Nissan X-Trail

diploid · December 2001

http://edmunds.yellowbrix.com/pages/edmunds/Story.nsp?story_id=26033433&ID=edmunds&scategory=Auto&

bskohler · December 2001

A lot Nissan's success *is* riding on the Xterra. And it sells like hot cakes.

As for the S/C Xterra. Have you driven both? I didn't think so. The vehicles are relatively the same off the line. The S/C doesn't kick in until highway speeds are achieved (i.e. when it's supposed to). And the S/C doesn't "suck back" any more gas than the N/A Xterra. It uses premium fuel. Mileage is pretty much the same on both.

The thing with the X-trail is that it's just one more unecessary vehicle to add to an already flooded U.S. market. It's an Asstek in waiting. I'm sure they know way more about marketing than the rest of us do or they'd offer it here. Nissan also sells a vehicle overseas called the Patrol that would destroy most other U.S off-road vehicles. The thing is awesome. But they have the Xterra for this market instead. Why? Only they know and I'm sure they know a little more than the rest of us. I'm just glad we don't have to see yet another all terrain minivan.

artdecho · December 2001

The S/C Xterra makes acceptable acceleration times compared to the slug-of-a-regular Xterra.
Mileage is about the same (ie. dismal) and it drinks premium juice to boot. For those who need to do Xtreme offroading and don't care about gas mileage, it's awesome. For the other 95% of us that want utility, comfort, good gas mileage, great handling, foul-weather traction and some off road ability, the Xtrail makes way more sense.
The fact that the Xtrail would blow most of the other "all terrain minivans" as you call them out of the water is even more reason for Nissan to get it over here now.

cb70 · December 2001

This is my dilemna. I live in Iowa and we do get some huge snowstorms coming throough. My wife has to drive 30 miles one way to work. I would much rather put her in a vehicle that gets 23-25 mpg on the highway than a vehicle that gets 17-19. That excludes the Xterra. Now does Nissan want me to go somewhere else or do they want my money?

jblaze13 · December 2001

I think Nissan is hesitant because the X-trail will definitely steal sales from the X-terra even though they are different vehicles. Nissan just spent a load of dough refreshening the X-terra. I'm sure they want their return on that investment. However, it looks and sounds like the X-trail would whip most of the car based SUVs on the road and give the Toyota Highlander a run for its money. Aztek....no way.

diploid · December 2001

What would you rather have? The X-terra or the X-trail? If the X-terra had as much refinement as the X-trail, I'd choose it in a heartbeat. But it doesn't.

canadatwo · December 2001

to Honda, Ford, Suzuki, Toyota, Jeep, Saturn.

These guys are probably thanking their lucky stars that Nissan is being so stubborn (and stupid) to not bring the X-Trail over here.

X-Terra is NOT selling like Hot Cakes compared to the CRV, Escape/Tribute, Liberty, & Rav-4.

Come one Nissan. You have a once in an automotive lifetime to squash the competition. The X-Terra is NOT what the majority of the small-SUV market is looking for.

You know it, I know it, everyone knows it except for your stubborn marketing department who need to admit they grossly miscalculated demand for the "car-based" small-suv market!

Ugh.

diploid · December 2001

It would be an awful waste to let it slip.

Although it's not exactly selling like hotcakes, the X-Terra was Nissan's biggest hit in a long time. The redesigned Maxima did nothing for it, the 2nd generation Altima was up for a redesign, and the Sentra was still competing with its Altima brother on dealers' lots.

Nissan was thanking its lucky stars that at least one of its new cars was selling well...very well to be exact (its demand was more than what Nissan had expected).

canadatwo · December 2001

by a factor of at least 5 to 1 if not 10 to 1.

Way more money for Nissan.

So what if the X-Trail steals some sales from the X-Terra? Way more money to be made on a much larger volume of X-Trails.

Then all the fuss and muss created by the best and hottest new SUV (the X-Trail) will pull all kinds of shoppers into Nissan dealerships and would increase sales of the Altima and Sentra. Win-win-win-win with a small loss in sales of the X-Terra that not too many people are interested in anyway.

Business is business. Nissan should publically come out and give their reasons for not bringing the X-Trail here so we can all see how silly marketing departments can be. I always thought it was the accountants that made the decisions. I guess not at Nissan.

Hopefully this is all about Nissan being underhanded and letting the pulblic get all super excited about the X-Trail and begging for it so that Nissan can charge all kinds of extra money for it. I don't know if that is really all that smart.

BRING THE X-TRAIL TO N.A. NISSAN, YOU MISERABLES!

cncman · December 2001

I too wish I could see the Xtrail here, what Nissan is doing however, which should be great is currently developing an Altima platform SUV, similar to the highlander. No specifics yet, but should have more info in January.

artdecho · December 2001

Highlanders in the GWN start at over 30 grand for a 4 Cyl/FWD.....next is a 36 grand V6/AWD then jump to 45 grand for the Limited. An X-trail would be mid-twenties to 30 G's loaded (to compete with Vue's, CR-V's etc. If Nissan wants to do a Highlander too, then ok, but not at the expense of the more affordable, fuel-efficient X-Trail. Besides, the X-Trail is ready NOW (has been available for over a year).....a new Altima-based SUV would be a few years away.

diploid · December 2001

They worry that the X-Trail would eat into sales of the X-Terra, so they develop an SUV that's more similar in size to the X-Terra? Do they think that this new vehicle won't eat into X-Terra's sales?

scname · December 2001

I think Xterra sale is so small now, any more loss of sale to Xtrail will make production uneconomical. Nissan will then have to scrap the truck altogether and write a big loss on their finace report. That's not good for management's bonus. What do they do?

canadatwo · December 2001

just phase the heavy cludgy gas-guzzling clutzy silly thing out over the next couple years. Let the guy responsible for the X-Terra resign quietly.

Bring the X-Trail to NA and catch the competition with their pants down now.

Or wait for Ford to put a proper 4x4 system and a torquey, high-efficiency 185HP motor into the Escape, or Honda to offer an "outback" version of the CRV with a proper 4x4 system and a 195HP motor
Or the stretched RAV-4 with a small V-6.

Or Subaru to come out with a similar SUV or whatever.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM NISSAN! THE TIME IS NOW!

jblaze13 · December 2001

The X-terra will be near its death by the time Nissan comes out with an SUV to fight the Highlander. The refreshening seems to be to keep it alive long enough for the arrival of something else. They'll probably bring the X-trail right before they come with the X-terra's replacement. The X-terra will probably stick around a few months afterward to somewhat please the die hards like Daimler did with the Cherokee. That's my speculation. It seems Honda will be in the thick of things as well with the "Pilot".

http://www.vtec.net/news/items/921.html

pf01 · December 2001

It seems to me that Nissan simply raised the roof of the pre-96 model year Pathfinder and rebadged it as an Xterra. Please excuse my ignorance, but is Xtrail unit-body or body-on-frame?

artdecho · December 2001

X-Trail is car-based, 100% unit body. That's why it's so strong yet light (just over 3000 lbs), handles so well, has a great power-to-weight ratio and gets great gas mileage. Kinda like the opposite of the X-terra!

bskohler · December 2001

The X-trail is a unit body - that is why is is so WEAK and light. If it were so strong, then why aren't truck frames unit-body??? Because they are weak comapred to ladder frames like on the Xterra. Nissan will eventually make a more car oriented SUV for you soccer moms and dads. Till then, go buy one of the 50 gazillion car-based SUVs already out there. The X-trail seems to have a lot on common with the Isuzu Axiom...sales aren't exactly great. Way to hold back Nissan and keep a line of cars for the enthusiasts!

artdecho · December 2001

Hey, BS, if Nissan doesn't want a part of the 50 gazillion car-based SUV action, it's their loss.
If they want to limit their piece of the compact SUV pie to a 2 ton gas guzzling 4WD dinosaur for the 5% of the population that actually want to climb rocks and ford streams, then that's their call, but they're ignoring an ever-increasing segement of the market where they currently have ZERO players.

artdecho · December 2001

Jeep Cherokees, Grand Cherokees, Nissan Pathfinders and even the upcoming Range Rover (not to mention the Freelander) are all "weak" unit bodies, as you call them. Unit bodies can be made just as strong, or stronger than separate body-on-frames, plus there-' nothing to S-E-P-A-R-A-T-E! Are you one of those yahoos that off-road at excessive speeds, chewing up the land, throwing your vehicle off cliffs or something?
Just wondering......

cb70 · December 2001

Just curious as it is a new vehicle almost everywhere and is not offered in the U.S. As far as being a soccer mom or dad, I do not need to have my vehicle be the man for me. High school is over, I don't need to impress anyone with my vehicle choice.

canadatwo · December 2001

I think your 5% estimate is high.

I figure it is closer to less than 1% of SUV buyers that ACTUALLY are looking to climb rocks and cross streams. Then, about 95% of those less than 1% are NOT willing to spend $23K+ on a brand new vehicle and take it bush wacking. For about $5K you can get an older CJ or YJ or old Toyota or old Ford truck that will do a much better job than the Liberty/Xterra without having to worry about scratching it up.

Most of the people (98%+) who buy Liberty's and X-Terra's will never do any amount of 4x4ing that is anywhere beyond what a car based SUV can handle and stand up to.

They just chug along on the highway getting 16mpg with the occasional jaunt up to a ski hill or on a well maintained Forest Service road that even a 2WD car would handle with ease.

It's mostly about appearances and lifestyle.

YES, NISSAN is missing the big-profit boat everyday that they don't have the X-Trail over here in NA.

The "enthusiast" who is looking for a $25K brand new rock climber is a very very rare animal indeed.

vin_weasel · December 2001

Cool!

The only other option for me when my mindset changed from wanting an "SUV to go to the woods" to wanting a "4x4 to go through the woods" and I bought my Jeep was the XTerra but it just wasn't competitively priced. I totally agree with BS's last statement but the rest of the world (95-99%) see things differently. Market share is market share and vehicles will be produced according to the majority desires. IFS on a Jeep, immediate changes to the '02 Aztek, a definite push here to get the XTrail, a gazillion other lifted cars with hatches called MiniSuvs. It's a fact of life in our society.

So, should they bring in the XTrail? Sure. Will I buy it? No, but it looks to be a contender among the other car-based utes.

artdecho · December 2001

I think BS was trying to say Axiom sales are weak, not X-Trails (which are in high demand all over the world, and would be in North America too if Nissan would get their heads out of the sand)
The Axiom, BTW is kind of a weird duck.....looks like a car but has a ladder type truck frame...
guess you can fool some of the people some of the time but...

artdecho · December 2001

good for you, man.....at least you're honest
(another rarity these days)....no need to blast the x-Trail like BS just 'cause it doen't suit your needs.....Like I said b4, The X-terra is fine for it's intended market (although, like you & canada two point out, maybe a bit expensive to go rock climbing with.....better off with a used jeep etc)......it's just that Nissan is ignoring what the majority want/need when it comes to an SUV by not bringing the X-Trail here

vin_weasel · December 2001

I'm not blasting it. I'm sure it's a good vehicle, it's just not the one for me. When I started looking for a new vehicle I went CRV->Rav4->Forester->Cherokee. Once I drove my Cherokee and realized what it was capable of there was no way the others even came close. If I never drove the Jeep and the X-Trail was available, I may have very well given it very serious consideration when you take into account the other vehicles I was looking at.

My main point of the previous post was that with enough market pressure you could very well see the X-Trail here. I think that they should keep the X-Terra as well for at least a couple more years until all of us rare animals finally become extinct. You just have to convince Nissan.

BTW, who wants a used Jeep?

Just because it has 14k km on it and scratches from the bush doesn't mean I'm crazy. Really, it doesn't.

diploid · December 2001

http://edmunds.yellowbrix.com/pages/edmunds/Story.nsp?story_id=26194189&ID=edmunds&scategory=Auto&

"The extra kilowattage and torque rated on paper for the Nissan doesn't appear to manifest itself in everyday driving. In fact, with the automatic versions of the two cars both set in "Drive" it is the Honda that manages the zero to 100kmh sprint more quickly, taking 9.9 seconds to the Nissan's 10.2."

"The X-Trail's TV ads might suggest otherwise, but neither the Nissan nor the Honda is a serious off-road prospect, though the Honda has never pretended to be. More compromised in the dirt by their patently comfort and highway focused tyres, of the two vehicles, the Nissan is best set-up to respond in rough going to a driver's needs. Able to be set to a fixed 57:43 front-rear four wheel drive power split or simply allowed to find its own best balance of urge in respective 4WD or Auto dash button selections, the Nissan is quicker to respond to lack of grip than the CR-V whose double-pump all-wheel- drive take-up is always slightly delayed."

varmit · December 2001

Finally. Some info that isn't Nissan press material.

varmit · December 2001

Don't think this link has been posted here yet. This is the Aussie press report. It sold 489 units in its first month.

Down under the CR-V is the top dog. The '02 model was just released. We'll have to wait and see how the sales numbers match up.

artdecho · December 2001

It's a tough call between the X-Trail and new CR-V. Both have their strong points. I would expect the CR-V to be more spacious, quiet and refined.
The X-Trail should be more capable off-road and have a slight edge in power. The X-Trail also has a much more convenient tailgate (IMHO). I would expect them to be neck & neck in terms of fuel efficiency. It's an easy call right now, as the only one we can get is the CR-V, but if Nissan ever gets their act together, it could be interesting.

canadatwo · December 2001

CRV pros:
Its a Honda (build & reliability)
Larger dealer network

X-Trail pros (for me):
Much better 4x4 system (On, Off, Auto etc.)
More Power
Bigger Tire diameter

beatfarmer · December 2001

as the review noted, more power does not equal better performance.

Still, the xtrail looks like a pretty nice vehicle.

diploid · December 2001

The X-Trail does weigh more than the CR-V (which I've suspected all this time), also.

X-Trail 1400 kg~ 3080 lb.
CR-V 1252 kg~ 2754 lb.

I think it's still a very close match between the two, though.

artdecho · December 2001

That must be a misprint, or the Aussie CR-V has gone on a big diet, because the N.A. version of the CR-V is 3200&change to 3400&change. That's over a 500 lb difference!

varmit · December 2001

Yep, looks like a typo of some sort. Though, actual measures for the NA spec CR-V are 3287 (MT)and 3347 (AT) in EX trim.

I also noted that they list the CR-V's top speed at 9.8 in the stats, but 9.9 in the article (not that it makes a difference, but it supports the typo theory).

diploid · December 2001

OK, I agree that it must be a typo, also. Never occurred to me to verify those numbers with another source.

But that also says that the CR-V can perform just as well as the more powerful X-Trail even though it has less power and weighs more.

varmit · December 2001

At the risk of turning this into a CR-V vs Xtrail thread.... The CR-V does that to a lot of it's competition. The Forester is significantly lighter and even though the engines are pretty evenly matched, the new CR-V seems to have a fair advantage in 0-60 times. It's about even the 200 hp Escape (they weight about the same now).

I don't care how much power your engine has. If it doesn't make it to the wheels, it doesn't do you any good. I've long suspected that the CR-V has two important advantages. It's FWD and has low, low gearing.

Full-time AWD is great for super slick conditions, but it almost doubles the number of places where power can be lost due to friction. The power in a FWD car has a more simple path to the wheels.

I don't think I need to explain gearing, but the CR-V has some very low 1st and 2nd gears. In fact, first gear in the 5 speed model is almost a creeper. The 5 speed is also the one that has the best acceleration.

canadatwo · December 2001

I agree with your comments for the most part.

The advantage the V-6 Escape has is that if you load it up with 4 adults & gear it will smoke a CRV loaded the same way, especially up hills and passing.

diploid · December 2001

You know what they say: "There's no replacement for displacement."

The Escape clearly wins in the muscle department. I also find it more attractive than the new CR-V...in fact, I find it the most attractive of all the small SUVs.

But other than that, I wouldn't really want one.

varmit - Not trying to turn this into an X-Trail vs. CR-V debate, either...but the two cars are so similar...you just can't help it!

canadatwo · December 2001

Ford is redesigning the Escape next year 2003

It sounds like they are gonna make it look like all their other SUV & trucks

we will wait to see the results

My guess it will have the Ranger like front end

diploid · December 2001

I think the best thing they could do is to make it look like a shrunken Explorer.

Ford is employing some very good designers, lately.

tiredofmanual · December 2001

Bad decision makers. Why on earth is the Mondeo not sold in the USA?!? Back on the subject of SUVs... Where can I see any spy pictures of the new Escape? Back to the topic of the thread... The X-Trail is 2nd to the Escape in the looks department, even though it looks (on the exterior) more upscale than the Escape. And why on earth is the X-Trail not going to be sold in the USA?!? Even though I won't be buying one, good competition has the tendency to produce better cars all around.

zorglub · December 2001

I sent an e-mail a while back to Nissan US to ask about it, and they replied that it would not meet some BS requirements or something. What most people suspect is that Nissan won't bring the X-trail here because it would cannibalize most of the X-Terra sales. I also suspect that the X-Terra, due to its simple (or should I say primitive) technology, very likely carries a higher margin than the X-trail. So, my conclusion is that Nissan US decided to forgo the additional sales from the X-trail because they can make more money off the X-Terra. I also believe that at some point they'll bring it here when the X-Terra sales start decreasing because of all the other small SUVs out there.

In the meantime, you'll have to buy an AWD cute ute from somebody else than Nissan.

Just my $0.02

PS: I hope that the morons over at Nissan Marketing are reading this board.

artdecho · December 2001

http://www.nationalpost.com/......see "special reports, "driver's edge"......Doesn't Nissan read the newspapers, for ...'s sake.....the writing is all over the wall.....crossover's are big (popular) and they're only going to get bigger.

Yet all Nissan has is an aging Pathfinder, an aging Pathfinder-based QX4(Infiniti) and a pick-up based dinosaur (the X-Terra), all getting dismal gas mileage......when are they going to wake up?

varmit · December 2001

Here's a thought. Nissan's recent products have been pushing the hp range higher and higher, but they aren't breaking any records with fuel efficiency. Even the Sentra slurps quite a bit of fuel. Although the X-Trail is certainly a better performer than the X-Terra, might Nissan be afraid of pushing their luck with current or future CAFE restrictions?

storyteller · December 2001

Canadatwo: (slightly offtopic) Why is Ford redesigning the LOOK of the Escape? I thought the design was the only part of the Escape that was not a problem (steering wheel problems, stalling, gas odors, transmission problems, etc). A friend who knows Escapes are plagued with small and large problems is still tempted to buy one because it is so attractive.

varmit · December 2001

I've always thought the Tribute was the better looking of the two. The Escape just looks like every other Ford truck. The X-Trail falls somewhere in between. At least it has a distinct look to it.

canadatwo · December 2001

Ford is gonna make it look EVEN MORE like every other Ford truck & SUV.

Yes you are right, they should concentrate on correcting ALL of the problem areas first. Priorities are all mixed up at FORD. watch www.blueovalnews.com for some insightful reports on Ford's careless attitude.

Gettting back to the X-Trail. Yes, I hope the morons at Nissan marketing are reading this as well as Nissan CFO, CEO, President etc and do some real math and bring the X-Trail over here.

For example:
assume X-Trail profit = $3000/vehicle
X-Terra hulking slug gas pig profit - $6000/vehicle

Sales of X-Trail = 100,000/year
Sales of X-Terra = 25,000/year

DO THE MATH NISSAN, YOU MISERABLES!

squiredogs · December 2001

...like the Pathfinder, or just a rear swing-up door like the X-Terra? I need to haul long surfboards. Every time I see a promo shoot with a surfer that apparently didn't use the roof rack, I wonder how they get their boards around without a liftglass to stick them out the back. Even with the seats down, I need the rear window open in my Pathfinder - that's another reason I can't do the Xterra.

varmit · December 2001

Looks like the X-Trail will fit a short board without needing to open the glass. There's a little flash demonstration on this site that shows how to fold the seats and stow different types of cargo. (This is a New Zealand site, so the passenger seat is on the other side.)

http://www.newxtrail.com/en/main13.html

FWIW, the VUE will do something similar and the CR-V can handle it either with the left glass or this way.

Nissan X-Trail

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