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rockycow
Regards,
Phil
s possible to have a problem in an Odyssey, but at least I don't have to bet my life each time I get behind the wheel. Don't you wish you could say the same. Of course your DC van has a much prettier dash. Maybe they should have used some of that money to build a quality van.
How many minivans has DC sold? Over 9 million. How many minivans has Honda sold? Well I think they are working on 1 million now. Think of how many 96-00 model DC minivans out there and how many miles their owners have put on them without any trouble whatsoever. That number must be very large.
How many people of those 9 million that have bought DC minivans at some time are now dead due to some Chrysler related problem? Not many. Not many at all. Especially if you put that number over the total number of minivans Chrysler has sold.
Just putting things into perspective for you.
-Adam
My '91 Grand Voyager spewed gasoline all over it's engine, and it turned out to be EXACTLY the o-rings shown in the illustration in the article. I had to pay myself, even though DC had recalled the Intrepids for EXACTLY the same problem. Fortunately mine did not go up in smoke.
Now I want reimbursed. I paid over $800 for repairs. I just went through all of my repair reciepts for this van and I can't believe I seriously considered buying another DC van! Quite an extensive list and many dollars spent.
And now, back to Oddyssey issues.
Anyway, I forget who it was but one Odyssey owner suggested that even if you don't buy or like them, the presence of the Odyssey and Sienna in the marketplace are really helping improve the quality of every minivan on the market, especially Chrysler's. For example, I think a 2002 model DC minivan is probably the best made minivan Chrysler has ever produced since the first one in 1984, as a result of the increased competition (and mainly the Odyssey).
I can't get over the description of how that poor lady lost her life in her new 99 model year van. That is really a tragedy. Even if it was just a freak accident and/or that particular van was just not assembled right, it really makes you value life that much more. I'm glad Chrysler is going to FINALLY recall the effected minivans, or at least they say they will...
-Adam
2000 Town & Country LX
rockycow
Better sound system, more power, same hard plastic arm rests and dash-yuck. Nice color. Better seats. Nice lumbar. Security system standard now. Side airbags, no premium fuel. new steering wheel. But no discount. Rear disks do not seem to help over drums. Not sure of advantage here. Time will tell. I like the 5 speed auto --no lunge from gear 1-2. Yeah.
INKY
Anybody knows where it costs less to install the TV/DVD? Fry quoted me $299.00 with an additional $30.00 for the wireless earphones. Those earphones come with the Panasonic TV/DVD purchase, but Fry wanted to charge extra to "activate" them. Do I need to pay the $30.00 extra to "activate" those earphones? Please advise.
http://www.handa-accessories.com/
Trevor has the correct spark plugs for $11.40 each on his web site.
As to your CEL and TCS lights going on, you probably need to remove the intake manifold and rebore the EGR port in it. My guess is that the EGR valve itself is just fine.
Expect to pay a pretty good penny for the timing belt replacement. I did mine a while back and it was in excess of $600, if I remember correctly. This included replacement of another belt and the water pump, which are apparently all recommended for change at the same time.
Fore those that are interested in the Odyssey here is one more review of the Odyssey:
http://pc99.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.hbs?myrec=3
not thrilled to pay list, but substantially equivalent sienna at 400 over invoice comes to just over 26. for another $1000 get a bigger and better driving van, dual power doors, disk brakes in back, traction control, fold down rear seats, 5 speed transmission, and more horsepower.
have searched far and wide on this board, but haven't found much information about new transmission. is it the same 5 speed put in the MDX? a slight modifcation from the 4 speed, a major modification from the 4 speed? If so how and why?
giving up a three year old oldsmobile intrigue-- we now have 2 kids, and wife has insisted on mini-van. liked intrigue a lot--solid car, drives extremely well (when purchased liked it much better than the accord (couldn't stand the accord's transmission lag, and much looser handling than intigue)
anyway, i digress. lookign forward to late feb/early march.
-juice
I will put 35, and 60 in the spare, in my tires and that spare is a bear to put the air in.
Full load - use MAX press listed to keep the tires from getting crushed and breaking belts (don't ask, I've done it).
Empty - Use a good deal less on a truck tire - how much is a function of the tire. Sort of a trial and error. Run a tire too high of inflation and it will bounce on the road more and wear out the center of the tread eventually. (yea, I've done that too) You can actually see the sides of the tires not contact the ground or run through a puddle to check the footprint.
What does this mean for you? For a minivan, pressure depends on what load you are carrying. Stay w/in the minimum and if in doubt, contact the mfg, they know the best info on their tire.
DD
Tire MAX label = 44 psi
Dealer Delivered psi 32
I think 36 is correct. 36 is one of the higher psi's I have ever seen in this class. 30-32 normal, but will go with 36. should save fuel if anything plus weather has been hot lately. You will loose 1 psi for every 10 degree temp drop outside. Make sure you check pressure COLD.
Just added a leather steering wheel cover, nice but took 1.5 hours to put on, also front windows tinted now. Looks nice on Redrock Pearl.
INKY
-juice
On the tires, Michelin Symmetry P215 65R16, it says max pressure #35 psi for max load of #1565.
I think that the car manufacturers are recommending max pressure to avoid a law suit, should you carry the max load, and also for max mpg. They do have a Fed mpg fleet figure to meet.
I would think that you could use a lower pressure, for lighter loads, and a better ride. The Ford Explorer went to the lower pressures to get a better ride, which caused them handling and safety problems.
The dealer, last night, set my tire pressures at #32, when I got an oil change, and said that is what they recommend. Since you will lose one to two psi, per month through the tire, I like to start out at #35 or #34 so I don't have to check my tires as often. Owners manual recommends checking pressure at least once a month but since it is a hassle I do it about every 2 months, at which time the pressure is at about #32 from the original #35.
As I was writing this the service manager called me and asked how I liked the service. I said it was very good, but just to have something to complain about, I had asked them to put air in the spare tire and they said they were too busy. So he said to drop by and they would do that. He says just because they are too busy is not a good reason, so I will do that today.
He also asked me to rate them excellent on the survey which I am going to be getting. I said yes I would, and I will. Excellent really means very good, in todays world, and they are hurt if I don't. As long as they are willing to work with me to correct problems, I will rate them excellent.
http://www.nakamichi.com/auto/musicbank/mb_75.htm
I pretty much accept that the Odyssey is the best van on the market. My question is at what price do I consider something else?
I'm considering a Chevy Venture Warner Brother loaded with all options. The invoice is
$29307
-2000 rebate
-2352 GM dollars
$24955. I can probably buy for $25400 or even less.
I'm looking at the Honday EX. No leather and no entertainment system. MSRP is $27190 and if I'm lucky I can maybe find one for $26700.
So I'm looking roughly at a $2300 difference in cost. In addition the Venture has the entertainment system and leather.
Since this is the Odyssey discussion I figure I should get some good reasons to still buy the Odyssey.
Thanks for any help.
CR rates reliability as poor, so that doesn't help.
I actually rented a Montana when I took the family to Disney World in Florida (it's all they had), and the "check air bag" light came on almost right away, which was scary. Besides that, the engine is coarse and not very strong.
Besides price, I don't see that it has a lot going for it. I think you have a not so good van sprinkled with good features (leather, entertainment), but that still doesn't make it a good van at the core.
-juice
There is a reason GM is cheaper even with your GM dollars. you will be sorry.
INKY
The Odyssey got a lot of improvements in 2002 and so it would probably be about 1 1/2 rating points higher then the Venture, is my guess.
I look at a vehicle purchase as a long term investment, so differences of a few thousand dollars are not very significant to me, when I consider the difference in $/yr. I may keep my Odyssey 7-10 yrs. My last car I kept 14 years.
Richard
I realize all of the posts here are anecdotal, but before you decide between the GM van and the Honda van spend some time reading the Honda Oddyssey Problems and the Venture, Sillhouete or Montana Problems forums.
Too often in the main forums people will defend their purchases which is human nature. In the problem forums people are discussing real issues with their vans. It helped me decide on what to purchase.
It would be great if someone made an extension to the tire air valve so you don't have to take the tire out to check it, or put air in it.
Does anyone know if they make such a thing?
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=6217&src=SRCH&tcode=37
Also at www.Wheelmasters.com
As it stands, to check the spare you have to:
1. Move the front seats forward
2. Remove the floor door mat flap
3. Lift up the floor door and hook it to the front seat.
4. Unscrew the tire and take it out and turn it over
5. Put air in it.
6. Put it back, making sure you have got it just right in there so you can screw it in.
7. Put everything back.
My dealer said he could not do that for free every time I had an oil change. He said it was part of the 15,000 mile service, but I did not get if he charges for it at that time or not.
After todays events, I will just do it myself. I guess thats what I get for being lazy.
The Honda is a highly rated van, but it is not likely to be as trouble free as you would expect from Honda. A short tour of the troubles forum for Honda vans ought to be proof enough. Especially transmissions and steering pull, power door trouble, etc.
GM vans are not likey to be as "safe" ( relative term - if you really are nuts about safety, you wouldn't be driving on our roads with our poor drivers!), but GM vans have advantages. They have a great transmission. GM automaticsa are the best in world. Other mfg's buy from GM for some models. I'd rate GM vans as least likely to blow a tranny and leave you stranded.
The motor is torquey, and thus doesn't need to Rev a lot. Most errands and stuff you're not racing in a gran prix with the motor at 5,000 rpm, you're just off idle stop light to stoplight. Why do you need gran prix motor like a honda? I grant that the new Honda motors are great power producing motors that love to rev and will out-run a GM on the highway, if that means something to you while you're hauling the family to the Pizza Hut. I'd like to have 500 hp if I could, but the GM vans run well and will cruise nicely at 80mph w/o strain and get 25mpg which for most folks is what they are looking for. The GM motors also don't have timing belts to change or all the complexity. At 200k worth of miles, my money would be on the GM motor needing less work.
The dissappearing seat is a great idea, and it would be nice, but also see how comfortable it is before saying that's the best rear seat.
Also, I drove a friends Honda over 100 miles on the highway and I can tell you, it is a very loud van. I hear the new ones are better, but it rumbled a LOT on our rough texas slab roads. The GMs are quieter to my ear.
Cruise the GM van forums and you will rarely hear of troubles. Granted, they are there, but nothing like the Honda trouble forum.
If you go even moderately off-road say campgrounds or fields - stuff like that. The Honda is very low to the ground which helps handling but doesn't help from bottoming out on a rutted road. GM vans seem to have much more ground clearance.
Arm rests - driving the Honda on a long drive the driver's arm rest was way too low, seat was not very comfortable. The GM power seat rules, and the captain's chair arm rest is the same height as the door rest, very nice. I found the GM van much more comfortable.
Bottom line - drive yourself and decide.
Yes, they depreciate a lot. In my case, I used that to my advantage. Used ones are great buys. I like the Olds as it has everything like self leveling suspension.
You can read about the crash tests ad-nausem, so I won't bother on that topic. I've driven much less safe vehicles. The most important safety device is behind the wheel.
Good luck, both are decent vans, you can read good reviews of both here and on car-talk's site, etc.
DD
Can anyone give me any advice for travelling in the snow? We are going for a long weekend in the Sierra next month, and I need to get "chains" for the Odyssey--except I know I cannot use actual chains.
I drive in the snow infrequently, and try to drive in good weather when it is possible, but this will be my first snow trip in ANY minivan, and I am a little nervous. My questions are:
1. What are people using for snow traction in lieu of chains?
2. Any specific quirks of the Odyssey in the snow?
Thanks fellow Odyssey owners.
p.s. We also have a 2001 MPV, but thank goodness my wife drives it! The Honda is soooo much better!
INKY
Are current and potential Odyssey owners seeing the trend here? Either we have a lot of folks out there who figure by putting the competition down there vans will actually be worth more or these guys are gelous Odyssey owner want a bees. I can't really make it out but something certainly seems fishy.
Happy owner of a completely trouble free 2000 Ody EX and waiting for 02 Ody EX Navi to trade up.
I've got Michelin Arctic Alpens on my Ody - noticeable improvement. More stable through turns and stops; much better than w/ stock Michelin Symmetry all-seasons. Van's rear end would wiggle with all-seasons on slippery turns, snow tires stopped that.
I found the Traction Control pretty useful last year - I've got a steep driveway, great for getting started up a hill. Just remember that TCS only works up to about 18 mph. As minivans go, Ody with snow tires does very well as long as you drive within reason. I had no trouble going through unplowed Connecticut roads with up to six inches of fresh snow on them. Above that the van stays put, but then I've also got an Ford F-350 4x4 pickup. (The truck made it through 15" of snow last Feb. when Ody got plowed in.)
Have to be careful in deep snow with the Ody's relatively low ground clearance. Even though van is heavy you can still get the chassis hung up in the deep stuff. There are some mountain passes that won't let you through unless you've got tire chains. Honda doesn't recommend chains on Ody - they may damage van because of tight fender well clearances. You can use snow cables instead. Here's a link -
http://www.jcwhitney.com/productnoitem.jhtml?CATID=188156&BQ=jcw2
I used to live in snow belt of Central N.Y, (not the Sierras but still averaged 175 inches per winter). Learned a lot of respect for winter weather. Always be prepared with emergency kit in vehicle - blankets, non-perishable food, flashlight, w/ spare batteries, candles, matches, folding shovel, cell phone, deck of cards, etc. Make sure vehicle has full tank of gas, good battery, & snow tires, If you get caught in really bad weather - pull over in safe place and wait it out. Hope this helps
.
Could you give us your comparo of Ody vs MPV. It would be really interesting to hear an opinion of someone who actually owns both of them.
Thanks.
For instance, I like that the MPV's middle seat can slide to the side without lifting it (so my child seat can stay put), and the rear windows that open seem like a big plus.
DD's point about depreciation is valid, IMO. If you are buying used, it almost doesn't make sense to pay nearly the new price for an Odyssey that does not depreciate much at all. So buying new makes more sense, if you can afford it.
-juice
Ody does seem nice but I like our MPV best! ;-)
That said, the mechanism to move the seat in the MPV is nicer.
While overall crashworthiness of the MPV is good, Odyssey is heavier and has better crash and rollover ratings.
On the other hand, the MPV is a bargain. If you don't need the added space of the Odyssey, its a nice minivan at a great price.
I'll take a closer look when the 3.0l arrives. It's also getting a 5 speed auto and traction control, to keep competitive.
-juice
I'll add additional entries after I've had the van for a few weeks to let you all know my impressions.
In the NY/NJ area still long wait.