Well, I got the call from my sales rep last weekend that the first demonstrator XC90 will have arrived at the dealership on Monday (Dec. 2) and they are ready to take my order now (I have C$2000 deposit down since May).
Since I wasn't prepared to haggle yet (over the accessories and dealer extras), I went to a competing dealership to check it out. (Actually we can't afford the vehicle until spring so this delay helped us out.)
This particular Volvo dealership had a 2.5T with the premium package (gold with taupe) and was well-equipped with the 17" wheels.
This sales rep explained to me that if I ordered my XC90 now, the expected delivery would be late February/early March. The rep also did not have any firm accessory pricing yet (how the heck are you suppose to order it then?) I don't know if there are similar delays for bi-xenon and DVD navigation systems here in Canada too. Overall, I was very impressed with the spaciousness and utility of this seven-seater.
Needless to say, I took home a gorgeous brochure to oggle and plan for ordering in the new year.
I would love to hear about other experiences from fellow Canadians about their purchasing experiences. (I still have the letter from the Volvo Canada president offering C$1000 in free accessories.)
Now that there are some new XC90 owners out there, I would suggest joining the Yahoo XC90 listserve in addition to posting here. This will allow for a daily XC90 fix in your email INBOX.
My dealer (Edmonton) received its first showroom XC90 last week. Crystal green T6 - very subtle colouring - almost gold/beige in some lighting. I went in last weekend to take a look and it more than met expectations. Yes, it was a little less roomy than the MDX, but I liked the snug feel. As well, I was quite impressed with the easy fold down of the 2nd and 3rd row seats. Quite ingenious how the 3rd row tucks away. The middle console was very easy to take out; quite smart considering there is a 12V plug inside. The 2nd row booster seat was easy to set up and move forward - this was important to us. My wife was impressed how easy it was to open the rear doors. With one hand carrying an infant carrier, she easily opened the top, then the bottom rear door. Our test drive model is due some time this week. I heard it arrived in Halifax last week and was in the process of being transported West. We're going to book in appointments for the test drive some time this week. Can't wait.
DVD was not available but our dealer said it could be installed later. Although a brochure they handed out stated that bi-xenons were available for the 2.5T, their order sheet still did not list this as an option (for the 2.5T) in Canada.
Like you, I had no luck getting an accessories price list. The only accessory package available to us at present was the mudflaps, block heater, all weather mats, and 3M clear strip that I mentioned earlier ($750CDN).
I ordered in early Oct., and I am 29 on the list. I was 30 until a colleague of mine couldn't wait, and bolted to the MDX. They told me that I may have to wait until April'03! That is the one factor that may change our minds. I love what the XC90 offers on paper, but that's a long time to wait with a baby and baby gear to lug around!
I didn't get the $1000 letter and die cast that you received. I think I'll send Volvo Canada a letter...no matter how good your SUV is, April is a bit crazy for waiting...
I noticed that volvovacation.com does not list the XC90 as a vehicle in their program.
Message #738, Is that the overseas delivery program you are speaking of? And do you mind sharing the purchase price? And is the XC90 in your garage? I noticed that it takes 30 days to receive it from the time you go overseas. Thanks.
Note that the GVWR does not imply an actual weight of the vehicle, but the maximum amount of weight that has been determined by engineers to be safe for the vehicle to handle. GVWR is based on a number of factors: engine, transmission, tires, brakes, (the ability to move and stop this mass), etc.. There is usually a single weak link that limits the GVWR (for example the amount of weight the axle is capable of handling). The T6 with a larger more powerful engine would be expected to have a higher GVWR all other factors being equal, even though the cargo space (capacity) of the 2.5T is identical. What surprised me is that the difference in GVWR between the 2.5T and T6 with 7 seats is only 75lbs even though the T6 has 60 more hp. I think this further emphasizes the favorable engine-transmission combination of the 2.5T (and possibly highlights the inefficient engine-transmission combination in the T6). Or perhaps there is some other limiting factor that makes 6080 pounds the maximum regardless of the amount of power.
According to the brochure the versatility package adds 160 pounds to the actual curb weight of the vehicle. I would guess that it is 160 pounds for either version of the XC90.
Can anyone tell me what I might expect to pay for a XC90 (T6,5 passenger, Xenon Headlamps, Climate package and T6 Premium package )?.What is a fair price to approach the dealer with?
That being said (XC90s following MSRP), what exactly can dealers deal on? Do they have any leeway on the pricing of genuine Volvo accessories?
I know that typically the dealer-installed options such as undercoating and extra window tinting are usually somethings that they can dicker with (since these are locally arranged, non-factory features). Accessories, on the other hand, are OEM priced by Volvo.
Any insight as to where we can find 'some' savings would be helpful.
Thanks for the spec, I somehow missed it. Another question...
Another possible reason for skipping the 3rd row is supposedly loss of room in the 2nd row. But comparing the 2nd rows in the 5 & 7 seaters (2nd row fully back for the latter), I just couldn't tell the difference.
The specs suggest one might lose nearly 2 inches, but I'm not sure if that was with the 2nd row fully back, or just at a mid-position that divided the available space between 2nd & 3rd rows.
My wife and I just took delivery of a cyrstal green T6 with the premium/climate/versatility packages. A few things to take note of for future buyers. Obviously availability is an issue, however our purchase was a rushed one since this vehicle replaces our Expedition which was totaled in a recent accident. We were able to obtain exactly what we wanted in 1 week. I called dealers all across the country asking for available XC90's and most gave me the next spring time frame. When I visited the local dealer here in Atlanta, test drove, and "showed them the money", suddenly one was available. I have also received three calls since from other dealerships saying they have what I wanted available now if I buy "today". I called Volvo directly on pricing practices. Obviously right now your going to pay sticker however if you find a dealer selling more than sticker, call Volvo who supposedly takes this very seriously and will investigate. If you have children who still ride in high back car seats or booster seats, they will not fit properly in the 2cd or third rows. The headrests in these rows are not adjustable and will keep the booster/child seat from sitting against the back of the seat properly. I also called Volvo on this one and they were very evasive. Turns out Volvo makes their own booster seats which fit "perfectly" but cost 120 US dollars (ridiculous). I was very "adament" and was able to get the boosters for free, but buyer beware on this one. Take your car seats with you for the test drive and haggle for their seats if need be. The available intergrated booster works great but only if you have one child. Otherwise, so far, it is an outstanding SUV.
Good for you! Now could you be so kind as to tell the rest of us a hint as to what dealerships have availability immediately for cash on the barrelhead. We don't have them yet out here on the West Coast and it's dog eat dog. Thanks.
I have a 2001 S80 T6 which, while a great car, has had its share of issues (new tranny at 5000k, new battery at 24000K, standard electrical problems etc.) While inconvenient to keep going back to the dealer - they are great about fixing it and I love the car - so I want an XC90 - but I am definitely leasing given it is the first production model. Problem is I don't seem to be able to get a residual value - the dealer says C$32/34K is about right - has anyone leased one of these yet?
I called all the dealers in western Washington and the only one that had near term availability was Volvo of Tacoma (Fife). I put a deposit on a T6 and they were still able to accept changes through this week for delivery on 2/23/2003. They had one or two vehicles still available as of a few days ago.
I was also in Savannah, GA over Thanksgiving and the Volvo dealer there said that they are getting 20 or 30 XC90s in late January and only about half of them have deposits on them.
We've been to the Volvo dealership 2 times now, and are making a final decision shortly on whether or not to order the XC90 2.5T AWD or another mid-size SUV exceeding 6000 GVWR.
My first question - the dealer told us that the third row seat is only appropriate for children under 80 lbs. I haven't seen this in any of the lit or discussed on the boards. Any comments?
Also, I understand there may be an issue with our high back booster seats not fitting properly in the car. Has anyone had experience with trying out carseats in the vehicle? We'll definitely be taking a few to the dealer with us next time and we'll pay close attention! I know the first time we drove it, the built in booster wouldn't work right so we had to buckle in one of the boosters and didn't notice any issues. But we very easily could have been in a rush.
Frankly I am pissed upon the lack of definitve info from Volvo about the 3rd row. Our dealership, including when the major party/unveiling occurred in the presence of Volvo "officials", knows nothing about any formal limitations on who should sit in the 3rd row - basically if they fit then fine.
Volvo has published something to the effect that only people under 5'4" should sit back there. (I found this on maybe the Volvo British website)
Our dealer insisted that there was no problem putting car seats in the 3rd row. There is a noticeable lack of LATCH or Tether anchors on the 3rd row seats so out of curiosity I called Volvo's 800 number. Volvo formally "discourages" the placement of any car or booster seats in the 3rd row. However Volvo also stated to me that there is no danger to put car seats in the 3rd row! "It is safe." Why no LATCH or tethers then? Why the discouragement? They have no answer for that except that they disourage car seats in the 3rd row. Circular argument.
I work with people involved in studying auto safety. There is talk of trying to push through a law to require booster seats for those under 8 yrs old or 80 pounds (as opposed to the current 6/60). So what friggin good is a third row if it is only for children, only for those under 80 pounds - but you are "discouraged" from using a car seat or booster back there, and there are no anchors for seats?? Is the seat only suitable for adult dwarfs? No joking, Volvo needs to make a statement before all of us with too many young children for a 2-row vehicle receive this car and find out it is worthless for what we need it for.
Does anyone know who to contact to get reliable information? Shouldn't they disseminate their official stance to the dealers, or are the dealers remmaining purposely "in the dark" as the utility of the 3rd row is essentially nil if you must be under 5'4, possibly under 80 pounds, and you are not supposed to put car seats back there??
Surely, you can come up with better ways of expressing annoyance, disgruntlement, anger, perturbation, upsetment, residual hostility, irritation, disgust, vexation, overstated concern or aggravation. :-)
Yes, I see how I really mangled the first sentence of my post! Must of been the steam coming out of my ears that obscured the screen.
Volvo is known, in my opinion, primarily for their focus on safety. The least that they can do is let people know who the 3rd row is intended to safely accomodate.
It seems that Volvo does not need anyone's business (as least as far as the XC90 is concerned) right now. I mean I showed up at my dealer, unannounced, to finally test drive the car I placed a $2000 deposit on over 2 months ago. Even though I was the only customer in the showroom (which has been the case both times I was there), he limited my test ride of the T6 to about 10 minutes and the 2.5 to about 5 minutes - because I had not scheduled an appointment!! I was incredulous but did not feel like pushing the issue. I guess once the sale is made the dance is over and there was no reason to "court" me anymore. This whole experience (poor or wrong information, the prolonged wait with a substantial deposit, etc...) is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. This would be my first purchase of a Volvo. I am very close to pulling my deposit and getting an MDX, Pilot or the new Lexus GX.
At least you were able to drive it! We scheduled an appointment and when we arrived at the dealership, they'd loaned the only XC90 they had out overnight (against policy, but the general manager did it).
I'm not overly impressed with the dealership we've been talking to, unfortunately we're pretty limited in this rural area. I don't know if it's just that they don't care to sell more of them (since they're backordered anyways) or if it's because we're young and don't fit the image of the stereotypical volvo owner.
I strongly urge anyone who wants to drive the XC90 to make an appointment. Most dealers only have 1 or 2 cars as demos, and if they are anything like our dealership the cars never stop! Now if you make an appointment and the dealer messes it up, be angry. There is no excuse for poor service. It is best to confirm your appointment and that you will be able to drive the car a satisfactory amount.
We took delvery over a week ago of our XC90. Following are some thoughts/observations:
We have a Britax ROundabout child seat that we attached in the rear passenger side seat. After tethering it behind the seat, it fits snuggly and seems to be quite secure. I have no problems with that. We have a 5-seater 2.5t.
As far as the 3rd row, we were orginally leaning in that direction. However, we were dissapointed with the space afforded that row- as well as feeling that there was a definite difference in 2nd row comfort with the 3rd row installed. When we considered our needs, it just wasn't worth it to get the 3rd row.
As far as the ride, it's been excellent. Lots of snow already in the Northeast, and the vehicle has handled fabulously. Great braking in snow/ice, very little slippage, and overall very competent handling in rough conditions.
Gas mileage has been all over the board, but I guess that'll be the case until the engine breaks in a little more. HIghway mileage is sitting at about 19.5, with 17 or so around town. THis is way off the numbers Volvo supplied, but again we should probably wait and see.
Lots of compliments from everyone who sees the car- most compare the looks to the X5, which I think is one of the sharpest SUV's out there.
Overall, we're very happy with the XC90 so far. I've heard rumors that several dealerships are now asking premiums in this area- I would strongly resist. Also, the experiences some people are having with availability sound familiar. Once we "showed the money", suprisingly several dealerships had openings with their first or second allotments- anywhere from early to mid December delivery, when before it was "March/April if you're lucky".
Can you elaborate any further about the 2nd row room in the 5- vs. 7-seater, i.e. "there was a definite difference in 2nd row comfort with the 3rd row installed".
Sure. We felt (and some people think we're crazy, but I did believe there was enough of a difference to be an issue) that with the 3rd row you lose a decent amount of space between the 1st and 2nd rows of seats. Yes, you can move the 2nd row when you have a 3rd row available, but even when the 2nd row is all the way back I felt there was a difference. THe dealer said it was only an inch or two- but I'm 6'2", and 2 inches is a lot.
We had a 5-seater and 7-seater right next to each other in the showroom, and jumped in and out a few times. If you're 6' or smaller, it probably doesn't make a difference. Considering most people in the 2nd row are under 6' it may not be an issue for everyone, but at least something to consider if you don't have a constant use for the 3rd row.
One great thing about the 3rd row in the XC90, though, is how it folds completely into the floor with headrests intact. You wouldn't know there was a 3rd row if you aren't told....
Although the diagrams state that the space between the 2nd row seat to the bottom of the 1st row is 34.61 inches in the 5 and 7 seater - the measurements from the back gate to the 2nd row differ in the measurements. It is 49.5" in the 7 seater and 46.69" in the 5 seater - and all the other measurements do not change. Unless I'm reading the diagram wrong - but it seems like we lost 3" somewhere. Maybe this is the difference you're feeling...
Would you please provide your impression of 2.5t engine performance/acceleration. With all the recent discussion, it would be nice to have a 'first person' comment. Thanks and good luck with the new vehicle.
Took delivery one week ago, driven it 500 miles, and am thrilled. 2.5T, 17" wheels, versatility, climate, and premium packages, and premium sound. The vehicle was "pre-configured" when ordered in October and I wasn't convinced I wanted (or needed) the premium sound, but it is truly amazing when playing CD's. As a gal, I will say it is very easy to get in and out of (with and without the little one). The Britax Roundabout car seat fits snug in the 2nd row middle seat which I pull forward for easy access to my little one. The ride is smooth and the power seems plenty sufficient. It's a great mom car that my husband looks great in too! Drive safe!
I am not sure why this matters. My wife used to sell cars, for Ford and for Nissan. She says that in general dealerships don't want your cash, they want your financing. Maybe things have changed in the last 15 years or maybe this has something to do with interest rates being so low. But I am ready to buy my car outright, as I am sure many others are who are in the queue with me. Does not seem to matter, it is purely based on first come first serve, which seems fair (though it will end up being a 6-7 month wait for us).
Well my dealership finally got their mitts on the T6 version and i took it for a spin. It was awhole different world from the T5 - plenty of punch off the line and great kick on #2 turbo in the midrange - great for passing - I have the S80 T6 and while I admit this powerplant juices alot better in the sedan it still has everything you need for the SUV. I would strongly recommend against the T5 as I don't think it has the Moxy to push that vehicle weight with any kind of load - in addition Volvo's record on new powerplant/tranny configs is less than stellar I know I lived throught the S80 saga. I ordered a nautic blue T6 and will lease it when it arrives 'cause I am very wary of the first year production vehicles - arival date is mid feb.
Suvdriver1 (or anyone else) - Did you get any more definitive info. on leasing costs when ordering? I am coming off S80 T6 lease next summer and feel the same way regarding buying vs. leasing. I know numbers will change between now and then, but I'm curious what current leases cap. cost, residual, int. rate, etc) are being offered at, and if they are committing to a lease rate at time of order. I would guess from these posts that cap cost is MSRP. I'm assuming the leasing is offered through Volvo Finance?
Dealers will be unable to commit to a lease rate when you order, because the rate and residual will certainly change by the time you are able to take delivery. Also, Volvo is not the best source for people with Isaac scores over 700. Chase .00235 money residual 36 mo 12k/yr 63% 48 mo 12k/yr 56%
Cap is at least MSRP. More if the dealer marks up the car, or you purchase accessories or roll in the fees.
First, regarding the "show the money", I was referring to a seriousness about buying the car- in whatever fashion- and that once certain dealerships knew we were going to purchase an XC90 from someone, they miraculously had some vehicles available.
Anyway, regarding the performanc of the 2.5t......Well, first understand that we were previously driving a '98 Inifiniti QX4 which, for all of its comforts, was not the swiftest car on the block. But we are thrilled with the performance so far on the 2.5. We've accelerated nicely onto highways, have had no problems whatsoever passing at high speeds (60-70 mph), and feel a nice jump off the line around town.
We test drove the Acura MDX, and while that car may be a little quicker, there is not that much difference in our opinion. Also drove an X5, with which we did feel significant power difference- but that's probably obvious....
Any pointers for deciding between ML320/500, XC90-T6 ,Discovery-03? We should have ours (XC90-CrystalGreen) arrive at the dealership in the next 10 days . We currently own a 99-S80T6. So far haven't had any problems. Happy with the local dealer. This will be our first time paying MSRP. Just can't find another SUV in this price range comparable to the XC90 ( Reliability???). Thought about the new GX470 - which is pricing out to be 50k+ and also another MSRP candidate. There are quiet a few ML320/500 and Discovery 03 in the market. We might be able to get these for less than Invoice. In fact, I know we will. ML is pretty much a five seater, third row is not functional. Discovery - although the 03 reviews say it is an entirely different truck but still is old technology and we comfortable betting on Volvo reliability than LandRover. Do I have my head right? Hubby is sold on XC90. I can't digest the fact that we are going to be paying MSRP.
Run, do not walk! Seriously, both of those cars have glaring weaknesses. Reliability, resale,ergonomics and comfort.
The XC90 is clearly better than both of those vehicles in those areas. They don't offer the safety systems, WHIPS RSC or the boron roof structure. Ride is much worse as they are truck based SUV's. If yor going on safari in Africa, or climbing the Himalayas these are better choices than the XC90, otherwise go with the Volvo. As for paying MSRP, your simply paying market value for the vehicle, no more but no less. Those others why do you think they are so cheap? Exactly, they aren't worth the money. Is it a deal to pay less and get less?
Volvomax is quite right - won't know how to calculate lease until vehicle has delivery date - but I was told that the residual would likely be 53% of my C$63,800 vehicle cap price - Volvo is the lessee through Primax financial. Lucky you coming off of S80lease next summer - I was at the dealer yesterday doing my deal and I noticed one of running lights had fallen out and my left rear bumper skirt had fallen down a quarter inch - they fixed them both(standard s80 defects) while I was signing the XC90 deal - poor Volvo dealers having to put up with all those lame S80's leasing is the onnnnnllllyyy way to go here.
You should check out the GX470. I really, really like it. The only significant thing (and a big one in my mind being that 3 kids will be in my car much of the time) that the XC90 has over it, in my opinion, is better safety features. Also don't like the gate on the back of the GX and prefer the way the 3rd row XC90 seats disappear as opposed to folding to the side.
So I still prefer the XC90 but outside of safety features (and these are in some sense only theoretical and hopefully will never come into play) or if I did not have young children, I would have already made a deposit on the GX. Given the arrival of my 3rd kid sometime this week, the lexus dealer claimed he would let us borrow a loaner big enough for 3 car seats for the 4-6 weeks I would have to wait for a GX. Nice gesture although I have become much more cynical about these estimated time of arrivals for hot new cars.
Anyway, although I am sticking with the XC90 for as long as we can wait for it, the GX is definitely worth a look.
Just posting again regarding my previous question about bargaining on the accessories as part of a purchase. Can we get any discounts from the dealers on the OEM stuff??
First . . . this message board has been a wonderful source of information. Thanks to all that have posted!
Second . . . I have an XC90 on order, which should be here in February. I have a few questions about options . . .
Has anyone heard whether or not the Volvo OnCall Service can be installed/activated at a later date for the XC90. The last communication that I saw indicated that it was not available on the XC90.
What about the Entertainment System? It is no longer listed as an accessory on the Volvo website. We are counting on this for our 5 hour trips to the beach. Are they having issues with this option?
Any further information on recommended size for the third row? While we do not plan on using this as a permanent means of transporation, we ordered the 7 seater for special trips when we will need the extra seats to eliminate the need for taking two vehicles. I am 5'9" and I could get back there and could probably sit there for an hour, but I don't want to jeopardize anyone's safety.
Third . . . some insight of my own. I am a car fanatic . . . I have spent a lot of time searching for my next car. I looked at:
The X5 - Great ride, luxury, but boy is it small.
The Discovery - Unique look, but the inside is very spartan, cold, hard. Tin-can feel when I slammed the door shut. Not what I want for driving around town, but as others have stated - wouldn't drive anything else on a Safari!
The Yukon/Tahoe - Even top of the line - this car can only compete with the Europeans on size.
The Mercedes M - Well - it is a Mercedes, but when compared with the XC90 feature to feature the Volvo won out in my book.
We didn't look at the MDX. I felt like I should buy a Pilot if that were the case, but I wanted more luxury than the Pilot offers. It is a good looking SUV and there are a lot on the road.
Accessories, Some you can probably negotiate on, but don't expect them for free or a signifigant discount. Also, keep in mind there are labor charges for anything that is dealer installed. On Call Plus, Not available for the XC90, can't be retrofitted either. Entertainment System, Volvo says Spring, we are looking at aftermarket options on this one. 3rd Row, At 5'9" you should be fine for short trips. Volvo says full time for 5'5" and under. Seat is quite safe for children who are out of car seats and adults.
I would suggest that you take a closer look at the MDX to compare against the XC90. The Pilot, though similar in specs, doesn't compare in appointments with the MDX--plus ~10K cheaper than the XC90.
IMHO, the MDX is the closest competitor to the XC90 in this class. Check out the comparison forum discussion between these two wonderful machines.
As for the 3rd row, at a mere 5'6", I was almost eating my knees in both vehicles. 1 hour would seem a long time Those seats are safe though, and only for our little ones.
i have my xc90 2.5t on order, where it will be arriving within 3 weeks. my input about the vehicle (and others) are as follows: 1) my dealer called me if i needed the dvd entertainment system in the vehicle, for another $1995. i said fine and will be included. so i would say it should be available if requested by the buyer. i saw one vehicle with a "sold" sticker which has the dvd system on it. 2) the 3rd row for the 7 seater is suited for kids, and not for adults. however, the 2nd row seats can be slid forward to accommodate adults in the 3rd row for short trips, and the seats are quite high. i also think the 7 seater has better ride because of the automatic leveler of the vehicle's suspension. 3)if you are considering other vehicles, the best one is the mdx for almost the same price. you can order one with navigation that comes with voice command, along with dvd entertainment. i've also inquired about the lexus gx470 and the dealer told me that the initial price is 50 grand and up, with delvery sometime in february or march. the 3rd row seats of the gx can only be folded sideways, and obstructs or limits the rear view vision of the vehicle, plus it is a gas guzzler. however, if you want prestige and ultimate luxury and have the money, then go for the gx. 4) the mercedes and the discovery have the same tincan sound when the doors are shut. both are gas guzzlers and does not rank high in consumer report satisfaction (especially the mercedes, the reason why its ranking has gone down in quality because of the bad raps on the ml suv). 5) if your budget is tight, the best buy would be the honda pilot (in my own opinion). i test drove one last summer, and the car is quiet, powerful and very responsive on the road. it can also carry 8 passengers. the a/c turned on rather quickly too. however, there are 2 things i don't like with it: the lack of sunroof and the transmission shifter on the steering wheel. but overall it is a fine vehicle. you can order either dvd entertainment or navigation with it, but not both. 6) a new suv from nissan should be coming out very soon, called the murano (they consider it a crossover). it is already getting good reviews from test drives. it is a five seater, but looks ultra modern. 7) back to the xc90, i think the accessories can be ordered and i've seen a vehicle that is already "accessorized" at my dealership, complete with the rear skid plate, running boards, dvd entertainment and navigation.
I agree with lenij above. I also have an XC90 on order due in Feb.. I looked at lots of other SUVs (for over 4 months of test drives, etc.) before settling on the Volvo. The MDX would be my 2nd choice primarily because I also had a need for an occasional 3rd row of seats. If I had only needed 5 seats I would have gone with the Lexus RX300. The MDX was a good drive with lots of power, but lacked the XC90s safety features, and had a cheap and uncomfortable interior to me. The Pilot would have been my 3rd choice. I also looked at the GX470, but it was $9000 more than the XC90, got poorer gas mileage, and more truck like ride. If you are planning on going off road often it might make a better choice. If you are looking for something with a comfortable 3rd row in this price range, check out the Toyota Sequoia (does drink more gas though).
My dealer had an after-market DVD system available that could be installed for $2400!!! You can buy a top of the line portable DVD system for $500 or less. I figured I could buy one for each of my kids and still save money, and they could use them when they are in our other vehicle, or take them out and use them at Grandma's, home, etc..
I have heard that the On Call Plus will be available for the 2004 XC90s but cannot be installed in the 2003s.
I could not get any price break on the accessories, however I have heard that the accessories and packages available now are already being discounted by Volvo, and that for 2004 you will see a price increase in all the options.
Don't know if this has been posted previously, but I see that Exoticwooddash.com is selling a couple of wood dash kits for the XC90, to add to the factory coverage.
If gas mileage is of concern, cost is usually $250 to $400 per year, on a $40k vehicle, why buy an SUV? If performance is of concern, why worry about gas mileage? Not saying anyone shouldn't concern themselves with conservation, it just seems like an oxymoron. We've had a Suburban or Excursion since '71 and the mileage today is great compared to what we got historically, but we use the cargo capacity so we pay the gas bill. Why worry about it if you need it? If you don't need it get something that is a better fit that is more affordable. To me, the XC90 is not a mileage issue vehicle no matter what it gets, it's about the safety, enjoy the rides.
OK, Starrow68, you got a chance to get on your soapbox and question my asking about gas mileage while wanting an SUV. You expressed your view, and I hope that you now feel a lot better about things. You certainly straightened me out!
I am concerned about mileage for 2 reasons: 1) I drive extremely high miles; estimate 25K - 33K / annually. So my fuel costs are significantly higher than most people, whether I'm spending 45K or not.
2) I had a horrible experience with my Explorer AWD V8. That car was listed as 16 city / 20 Hwy, and, as I previously stated, at the 50K mile mark I was getting about 9 miles per gallon COMBINED. Now we are talking about different vehicles, technologies, and drivetrains, but that is a HUGE difference. I expected that I would get at least 15 mpg in aggregate. I wanted to drive and haul stuff in an SUV, not a Winnebago. I had the complete engine and drive train checked out thoroughly on several occasions; the Ford dealer in Northern Virginia finally told me that this was just a highly inefficient platform, and that the numbers stated were overly optimistic and probably not backed up by very much testing. My driving was about 60% highway, with bulky but not heavy loads.
Believe me, I know that I am not going to get BMW 528 mileage out of an SUV, for Christ's sake. But am I wrong to ask about mileage in the real world, in the limited experience that people have had with the XC90 to date and with, let's say, the XC70 platform in a twin-turbo configuration? Not at all. I've got a Great Dane who is no longer a puppy and has outgrown the 5 - series to haul around + golf clubs, etc. and need the space badly. I am PRIMARILY interested in the same things as you - safety and cargo capacity.
Anyway, I appreciate your words and will keep them in perspective as I get closer to pulling the trigger.
Now, ANYBODY else out there - can you help me / provide information about mileage or any of my other questions???? Your help is much appreciated.
Comments
Since I wasn't prepared to haggle yet (over the accessories and dealer extras), I went to a competing dealership to check it out. (Actually we can't afford the vehicle until spring so this delay helped us out.)
This particular Volvo dealership had a 2.5T with the premium package (gold with taupe) and was well-equipped with the 17" wheels.
This sales rep explained to me that if I ordered my XC90 now, the expected delivery would be late February/early March. The rep also did not have any firm accessory pricing yet (how the heck are you suppose to order it then?) I don't know if there are similar delays for bi-xenon and DVD navigation systems here in Canada too. Overall, I was very impressed with the spaciousness and utility of this seven-seater.
Needless to say, I took home a gorgeous brochure to oggle and plan for ordering in the new year.
I would love to hear about other experiences from fellow Canadians about their purchasing experiences. (I still have the letter from the Volvo Canada president offering C$1000 in free accessories.)
Now that there are some new XC90 owners out there, I would suggest joining the Yahoo XC90 listserve in addition to posting here. This will allow for a daily XC90 fix in your email INBOX.
Who would'a thunk?
DVD was not available but our dealer said it could be installed later. Although a brochure they handed out stated that bi-xenons were available for the 2.5T, their order sheet still did not list this as an option (for the 2.5T) in Canada.
Like you, I had no luck getting an accessories price list. The only accessory package available to us at present was the mudflaps, block heater, all weather mats, and 3M clear strip that I mentioned earlier ($750CDN).
I ordered in early Oct., and I am 29 on the list. I was 30 until a colleague of mine couldn't wait, and bolted to the MDX. They told me that I may have to wait until April'03! That is the one factor that may change our minds. I love what the XC90 offers on paper, but that's a long time to wait with a baby and baby gear to lug around!
I didn't get the $1000 letter and die cast that you received. I think I'll send Volvo Canada a letter...no matter how good your SUV is, April is a bit crazy for waiting...
http://en.carpoint.msn.ca/Vip/Job/Volvo/XC90/2003.asp
2.5T (5 seats)----5770 pounds
2.5T (7 seats)----6005 "
T6 (5 seats)------5880 "
T6 (7 seats)------6080 "
Got to get the 7 seat option to go over 6000 pounds with either version.
Message #738, Is that the overseas delivery program you are speaking of? And do you mind sharing the purchase price? And is the XC90 in your garage? I noticed that it takes 30 days to receive it from the time you go overseas. Thanks.
Hmmm... wonder if that's a reason to avoid getting the 3rd row with the 2.5T?
According to the brochure the versatility package adds 160 pounds to the actual curb weight of the vehicle. I would guess that it is 160 pounds for either version of the XC90.
George
I know that typically the dealer-installed options such as undercoating and extra window tinting are usually somethings that they can dicker with (since these are locally arranged, non-factory features). Accessories, on the other hand, are OEM priced by Volvo.
Any insight as to where we can find 'some' savings would be helpful.
Another possible reason for skipping the 3rd row is supposedly loss of room in the 2nd row. But comparing the 2nd rows in the 5 & 7 seaters (2nd row fully back for the latter), I just couldn't tell the difference.
The specs suggest one might lose nearly 2 inches, but I'm not sure if that was with the 2nd row fully back, or just at a mid-position that divided the available space between 2nd & 3rd rows.
A few things to take note of for future buyers.
Obviously availability is an issue, however our purchase was a rushed one since this vehicle replaces our Expedition which was totaled in a recent accident. We were able to obtain exactly what we wanted in 1 week. I called dealers all across the country asking for available XC90's and most gave me the next spring time frame. When I visited the local dealer here in Atlanta, test drove, and "showed them the money", suddenly one was available. I have also received three calls since from other dealerships saying they have what I wanted available now if I buy "today".
I called Volvo directly on pricing practices. Obviously right now your going to pay sticker however if you find a dealer selling more than sticker, call Volvo who supposedly takes this very seriously and will investigate.
If you have children who still ride in high back car seats or booster seats, they will not fit properly in the 2cd or third rows. The headrests in these rows are not adjustable and will keep the booster/child seat from sitting against the back of the seat properly. I also called Volvo on this one and they were very evasive. Turns out Volvo makes their own booster seats which fit "perfectly" but cost 120 US dollars (ridiculous).
I was very "adament" and was able to get the boosters for free, but buyer beware on this one. Take your car seats with you for the test drive and haggle for their seats if need be. The available intergrated booster works great but only if you have one child.
Otherwise, so far, it is an outstanding SUV.
I was also in Savannah, GA over Thanksgiving and the Volvo dealer there said that they are getting 20 or 30 XC90s in late January and only about half of them have deposits on them.
My first question - the dealer told us that the third row seat is only appropriate for children under 80 lbs. I haven't seen this in any of the lit or discussed on the boards. Any comments?
Also, I understand there may be an issue with our high back booster seats not fitting properly in the car. Has anyone had experience with trying out carseats in the vehicle? We'll definitely be taking a few to the dealer with us next time and we'll pay close attention! I know the first time we drove it, the built in booster wouldn't work right so we had to buckle in one of the boosters and didn't notice any issues. But we very easily could have been in a rush.
Thanks for your help!
Volvo has published something to the effect that only people under 5'4" should sit back there. (I found this on maybe the Volvo British website)
Our dealer insisted that there was no problem putting car seats in the 3rd row. There is a noticeable lack of LATCH or Tether anchors on the 3rd row seats so out of curiosity I called Volvo's 800 number. Volvo formally "discourages" the placement of any car or booster seats in the 3rd row. However Volvo also stated to me that there is no danger to put car seats in the 3rd row! "It is safe." Why no LATCH or tethers then? Why the discouragement? They have no answer for that except that they disourage car seats in the 3rd row. Circular argument.
I work with people involved in studying auto safety. There is talk of trying to push through a law to require booster seats for those under 8 yrs old or 80 pounds (as opposed to the current 6/60). So what friggin good is a third row if it is only for children, only for those under 80 pounds - but you are "discouraged" from using a car seat or booster back there, and there are no anchors for seats?? Is the seat only suitable for adult dwarfs? No joking, Volvo needs to make a statement before all of us with too many young children for a 2-row vehicle receive this car and find out it is worthless for what we need it for.
Does anyone know who to contact to get reliable information? Shouldn't they disseminate their official stance to the dealers, or are the dealers remmaining purposely "in the dark" as the utility of the 3rd row is essentially nil if you must be under 5'4, possibly under 80 pounds, and you are not supposed to put car seats back there??
How about it Volvo?
tidester, host
Volvo is known, in my opinion, primarily for their focus on safety. The least that they can do is let people know who the 3rd row is intended to safely accomodate.
It seems that Volvo does not need anyone's business (as least as far as the XC90 is concerned) right now. I mean I showed up at my dealer, unannounced, to finally test drive the car I placed a $2000 deposit on over 2 months ago. Even though I was the only customer in the showroom (which has been the case both times I was there), he limited my test ride of the T6 to about 10 minutes and the 2.5 to about 5 minutes - because I had not scheduled an appointment!! I was incredulous but did not feel like pushing the issue. I guess once the sale is made the dance is over and there was no reason to "court" me anymore. This whole experience (poor or wrong information, the prolonged wait with a substantial deposit, etc...) is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. This would be my first purchase of a Volvo. I am very close to pulling my deposit and getting an MDX, Pilot or the new Lexus GX.
I'm not overly impressed with the dealership we've been talking to, unfortunately we're pretty limited in this rural area. I don't know if it's just that they don't care to sell more of them (since they're backordered anyways) or if it's because we're young and don't fit the image of the stereotypical volvo owner.
Most dealers only have 1 or 2 cars as demos, and if they are anything like our dealership the cars never stop!
Now if you make an appointment and the dealer messes it up, be angry.
There is no excuse for poor service.
It is best to confirm your appointment and that you will be able to drive the car a satisfactory amount.
We have a Britax ROundabout child seat that we attached in the rear passenger side seat. After tethering it behind the seat, it fits snuggly and seems to be quite secure. I have no problems with that. We have a 5-seater 2.5t.
As far as the 3rd row, we were orginally leaning in that direction. However, we were dissapointed with the space afforded that row- as well as feeling that there was a definite difference in 2nd row comfort with the 3rd row installed. When we considered our needs, it just wasn't worth it to get the 3rd row.
As far as the ride, it's been excellent. Lots of snow already in the Northeast, and the vehicle has handled fabulously. Great braking in snow/ice, very little slippage, and overall very competent handling in rough conditions.
Gas mileage has been all over the board, but I guess that'll be the case until the engine breaks in a little more. HIghway mileage is sitting at about 19.5, with 17 or so around town. THis is way off the numbers Volvo supplied, but again we should probably wait and see.
Lots of compliments from everyone who sees the car- most compare the looks to the X5, which I think is one of the sharpest SUV's out there.
Overall, we're very happy with the XC90 so far. I've heard rumors that several dealerships are now asking premiums in this area- I would strongly resist. Also, the experiences some people are having with availability sound familiar. Once we "showed the money", suprisingly several dealerships had openings with their first or second allotments- anywhere from early to mid December delivery, when before it was "March/April if you're lucky".
We had a 5-seater and 7-seater right next to each other in the showroom, and jumped in and out a few times. If you're 6' or smaller, it probably doesn't make a difference. Considering most people in the 2nd row are under 6' it may not be an issue for everyone, but at least something to consider if you don't have a constant use for the 3rd row.
One great thing about the 3rd row in the XC90, though, is how it folds completely into the floor with headrests intact. You wouldn't know there was a 3rd row if you aren't told....
http://www.volvocars-pr.com/index.asp?par=model&pag=images&year=2003&Model=209&lang=2&flash=1
Although the diagrams state that the space between the 2nd row seat to the bottom of the 1st row is 34.61 inches in the 5 and 7 seater - the measurements from the back gate to the 2nd row differ in the measurements. It is 49.5" in the 7 seater and 46.69" in the 5 seater - and all the other measurements do not change. Unless I'm reading the diagram wrong - but it seems like we lost 3" somewhere. Maybe this is the difference you're feeling...
As a gal, I will say it is very easy to get in and out of (with and without the little one). The Britax Roundabout car seat fits snug in the 2nd row middle seat which I pull forward for easy access to my little one. The ride is smooth and the power seems plenty sufficient. It's a great mom car that my husband looks great in too! Drive safe!
Also, Volvo is not the best source for people with Isaac scores over 700.
Chase .00235 money
residual 36 mo 12k/yr 63%
48 mo 12k/yr 56%
Cap is at least MSRP.
More if the dealer marks up the car, or you purchase accessories or roll in the fees.
Anyway, regarding the performanc of the 2.5t......Well, first understand that we were previously driving a '98 Inifiniti QX4 which, for all of its comforts, was not the swiftest car on the block. But we are thrilled with the performance so far on the 2.5. We've accelerated nicely onto highways, have had no problems whatsoever passing at high speeds (60-70 mph), and feel a nice jump off the line around town.
We test drove the Acura MDX, and while that car may be a little quicker, there is not that much difference in our opinion. Also drove an X5, with which we did feel significant power difference- but that's probably obvious....
This will be our first time paying MSRP. Just can't find another SUV in this price range comparable to the XC90 ( Reliability???). Thought about the new GX470 - which is pricing out to be 50k+ and also another MSRP candidate.
There are quiet a few ML320/500 and Discovery 03 in the market. We might be able to get these for less than Invoice. In fact, I know we will.
ML is pretty much a five seater, third row is not functional. Discovery - although the 03 reviews say it is an entirely different truck but still is old technology and we comfortable betting on Volvo reliability than LandRover.
Do I have my head right? Hubby is sold on XC90. I can't digest the fact that we are going to be paying MSRP.
Seriously, both of those cars have glaring weaknesses. Reliability, resale,ergonomics and comfort.
The XC90 is clearly better than both of those vehicles in those areas.
They don't offer the safety systems, WHIPS RSC or the boron roof structure.
Ride is much worse as they are truck based SUV's.
If yor going on safari in Africa, or climbing the Himalayas these are better choices than the XC90, otherwise go with the Volvo.
As for paying MSRP, your simply paying market value for the vehicle, no more but no less.
Those others why do you think they are so cheap?
Exactly, they aren't worth the money.
Is it a deal to pay less and get less?
So I still prefer the XC90 but outside of safety features (and these are in some sense only theoretical and hopefully will never come into play) or if I did not have young children, I would have already made a deposit on the GX. Given the arrival of my 3rd kid sometime this week, the lexus dealer claimed he would let us borrow a loaner big enough for 3 car seats for the 4-6 weeks I would have to wait for a GX. Nice gesture although I have become much more cynical about these estimated time of arrivals for hot new cars.
Anyway, although I am sticking with the XC90 for as long as we can wait for it, the GX is definitely worth a look.
Second . . . I have an XC90 on order, which should be here in February. I have a few questions about options . . .
Has anyone heard whether or not the Volvo OnCall Service can be installed/activated at a later date for the XC90. The last communication that I saw indicated that it was not available on the XC90.
What about the Entertainment System? It is no longer listed as an accessory on the Volvo website. We are counting on this for our 5 hour trips to the beach. Are they having issues with this option?
Any further information on recommended size for the third row? While we do not plan on using this as a permanent means of transporation, we ordered the 7 seater for special trips when we will need the extra seats to eliminate the need for taking two vehicles. I am 5'9" and I could get back there and could probably sit there for an hour, but I don't want to jeopardize anyone's safety.
Third . . . some insight of my own. I am a car fanatic . . . I have spent a lot of time searching for my next car. I looked at:
The X5 - Great ride, luxury, but boy is it small.
The Discovery - Unique look, but the inside is very spartan, cold, hard. Tin-can feel when I slammed the door shut. Not what I want for driving around town, but as others have stated - wouldn't drive anything else on a Safari!
The Yukon/Tahoe - Even top of the line - this car can only compete with the Europeans on size.
The Mercedes M - Well - it is a Mercedes, but when compared with the XC90 feature to feature the Volvo won out in my book.
We didn't look at the MDX. I felt like I should buy a Pilot if that were the case, but I wanted more luxury than the Pilot offers. It is a good looking SUV and there are a lot on the road.
Some you can probably negotiate on, but don't expect them for free or a signifigant discount.
Also, keep in mind there are labor charges for anything that is dealer installed.
On Call Plus,
Not available for the XC90, can't be retrofitted either.
Entertainment System,
Volvo says Spring, we are looking at aftermarket options on this one.
3rd Row,
At 5'9" you should be fine for short trips.
Volvo says full time for 5'5" and under.
Seat is quite safe for children who are out of car seats and adults.
IMHO, the MDX is the closest competitor to the XC90 in this class. Check out the comparison forum discussion between these two wonderful machines.
As for the 3rd row, at a mere 5'6", I was almost eating my knees in both vehicles. 1 hour would seem a long time
1) my dealer called me if i needed the dvd entertainment system in the vehicle, for another $1995. i said fine and will be included. so i would say it should be available if requested by the buyer. i saw one vehicle with a "sold" sticker which has the dvd system on it.
2) the 3rd row for the 7 seater is suited for kids, and not for adults. however, the 2nd row seats can be slid forward to accommodate adults in the 3rd row for short trips, and the seats are quite high. i also think the 7 seater has better ride because of the automatic leveler of the vehicle's suspension.
3)if you are considering other vehicles, the best one is the mdx for almost the same price. you can order one with navigation that comes with voice command, along with dvd entertainment. i've also inquired about the lexus gx470 and the dealer told me that the initial price is 50 grand and up, with delvery sometime in february or march. the 3rd row seats of the gx can only be folded sideways, and obstructs or limits the rear view vision of the vehicle, plus it is a gas guzzler. however, if you want prestige and ultimate luxury and have the money, then go for the gx.
4) the mercedes and the discovery have the same tincan sound when the doors are shut. both are gas guzzlers and does not rank high in consumer report satisfaction (especially the mercedes, the reason why its ranking has gone down in quality because of the bad raps on the ml suv).
5) if your budget is tight, the best buy would be the honda pilot (in my own opinion). i test drove one last summer, and the car is quiet, powerful and very responsive on the road. it can also carry 8 passengers. the a/c turned on rather quickly too. however, there are 2 things i don't like with it: the lack of sunroof and the transmission shifter on the steering wheel. but overall it is a fine vehicle. you can order either dvd entertainment or navigation with it, but not both.
6) a new suv from nissan should be coming out very soon, called the murano (they consider it a crossover). it is already getting good reviews from test drives. it is a five seater, but looks ultra modern.
7) back to the xc90, i think the accessories can be ordered and i've seen a vehicle that is already "accessorized" at my dealership, complete with the rear skid plate, running boards, dvd entertainment and navigation.
My dealer had an after-market DVD system available that could be installed for $2400!!! You can buy a top of the line portable DVD system for $500 or less. I figured I could buy one for each of my kids and still save money, and they could use them when they are in our other vehicle, or take them out and use them at Grandma's, home, etc..
I have heard that the On Call Plus will be available for the 2004 XC90s but cannot be installed in the 2003s.
I could not get any price break on the accessories, however I have heard that the accessories and packages available now are already being discounted by Volvo, and that for 2004 you will see a price increase in all the options.
We've had a Suburban or Excursion since '71 and the mileage today is great compared to what we got historically, but we use the cargo capacity so we pay the gas bill. Why worry about it if you need it? If you don't need it get something that is a better fit that is more affordable.
To me, the XC90 is not a mileage issue vehicle no matter what it gets, it's about the safety, enjoy the rides.
I am concerned about mileage for 2 reasons: 1) I drive extremely high miles; estimate 25K - 33K / annually. So my fuel costs are significantly higher than most people, whether I'm spending 45K or not.
2) I had a horrible experience with my Explorer AWD V8. That car was listed as 16 city / 20 Hwy, and, as I previously stated, at the 50K mile mark I was getting about 9 miles per gallon COMBINED. Now we are talking about different vehicles, technologies, and drivetrains, but that is a HUGE difference. I expected that I would get at least 15 mpg in aggregate. I wanted to drive and haul stuff in an SUV, not a Winnebago. I had the complete engine and drive train checked out thoroughly on several occasions; the Ford dealer in Northern Virginia finally told me that this was just a highly inefficient platform, and that the numbers stated were overly optimistic and probably not backed up by very much testing. My driving was about 60% highway, with bulky but not heavy loads.
Believe me, I know that I am not going to get BMW 528 mileage out of an SUV, for Christ's sake. But am I wrong to ask about mileage in the real world, in the limited experience that people have had with the XC90 to date and with, let's say, the XC70 platform in a twin-turbo configuration? Not at all. I've got a Great Dane who is no longer a puppy and has outgrown the 5 - series to haul around + golf clubs, etc. and need the space badly. I am PRIMARILY interested in the same things as you - safety and cargo capacity.
Anyway, I appreciate your words and will keep them in perspective as I get closer to pulling the trigger.
Now, ANYBODY else out there - can you help me / provide information about mileage or any of my other questions???? Your help is much appreciated.