The problems mentioned with the DC minivans in the article only effect "some" 1996-2000 model year minivans. The article clearly states that the 2002 models (and I am assuming 2001 models) are not effected.
I'm about to do the "big" maintenance - timing belt, plugs, etc. I checked at my local auto parts store for the NGK PZFR5F-11 or ND PKJ16CR-L11 plugs. No store had them in stock and were quoting me about $20 per plug. What is the alternative? BTW, the check engine and TCS lights are both on again. The last time it was the EGR valve needed cleaning. That was at about 48k miles. The vehicle now has 97.5k. Regards, Phil
Maybe, but it's just typical DC quality. Every generation of DC vans have some kind of major problem that kills their customers, all the way back to the orginal one with the rear liftgate popping open in a rear crash killing little kids. Now they have graduated up to fires that can kill the whole family, and don't forget the new 01's with the leaking gas tank seal that dripped gas in the insurance crash tests. It' s possible to have a problem in an Odyssey, but at least I don't have to bet my life each time I get behind the wheel. Don't you wish you could say the same. Of course your DC van has a much prettier dash. Maybe they should have used some of that money to build a quality van.
You think I and the MILLIONS of other DC minivan owners out there bet out lives evertime we get behind the wheel? Of course not. Go look at a website where there are pictures of burnt up and crashed up cars. I'm sure you will see at least 1 Honda Odyssey right up there next to other makes.
How many minivans has DC sold? Over 9 million. How many minivans has Honda sold? Well I think they are working on 1 million now. Think of how many 96-00 model DC minivans out there and how many miles their owners have put on them without any trouble whatsoever. That number must be very large.
How many people of those 9 million that have bought DC minivans at some time are now dead due to some Chrysler related problem? Not many. Not many at all. Especially if you put that number over the total number of minivans Chrysler has sold.
Actually, this is really a DC issue and not an Oddysey issue, but the thread started here, so I'll post.
My '91 Grand Voyager spewed gasoline all over it's engine, and it turned out to be EXACTLY the o-rings shown in the illustration in the article. I had to pay myself, even though DC had recalled the Intrepids for EXACTLY the same problem. Fortunately mine did not go up in smoke.
Now I want reimbursed. I paid over $800 for repairs. I just went through all of my repair reciepts for this van and I can't believe I seriously considered buying another DC van! Quite an extensive list and many dollars spent.
DC should have fixed this problem with the fuel pipe leak a long time ago just as it should have with its faulty transmission. It took them about 10 years to really get some positive results from the minor changes they have been making to the 41TE transmission over the years. I believe 1999 was the first year where any real significant improvements in reliability could be seen.
Anyway, I forget who it was but one Odyssey owner suggested that even if you don't buy or like them, the presence of the Odyssey and Sienna in the marketplace are really helping improve the quality of every minivan on the market, especially Chrysler's. For example, I think a 2002 model DC minivan is probably the best made minivan Chrysler has ever produced since the first one in 1984, as a result of the increased competition (and mainly the Odyssey).
I can't get over the description of how that poor lady lost her life in her new 99 model year van. That is really a tragedy. Even if it was just a freak accident and/or that particular van was just not assembled right, it really makes you value life that much more. I'm glad Chrysler is going to FINALLY recall the effected minivans, or at least they say they will...
The fact that DCX has not taken action on a safety issue involving 96-2000 vans does not give me any warm fuzzys about how they would treat a safety issue on 2002, 2003 etc., vehicles. Caveat emptor is what it suggests to me. I like the DCX vans alot, but DCX's cavalier attitude toward this safety issue turns me off. rockycow
I had a 99 EX that was wrecked after about 15k mi and then Sienna (very nice also). Now with the 02 improvements we bought a Red Rock Pearl EX. Better sound system, more power, same hard plastic arm rests and dash-yuck. Nice color. Better seats. Nice lumbar. Security system standard now. Side airbags, no premium fuel. new steering wheel. But no discount. Rear disks do not seem to help over drums. Not sure of advantage here. Time will tell. I like the 5 speed auto --no lunge from gear 1-2. Yeah. INKY
After shopping for an gg EX for almost 2 months, I am getting calls from 3 dealers here willing to take $600.00 off with a free cargo tray in the past week. All 3 dealers have 2 to 4 EX sitting on their lots, and 1 of them has had 2 silver EX for more than 3 weeks. It seems like either people are not buying these vans(canceling orders)because of the slow economy or the production has gone up finally(in AL?). I probably will wait for a couple of weeks and see if I can get more discount.
Anybody knows where it costs less to install the TV/DVD? Fry quoted me $299.00 with an additional $30.00 for the wireless earphones. Those earphones come with the Panasonic TV/DVD purchase, but Fry wanted to charge extra to "activate" them. Do I need to pay the $30.00 extra to "activate" those earphones? Please advise.
Trevor has the correct spark plugs for $11.40 each on his web site.
As to your CEL and TCS lights going on, you probably need to remove the intake manifold and rebore the EGR port in it. My guess is that the EGR valve itself is just fine.
Expect to pay a pretty good penny for the timing belt replacement. I did mine a while back and it was in excess of $600, if I remember correctly. This included replacement of another belt and the water pump, which are apparently all recommended for change at the same time.
The only thing he ever does is trash the Odyssey and brags about his T&C. Although such thing are appropriate on the Odyseey to DC Vans comparison board I dodn't think they are appropriate here.
Fore those that are interested in the Odyssey here is one more review of the Odyssey:
just ordered at list-2002 ex--washington, d.c area--2/3 month wait, $500 deposit
not thrilled to pay list, but substantially equivalent sienna at 400 over invoice comes to just over 26. for another $1000 get a bigger and better driving van, dual power doors, disk brakes in back, traction control, fold down rear seats, 5 speed transmission, and more horsepower.
have searched far and wide on this board, but haven't found much information about new transmission. is it the same 5 speed put in the MDX? a slight modifcation from the 4 speed, a major modification from the 4 speed? If so how and why?
giving up a three year old oldsmobile intrigue-- we now have 2 kids, and wife has insisted on mini-van. liked intrigue a lot--solid car, drives extremely well (when purchased liked it much better than the accord (couldn't stand the accord's transmission lag, and much looser handling than intigue)
anyway, i digress. lookign forward to late feb/early march.
My '02 was pulling to the right. The dealership realigned one back wheel. Now it does steer better. But I notice the tire pressure in all 4 at 30 psi. The placard and manual say 36 psi. I called the dealership, & the advisor said keep it between 30 & 32. I am confused. Who is correct?
The manual says 35# for my 2000 EX. Just got back from the dealer tonight and he says they set the tires to 32#. I prefer 35 because I can go longer between putting air in my tires but the ride is not as good. He set my tires at 32# and did not check the spare because he said they did not have time to do that. At least he was honest.
I will put 35, and 60 in the spare, in my tires and that spare is a bear to put the air in.
FYI, most car tires have a narrow range of loads they carry, so tire pressure is pretty much fixed. Pickup trucks and such have a much wider range, and need to have a range of air pressures.
Full load - use MAX press listed to keep the tires from getting crushed and breaking belts (don't ask, I've done it).
Empty - Use a good deal less on a truck tire - how much is a function of the tire. Sort of a trial and error. Run a tire too high of inflation and it will bounce on the road more and wear out the center of the tread eventually. (yea, I've done that too) You can actually see the sides of the tires not contact the ground or run through a puddle to check the footprint.
What does this mean for you? For a minivan, pressure depends on what load you are carrying. Stay w/in the minimum and if in doubt, contact the mfg, they know the best info on their tire.
Placecard = 36 psi Manufactor recommended Tire MAX label = 44 psi Dealer Delivered psi 32 I think 36 is correct. 36 is one of the higher psi's I have ever seen in this class. 30-32 normal, but will go with 36. should save fuel if anything plus weather has been hot lately. You will loose 1 psi for every 10 degree temp drop outside. Make sure you check pressure COLD. Just added a leather steering wheel cover, nice but took 1.5 hours to put on, also front windows tinted now. Looks nice on Redrock Pearl. INKY
Thats interesting that for 2002 they recommend #36. My owners manual and the sticker on the car door, for my 2000 EX Odyssey say use #35 and #60 for the spare.
On the tires, Michelin Symmetry P215 65R16, it says max pressure #35 psi for max load of #1565.
I think that the car manufacturers are recommending max pressure to avoid a law suit, should you carry the max load, and also for max mpg. They do have a Fed mpg fleet figure to meet.
I would think that you could use a lower pressure, for lighter loads, and a better ride. The Ford Explorer went to the lower pressures to get a better ride, which caused them handling and safety problems.
The dealer, last night, set my tire pressures at #32, when I got an oil change, and said that is what they recommend. Since you will lose one to two psi, per month through the tire, I like to start out at #35 or #34 so I don't have to check my tires as often. Owners manual recommends checking pressure at least once a month but since it is a hassle I do it about every 2 months, at which time the pressure is at about #32 from the original #35.
As I was writing this the service manager called me and asked how I liked the service. I said it was very good, but just to have something to complain about, I had asked them to put air in the spare tire and they said they were too busy. So he said to drop by and they would do that. He says just because they are too busy is not a good reason, so I will do that today.
He also asked me to rate them excellent on the survey which I am going to be getting. I said yes I would, and I will. Excellent really means very good, in todays world, and they are hurt if I don't. As long as they are willing to work with me to correct problems, I will rate them excellent.
Instead of getting the Honda indash CD changer has anyone thought of getting the Nakamichi MB-75? It seems it is an AM/FM Radio + Amp + 6 disk indash CD changer all in a single radio slot on the dash. I begain researching this since I will soon be taking delivery of a an Odyssey with Navigation and only have a single radio slot available for a changer. On Yahoo shopping you can get this for about $429. It will also be a good upgrade from the standard Honda radio that everyone seems to be complaining about.
If you want a solid reason, it's the crash tests. Look here to peek at the IIHS crash test result - the dummy is basically a dead duck.
CR rates reliability as poor, so that doesn't help.
I actually rented a Montana when I took the family to Disney World in Florida (it's all they had), and the "check air bag" light came on almost right away, which was scary. Besides that, the engine is coarse and not very strong.
Besides price, I don't see that it has a lot going for it. I think you have a not so good van sprinkled with good features (leather, entertainment), but that still doesn't make it a good van at the core.
You need to look at resale. 3 years down the road, the GM will be worth maybe 13k, Honda Odysseys now 3 years old still go for 19-22K. There is a reason GM is cheaper even with your GM dollars. you will be sorry. INKY
I see the April 2001 Consumer Reports rates the Venture LS as a bar going through 90% of the VG area. Odyssey EX is about 80% through the E area. So it is about 0.9 rating points higher. You could go to your library and look up what CR says on the autos.
The Odyssey got a lot of improvements in 2002 and so it would probably be about 1 1/2 rating points higher then the Venture, is my guess.
I look at a vehicle purchase as a long term investment, so differences of a few thousand dollars are not very significant to me, when I consider the difference in $/yr. I may keep my Odyssey 7-10 yrs. My last car I kept 14 years.
The only downside of your proposal is that you will lose the use of the steering wheel-mounted volume and channel control buttons for the OEM CD/Radio. If you can live without that or have the electronics expertise to jury-rig something to make it work with the Nakamichi head unit, it sounds like a good idea.
I realize all of the posts here are anecdotal, but before you decide between the GM van and the Honda van spend some time reading the Honda Oddyssey Problems and the Venture, Sillhouete or Montana Problems forums.
Too often in the main forums people will defend their purchases which is human nature. In the problem forums people are discussing real issues with their vans. It helped me decide on what to purchase.
If I had read the problems board of ANY minivan (including Honda) I never would have purchased one!!! They can be pretty scary. You have to take what people say on all the boards here with a grain of salt. The other thing to consider is how the company stands behind their vehicle. As we all know, NO minivan is perfect and when there is a problem, it matters to me how I am treated. I get that input from both the problems and main board. With that said, for those who are considering a van, we have had 28,000 trouble free miles on our 2001 Odyssey EX - as I would expect from Honda.
OK, we don't have enough room here to list the numerous reasons to buy the Odyssey over the GM models but please make sure you visit the link that was placed on Post #3981. Before I bought my 2001 EX I printed off all the minivan crash photos and I cringed when I saw the GM pictures......ouch!
I took my Odyssey in to the dealer just to have them put air in the spare tire, as they had not done that with the oil change. Some guy hit my Odyssey as I was driving down there, so I should have done it myself, and will from now on. I figure the damage at $1,000 to $2,000. Also it took an hour for the dealer to do it. The service guy said ordinarily they would have to charge me about $35 to do that because it is so difficult to do, but they did it for free.
It would be great if someone made an extension to the tire air valve so you don't have to take the tire out to check it, or put air in it.
This is what you are looking for. They are tire inflaters used for the inside duals of motorhomes. They are about 8" long and should give you the extra length needed and are flexable. Only problem is I don't know if you can get just one.
After picking up my kids (ages 4 and 6)in my new Odyssey yesterday I noticed when seated (in car seats) that they could not reach their things on the floor nor put them in the middle seat between them as in our sedan. Instead, all of their toys were piled on the laps and kept falling on the ground (which they could not reach). Any solutions for the middle row? I though I could put a plastic crate upside down between them, as a table, so that they could set things on it? The ideal solution would be another tray table like the one between the front seats.
Thank you for your input. That is the type of thing I was looking for, a flexible hose type device. I may go to the JC Whitney catalog, if they are still in business, and on line, and see if they have something like that.
As it stands, to check the spare you have to:
1. Move the front seats forward 2. Remove the floor door mat flap 3. Lift up the floor door and hook it to the front seat. 4. Unscrew the tire and take it out and turn it over 5. Put air in it. 6. Put it back, making sure you have got it just right in there so you can screw it in.
7. Put everything back.
My dealer said he could not do that for free every time I had an oil change. He said it was part of the 15,000 mile service, but I did not get if he charges for it at that time or not.
After todays events, I will just do it myself. I guess thats what I get for being lazy.
We travel for long distances quite often (28,000 miles on a 2001 EX) so we purchased two organizers from handaaccessories.com (I'm pretty sure that's the name) that hang off the back of the front seats. My two kids can reach them (one is in a booster seat and one isn't) and there are lots of pockets, places to put cups and even a fold down tray to hold paper/markers/food whatever. The only problem with them is that we found we needed to remove the handle on the back of the seats for the organizers to lie flat. They cost about $25.00 a piece. Just an option.
I just got a used GM van, a loaded to the gills Olds GLS '98. I happen to like it a lot. But I also got it for $10.8k and only has cosmetic blemishes. Looks new.
The Honda is a highly rated van, but it is not likely to be as trouble free as you would expect from Honda. A short tour of the troubles forum for Honda vans ought to be proof enough. Especially transmissions and steering pull, power door trouble, etc.
GM vans are not likey to be as "safe" ( relative term - if you really are nuts about safety, you wouldn't be driving on our roads with our poor drivers!), but GM vans have advantages. They have a great transmission. GM automaticsa are the best in world. Other mfg's buy from GM for some models. I'd rate GM vans as least likely to blow a tranny and leave you stranded.
The motor is torquey, and thus doesn't need to Rev a lot. Most errands and stuff you're not racing in a gran prix with the motor at 5,000 rpm, you're just off idle stop light to stoplight. Why do you need gran prix motor like a honda? I grant that the new Honda motors are great power producing motors that love to rev and will out-run a GM on the highway, if that means something to you while you're hauling the family to the Pizza Hut. I'd like to have 500 hp if I could, but the GM vans run well and will cruise nicely at 80mph w/o strain and get 25mpg which for most folks is what they are looking for. The GM motors also don't have timing belts to change or all the complexity. At 200k worth of miles, my money would be on the GM motor needing less work.
The dissappearing seat is a great idea, and it would be nice, but also see how comfortable it is before saying that's the best rear seat.
Also, I drove a friends Honda over 100 miles on the highway and I can tell you, it is a very loud van. I hear the new ones are better, but it rumbled a LOT on our rough texas slab roads. The GMs are quieter to my ear.
Cruise the GM van forums and you will rarely hear of troubles. Granted, they are there, but nothing like the Honda trouble forum.
If you go even moderately off-road say campgrounds or fields - stuff like that. The Honda is very low to the ground which helps handling but doesn't help from bottoming out on a rutted road. GM vans seem to have much more ground clearance.
Arm rests - driving the Honda on a long drive the driver's arm rest was way too low, seat was not very comfortable. The GM power seat rules, and the captain's chair arm rest is the same height as the door rest, very nice. I found the GM van much more comfortable.
Bottom line - drive yourself and decide.
Yes, they depreciate a lot. In my case, I used that to my advantage. Used ones are great buys. I like the Olds as it has everything like self leveling suspension.
You can read about the crash tests ad-nausem, so I won't bother on that topic. I've driven much less safe vehicles. The most important safety device is behind the wheel.
Good luck, both are decent vans, you can read good reviews of both here and on car-talk's site, etc.
Can anyone give me any advice for travelling in the snow? We are going for a long weekend in the Sierra next month, and I need to get "chains" for the Odyssey--except I know I cannot use actual chains.
I drive in the snow infrequently, and try to drive in good weather when it is possible, but this will be my first snow trip in ANY minivan, and I am a little nervous. My questions are:
1. What are people using for snow traction in lieu of chains?
2. Any specific quirks of the Odyssey in the snow?
Thanks fellow Odyssey owners.
p.s. We also have a 2001 MPV, but thank goodness my wife drives it! The Honda is soooo much better!
having just sold our Sienna, I was amazed at how much stuff will fit in this van. Under the rear seat is bonus space. Under the front seats is bonus space. The rear well is especially deep and holds a lot over Sienna. Sienna is more solid van with better and softer interior materials but the Honda impresses with storage, and flexibility. INKY
I can understand if these folks are making their comments on the comparison boards bewteen two vehicles, but these folks seem to be owners of vans now, are not in the market for a new one, and are very happy with what they have. So why are they here on the Odyssey board talking about how great there vans are abd how trouble prone the Honda is and the industry leading 5 star safety rating of the Honda is really not importatnt since you will never use. And some guy the other day actually said well if you ever have a head on collision with an 18 wheeler doing 70 miles an hour it wouldn't matter how safe the vans is you will be dead.
Are current and potential Odyssey owners seeing the trend here? Either we have a lot of folks out there who figure by putting the competition down there vans will actually be worth more or these guys are gelous Odyssey owner want a bees. I can't really make it out but something certainly seems fishy.
Happy owner of a completely trouble free 2000 Ody EX and waiting for 02 Ody EX Navi to trade up.
Driving van's a bit different than car, it's heavier and longer so you've got to be more prudent when starting, stopping, and going around corners. Even with ABS it still's gonna take longer to stop as well. Van does ok with stock tires, but can still be somewhat skittish on slippery packed snow/ice roads.
I've got Michelin Arctic Alpens on my Ody - noticeable improvement. More stable through turns and stops; much better than w/ stock Michelin Symmetry all-seasons. Van's rear end would wiggle with all-seasons on slippery turns, snow tires stopped that.
I found the Traction Control pretty useful last year - I've got a steep driveway, great for getting started up a hill. Just remember that TCS only works up to about 18 mph. As minivans go, Ody with snow tires does very well as long as you drive within reason. I had no trouble going through unplowed Connecticut roads with up to six inches of fresh snow on them. Above that the van stays put, but then I've also got an Ford F-350 4x4 pickup. (The truck made it through 15" of snow last Feb. when Ody got plowed in.)
Have to be careful in deep snow with the Ody's relatively low ground clearance. Even though van is heavy you can still get the chassis hung up in the deep stuff. There are some mountain passes that won't let you through unless you've got tire chains. Honda doesn't recommend chains on Ody - they may damage van because of tight fender well clearances. You can use snow cables instead. Here's a link -
I used to live in snow belt of Central N.Y, (not the Sierras but still averaged 175 inches per winter). Learned a lot of respect for winter weather. Always be prepared with emergency kit in vehicle - blankets, non-perishable food, flashlight, w/ spare batteries, candles, matches, folding shovel, cell phone, deck of cards, etc. Make sure vehicle has full tank of gas, good battery, & snow tires, If you get caught in really bad weather - pull over in safe place and wait it out. Hope this helps
I was going to ask the same thing, Rudy. Besides the obvious differences (more power and space), what else makes the Ody better? I'm curious because I'm considering both of them.
For instance, I like that the MPV's middle seat can slide to the side without lifting it (so my child seat can stay put), and the rear windows that open seem like a big plus.
DD's point about depreciation is valid, IMO. If you are buying used, it almost doesn't make sense to pay nearly the new price for an Odyssey that does not depreciate much at all. So buying new makes more sense, if you can afford it.
Unless this has changed, I believe the MPV does not have tether anchors integrated onto the captains chairs. Using LATCH and tether, one can easily move the Odyssey 2nd-row passenger captain's chairs inboard, outboard or remove them completely without affecting the installation of the carseat. Moving the captain's chair forward or backward will require an adjustment of the tether strap length, though.
That said, the mechanism to move the seat in the MPV is nicer.
While overall crashworthiness of the MPV is good, Odyssey is heavier and has better crash and rollover ratings.
On the other hand, the MPV is a bargain. If you don't need the added space of the Odyssey, its a nice minivan at a great price.
Gotcha, but I was hoping to be able to move with seat with the child still in it (to let others in, for example), which seems like it would be possible in the MPV.
I'll take a closer look when the 3.0l arrives. It's also getting a 5 speed auto and traction control, to keep competitive.
I've been reading this forum with interest for weeks now. I thought I would finally add an entry because tomorrow I will be taking ownership of a silver 2002 Odyssey EX. Had to wait 2 weeks for it to get built and delivered. I'll add additional entries after I've had the van for a few weeks to let you all know my impressions.
I have been waiting 2 1/2 months for my Silver Ody EXL Navi. The dealer did give me the VIN number but still don't know exactly when it will arrive. I hope it is real soon getting impatient.
We've had our Ody. for 4 months now and while I'm quite impressed with the van, there are a few things I wish Honda would have considered: 1)Power windows with auto up/down like the new CRV 2) better sound system with tape and cd standard for EX 3) a model with the Navi and the DVD would be awesome! 4) Doors that lock automatically when you reach 5 mph (like alot of GM cars) 5) temperature control for rear seats and 6) the ability to lock the doors with the remote before the power slider closes completely. Nit-picky, I know. Just trying to make a great van better.
I would love to report that my 01 oddy is a great vehicle. I bought it because it was rated so well. After driving it for 1 year and 10000 miles later, all i can say is what a dissapointment. Where is the quality? My tranny downshifts harshly at light acceleration after slowing down, already leaking, gas mileage sucks, windows constantly fogging up and dealers wont recognize any of my problems. Maybe my expectations were too high for this van but do you blame me? After all I was buying a Honda!
Comments
rockycow
Regards,
Phil
s possible to have a problem in an Odyssey, but at least I don't have to bet my life each time I get behind the wheel. Don't you wish you could say the same. Of course your DC van has a much prettier dash. Maybe they should have used some of that money to build a quality van.
How many minivans has DC sold? Over 9 million. How many minivans has Honda sold? Well I think they are working on 1 million now. Think of how many 96-00 model DC minivans out there and how many miles their owners have put on them without any trouble whatsoever. That number must be very large.
How many people of those 9 million that have bought DC minivans at some time are now dead due to some Chrysler related problem? Not many. Not many at all. Especially if you put that number over the total number of minivans Chrysler has sold.
Just putting things into perspective for you.
-Adam
My '91 Grand Voyager spewed gasoline all over it's engine, and it turned out to be EXACTLY the o-rings shown in the illustration in the article. I had to pay myself, even though DC had recalled the Intrepids for EXACTLY the same problem. Fortunately mine did not go up in smoke.
Now I want reimbursed. I paid over $800 for repairs. I just went through all of my repair reciepts for this van and I can't believe I seriously considered buying another DC van! Quite an extensive list and many dollars spent.
And now, back to Oddyssey issues.
Anyway, I forget who it was but one Odyssey owner suggested that even if you don't buy or like them, the presence of the Odyssey and Sienna in the marketplace are really helping improve the quality of every minivan on the market, especially Chrysler's. For example, I think a 2002 model DC minivan is probably the best made minivan Chrysler has ever produced since the first one in 1984, as a result of the increased competition (and mainly the Odyssey).
I can't get over the description of how that poor lady lost her life in her new 99 model year van. That is really a tragedy. Even if it was just a freak accident and/or that particular van was just not assembled right, it really makes you value life that much more. I'm glad Chrysler is going to FINALLY recall the effected minivans, or at least they say they will...
-Adam
2000 Town & Country LX
rockycow
Better sound system, more power, same hard plastic arm rests and dash-yuck. Nice color. Better seats. Nice lumbar. Security system standard now. Side airbags, no premium fuel. new steering wheel. But no discount. Rear disks do not seem to help over drums. Not sure of advantage here. Time will tell. I like the 5 speed auto --no lunge from gear 1-2. Yeah.
INKY
Anybody knows where it costs less to install the TV/DVD? Fry quoted me $299.00 with an additional $30.00 for the wireless earphones. Those earphones come with the Panasonic TV/DVD purchase, but Fry wanted to charge extra to "activate" them. Do I need to pay the $30.00 extra to "activate" those earphones? Please advise.
http://www.handa-accessories.com/
Trevor has the correct spark plugs for $11.40 each on his web site.
As to your CEL and TCS lights going on, you probably need to remove the intake manifold and rebore the EGR port in it. My guess is that the EGR valve itself is just fine.
Expect to pay a pretty good penny for the timing belt replacement. I did mine a while back and it was in excess of $600, if I remember correctly. This included replacement of another belt and the water pump, which are apparently all recommended for change at the same time.
Fore those that are interested in the Odyssey here is one more review of the Odyssey:
http://pc99.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.hbs?myrec=3
not thrilled to pay list, but substantially equivalent sienna at 400 over invoice comes to just over 26. for another $1000 get a bigger and better driving van, dual power doors, disk brakes in back, traction control, fold down rear seats, 5 speed transmission, and more horsepower.
have searched far and wide on this board, but haven't found much information about new transmission. is it the same 5 speed put in the MDX? a slight modifcation from the 4 speed, a major modification from the 4 speed? If so how and why?
giving up a three year old oldsmobile intrigue-- we now have 2 kids, and wife has insisted on mini-van. liked intrigue a lot--solid car, drives extremely well (when purchased liked it much better than the accord (couldn't stand the accord's transmission lag, and much looser handling than intigue)
anyway, i digress. lookign forward to late feb/early march.
-juice
I will put 35, and 60 in the spare, in my tires and that spare is a bear to put the air in.
Full load - use MAX press listed to keep the tires from getting crushed and breaking belts (don't ask, I've done it).
Empty - Use a good deal less on a truck tire - how much is a function of the tire. Sort of a trial and error. Run a tire too high of inflation and it will bounce on the road more and wear out the center of the tread eventually. (yea, I've done that too) You can actually see the sides of the tires not contact the ground or run through a puddle to check the footprint.
What does this mean for you? For a minivan, pressure depends on what load you are carrying. Stay w/in the minimum and if in doubt, contact the mfg, they know the best info on their tire.
DD
Tire MAX label = 44 psi
Dealer Delivered psi 32
I think 36 is correct. 36 is one of the higher psi's I have ever seen in this class. 30-32 normal, but will go with 36. should save fuel if anything plus weather has been hot lately. You will loose 1 psi for every 10 degree temp drop outside. Make sure you check pressure COLD.
Just added a leather steering wheel cover, nice but took 1.5 hours to put on, also front windows tinted now. Looks nice on Redrock Pearl.
INKY
-juice
On the tires, Michelin Symmetry P215 65R16, it says max pressure #35 psi for max load of #1565.
I think that the car manufacturers are recommending max pressure to avoid a law suit, should you carry the max load, and also for max mpg. They do have a Fed mpg fleet figure to meet.
I would think that you could use a lower pressure, for lighter loads, and a better ride. The Ford Explorer went to the lower pressures to get a better ride, which caused them handling and safety problems.
The dealer, last night, set my tire pressures at #32, when I got an oil change, and said that is what they recommend. Since you will lose one to two psi, per month through the tire, I like to start out at #35 or #34 so I don't have to check my tires as often. Owners manual recommends checking pressure at least once a month but since it is a hassle I do it about every 2 months, at which time the pressure is at about #32 from the original #35.
As I was writing this the service manager called me and asked how I liked the service. I said it was very good, but just to have something to complain about, I had asked them to put air in the spare tire and they said they were too busy. So he said to drop by and they would do that. He says just because they are too busy is not a good reason, so I will do that today.
He also asked me to rate them excellent on the survey which I am going to be getting. I said yes I would, and I will. Excellent really means very good, in todays world, and they are hurt if I don't. As long as they are willing to work with me to correct problems, I will rate them excellent.
http://www.nakamichi.com/auto/musicbank/mb_75.htm
I pretty much accept that the Odyssey is the best van on the market. My question is at what price do I consider something else?
I'm considering a Chevy Venture Warner Brother loaded with all options. The invoice is
$29307
-2000 rebate
-2352 GM dollars
$24955. I can probably buy for $25400 or even less.
I'm looking at the Honday EX. No leather and no entertainment system. MSRP is $27190 and if I'm lucky I can maybe find one for $26700.
So I'm looking roughly at a $2300 difference in cost. In addition the Venture has the entertainment system and leather.
Since this is the Odyssey discussion I figure I should get some good reasons to still buy the Odyssey.
Thanks for any help.
CR rates reliability as poor, so that doesn't help.
I actually rented a Montana when I took the family to Disney World in Florida (it's all they had), and the "check air bag" light came on almost right away, which was scary. Besides that, the engine is coarse and not very strong.
Besides price, I don't see that it has a lot going for it. I think you have a not so good van sprinkled with good features (leather, entertainment), but that still doesn't make it a good van at the core.
-juice
There is a reason GM is cheaper even with your GM dollars. you will be sorry.
INKY
The Odyssey got a lot of improvements in 2002 and so it would probably be about 1 1/2 rating points higher then the Venture, is my guess.
I look at a vehicle purchase as a long term investment, so differences of a few thousand dollars are not very significant to me, when I consider the difference in $/yr. I may keep my Odyssey 7-10 yrs. My last car I kept 14 years.
Richard
I realize all of the posts here are anecdotal, but before you decide between the GM van and the Honda van spend some time reading the Honda Oddyssey Problems and the Venture, Sillhouete or Montana Problems forums.
Too often in the main forums people will defend their purchases which is human nature. In the problem forums people are discussing real issues with their vans. It helped me decide on what to purchase.
It would be great if someone made an extension to the tire air valve so you don't have to take the tire out to check it, or put air in it.
Does anyone know if they make such a thing?
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=6217&src=SRCH&tcode=37
Also at www.Wheelmasters.com
As it stands, to check the spare you have to:
1. Move the front seats forward
2. Remove the floor door mat flap
3. Lift up the floor door and hook it to the front seat.
4. Unscrew the tire and take it out and turn it over
5. Put air in it.
6. Put it back, making sure you have got it just right in there so you can screw it in.
7. Put everything back.
My dealer said he could not do that for free every time I had an oil change. He said it was part of the 15,000 mile service, but I did not get if he charges for it at that time or not.
After todays events, I will just do it myself. I guess thats what I get for being lazy.
The Honda is a highly rated van, but it is not likely to be as trouble free as you would expect from Honda. A short tour of the troubles forum for Honda vans ought to be proof enough. Especially transmissions and steering pull, power door trouble, etc.
GM vans are not likey to be as "safe" ( relative term - if you really are nuts about safety, you wouldn't be driving on our roads with our poor drivers!), but GM vans have advantages. They have a great transmission. GM automaticsa are the best in world. Other mfg's buy from GM for some models. I'd rate GM vans as least likely to blow a tranny and leave you stranded.
The motor is torquey, and thus doesn't need to Rev a lot. Most errands and stuff you're not racing in a gran prix with the motor at 5,000 rpm, you're just off idle stop light to stoplight. Why do you need gran prix motor like a honda? I grant that the new Honda motors are great power producing motors that love to rev and will out-run a GM on the highway, if that means something to you while you're hauling the family to the Pizza Hut. I'd like to have 500 hp if I could, but the GM vans run well and will cruise nicely at 80mph w/o strain and get 25mpg which for most folks is what they are looking for. The GM motors also don't have timing belts to change or all the complexity. At 200k worth of miles, my money would be on the GM motor needing less work.
The dissappearing seat is a great idea, and it would be nice, but also see how comfortable it is before saying that's the best rear seat.
Also, I drove a friends Honda over 100 miles on the highway and I can tell you, it is a very loud van. I hear the new ones are better, but it rumbled a LOT on our rough texas slab roads. The GMs are quieter to my ear.
Cruise the GM van forums and you will rarely hear of troubles. Granted, they are there, but nothing like the Honda trouble forum.
If you go even moderately off-road say campgrounds or fields - stuff like that. The Honda is very low to the ground which helps handling but doesn't help from bottoming out on a rutted road. GM vans seem to have much more ground clearance.
Arm rests - driving the Honda on a long drive the driver's arm rest was way too low, seat was not very comfortable. The GM power seat rules, and the captain's chair arm rest is the same height as the door rest, very nice. I found the GM van much more comfortable.
Bottom line - drive yourself and decide.
Yes, they depreciate a lot. In my case, I used that to my advantage. Used ones are great buys. I like the Olds as it has everything like self leveling suspension.
You can read about the crash tests ad-nausem, so I won't bother on that topic. I've driven much less safe vehicles. The most important safety device is behind the wheel.
Good luck, both are decent vans, you can read good reviews of both here and on car-talk's site, etc.
DD
Can anyone give me any advice for travelling in the snow? We are going for a long weekend in the Sierra next month, and I need to get "chains" for the Odyssey--except I know I cannot use actual chains.
I drive in the snow infrequently, and try to drive in good weather when it is possible, but this will be my first snow trip in ANY minivan, and I am a little nervous. My questions are:
1. What are people using for snow traction in lieu of chains?
2. Any specific quirks of the Odyssey in the snow?
Thanks fellow Odyssey owners.
p.s. We also have a 2001 MPV, but thank goodness my wife drives it! The Honda is soooo much better!
INKY
Are current and potential Odyssey owners seeing the trend here? Either we have a lot of folks out there who figure by putting the competition down there vans will actually be worth more or these guys are gelous Odyssey owner want a bees. I can't really make it out but something certainly seems fishy.
Happy owner of a completely trouble free 2000 Ody EX and waiting for 02 Ody EX Navi to trade up.
I've got Michelin Arctic Alpens on my Ody - noticeable improvement. More stable through turns and stops; much better than w/ stock Michelin Symmetry all-seasons. Van's rear end would wiggle with all-seasons on slippery turns, snow tires stopped that.
I found the Traction Control pretty useful last year - I've got a steep driveway, great for getting started up a hill. Just remember that TCS only works up to about 18 mph. As minivans go, Ody with snow tires does very well as long as you drive within reason. I had no trouble going through unplowed Connecticut roads with up to six inches of fresh snow on them. Above that the van stays put, but then I've also got an Ford F-350 4x4 pickup. (The truck made it through 15" of snow last Feb. when Ody got plowed in.)
Have to be careful in deep snow with the Ody's relatively low ground clearance. Even though van is heavy you can still get the chassis hung up in the deep stuff. There are some mountain passes that won't let you through unless you've got tire chains. Honda doesn't recommend chains on Ody - they may damage van because of tight fender well clearances. You can use snow cables instead. Here's a link -
http://www.jcwhitney.com/productnoitem.jhtml?CATID=188156&BQ=jcw2
I used to live in snow belt of Central N.Y, (not the Sierras but still averaged 175 inches per winter). Learned a lot of respect for winter weather. Always be prepared with emergency kit in vehicle - blankets, non-perishable food, flashlight, w/ spare batteries, candles, matches, folding shovel, cell phone, deck of cards, etc. Make sure vehicle has full tank of gas, good battery, & snow tires, If you get caught in really bad weather - pull over in safe place and wait it out. Hope this helps
.
Could you give us your comparo of Ody vs MPV. It would be really interesting to hear an opinion of someone who actually owns both of them.
Thanks.
For instance, I like that the MPV's middle seat can slide to the side without lifting it (so my child seat can stay put), and the rear windows that open seem like a big plus.
DD's point about depreciation is valid, IMO. If you are buying used, it almost doesn't make sense to pay nearly the new price for an Odyssey that does not depreciate much at all. So buying new makes more sense, if you can afford it.
-juice
Ody does seem nice but I like our MPV best! ;-)
That said, the mechanism to move the seat in the MPV is nicer.
While overall crashworthiness of the MPV is good, Odyssey is heavier and has better crash and rollover ratings.
On the other hand, the MPV is a bargain. If you don't need the added space of the Odyssey, its a nice minivan at a great price.
I'll take a closer look when the 3.0l arrives. It's also getting a 5 speed auto and traction control, to keep competitive.
-juice
I'll add additional entries after I've had the van for a few weeks to let you all know my impressions.
In the NY/NJ area still long wait.