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CR-V vs Escape



  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Oops. Freeber beat me to the post on some of those issues. Sorry about the duplication.
  • freeberfreeber Posts: 116 did I get the idea then?

    Baggs and Varmint are correct. 50% of Fatal accidents are from head on collisions. (per IIHS) The point I was trying to make and didn't make clearly is that the majority of HEAD ON collisions are of the offset type. I have no data to back that up, but human nature is to try and steer away so I think its safe to assume most head on crashes are offset.
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Posts: 163
    You were the one that was so proud Honda made a boo boo so I decided to cut your party short with the reliability issue again and used your method of data as you call it with facts and for some reason the 2002 comparison of the 2 show something is not right with consumer complaints. You started this thread so you are going to have to read the facts we give you. Sounds like you were a little mad at me there from the words you wrote.

    As I told you before (you must learn to read the whole post) the Explorer hit me on the high side of the door BECAUSE it was a 4X4 vehicle. If it would have been lower, I would of received much more damage. Also, he thrusted me forward when it hit probably reducing the impact somewhat whereas he had to absorb the full hit. This is what the insurance evaluator told us so I think he knows more about this than you or I.

    By the way, have a nice vacation and be safe...afterall, this is all for fun. I would love to have a beer with someone like you because you stick to your guns and I like that. Too bad we live so far apart...could be interesting!
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Posts: 163
    My rental had 300km's (Canadian) on it so I think the person that had it before me had nothing to do with the quality. Second, nobody posted anything for me. The only thing I needed help with was how to reduce the size of the web-site address cause I am not that good with computers and the rest is my doing once I figured out how to shorten them. I have been wondering where that one came from. I posted things as I feel the need to and scape was gloating over the back bumper thing so I posted something of a comparison myself with consumer reports and complaints and YES they are important because they are major problems that have existed since the 2001 model and have not been fixed. I only know 2 people with these vehicles (1 Escape and the other Tribute. My buddy with the Escape had problems with the engine stalling and electrical problems. He has recently traded it in for a Honda Pilot. The other person works with me and she has had less problems but has also experienced the stalling problem and they changed her computer and for now it is ok. My problems were also simular except I got stranded and that is something you do not expect TWICE!!!!

    I am not saying this vehicle is crap but close because of the experiences around me. I am sure there are some that have nothing wrong and that is great. The reason why I know so much about the 2002 CRV is because I know so many people that have them and I am also a big Honda fan BUT that has nothing to do with whether or not I like the Escape ONLY because of what I experienced PERIOD!

    I bought my 2001 in January because I got a deal that I liked and I don't need the extra power. I've got leather, wood, 6 CD changer ......and that is what was important to me not how fast I could get between stop signs. I almost bought a Santa Fe cause it is very good. I rented it 3 times and tore the crap out of it without a hiccup! I had the Tribute 4 hours and it left me on the side of the road...TWICE in 2 days!!! I am sorry but if that happened to you or anyone else on this board, I am sure that you would not defend your point so heavily. I am not happy that Honda screwed up the back door and I wish it would open in the proper direction but for me it is the best and that is what counts. There is no such thing as a perfect vehicle but some are better built than others and I think the Honda make (and Toyota) have an advantage!
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    For all those who think 1 or 2 inches difference in the 40 mph offset would make a significant difference, that is nonesense. You are hitting a barrier not a post. I can see where your arguement holds true if you hit a narrow target like a post or something like that. Anybody with knowledge in statics, dynamics, strengths and especially structures knows this to be true. Right, fellow engineer, scape...?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    We are discussing the Honda CR-V and the Ford Escape on this board. Every time I ask you to do that, you reply with some Honda is better than Ford nonsense. I never said that Honda's overall quality is better than Ford's. It always has been and it still is for now.

    I'm not saying your rental Tribute was absolutely tampered with, but it only takes about ten seconds to ruin a transmission/engine no matter what the mileage on the odo is. That's why I will never base a vehicles performance on a rental test drive.

    By the way, calling the trim in your CR-V "wood" is a bit of a stretch. I believe "plood" is the scientific term. Some of that stuff looks pretty good though.

    Moving the vehicle over a couple of inches was a hypothetical scenario. A couple of feet is probably more realistic.

    varmint and freeber,
    Yes the engine is a liability in cases where it does not drop, but if it is designed to drop it can help. I should have stated this before to explain myself. I wrecked an '87 Taurus LX into a (four inch diameter I believe) chain link fence gate pole at about 45 mph a while back when I was a stupid sixteen year-old. Anyway, the engine did drop due to the break away mounts it rested on. When it dropped, it hit the frame on the way back and prevented the pole from slicing further through the engine bay. It didn't prevent us from being killed or anything like that (the seat belts did that), but it just might have saved us had we been going faster. Believe me, I'm not making this up, the mechanic was my girlfriend's father and he showed me how this and the crumple zones worked to save our lives. He also wanted to show me why it was going to cost so much to fix. Lesson learned I guess.

    I also agree that the CR-V was the better performer in this particular test. No one can argue with that, but that does not necessarily mean it is, as hondaman would say, a "tank". freeber tells us that human nature is to steer away from an oncoming car and I agree. However, the IIHS's offset test does not add that factor into the equation. If the two vehicles are turning away at the point of impact, chances are they are going to rotate around thus reducing the "head-on" force of impact. In this situation the two vehicles will push in on each other, and then out to the side.

    So is the IIHS offset test representative of the majority of accidents? I personally don't think so. Should we use it in determining the safety of a vehicle? Sure, obviously the CR-V has more structural strength in their type of accident, but I'd be willing to bet that the opposite is true for other tests. We'll never know that for sure though.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    I don't think plood is even available on the CR-V.
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    Which is the most atttractive mini SUV?

    I vote for the Freelander, even though I own the CRV.
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Posts: 163
    Good word baggs! You are picky for sure! I know it is not real wood that is just what everybody calls it.

    I have posted many items about the Escape and the one about consumer complaints concerns the Escapes reliability and many times this issue has been brought on the board so it was relevant to show the comparison of the 2 for the same model year!

    Don't agree with your rental excuse. As I said before, I rent at least 20 times a year and have done so for many years and never had a problem until that one vehicle. many times, I get cars that have over 20000km's and never experience a problem. I don't believe that in 300 km's a person can destroy a vehicle because I am sure that it was used in normal driving on raods where there are police so that does not pan out.

    I know you don't like any of my comments because I am hard on this particular vehicle but I don't care about that. My experience was just that...."mine" and it was very bad and upsetting. What I really don't understand is why this problem exists in so many cases?

    As for the links, everyone counts as it is all relevant concerning the particular vehicle. Most of you argue over which one brakes 4 feet better or a crash test at 5 mph but I think the most important factors of a vehicle are reliability and safety and that has been proven in 2 of my recent links and no more are needed for now.

    Varmint, I would like to comment on your knowledge of the Honda product and your great way of making interesting posts to read. How is it that you know so much about vehicles? I envy you.
  • freeberfreeber Posts: 116
    Sorry to throw this back in out of order and all but apparently my post title was a little to racy to be included on these boards. I understand posting here is a privelage and there are certain rules to be followed, however I never thought mentioning that people thought I had my head in my rear (a customary statement people use when they think somebody isn't thinking clearly) was considered PROFANE. I just think its reaching at best.

    That said, I don't want something I SAID to get the host in trouble with his superiors so I'm reposting the snipet so it's on the books and people don't wonder what the big gap was in the conversation. Sorry Tidester, I know you're just doing you job, but I still think this is wrong.

    Your specific post has violated our Member Conduct regarding “Masked” Profanity. "You may not submit Postings that are indecent, profane (including masked profanity), obscene,..."

    Your post:

    #1166 of 1176 Now I'm scratching my head (and yes I'm -------- --) by freeber Jul 10, 2002 (02:36 pm)
    I see your point baggs, I just don't know how much water it holds. I agree one test cannot represent EVERY possible situation, but isn't the offset crash designed to replicate the more serious head-on type collision that causes the most injuries? My understanding of the Insurance tests were that they were better indicators of real world performance and they were done by the insurance industry because the NHSA tests weren't stringent enough. (i.e. the insurance companies needed better information to know how to base their insurance rates) I would be shocked (yes shocked) if the Escape performed better if you shift it over a few inches left or right. Same for the CRV. As was stated before, they can't test for every situation so the test for the most common.
    Well, I'll have to revisit that. Now that I think about it, I think that test is actually
    designed around the type of accident that has the highest number of fatalities involved....I'll look into that.
    I think the complete opposite is true regarding the GOOD vs MARGINAL rating. When
    first looked at, they don't sound very different. When you look deeper at what makes up the ratings you see there is a large gap between them. The CRV received 'good' in all areas of the test while the Escape actually scored one 'poor' in it's marginal rating. That means a high probability of serious injury. The marginal ratings aren't much better.
    Lets not forget all these rating are compared directly to other vehicles IN THEIR
    CLASS. The insurance tests say compared to the rest of the vehicles in the Escapes class, it's offset saftey rating is MARGINAL while the CRV is the BEST IN CLASS.
    We can all spend alot of time trying to minimalize the advantages of each others
    vehicles. I give scape the 4 feet advantage, but I don't think it makes a good case for buying a vehicle based on the fact that 4 feet isn't that much of a difference based on the speed I will be traveling those last 4 feet.
    I hope none of us ever have to deal with ANY of these tests. My father works in the
    Insurance industry and my wife was in a near fatal accident when we were in High School so I KNOW the damage that can be done. That's why I put so little stock in 5 MPH bumper tests because all of us are going to walk away from a 5MPH bump into a pole or even some idiot who hit the brakes too late. I put my stock in whats going to happen at serious speeds and serious conditions. I think the CRV has the upper hand on that one. (at least for now)
    So I don't think its a draw. That's just me. I do agree with you that we all need to drive
    safely and hope we never really put these tests to the test.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    If you and scape ever do get together for a fireside chat, please film it for us to watch. Just make sure you have plenty of film on hand, it's going to be a long night.

    Anyone want to bet on who breaks first?

    And my wife thought I bled Ford blue. I'll have to try and get her to read some of this stuff. Maybe she'll think I'm semi-normal again.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Baggs - I don't disagree with much of what you are saying. However, you are arguing what we don't know. That doesn't change what we do know. When a buyer goes shopping for a car, they should be interested in their own safety. If that buyer looks up the CR-V and Escape, everything they will find states that the CR-V is safer in a crash.

    It's true that the data they find is not the whole picture. However, if I'm going to bet my life/health on a vehicle, I'm going to pick the one with a better track record.

    Daveghh - I like the Tribute as well. It has both good proportions and nice styling. IMHO, the Escape has the same tidy proportions, but the details are bland. The CR-V is shaped a little too thick, but it has more interesting details.

    Hondaman - I've been a participant here and in other forums for three years. I also read auto news and reviews. After a while, you pick things up.
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Posts: 219
    I've parked my crv next to a tribute - from a short distance the two are very similiar in shape. And with cladding on the crv, it makes it look even more similiar. Certainly there are differences as you get closer but the two could be cousins - except, of course, in terms of reliability, owner satisfaction and number of major problems!!
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    You're right, and I'm not trying to disprove the CR-V's test data. It's just that a lot of people tend to believe everything they read and then take action based upon that information. I learned my lesson a long time ago that you have to sit down and think things out first.

    For example, I read that the CR-V did very well in the IIHS's offset crash test. That's great for the CR-V and all of its loyal fans because now they can go out and preach to the world about how safe the CR-V is (magazines included). Then I thought about it and said to myself "Self! (that's for you Emeril fans out there) Wait a minute, I've crashed before, and it didn't go anything like that.". So then, are all crashes exactly like theirs? Definitely not. How often do those types of crashes occur? We don't know for sure. Did they strap the dummy in the same way, or did it move on the way down the track? We don't really know, but either could have happened. [Insert other similar questions here:] Why then am I to believe that any vehicle is safer overall than another just because of one simple little crash test? Now you see how a programmers mind works. Sick isn't it?

    As you said before, there are probably thousands of unique crash scenarios. Thanks to the NHTSA and the IIHS we know exactly how our vehicles will react in three of them. Based on the same data, we can also guess how they will react in many more. As long as the thing doesn't look like a crushed beer can after the test, I'm willing to take a chance on it because I'm probably never going to experience the exact same crash.

    Since when did we start trusting the government so much anyway?

    I have to apologize about asking you for the comparison links. When I saw muckyduck's name above I realized that it was he I requested the links from. I still want to see the scape/hondaman fireside chat video though.
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Posts: 219
    "Ok, Fellers!"

    baggs32 - "Are you being a smart moose?"
    Bullwinkle - "I don't know, there's a first time for everything!"

    Natasha and Boris are the real problems.

    But Duddley Do Right will come to save the day!

    Stay tuned for previews of our next exciting show, titled "Comparison links" or "Will the forest cover the snow and will scape take a bite out of the curds and way, er, I mean, curves and highway"
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    Remember muckyduck, I am looking for the major differences between the two. Not things like .3 inches of shoulder room. If you go back a ways you'll see where I started you off with one for the CR-V.

    Opinions of quality from you or any other publication are not welcome either. Feature content and Specifications are the name of the game here.

    I don't know that scape really intended for this board to be used in such a manner. But varmint has tried to turn us all in that directions many times without much success. I just thought I'd try and help him out a little.
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Posts: 219

    Boris: "Congratulations squirrel, you are the proud owner of a dead Escape"
    Rocky: "But you told me it would be fine"
    Boris: "It is fine. Finally dead!"

    Natasha: "Boo hoo hoo!"
    Rocky: "Hold it, Bullwinkle! That sounds like a lady in distress!"
    Bullwinkle: "So?"
    Rocky: "Gee, didn't you ever read the Hero's Handbook?"
    Bullwinkle: "I can never get past the picture of General MacArthur on the cover."
    Rocky: "Well, Chapter Two says we should always help ladies in distress."
    Bullwinkle (to Natasha): "Hi, there, lady! Are you in distress?"
    Natasha: "This dress, that dress, who cares? I'm distraught!"
    Bullwinkle (to Rocky): "Do we help ladies in distraught?"

    You of course understand that Natasha is on the side of a road, with her Escape doing what the Escape does best - DIE!
  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    baggs - you don't welcome the opinions regarding quality from board participants or automotive magazine reviewers (who are paid for their expertise regarding autos)???????

    This discussion is CR-V vs Escape... why isn't someone's (ANYONE's) perception of the vehicles' relative quality welcome?

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    muckyduck's opinions have been made clear already. I asked him for the major advantages that the CR-V holds over the Escape quite some time ago because he keeps claiming that the CR-V "is the greatest". I just wanted to see how he came up with this claim.

    Since he had to ask which Escape trim level best compares to the CR-V EX, I'm not expecting to be overwhelmed with information. As was proven in post 1188.

    It's OK though. We Ford people are used to the bashers. They're just jealuous that's all.

    Here's a new one (I think).

  • muckyduckmuckyduck Posts: 219
    how it is Ford people appear to have this great deep seated need to show that their piece of junk is better than some other great car. Oh well, as Bullwinkle might say "A Ford in the bush is better than two Fords in the lake".

    Now, back to moose and squirrel.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    I guess it's kind of like how people from Texas keep trying to convince us how their state is the biggest and the best when at least one of those isn't true.
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Posts: 219
    Anytime some one brings up reliability, customer satisfaction, fewer complaints all ford owners can say is
    "Shucks, Foiled Again!!"
  • daveghhdaveghh Posts: 495
    How come when you open up...

    consumer reports
    popular mechanics
    popular science
    business week

    They say Honda is reliable and often state that the Fords have problems. I fail to see the conspiracy here! Consumer reports uses statistics in an appropiate manor; scientifically and ethically.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    When you guys or some other publication can show me a report that lists the total number of problems per vehicle based on data collected from every single owner. Then I'll believe that one is better than the other. Until then, they're both pretty equal in my eyes.

    By the way muckyduck, Ford Trucks (F150, 250, etc.) are very reliable and hold their value as well as any Honda. Also, Honda's total vehicle production is about equal to how many F150's Ford sells. Every car company has it's good and bad. Take the Odyssey and the Passport for instance.
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Posts: 219
    "Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!"

    "A tautology is a thing which is tautological." - Dave Berry

    "Arguing with a stubborn person is much like mud wrestling with a pig. Pretty soon you realize
    the pig likes it." - Anonymous

    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the
    former." - Einstein
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Posts: 219
    "We have all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true."
    -- R. Wilensky

    "If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?"
    -- Steven Wright

    and my last quote for the week

    "Hey Bullwinkle, we're in real trouble now!"
    "Oh good, Rocky! I hate that artificial kind!"
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Posts: 163 problem and I accept your apology. I was wondering if I had forgot something a while back concerning links. As for scape and I getting would be interesting BUT I admit I really like him because he sticks to what he believes and that is worth a lot to me.

    Muckyduck...calm down man!!! I also belive the Escape is not as reliable but I am not going to start insulting the entire company or any person over it. Baggs's examples of the Odyseey and Passport are sort of right......First of all the Odyseey did have some pretty major troubles BUT Honda did fix it very quickly and it is now one the most reliable vans on the market. As for the Passport, it is made entirely by Isuzu and that is why the Pilot has emerged. I think Honda fixes problems much faster than Ford because my example of engine stalling problems is still happening after 2 1/2 years of sales. The odyseey engine problems were solved in a recall and now that engine is used in the Pilot, MDX and of course Odyssey with an impeccable record.

    The Tribute I had was noisy, rattled a lot and had major mechanical problems at 300km's! My 2001 CRV is quieter and smoother and it has only a small engine with absolutely NO rattles, shakes, stalling NOTHING after 35000Km's (I drive a lot). I have had 5 Hondas and previously before my CRV I had a Civic Si that I drove so hard that I was surprised it held out. I use sythetic oil and keep my cars in perfect showroom condition BUT I drive them hard......NEVER had any mechanical problems after all 5....This is the only make that has given me this reliability and I have owned all 3 domestics and even Hyundai which I must say was 95% reliable..MUCH more than the domestics I had!
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Posts: 163
    Honda is the largest engine manufacturer in the world. They are involved in almost every racing there is and now are going to develop engines for IRL next year. They have won all there is to win and people on this board still say they are not as good or just as good!!! So many engineers are writing here BUT still can't conclude the fact that Honda builds the best 4 cylinders in the world!They were thinking of building a V8 but are concerned about the fuel consumption!! Go figure a company that worries about how much consumers will waste our natural resources. Do we all want a Honda V8? YES Do we need a Honda V8? NO!
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