w/GFX, Sunroof, leather, etc for $32.XXX or $34.XXX.
Better call:
Mazda Canada Customer Relations at 1-800-263-4680
to really find out, or drop by your Mazda dealer. They had this photocopied pink sheet at the end of the brochure w/only the prices. No interest rates were available, but I suspect 4.9%/48 mths financing...
Dinu
This isn't going to happen. Gas prices spiked a bit during the Gulf war and will again if hostilities break out, but nobody saw anything like $3 a gallon in 1991. There is NO reason for it. Some stations tried in Cleveland and the Mayor ordered those places to reduce their pricing or shutdown. It will be the same again.
Besides - the vast majority of our oil comes from South America and would be unaffected by a war with Iraq. A great deal of the at-the-pump pricing will be opportunists raping the consumer and not outright cost increases.
As for my other post - I'm glad it was taken in the correct light. I was concerned it might come across as b!tching.
Much like my motorcycle example, the comparison of the 1.8 VW in comparison to the V6 Mazda holds. They make power in two completely different areas. Much like the twin vs. I4 comparo, you've got to keep an I4 (or the V6) on the boil to keep it making power. With the v6, you'll get to know the shifter really well, but you're rewarded handsomely for your efforts.
And no one knows what may happen to the price of oil, tomorrow or next week, even.
Be that as it may, the "I want power and tons of it" faction is a very small faction of buyers. Mazda took this into account when it sized the V6.
US gets Lapis Blue metallic, Canada: Sonic Blue
US gets Speed Yellow, Canada: Canary Yellow
US gets Performance White, Canada: Glacier White
US gets Steel Gray, Canada: Dark Grey
Canada doesn't have the Sepang Green...
I wonder if the colours are really different, although I'm sure I've seen Sonic Blue and Canary Yellow mentioned, maybe on the Protege boards...
Me, I'm still waiting for the hatchback!!
I have 6i MT, ~900 miles on the odometer. The engine really picked up after the first 600 miles. It's not a torque monster down low, but that's what gives the car its charactor- you need to finesse it a little. This is something I look for in a car, and you probably do not.
Anyway, the charactor of the engines is the very reason why you owe it to yourselves to drive the manual. If you want to get-up-and-go, launch from over 3000rpm, simple as that. For Vocus, since you clearly stated you didn't want a manual, at least Mazda made all the autos easy to downshift and get it into the powerband on the highway. That doesn't help you for stop-and-go city traffic though, I guess.
So, speaking of traffic and RPMs, guess what? I'm still averaging over 30mpg in HEAVY CITY TRAFFIC (DC beltway). I do hard launches often, shifting at 5000+ rpm from 1st to 2nd, then to a cruising gear- 4th or 5th. When I'm not having fun (re: when I'm in traffic), I almost always keep the engine below 2000rpm, and have gotten 30+ mpg because of it (be aware- my first tank, while I was breaking in the engine and getting used to the clutch, was roughly 23-24mpg)
Gotta love manual transmissions.
180HP? That's nothing.
I like 240HP or more. And torque 250 lbs*ft or more.
Currently my TL-S only develops 230 lbs*ft torque and that makes me miss my Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with 280 lbs*ft torque or Chrysler 300M with 255lbs*ft torque.
If I ever get a Mazda6, I will wait a while 'till they start putting more powerful engines into them. I just have a feeling that after 1-2 years of production they will do that.
Until finally I was driving home one night, creeping into an intersection waiting to turn left. A supped-up Focus hatch comes from the opposite direction and flips its right turn signal on to turn right. Seizing the moment (and wanting to have some fun), I revved and launched. Initially, the Focus and I started pretty much side-by-side, only I was at a stand-still. In a second I had already passed him, and that's when I he cut over a lane (road is three lanes wide) and gunned it. I shifted slightly past the redline, and didn't let off until I hit 60 in 2nd (which also comes just passed the red).
Let me just say, the 6i is pretty darn fast, even if launching takes a little finesse. The engine sounds SWEET when broken in- it makes you want to downshift just to hear it.
Anyway, once I hit 60mph, the fun was over, and I shifted into 4th to let the engine slow me down to a more suitable speed. Once I did that, the Focus, which I had seen in the rear-view obviously trying to keep up since I left him, soon comes roaring by, passing me, but slowly enough to give a huge wave (or thumbs up, or middle finger) before kindly signalling and getting into my empty lane. Cops are usually out, I don't (and didn't mean to, I was just having fun) race, so I let it be.
OK, so it's not much of a glory story, but I still had to share with someone. My wife wouldn't appreciate it.
But to think- acceleration isn't even what this car is all about. Did I mention I've been getting over 30mpg city?