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I think if you are looking for serious towing, one of the bigger trucks would suite you best. A snow-mobile or sun-fish would probably go pretty easily though.
As far as cargo capacity, 80 or 90 cu feet, make no difference if it can only handle 800-1000 lbs. plus the driver. 4 200 pound adults, adn 200 lbs of gear is very easy to pile in. The load capacity is a very important number when factoring in how much it can really carry.
Nope, didn't say it's just based on equipment, though equipment is important. Everyone has to draw their own conclusion. To the original points, I would not buy a Civic simply because it doesn't have head protection, while some of its competitors do. But I'd buy a higher-riding vehicle (like the Pilot) without head protection because I do think the injury risk is lower. Some folks wouldn't, though.
sbcooke:
The 2000 MDX's payload rating is 1,265 pounds. The Pilot's may be similar. The Toyota Highlander V6 4WD has a payload limit of 1,105 pounds. The 4WD Explorers have a payload of about 1,452 - 1,462 pounds. 4WD Expeditions are 1,544 - 1,635 pounds. You bring up a good point, it's not just about cubic feet. I think Dateline NBC had a feature a while ago about the dangers of driving with an overloaded (from a payload weight standpoint) vehicle.
Beyond cubic feet, useable space is another consideration. The good news is that the MDX has a lot of useable capacity, as measured in Car & Driver's "beer case" test, where they stack boxes and do not exceed the height of the rear seat much. The Pilot should do somewhat better because Honda seems to have found more useful interior space in it. Though some of that will be offset by the fact that some of the cubic feet will come from the more upright rear lid. That helps with moving furniture but not with stackin' beer since it shouldn't be up that high.
FWIW, I think that most people won't push the payload limits in a vehicle like this. Anyone serious about hauling heavy stuff will know better than to use a Pilot/MDX/Highlander... Or if they do have a need, they'll use a trailer. I know, I know... never underestimate the stupidity of the average person... But I doubt it would be a problem for the average buyer based on need.
Thought payload is a valid consideration, it's been my experience that cubic footage is a more important measure. There's lots of stuff that is big, but not heavy. These ten trash cans probably weighed less than 100 lbs.
I agree with a few things. Particular bits of safety tech have been slow to reach us here in the US and Honda is not the uncontested leader. But I wouldn't base an opinion on a car with equipment as the sole criterion. That's like saying that a van with 200 hp will out accelerate a small car with 160 hp simply because the van has more power. HP is only part of the story. In this case, safety equipment is only part of the story. Honda seems to be doing quite well with structural safety; the other (not so sexy) part of that story.
My agreement said "accessories at buyer's discretion" but didn't go into the add-on packages which technically aren't accessories. So I was certainly vulnerable there but my dealership didn't try to pull anything. I guess one could try to word it more specifically to include add-ons?
Varmint:
You bring up a good point about structure. One thing I'd like to see is Honda/Acura show pictures with actual rollover testing of the Pilot/MDX. MB isn't shy about showing footage of them rolling over their SUV several times with no crushing. I hear that Lexus wanted to copy the MB "Staying Alive" commercial, but could not copy the rollover portion because the RX300 could not take that kind of punishment without roof pillars collapsing. I've seen some pretty horrendous photos of RX300 rollovers (though you have to take each individual photo with a grain of salt since the circumstance of each rollover is different -- however, when you see enough of them you get a general idea).
varmint & sbcooke:
It always comes down to how one uses a vehicle. I agree that having cubic feet arranged in a positive fashion (not in odd nooks and crannies) helps with big bulky items like furniture pieces.
On the other hand, having useable cargo room helps tons with trips to Costco when you have many assorted boxes and odds'n'ends. That kind of stuff isn't safely packed into the upper reaches of a cargo compartment.
I guess the ideal design is to have sufficient amounts of both. Either that or put a huge partition in the back, but that's what covered pickups are for ;-)
Now, if you're driving around with five adult males 250 lbs, you don't have any payload left in the MDX and possibly the Pilot, but the assumption is that they already drank the beer, save for the driver.
tidester
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SUVs
Have seen the interior seating of the new 2003 Ford Expedition with all seats folded flat and they state 110 cu ft. It is interesting how many vehicles are moving towards non removable fold down seats.
Cheers
I'm sure most of you have seen the pictures from the show, believe me they don't do the pilot justice. Great looking vehicle. Good luck getting one come July, If you think the waiting line was long for the MDX - this will be twice as long. Another notable, the Lexus had the G470 (or the 4Runner replacement), this is the same sharing as the MDX/Pilot. The price on the new 4Runner will most likely be higher and no one know when it will be released.
Looks like Honda is cross-comparing with the classes: "The wheel track is reported to be the widest in the midsize SUV class and should contribute to a solid feeling of stability. Not only that, the Pilot will likely prove nimble thanks to its four-wheel independent suspension and the fact that it's the lightest eight-passenger SUV on the market." - From the Edmunds autoshow coverage.
Maybe I misread it earlier, but I thought they were comparing track, cargo, and weight to other mid-sized SUVs. This stipulates "8 passenger" for the weight.
And what about the e-brake handle that was on the console?
Regards
Falcon - I think it's safe to bet it'll be about the same as the MDX. It's coming out in Spring.
Bob
Also, the Expedition offers legitimate off-road and excellent towing capability, as compared to that of the Pilot. Yes, I am comparing a full-size to a mid-size, but I bet in terms of width, they'll be very close in size. And... width often determines one's driving impression of size, more so than length.
Bob
Bob - I've always thought that seat height would leave the largest impression.
In terms of passenger and and cargo capacity, the Pilot may compare with the Expy, but I think that price, platform, towing, and other differences will keep them apart.
The fact that Honda is offering an 8-passenger vehicle, means that it does want some full-size SUV customers. The word Tahoe has often been mentioned as a competitor, well, so should Expedition—especially now that I've seen the improvements made to the '03 model.
Bob
The Expo should get 13 mpg - according to a report I've seen. The Honda will get 1-3 mpg better than the MD-X. And on regular gas I'll bet.
The Honda, like the Acura, will also prove faster and handle better than the Ford. Towing and a little more room will be the Ford's advantage.
Why do you expect it to get better mileage than the MDX, and on regular fuel? It has the same premium gas engine as the MDX, and it will be larger and heavier. That all points to worse gas mileage.
Not trying to start a fight here between the Pilot and Expedition. Just pointing out similarities and differences. The Pilot "could" attract Expedition customers who don't really need all the capability of an Expedition. ON the other hand, those who like the Pilot, but want more capability, will be lured by the Expedition. That's all.
Bob
Fuel - Honda usually reserves premium-fueled engines for its premium division. Looky here:
Headlining the changes is an increase in horsepower. The 3.5-liter VTEC-equipped V6 now produces 240 horsepower and 242 pound-feet of torque, an increase from 210 hp and 229 lb-ft. Honda says the revised engine provides for quicker acceleration and no longer requires premium fuel. It is connected to a new five-speed automatic transmission (upgraded from a four-speed) that offers improved shift quality and efficiency.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/honda/odyssey/ex4drminivan35l6cyl5a/overview.html?id=lin0006
As for the Expo advantage off-road - the Amphicar could swim, did that make it a boat? OK, that's an exaggeration, but everyone knows these vehicles will stay on the tarmac almost w/o exception and neither will be used for rock climbing if anyone has any sense.
Bob
Actually, with the computer systems you can probably run the Acura on regular too - with reduced perf.
A neighbor has an Audi A6 2.8 and runs it on regular to no ill mech effect. The Audi is a slug either way, just more so with regular.
Bob
Outside - no.
Inside - yes.
Based on the platform and drivetrain of Acura's MDX, the Pilot is smaller outside but roomier inside than its more luxurious cousin.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/48583/page007.html
One thing I'm not wild about the 3.5 engine, is that it has a timing belt that will have to be replaced at some point, and that is costly to do. I wish it had a timing chain instead.
Bob
Bob
The first question that comes to mind, if this is true, is why is the premium MDX smaller inside, and a 7-passenger vehicle; and make the mainstream Pilot (seem) more attractive by making it larger inside and offering 8-passenger room. If I were an Acura dealer, I'd be asking that very question...
Bob
The Pilot is aimed at the Highlander/Explorer market. Remember, the Highlander offers more room at less price than the Lexus model that shares components.
I really don't think Honda buyers expect to have to buy premium fuel - except in the sports models like the S2000 and the last Civic Si.
Look at what Honda does with the TL and the Accord V6. TL gets the perf edge.
The pictures and articles seem to indicate, they moved the front passengers forward an inch or two, added an inch or two of width on 3rd row seat, made the truck longer by a few and made the outside a little boxier.
It seems pretty easy to get 8 passenger seating, since the MDX probably already has room to make the same claims.
As for the size of the Pilot - don't forget that when Acura showcased the prototype MDX, it was actually a 7/8th scale model. I suspect the Pilot will be bigger in its true form.
True, but the TL gets a different engine from that of the Accord. The TL's is a 3.2L, while the Accord gets a 3.0L. The MDX and Pilot share the exact same engine.
Bob
If that were the case, why not do it? If it's good for Honda, it should also be good for Acura.
Bob
I believe the the MDX's wheelbase is around 111." I would expect the Pilot's wheelbase to be longer than 111."
Bob
Maybe it is just an image thing, the Pilot is the everyday SUV and the MDX is luxury/sport SUV?