Honda Odyssey 1999 - 2004

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Comments

  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    "Of course this helps China and other rogue countries with their targeting, too."

    Not to worry about this. They now have the capability to turn off selective availability (which is the error) for friendly countries only. That's why North Americans (among others) now have access to much more accurate - but still not military precision, of course - GPS data practically overnight. Countries that are considered a threat still have the S.A error.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    You can't really compare how often traction control activates to how often ABS activates. They're completely different, even though they're controlled by the same computer module.

    You are correct that because of the weight transfer (backwards) upon acceleration, the front tires have less grip, and hence are more likely to break loose. Just imagine what happenes uphill when the slope naturally causes most of the weight to move backwards anyway! I bet you know since you live in Denver :-) Slow and steady acceleration should minimise wheelspin and hence less TCS intervention.

    Yes, a good set (of 4) winter tires will most definitely help to reduce TCS activation as well as ABS activation since the level of traction is increased. Personally, I recommend the Michelin Arctic Alpins or the Bridgestone Blizzaksin perhaps slightly narrower than stock tire size (try to get the same tire diameter as the stock tires though). Try http://www.tirerack.com/snow/changeover.jsp for their winter tire and wheel combinations for your Odyssey.

    Hope this helps!

    Drew
    Host
    Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • jampressjampress Member Posts: 2
    Has anyone purchase the audio/video system from anyone other than the dealer. If yes where and what price paid???
  • macodymacody Member Posts: 18
    Purchased our 99 EX on July 31 99; we now have 38100 miles in all terrain and conditions (live in Texas with trips to Nebraska, Colorado, Florida, New Mexico).

    No problems with transmission; no problem with heating/air conditioning; no problem with TCS (it was GREAT in Colorado and Nebraska in the snow/ice); replaced the Firestone tires in November and are happy with the replacement (Michelin); road noise minimal; could use better speaker system.

    Happy with the van. Just wanted y'all to know there are probably lots of ODY EX's out there that have no problems.

    Mac

    Hey Marjoe: You back in here????
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    exindenver - I second what drew noted about tirerack.com. I got Michelin Arctic Alpins on steel rims from them for my 00 TW (well Tafetta Brown at the moment) EX. I tried a few places (online and traditional) and tirerack came out most reasonable. The best part was that the tires arrived in a few days mounted, balanced and ready to install.

    The Alpins have performed great this season here in the Boston area. The TCS still kicks in, but it will on ice with any tire. Although the snow hasn't been too severe, my wife and I are glad we got them. With 2 little ones in back, it was worth the $500 for the reassurance.
  • diymandiyman Member Posts: 11
    We're expecting to purchase (or at least deposit and wait) an Ody toward the summer. The local paper just ran a story over the weekend introducing some of the already announced 2002 vehicles, which got me thinking...(uh-oh ;-)

    I am curious if anyone knows around when Honda might make public its plans for the 2002 Ody, and also when they might show up on dealer lots?

    Our thinking is if we find out at that time about enough desirable upgrades being in store (such as more colors, better sound system, better seats, seat/mirror memory, etc., you know, the upgrades people have asked for here, and not a painful price increase), we may just hold off for the new model year if the goodies are worth the wait to us, and the wait isn't another 6 months.

    I don't expect all that much may change but maybe Honda will surprise us...

    Thanks to everyone for all the great info being posted. I am devouring it in hopes of becoming an expert Ody shopper when the time comes to pull the trigger.
  • diymandiyman Member Posts: 11
    In the LX vs EX debate on power doors, I've seen that a number of people have tested the power doors on their arms, with reports of more or less "not so bad".

    Have any of you EX owners dared (or inadvertently) catch your hand/fingers instead? How bad was it, though it may not be terribly quantifiable? I'm worried about my kids and fingers, not arms or legs, as hands/fingers to me is a much more likely scenario. In this case, I have to agree with a previous poster that I think I'd rather get caught in the EX's controlled slide vs Dad having whipped the door shut. That is assuming the final door catch/close distance doesn't kick in and its force is not excruciating. Comments?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I could really never understand the turning on and off of selective availability. If China or who ever sends a missle over here it's going to have a nuclear warhead. Is 15meters or 500 meters really going to matter. I think not.
  • sam7068sam7068 Member Posts: 28
    Tim,

    I suggest you go back and do more comparison. Odyssey was not designed with Kids in mind. As you see, the seats don't recline on 2nd or 3rd row, there is not TV/VCR option and your toddlers have no built in child seat and by the way, they can snap their hands by electric doors. Some of these options can be purchased by 3rd party, but why should you spend so much money and time and effort and get so little. Check out Toyota or Nissan Quest and walk away happy with better reliability and options.
  • dhawk27dhawk27 Member Posts: 11
    Today I entered "the game" of purchasing an EX-NAVI(MSRP, no dealer add-ons, no transfer/"processing" fees, no refundable deposit required until the ODY I want hits the dealer's list). Should know where the ODY and I stand on our lists in a few days. During the conversation concerning dealer add-ons, some type of front end "laminate?" coating that would help protect against paint chips was mentioned. I didn't get into details except to determine that this wasn't a nose cover or defector. It's supposed to be some type of clear surface applied material. I wasn't really interested in the details at this time but may be later. I haven't seen anything in the posts I've read about such a product. Has anyone heard of it? It was mentioned in the context of "new on the market". I'm very satisfied with what was discussed and agreed to today. Will see how the next step goes.
    de Hawkeye
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    Odyssey WAS built with the safety of the child and its parents in mind, even if convenience features were omitted. Top safety ratings across the board. Sienna also does well, though Quest has a poor IIHS offset crash rating.

    As for TV/VCR, 3rd party is a legitimate option. They tend to be much cheaper, often portable from car to car, and replacing them altogether is likely to be cheaper than repairing a factory unit.

    Built in child seats are convenient, but properly installed aftermarket seats protect just as well, and often have additional comfort and side impact protection. And, they don't compromise the comfort of an adult sitting in that position when the integrated child seat is folded away.

    If you don't like the electric doors, an LX has manual doors.
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    is regretting his Quest purchase. Why else go trolling on an Ody board?
  • curtiscrowcurtiscrow Member Posts: 3
    My Ody is 14 months old w/24,000 miles. Lately it sometimes fails to start, once when cold, and three times when still warm. Cranks fine, just doesn't catch. Dealer thinks the engine is flooding, suggests waiting after turning on the ignition before engaging the starter. If you turn the key on, there is a brief period where some "whirring" noises are heard, and some of the initial complement of idiot lights go out. The service manager says this give the electric fuel pump time to properly prime the fuel injector(?) Anyone else have the same?
  • exindenverexindenver Member Posts: 32
    dhawk,
    what you are describing is the "clear bra" as some dealers call it. There have been posts in the past on it. It is a clear plastic film(not sure what type) that is glued to the front part of the hood and bumper. It will protect the paint from chips. Even though it is tougher than the paint, this protective layer will evenuatlly also get chipped and dinged. I didn't bother with it since I think it is kinda like the plastic sofa covers although much better looking and high tech. Not sure if it can be removed without hurting the paint.
  • exindenverexindenver Member Posts: 32
    Not trying to compare TCS and ABS. Agree they are different. Just trying to indicate that the wheels tend to slip more accelerating than braking since the activation of the TCS and ABS indicates wheel slipage.

    Thanks for the suggestions on the snow tires. Unfortunately, neither Tirerack.com nor tires.com have what I want in stock. tirerack.com didn't even offer the minus one size package you'd suggested. I lean more to the Artic Alpins or Yokohama Guardex 720 than the Bridgestone Blizzaks since their dry road perfomance is much better and the fancy rubber is full thread depth. The latter point is probably not as citical since a snow tire with only half thread left will start to loose snow traction performance and should be replaced.

    Anyone know how much the Honda dealers are charging for the steel wheels? The price at the .com tire stores (if they have them) is about $40 each. Wonder if I have to worry about the steel wheels that the dealers had to take off to fix the drifting problem I've read about.
  • exindenverexindenver Member Posts: 32
    I think he regrets not having the magic seat the most.

    BTW, the second row seats in the Odyssey does recline. Probably about 30 degrees. Not as much as I'd like but it is dangerous to have it reclined too much if you get in an accident. The air bag for the front passenger maybe why Honda allowed that seat to have full recline. Not that the air bag will help much if you end up below it.
    Also the third row does have slight recline adjustment capability for the seat back.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Give a call to the very knowledgable staff at Tirerack via their 1-800 number, and they should be able to configure the tires/steel wheels to what you want. Just because it is not listed on their website doesn't mean that you can get it.

    I agree that the Michelin Arctic Alpins' dry weather performance are better than the Blizzaks, so I'd recommend them too (over the Yokohamas, in fact).

    Good luck!

    Drew
    Host
    Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • mschafermschafer Member Posts: 317
    Why not check with Trevor for prices on the wheels? I use him for all parts, not just accessories; and his prices are excellent. Example: Local dealers wanted from $163-$188 plus installation for an EGR valve for my 99EX. I paid $119 from Trevor, and installed it myself in 10 minutes


    He can be found at: http://www.handa-accessories.com/

  • dlh2dlh2 Member Posts: 18
    FYI---Car and Driver online has an interesting comparison test of RWD/FWD/AWD/with snow tires/without snow tires entitled "What Price Traction". Good info about what combination works best in snow.
  • dwilkersdwilkers Member Posts: 6
    An observation I shared with my wife when trying to pick the best minivan:

    I have yet to see an comparison test--anywhere--from a major publication (edmunds, Car and Driver, etc) that included the Odyssey in which the Ody didn't win outright. If anyone knows of one, I'd like to see it.

    Even with the new Dodge vans out there (with their admittedly nifty--but probably breakage-prone--automatic rear hatch), the Honda continues to come out on top.

    Couple that with Honda's reputation, and you can't go wrong. Nissan Quest? An also-ran.

    We'll be getting our Starlight Silver EX in a couple of weeks (hopefully).

    Don't get me started on the Sienna: you expect me to pay 25k + on a vehicle without painted bumpers? And if I want painted bumpers, I have to like them in that one color? C'mon. It's cheapness on the part of Toyota (a trait that's becoming more and more prevalent in their car line). #1, it costs money to paint the bumpers, #2 it costs more than that to get a good color match (which is why they stick to the one color on the top-end sienna), and #3 it requires more cost in logistics to match the colors with the cars on the assembly line. Honda seems to do it fine, all at a lower price than the Toy.

    The Ody is hands-down a stellar value compared to the Toyota. I used to be a Toyota fan, 'till they started gouging the customer with high prices, low content, and low-rent items like the heinous bumpers on the Sienna.

    Toyota, these days, is riding high on their stellar reputation, with undoubtedly fat profit margins. Still, I see straight through it. That's why I purchased the F-150 (a GREAT value)over the Tundra (overpriced) recently. I know that trucks are off-topic, only pointing that Toyota has fallen way down on my list of manufacturers.
  • dwilkersdwilkers Member Posts: 6
    While doing our mini-van shopping, my wife and I noticed a common theme at the non-Honda dealerships. Each and every one of them said something to the effect of "yeah, that Odyssey's nice, but have you seen the spare? It's a baby spare! What are you going to do in the rain with Grandma in the second seat with that full size . . " blah blah blah.

    My wife and I came away thinking: If this is the worst these people can say about the Ody, it must be a great van! Let's get the Odyssey!

    I was wondering how many people got the same baby-spare speech from competing manufacturers.

    Let's compare mini vans and their problems:
    Honda - lessee, should you have a flat, you'll have to load the full-size spare inside. And the press continually busts on the shifter. Woe is me.

    Toyota - too small, overpriced, . . and painted bumpers (in one color only) only if you spend 30k+. Hope you like gold!

    Ford - I'm a big Ford fan, but the Windstar has given them fits from a reliability standpoint . . not sure why they can't get that one right. They're doing great with so many other lines.

    Nissan/Mercury: That van is SO 1990.

    Mazda: an interesting choice, like a 75% Odd in every respect (power, size, price, etc.). Too small for me.

    Dodge/Chrysler: Great design, poor manufacturing execution. It's a shame. Did anyone else notice they were making plenty of money before the Daimler takeover (don't kid yourself . . it was not a merger). And I wonder if any of those soon-to-be-fired 26,000 are currently working on the Vans?

    GM (Pointiac/Chevy): I don't know where to start.

    For me, there was only one choice: the Odyssey.
  • lsg1lsg1 Member Posts: 42
    Hi...I just picked up my 2001 SS EX after exactly a 3 week wait. I have had alot of experience with minivans over the past 5 years. I had a 1996 Plymouth Grand Voyager, a 1998 Windstar and a 2000 Windstar. I have had such bad luck with the other vans, I just hope that Honda stands behind it's name, and this van is reliable.
    There is only one complaint I have about this van, after owning the other 3 and that is with the automatic door locks. I cannot believe that the Odyssey does not automatically shut the door locks when the van either goes into drive, or at least goes above 15 miles an hour like my other vans did.
    After not having to lock the doors on my own for 5 years, it will take a little getting used to.
    I have already assigned my 5yr old as my official reminder, since she doesn't forget anything, and in my older age, I find I am forgetting things on a daily basis.
    But other than that, I am very happy with the van.
  • jampressjampress Member Posts: 2
    Has anyone purchase the audio/video system from the dealer or off the market. Any reccomendation on where, what price or model. I will be picking up me ODDy01-Ex this weekend and would like to know if anyone have purchase the tv-vcr combo.

    Thanks..
  • cavillercaviller Member Posts: 331
    I would like to have side torso&curtain airbags, stability control and DRLs. A whiplash or advanced headrest system would be nice, too.

    While I'd prefer a full size spare, I'd much rather have the magic seat. Plus, I do like having the compact spare inside. Grandma can temporarily move to the drivers seat, but I don't want to be under the van on the side of an interstate getting off the full size spare like some vehicles. The best solution would be to have a runflat system, like the optional one on the Windstar. Then you can drive to a safe location to have the tire changed...
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    There are new discussions available in the Honda Odyssey Club Please stop by and let me know what you think!


    KarenS
    Host
    Owner's Club

  • binkybarnesbinkybarnes Member Posts: 69
    that's interesting what you said about the automatic locks...that is the one feature i loathe more than any other in a car...absolutely detest them...dunno why. each his own, i guess.
  • binkybarnesbinkybarnes Member Posts: 69
    just wondering...since the odyssey has 90 percent north american content (and labor?), is the odyssey (la great) considered an import in japan? also, what is the odyssey considered in the US and canada? is it a domestic in canada? very confused, as you can see.
  • sblack3sblack3 Member Posts: 4
    We picked up our 01 mesa beige Dec 29 after starting our search Jan 5. I think this was a world record. We test drove on the 22nd and then e-mailed about 15 dealers in northeast Ohio one dealer was willing to work with us a little on the price so we purchased through them. We are expecting the Ody to perform as well as our CRX 220,000 miles and the Accord we just sold with 145,000 miles. We could not be more happy with our purchase and would recommend the Ody to anyone.
  • binkybarnesbinkybarnes Member Posts: 69
    at one time, honda was toying with the idea of naming the second-generation odyssey the "L'Attitude" to differentiate it from the first-generation. i, for one, would have had serious, serious, serious reservations about buying one if it were called that...although i love my van, i don't know if i could have ever gotten over such a silly name. am i alone? (hope i didn't offend anyone who likes that name!)
  • johng14johng14 Member Posts: 31
    I'm planning to install the television package on my new as 01 EX. If anyone has had any problems or suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    Is this something being offered by Honda or your dealer? What's involved? Try posting to the audio/video section of the Honda Odyssey Club.
  • johng14johng14 Member Posts: 31
    This is something the dealer is offering. The system is similar to the one being offered by Toyota for their Senna. I'm just wondering of the quality of the system.
  • sam7068sam7068 Member Posts: 28
    Nice to hear from the HONDA Dealers!! I am EXTREMELY happy with my NISSAN Quest purchase. It has over 5K mile already and its such a pleasure to drive. I post here because we Quest owners are like Maytag folks, We have trouble free vans. My reason to post is due to my Pledge to HONDA Dealers that my role is to educate would be Honda buyers on good deals. I like to save my fellow shoppers who read these post to Save over $5000 and buy the Quest. If you test drive Nisssan Quest you will not go Honda!! Guaranteed. Also here is the list of things that Auto Reviewers don't tell public.

    1. Reviewers don't have to wait and go through B.S to get their cars.

    2. Their assumption is that all the Vans tested are based on their MSRP. Nissans sell way below invoice.
    List of items that come free with Quest GXE (Base) which you pay for or unavailable on Odyssey
    LX:

    ;Much better and safer headlights with see around the corner lights.

    :built-in child seat
    :leather seat
    :Free TV/VCR/game
    :Much better seats and Stereo system
    :Remote keyless entry
    :full size spare tire
    :Lights in the interior get dim in 15 seconds after exiting car to avoid battery drainage,
    :extra plugs in back seat for Laptops or to charge phones
    :The 2001 gets 5 star crash testing scores.
    :5 yr/ 60000 warranty on transmission as oppose to odyssey's 3yr/36000

    Nissans reliability. You show me a Honda Odyssey with over 35K mile and no problems with Transimission and doors and other stuff listed in problem board and I give you $50.

    These are minor points. Major options that are offer on this van will take the entire page.

    The only thing Honda has is 3rd row folding seat(I prefer 54 options on Quest's seats). Gas mileage which no one that I know of gets the actual 23 mpg. Real numbers are 20mpg and crash test (5 star rating) which the Quest 2001 matches now. Bottom line is Nissan is on average $5000 Less than LX, More options that are built into car and you don't have to purchase through 3rd party. Lot better reliability on top of that. This is based on 6 months worth of research!! For you Honda dealers that are posting here and you know who you are!!!...Stop your lies!!! For those of you who are really Honda fanatics...more power to you if you like to pay MSRP and think the value is really worth the money!!! I had Honda Accords in the past and it was a great car but Odyssey is No ACCORD!!!!
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Much safer headlights? Does that mean they come with seatbelts and airbags? See around corner lights. What does that mean, are they on 300 foot cords that extend in front of the Quest and when you get near a corner they peek around it to see if anything is in the way. What happens if they are around the right corner and you turn left. Can they catchup or do you have to stop and wait. I guess the name says it all "Quest", and I am sure it is a Quest.
  • bryannbryann Member Posts: 54
    why would you take the time to come into a Honda Odyssey group? we are looking for either problems, praise or solutions to the odyssey, not the quest. i just picked up my odyssey on friday and it is starting to really grow on me. anyway, back to the odyssey.
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    Would this be the "safe" 2001 Quest we're talking about here?


    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98023.htm


    You seem to conveniently leave out the IIHS test results. I guess you could call it safe if you never need to use your legs again!! Are we sure YOU aren't a Nissan dealer (only dealers would call the TV/VCR option "free")?? 54 seating options...is that like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic??


    Incidentally, you'll need that $5k less on the purchase price because that's at least how much less it'll fetch when you try and unload it...

  • sam7068sam7068 Member Posts: 28
    See around corner lights only get activated when you turn on your signal on. It lights up the corner!!(Extra bulb on the sides) Very Clever.

    Nissan has Quest Track railing system inside the Van that allows you to arrange the seats in 54 different ways!!!

    The saftey record link that was posted on prior message only applies to 1999 modelss the 2001 was structurally enhanced.

    I am taking time to come here to educate would be buyer...by the way..I am not just keen on recommending Quest...Toyota Sienna has just many options but it is pricier.

    TV/VCR's are free on all the Quest by the way!!!As for the name Quest...well..lets not get into names because Odyssey comes From OASIS which it really referes to the Vans reliability Records!!!....This information is for would be shoppers..Dealers that are posting here sure will get offended!!!
  • billg7billg7 Member Posts: 342
    I looked up the Quest in the Consumer Reports for April 2000. They don't like it. They say its ride is poor, "emergence handling and braking performance are wanting compared to other models." "Front seat comfort is just so-so. Poor crash results and only average reliability."

    It also says it was redesigned in 1999. If it was redesigned again in 2001, that would be unusual and maybe they finally got it right. Who knows? But at any rate it would then be too new to know how reliable it is, and you would have a hard time finding a test report on it. Also it would be unusual to have a crash test report out for it this soon.

    Perhaps you got hold of a Beta copy of the Quest for 2003.
  • mschafermschafer Member Posts: 317
    You posted: "You show me a Honda Odyssey with over 35K mile and no problems with Transimission and doors and other stuff listed in problem board and I give you $50."

    Would you like directions to my home or can you send the $50 sight unseen?

    I have a 99 Odyssey EX with 80K miles. No problems with transmission, doors or any other "stuff". I also get 24-25 mpg routinely.

    Are you going to put your money where your mouth is? I doubt it.
  • exindenverexindenver Member Posts: 32
    Only vehicles that need a full size spare are 4wds that actually go off road in remote places. Otherwise, a full size spare just adds weight, cost and waste space in a vehicle IMHO. I've driven over 23 years and never had to use a spare. Knock on wood. I've gotten nails in my tires but they don't go flat until I pull the nail out. I think a temporary spare is more than enough to get me to the tire store if I have a blowout. I'd always hated having to rotate the spare tire in to make use of that investment when I had full size spares. Can't do that if you have alloys and the spare doesn't. Then you have to buy the same type of tires later to make use of the spare.

    Always thought the VW Jetta commercial which touted the full size spare's return as silly.
  • mtsangmtsang Member Posts: 70
    Has anyone been able to program a thrid remote for their EX? I bought an extra remote from eBay and tried programming it from the instructions from the service manual, but it did not work. Does anyone has any experience in this area? Thanks.

    Mike
  • exindenverexindenver Member Posts: 32
    sam7068,
    I got average of 23.8 mpg on my trip from Denver to S.F over the holidays. And that was with average speed of 80 mph and sometimes with head winds of 30 to 50 mph in WY. Normal around town mileage is about 20 mpg. But you don't know me. Do you know any Odyssey owners?
  • grplavloffgrplavloff Member Posts: 138
    "Don't get me started on the Sienna: you expect me to pay 25k + on a vehicle without painted bumpers?
    "

    Just about the last thing that I would want on a car is painted bumpers.
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    If you would READ the IIHS page/link I posted (rather than just say whatever you want), you would see it refers to 1999-2001 model Quests, not just 1999. Get your "facts" straight.

    By the way, it's hilarious you think I'm a Honda dealer. I'm actually an Energy Marketer working for a large E&P (that's Exploration and Production) company here in Calgary...or do you think that's some sort of clever disguise?! Get a grip....
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    Most automakers offer painted bumpers on all their vehicles or at least their upscale or premium models because most buyers desire them...they look better. I guess you're not "most buyers".
  • jamescaninejamescanine Member Posts: 13
    It would be nice to keep this Odyssey discussion strictly to Odyssey. Its not the Odyssey v. Quest site. Glad you like your van, but its a waste of our time to read your posts.
  • billg7billg7 Member Posts: 342
    I thought of making that same point. I have gone now 270,000 miles without using my spare tires, or having to change a flat myself. I get nails in my tires. That either causes a slow leak or I see the nail in the tire before it leaks. I then drive the car to a service station to have it fixed. I am guessing that the radial tires they make these days are less likely to go flat on you in a hurry.

    So I question if a full size spare tire is cost, and space effective. My experance tells me that I prefer the advantages of the extra space the small spare tire adds to the vehicle. I would guess the manufacturers have found that most car owners agree and that is why they usually don't provide one.

    I also get new tires when my tires get down to the danger level. If you drive on bald tires you are going to have to change more flats yourself.
  • exindenverexindenver Member Posts: 32
    That article in Car and Driver on snow tire vs AWD traction was very interesting.


    http://caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/1999/May/199905_feature_whatp.xml

  • exindenverexindenver Member Posts: 32
    How many of those 54 seating configurations involve leaving the 3rd row seats in the garage?
  • sam7068sam7068 Member Posts: 28
    So if you guys think you bought a great Van!! Offcourse dealer talk!!!..Why is '99 Odyssey on the Consumers Reports car to Avoid list? By the way wait till you see the 2000 April issue...it will be the same thing!!!...Its interesting to see that you pay over $5000 extra for Minivan and still get a "car to avoid" rating!!!I suggest you sell right now before popularity vanishes and recoup some of your loss!!!...Good luck Shoppers!!!
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