I'm looking to buy a 2000 Honda Odyssey with 11,000 miles. All seems fine except I notice a significant amount of carbon in the tail pipe. When I rubbed my fingers inside the tail pipe they became black. Does this indicate a problem or is it normal?
Seems sad that an excellent vehicle could have unsafe tires as original equipment. Put quality Michelin tires on all Odyssey and not just the up-scale EX.
FWIW, while I'm not a Firestone fan, I did put 65K completely trouble free miles on the Firestone Affinity tires that came on my 99EX. During their life, they were never rebalanced (didn't need to be) and were cross rotated every 10k. They still had 2-3k left in the tread wear when I replaced them.
(In 1999, the LX came with Michelins and the EX came with Firestones.)
I drove my wife's 2000 LX tonight and noticed that the factory radio/cassette tuner does not have a back light. Unless the overhead light is on, you can't see what station your tuned to. Is this normal, or do I have a burned out bulb? The rest of the radio dials have lights. I posted this on the other Odyssey site, but I think this board is better suited for the question. Thanks
Please forgive the correction from a guy who doesn't even own one (still yet!), but in 1999 both the LX and the EX came with Firestone Affinity tires. It was 2000 when the EX was supplied with the Michelin Symmetry(?) tires while the LX still got the Firestones. Since I don't have to worry about actually maintaining the van I don't yet have, I have the time to remember such trivial points. ;-)
My 99 Ody EX developed an instrument panel light problem yesterday. When the headlights are off, the backlighting on the radio, clock, A/C and odometer works fine. When I turn the headlights on, the backlighting goes completely off, and I have no instrument panel lights (in the speedometer area).
I've checked the appropriate fuse (fine), and it's not the brightness adjustment.
Anyone have a similar problem or an opinion on the solution? My wonderful dealer can make an appointment for me on the 29th -- so helpful!
Read mschafer's post again. He says "I did put 65K completely trouble free miles on the Firestone Affinity tires that came on my 99EX." He is defending the Affinity tires (with reservations, perhaps). I'm no Firestone loyalist either, but you can find no support in either of our posts for your anti-Firestone opinion.
Also, you surely must be aware that manufacturers do not tend to put the finer tires on as standard equipment....
To all readers: Karen mentions that on this new format messages cannot be hidden. I was hoping I could do that to prevent annoying some readers. I do have some postings,unfortunately, they are of decent length and for particular readers. Hope my material helps, and those who are annoyed with me, please skip my messages. Thanks to all.
Door contact switch alignment is the cause of most door opening/closing problems. (Not really the door alignment itself, unless vehicle has been in an accident and has sustained frame damage of guide wheels broken). In your case your door motor is also out of synchronization. If you/dealer have tried to close a partly open door by forcing it, before putting Master Switch to ‘Off’, the latching mechanism is forced out of sync. This mechanism has a unit in it that counts off the number of revolutions it makes to fully open or fully close a door. This is tied into the motor from which it receives its signal to stop working in either direction. Latching sensors then fully lock the door upon closing.
Alarms are also tied into the door latching open/close sensor, and that is why they keep going off at odd times. The latching sensor signals the door closed, but the contact switch is not closed and so the beeper goes off saying the door is not closed. Only your passenger side door is malfunctioning. However, even if the driver side door is okay, both doors are not synchronized.
The shop manual details a ten page diagnostic and complete synchronization of sensors, doors and door motors. It is a painstaking job and cannot be done trial-and-error, which seems the dealer’s current approach.
Make it a policy (after everything is fixed and working properly) never to do two things. Don’t change the status of cabin light master switch once doors are opened. Also, if for any reason doors malfunction with switches, don’t manually work them unless totally inoperable. Work the switches on the dash, the door and the fob till they return to normal.
Please post your results and good luck to working with the dealer to solving the malfunctioning door.
To all posts using fuses as ‘reset’ functions: The Check Engine Light Reset
The fuse in the circuit provides over-current protection of the indicator circuit. The PCM has a different SCR circuit that signals the Check Engine Light to come “on” when a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) input is received by the PCM. The DTC is then stored in the EEPROM. This trouble code could remain, or be removed if the problem can be self diagnosed and ‘fixed’ – meaning, it does not reappear .
If you care less why your CE light came on, you could just pull the fuse. However, that does not erase the trouble code/s stored in the computer and the light can/will reappear. If you don’t have the equipment, a more sensible thing would be to go to your dealer (or your garage) who will connect a Honda or OBDII Scanner to your vehicle, extract the code/s, repair the problem and then erase the codes from the EEPROM in a prescribed sequence, The CE light signal will be scanned and, if everything okay, signal light to go “off”.
On a side note… It takes < 1 second to open a circuit. Spark, damage and/or fire can occur when trying to remove a fuse in voltage retention circuits that are ‘live’ at all times across the fuse. But shop manuals rarely let you touch these fuses without fully disabling the circuit first. Memory retention circuits do not go through fuses. Where allowed, a circuit is open the moment the fuse is removed.
Also…manufacturers can program the on-board computer to do a full diagnostic and reset at prescribed intervals. GM does this every thirty-fifth time the engine is started up. With new technology ‘check system indicators’ are very important. The computer is not going to let you fool around with its functions and purpose
To App1nag (and all those interested/concerned about ABS): Help with ABS
Yes, removing ‘power’ can disable every electrical system and sub-system in the vehicle. Personally, I don’t think disabling any system, let alone the ABS, is advisable.
Loosing vehicular control, especially a loss of road grip, can be a frightening experience to say the least.
Except for a bit of patience and some new learning, your wife can get to master ABS. Any chance of an added $200 driver course on a driving school training ice/snow skidpad – the ones that train you with your own vehicle?
Your wife loves the Civic because she has inadvertently attuned herself to its braking. To stop on a slippery surface she is probably exerting mild pressure or even slowly pumping the brakes, all the time sensing the vehicle’s motion through the wheels. Mind you, the Civic is a smaller and lighter vehicle.
Nothing to be frightened about with the Ody. There is a lot of snow and ice around – empty parking lots and other places. Get her to do exactly the same; exert pressure of varying intensities on the brakes and get a ‘sense’ and ‘taste’ of the vehicle’s movement from its wheels upwards. She will master it in no time.
Some very important notes for ABS users – notwithstanding everything written about by manufacturers and statistics provided by compilers. - On dry/wet road ABS works like conventional brakes. A post mentioned that ABS operated while driving in the rain. Design parameters stipulate that hydroplaning provides the same reference vehicle speed to wheel speed and vehicle should brake conventionally. To a wheel, water under it is actually ‘felt’ as a ‘hard surface’ (water providing dynamic resistance) and not as if riding on air. - ABS design parameters advise that even under extreme braking on hard, non-skid surfaces (no sand, snow, etc.), if your ABS activates, please have the pump modulator checked/replaced. It dictates that with summer tires on a hard surface, an ABS equipped vehicle should literally be able to stop on a dime. The EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution) is designed such that braking is first applied to the rear brakes, vehicle to wheel speed references are taken and then braking to the front applied. It is to make all things equal before ABS comes into play if needed. However, this is design theory. Concerns are with ABS applying prematurely on such surfaces. Published stopping distances are done on non-skid surfaces and hard rubber tires. - On every/all skid prone surfaces ABS is not designed to stop a vehicle quicker, faster, slower, nearer or further away. The law of Physics – momentum – in relation to vehicles, is based on its contact surface with the road – its tires. Any forward skid situation translates into lack of maneuverability and ABS is designed to prevent wheel lockup (skid), thereby allowing the driver to [try] and steer away from an obstacle. Stopping distances and times are totally dependent on road surface [and speed of travel] and in those few precious seconds if the steering is not slowly turned away from an obstacle, there is nothing to stop an ABS equipped vehicle from rolling into (and not sliding into) that obstacle. There is no magic, you have to get used to ABS and most of them are heart stopping experiences. You stopped safely…is what counts in the end. [Incidentally, the same goes for a vehicle with conventional brakes, if caution is not adhered to when road conditions are not safe]. - There is a relation between brake pressure and ABS activation. Slow speed with enough distance can actually get ABS to work with very little brake pulsation on a very slippery surface. You can literally hear the tires holding the ice. Ody has four-channel independent ABS and pulsation depends on how many channels are activated. A panic stomp on the brake will cause
To Alexmish (and all folks still concerned about octane rating for Odys): Gas Type
Alex, have you made that trip yet? Is everything working well with your dream machine?
To avoid complaints I will just say that when all the numbers are put together, internationally, engine manufacturing convention goes that any engine with a compression ration of 9:1 and higher, is designed to achieve maximum output with a fuel octane rating of 90, or higher. A Compression ratio of 8:1 or higher references 80 plus octane, a value most vehicles still go by. A post once asked why ratings like 87, 89, etc. Well, engine compression is one of the factors. (I ran my 5.7 litre high compression ’81 Buick LeSabre in the Middle East on 98 octane).
As consumers, at some time we arrived at equating octane rating with octane cost differences and some posts have tried to justify one against the other. It does not work that way and manufacturers of engines and/or automotive gas did not work it out that way. If it was, there would be any number of high octane ratings to grab your money.
Let us consider one example. The Odys that we all bought. Due to its low revving high compression engine, the theoretically calculated ‘coefficient of thermal combustion‘ (the algorithmic coefficient of detonation – octane value) was deemed to be 91.3. That enables the engine at 9.4:1 compression to put out 229 foot pounds of torque at the crest of its torque curve for a vehicle of defined specifications, weight, coefficient of drag, etc. These values are at ideal operating conditions – designed to be >99% of specifications in real life situations. The use of 91 octane, therefore, is to give you the optimum performance of the engine. The use of this octane does not mean you get better fuel mileage; you get the rated, as calculated and tested fuel mileage. Read on.
The next step was a theoretical evaluation of fuel consumption, done on a computer, over varying speeds to arrive at how much fuel will be needed to drive this vehicle over a certain distance. You thus arrive at fuel consumption levels and the speed at which you will get the best fuel economy on a level surface and at a steady speed over a fixed distance. The Ody has been calculated to be 93kmph. In this calculation variables such as fuel consumed at stop lights with vehicle in gear and brake engaged (not parking brake), idling for more than 15 seconds, etc., are not considered. The result is the fuel consumption under ‘normal’ conditions for this vehicle using 91 octane.
There is more. This is getting long but interesting. Anyway, in the interest of interest….(where did that come from??)
The use of 87 octane is not going to ruin your engine. In fact, the Ody was designed to run on 86 Octane or higher. Adaptive engine management has taken care of that. Automatic engine ‘advance’ and ‘retard’. This is the moment of ‘spark’ in relation to topmost cylinder travel position and the detonation that is required to move the cylinder into its power stroke. In the old days engine knock in automatic transmission vehicles was very prevalent. In today’s high tech engines it is just not engine retard that aids in anti-knock. Transmissions lock on a pre-determined ratio that prevents the driver from ‘pushing his vehicle over the edge’ just to get that speed on hilly terrain. It is the same system that prevents engine damage caused by loss of traction (TCS on); controlled by the transmission. Won’t allow your engine to keep revving. Another valuable feature in your Ody. If you make a panic stop (maybe downhill), based on brake pressure and speed of travel, your cylinders actually ‘cut out’. Meaning, fuel and spark is stopped to all your cylinders and total engine retard is used to try and bring you to a quicker stop.
Some questions assuming yours is an EX: - Do you keep your vehicle on FULL AUTO or is your A/C switch on all the time? - Why is your A/C switch on all the time on cold days? - If you prefer to keep the switch permanently on, why do you start vehicle with it on and not temporarily turn it off. If so, make that a practice. - Not intending to question your intelligence, have you checked and are fully convinced it is the A/C clutch?
In full auto, on a cold day, your systems computer should not be signaling the A/C at all, unless you over-ride by engaging ‘defrost’ or A/C ‘on’. Fresh air and A/C come on automatically with defrost. Your computer should be diagnosed with an OBDII scanner. A detailed program test is provided in the shop manual and if under warranty, should be done free of cost by your dealer.
Leaving your A/C permanently on, in my opinion and that of most electronic clutch operated system designers, is not a good practice. However, for those who find it bothersome, Honda has programmed a delay into the clutch operation system, meaning, the engine is first readied for the added load and only then is the clutch engaged. Your system needs to be checked. If this ‘clunk’ you talk about has been repeated often enough you probably need a change of clutch pressure plates/complete assembly.
You have automatic climate control on the EX. Except to over-ride fan speed or require defrosting, leave it on auto at the desired temperature. The system does a wonderful job of keeping the interior at a pleasant level, mixing cooled and ambient air that also contributes greatly to fuel economy. However, if you are experiencing the noise in full auto and cold weather, a full diagnostics has to be done on the air handling system by a qualified tech. It is many, many pages long.
Whatever you know or whatever anyone has told you, pulling a fuse will not reset the computer in the terms you recognize as ‘reset’. Let safety and not curiosity go with you. The PCM carries out what is known as “non-restrictive self diagnostics” and all DTCs of vital functions are stored in a secondary EEPROM that cannot be erased by pulling fuses. After all, the system was designed with your safety in mind, not with your (or anyone else’s, for that matter) ability to fool it into complacency. Consequently, warning lights will not come on and go off in the sequence you presume they will, just because you pulled a fuse or flicked a switch.
Do you have a good dealer service or do you know a trustworthy garage technician with an OBDII Scan Tool? With today’s technology, garages cannot do without this item, although they may possess older type diagnostic tools with clip-in cartridges for new vehicles. Check your manufacturer’s warranty that comes with your owner’s manual. I think you are still covered for this item. Coincidence, it may or may not be, but gasoline fill-up and TCS/ABS problems are not related at all. There is nothing electronic in your gasoline fill up/capping system.
For whatever reason, at some time a DTC related to TCS has been stored in the PCM. It could be anything from bending/damage to one of your wheel sensors (probably drove over some hardened snow that clipped the suspension sending debris into the sensor) to modulator pump problems. My tech says this probably is a vital DTC and when/if you pulled the fuse, a second and bigger warning was signaled by the PCM to the Check Engine light. Meaning, you better get the problem diagnosed and fixed. Even if you did not pull the fuse, the same DTC input to the PCM a number of times would signal you did not take prompt action when the TCS light came on and you could be looking at a potentially dangerous problem. A warning to attend to the matter without fail.
I don’t know what it is going to cost you, but you need to take a serious look at this DTC. You have purchased a 30K machine and seem all hung up about the technological advances put into it to make it safe for you to drive. You can cheat the system just so long – one day it might just catch up with you. And, don’t be so untrustworthy about mechanics. If one knows what he is doing, it is going to be a benefit to you.
Good luck to fixing, hopefully, a minor problem. Safe and happy driving.
Whatever you know or whatever anyone has told you, pulling a fuse will not reset the computer in the terms you recognize as ‘reset’. Let safety and not curiosity go with you. The PCM carries out what is known as “non-restrictive self diagnostics” and all DTCs of vital functions are stored in a secondary EEPROM that cannot be erased by pulling fuses. After all, the system was designed with your safety in mind, not with your (or anyone else’s, for that matter) ability to fool it into complacency. Consequently, warning lights will not come on and go off in the sequence you presume they will, just because you pulled a fuse or flicked a switch.""
You might want to check the Ody shop manual on page 11-4 for reset instructions. The lights have not been on for several days and over 1,000 miles. Until they come on again, the problem is gone.
I get the impression that your dealer saying ‘engine light’ not coming on signified no problem since a compression DTC has not yet been recognized. He has gone overboard with 7500 miles to break in the vehicle. As I have mentioned earlier, break-in involves the complete drive-train and not just the engine.
The use of either regular or premium gas (both should be unleaded) is not going to effect your engine break-in. On a brand new engine, directives have been issued to drive slowly (or at a slower pace – which is not very clearly identified) to allow all close tolerance contact surfaces to mesh with one another. These include, but are not limited to, pistons, cams, drives, rod connectors, etc. 500 miles is still early to gauge your ideal consumption. It is also possible you have a ‘tight’ engine.
There are test results that also show that new or re-built engines driven at high speed and temperature take longer to break in. The discussion is that expansion values of all friction parts are just too high to allow them to properly seat at high temperatures. Your temperature gauge stays at one point, but you do not know the overload on the cooling system at high speeds and temperatures.
If you can identify the same problem after 1500 miles of driving, your dealer will have to perform a full diagnostic and compression test on the engine. These will tell you if you have over-hardened piston rings/seals and if just too much force is needed to move one or more piston. Remember that excessive high speed driving under this condition could cause out-of-round cylinder damage. My advice is to get it attended to right after 1500 miles if you see no change.
Talk to you dealer service manager/tech. Refuel gas light is signaled when the PCM receives a signal from your fuel sending unit. It is the ‘reserve’ point of your tank. Once the light is on, it won’t go off until fuel is filled up and the PCM ‘sees’ this.
There is a problem if the light comes on at the half tank mark. Two things are possible. Your tank float or the electronics are not working properly. Either way, a diagnostics has to be done and in all probability, the fuel-sending unit has to be replaced.
I understand that that shift-lock was tested at minus 60C but won’t discount the cold and possible frozen moisture for the problem.
Hopefully, it won’t happen again, but my tech suggested that if it happens again, before over-riding the lock mechanism check if the brake switch release controller is working properly. At all times, with lever in Park, if you press and release the brake pedal you should hear a very audible clicking sound. If you don’t hear it in the cold, then the shift-lock brake release controller must be changed.
Maybe, instead of waiting for it to happen again, get your dealer to check it for you. I think you have pretty good relations with him. Don’t get stranded anywhere.
Rvsnv, I have a couple of question for you just to get a clearer picture.
- What temperature was it outside in the rain and what was your dial setting at? - Why did you have the fan on ‘high’? - Were you trying to defog with A/C alone or did you have the ‘defog’ on as well? (Not intended to question your intelligence).
A/C will bring in fresh air but will circulate all air through its cooler fins to dehumidify the air. However, it will not remove moisture already on the surface of the windscreen. For that you will need a certain amount of heat.
Once the windscreen is warmed up, it won’t allow moisture to adhere to it and cycling the A/C once in a while will help to remove moisture within the vehicle.
Due you think some small leaves could have fallen into your air intake grill and molding due to the dampness? That is the only way the odour of mildew can come into the vehicle. Also, cooling the air (A/C on) is not going to remove the odour of mildew coming in. You and/or your dealer should check this and have the slop tray cleaned out. Also, if not done, pieces or whole leaves could be sucked into the intake passages when the vent door opens.
A/C working or not. When you press the button it should indicate it is on. If the A/C has failed, the light will still come on but the check engine light will come on too and will have to be diagnosed. If you want to do a physical check, have someone responsible engage the switch while you look at the unit under the hood. If the temperature settings are right, you will see the clutch engage. A safety factor built in if you’re A/C runs out of gas is that he unit will not come on at all (clutch won’t engage).
Note that you can put the A/C on when the temperature is in a ‘heat’ setting.
Did you not get a letter from Honda re the recall for instrument light failure? Keep the appointment with your dealer who will check his computer for your VIN and in all likelihood change the multiplex unit. You probably don’t need to know the real cause of the problem.
Are the guide wheels on the manual sliding doors (LX model) supposed to "chatter" when I close the doors? Both doors make the same noise. The sound is more prominent when the outside temperature is colder (we're in the single digits here tonight). Just curious. Otherwise, we love the van.
I don't know whether they're supposed to chatter or not, but they do - even on the automatic EX doors. I think the rubber rollers develop flat spots which don't go away when it's cold. When the temp warms, they quiet back down.
Hello there, I am back from the trip - 850 miles, which brings my van to a total of 2200 miles.
Yes, my dream machine has performed very well, my only dissapoinments were 22mpg and poor rear window washer. The NAV system took me exactly where I wanted to go, with a good routing around detours.
As for trans shift lock problem, I did not hear the clicking sound nor had the stop lights working at that time - which makes me believe that the "switch" got frozen from moisture. It worked ever since then, I probably had over 100 "out of P" events in very cold weather (around 5 degrees F)
As for gas mileage, I did not see any difference between using 87 and 91 octane of gas. So, to save money and also having read your explanation of how it works, will switch back to "regular" gas. I was driving around 65-80 mph, thus probably poor mileage.
We just bought a 2001 EX and have noticed a funny noise in the rear of the van when we reverse or when we are slowing down to brake. I suspect that it is the gas in the tank sloshing around (we have a full tank at the moment). Has anyone else noticed this. We only notice it when the radio was off, so the interior has to be pretty quiet to hear it.
Does anyone notice their steering clicking when they turn from the center steering position. It sounds like the steering lock is clicking one time, every time I turn from the centered steering position. Please tell me if this a "normal" trait.
Hi everyone. I haven't been around these parts since I purchased my Ody. I've had all the recommended service. I have almost 20K miles, mostly city driving. I get a lot of vibration in the steering column at higher speeds, especially when rounding curves or taking exit ramps. I also get a frequent clunk from the rear axle. I took it to the dealer and was told the problem is my tires. The front two are wearing very badly. One of the mechs suggested I call Freestone because I shouldn't have that problem at 20K. I still think it's the van causing the problem and the uneven wear on the tires. Has anyone had this problem and had it successfully resolved?
I have a 2000 Odyssey LX with about 14,000 miles on it. Two problems I have had with it were; 1. The parking brake light did not come on when the parking brake was engaged. The dealer fixed that no problem. 2. Both sliding doors were always very hard to open, sticking when shut. Once released they would slide fine. One day I broke the handle trying to open one of the sliding doors, took it to the dealer and they fixed the handle and both doors, no problem. has anyone else ever had any problems like this? Also I'm not quite sure how the middle A/C and heat controls work. The manual doesn't explain it well at all, but the rear controls on the dash seem to be for the ceiling ducts all the way in the back. While the middle controls do nothing. Any help here?
Depending on what kind of wear you're experiencing, I would say that the problem is about 94% probability of an alignment problem with the van, 5% an inflation problem with the tires and about 1% an actual defect in the tires.
I put 65k on my Firestones before replacing them with about 2-3k left in the tread.
Doors on my '00 EX have had on and off minor probs since day of delivery (yup, day of delivery), but had been infrequent and easy to solve until recently. At last service, I had the latch recall done and when I told them about door problems, they said warranty repair would fix all these probs. Only seems to have made it worse.
Passenger slider has problem closing - often does not pull in all the way at the end, sometimes motor whirrs continually until dash switch is shut off. Other times, looks closed but shifting into drive activates the warning whine and dash light. Sometimes a few tries needed before it shuts tight. Driver slider sometimes only opens halfway, then goes out of business.
Was in to Honda last week, left the car all day. They told me doors operating within designed specification.
Today both doors acted up simultaneously. I called Honda. They are going to check them out again. Great. This will be 5th time van in for the doors, and it is not quite a year old yet.
Frankly, I an really disappointed that this is happenning in a Honda. While I often complain about my other car (Pontiac Boneville), it's a 1994 and has only been in to the shop 3 times this year. It's got about 2 shop visits and 6 years on the Honda.
Any one out there with any ideas on the genesis or perhaps solutions to these problem? Interesting thing is that each door has a different problem - makes me think manufacturing defects.
My biggest concern is the safety aspect. These doors secure the portion of the cabin where the kids sit, and they only seem to open all the way or close tight per their own Grinchy agenda.
After 30K on my 99 Ody EX (2 years of commuter driving) and most everything is fine. Brakes need new pads and 2 tires have major tread wear. Seems a little premature to have to replace tires already. I think this is because of the high profile and weight of the vehicle.
Other small things: new windshield needed after flying rock hit it. ($300 repair). Some early dashboards squeaks that worked themselves out. Roof rack part that has flown off twice. Occasionally the doors act up and won't close all the way. This has happened more that half dozen times and always goes away when you wipe the track with a cloth. Overall, I am pleased.
Regarding your reply in posting #171, I couldn't understanding the symbols (..) translates to. My OD's fuel light keeps coming on when it should near "I". However, when I fill up it only takes 14 - 15 gallons. I have taken it back to the dealer last week and they said the couldn't replicate the problem. Then the service advisor went on to say that only 18 out of the 20 gallons in the tank is usable. I asked them to show me documentation where that is stated. Of course they couldn't so they ordered a new gas sending unit to see if it will fix the problem. It is unbelievable what the service advisors will tell you. This guy also told me that the amount of gas in the tank is measured by temperature. Of course I asked where is it documented.
Has anyone else been experiencing a similar problem?
I put 18.6 gals in my tank the other day. I could not run it empty this time due to logistics. Soon however, I will run it dry and report back. What is the most you have put in the tank?
I took my 01 Ody or the road for the first time. Gas mileage was about 22 mpg. Seems low compared to some of the posts I have seen. Anybody have any feedback?
My driveway slopes up about 20 degrees and sometimes, when the tank looks 1/4 and all is hunky dory, the light will go on after I pull in the driveway. When I get in the car next time, after I pull onto the street I see the gas gauge level climb a bit. My other car does this too, as gas sloshes (inaudibly in the car) to the back of the tank on the hill. Thus, I cannot see how the Odyssey tracks gas volume by temperature, but I do think temp can play a role in the absolute volume in the tank. When I fill up the Odyssey in this setting, I typically put in 15 gal. I now know there is this warning zone with plenty of leeway - it gets me to fill up sooner than later, but I know if in a crunch I stil have many miles to go before a fill up is crtitical. I do not mind it, better safe than sorry.
We just purchased a new '01 Odyssey (1,500 mi currently). We have been pleased so far, but have noticed a noise coming from the rear of the van. When I apply the brakes and come to a stop I hear a low thud and then another thud as if something is rolling around somewhere in the lower end of the rear of the van. When I start from a stop "it" rolls and "thuds" again. It's not super-noisy, but you can hear and feel it. But, it doesn't seem to affect performance at all. Anybody else notice this?
We have a new '01 Odyssey. I can go about 200 miles (driving mix) before the low fuel light comes on. I filled up (premium gas) and the tank only took 14 gallons, meaning I still had 6 gallons in the tank... Is this a normal time for the low fuel light to come on? Also 14 gallons over 200 miles is only about 14 MPG. Is my fuel gauge off? Will my mileage improve over time? Anyone else getting bad MPG? thanks
Scroll back through topics 'Honda Odyssey XXX' and 'Honda Odyssey Problems VII' for posts on MPG. You are not alone. I've found that when I wait until the low fuel light comes on to refuel I end up putting in between 14-15 gal. So your gauge is probably fine, and hopefully the MPG will improve as you put more miles on it.
Steerlerscot, we have a 01 Ody and have been getting about 14 mpg. in the city. You are not alone; I have the same questions. I think that 14 mpg is poor, just a little better than a big SUV. I'm waiting for it to improve. Highway use gets around 22 mpg. I'll post if I see some improvement.
That sounds like the gas sloshing noise that is characteristic of the Odyssey. Due to the tank design, fuel moves backs and forth and causes the noise. After a while it "disappears" as you get used to it.
I'm getting around 16 in almost all city/suburban driving. Keep in mind, it hasn't been above 25 in over a week, I have snow tires on, and oxygenated fuel is in use here in MA.
Got over 20 in the summer and that was an improvement as the van accumulated mileage. Remember, this van weighs 4300 lbs. about half way between an Explorer and an Expedition.
just discovered you can click on it and get any new posts in your forums, one forum at a time. kind of neat. but for some bizzare reason these three buttons are not available outside of any forum. it would be nice to bookmark a page that contained those three buttons that was not not a forum page.
I hear a popping noise when I turn off the ignition and let my foot of the break. It has been there since new (4 week old '01 EX). It seems to come from underneath the dash. It is a single pop. Doesn't seem to be causing any problems. Anybody know the cause?
I have Ody 00 with Firestone Affinity Touring S+M (Snow and Mud) tires. While driving on a snow covered street (but not icy) I found that the van definitely does not behave well: slow braking, skidding if turning.
Did anyone have the same experience?
I drove another minivan a lot - Nissan Multi with cheap winter tires - and I never had this kind of problems.
Comments
Thanks, Rob
(In 1999, the LX came with Michelins and the EX came with Firestones.)
I've checked the appropriate fuse (fine), and it's not the brightness adjustment.
Anyone have a similar problem or an opinion on the solution? My wonderful dealer can make an appointment for me on the 29th -- so helpful!
Thanks for your assistance.
Also, you surely must be aware that manufacturers do not tend to put the finer tires on as standard equipment....
Karen mentions that on this new format messages cannot be hidden. I was hoping I could do that to prevent annoying some readers. I do have some postings,unfortunately, they are of decent length and for particular readers. Hope my material helps, and those who are annoyed with me, please skip my messages.
Thanks to all.
Door contact switch alignment is the cause of most door opening/closing problems. (Not really the door alignment itself, unless vehicle has been in an accident and has sustained frame damage of guide wheels broken). In your case your door motor is also out of synchronization. If you/dealer have tried to close a partly open door by forcing it, before putting Master Switch to ‘Off’, the latching mechanism is forced out of sync. This mechanism has a unit in it that counts off the number of revolutions it makes to fully open or fully close a door. This is tied into the motor from which it receives its signal to stop working in either direction. Latching sensors then fully lock the door upon closing.
Alarms are also tied into the door latching open/close sensor, and that is why they keep going off at odd times. The latching sensor signals the door closed, but the contact switch is not closed and so the beeper goes off saying the door is not closed. Only your passenger side door is malfunctioning. However, even if the driver side door is okay, both doors are not synchronized.
The shop manual details a ten page diagnostic and complete synchronization of sensors, doors and door motors. It is a painstaking job and cannot be done trial-and-error, which seems the dealer’s current approach.
Make it a policy (after everything is fixed and working properly) never to do two things. Don’t change the status of cabin light master switch once doors are opened. Also, if for any reason doors malfunction with switches, don’t manually work them unless totally inoperable. Work the switches on the dash, the door and the fob till they return to normal.
Please post your results and good luck to working with the dealer to solving the malfunctioning door.
The fuse in the circuit provides over-current protection of the indicator circuit. The PCM has a different SCR circuit that signals the Check Engine Light to come “on” when a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) input is received by the PCM. The DTC is then stored in the EEPROM. This trouble code could remain, or be removed if the problem can be self diagnosed and ‘fixed’ – meaning, it does not reappear .
If you care less why your CE light came on, you could just pull the fuse. However, that does not erase the trouble code/s stored in the computer and the light can/will reappear. If you don’t have the equipment, a more sensible thing would be to go to your dealer (or your garage) who will connect a Honda or OBDII Scanner to your vehicle, extract the code/s, repair the problem and then erase the codes from the EEPROM in a prescribed sequence, The CE light signal will be scanned and, if everything okay, signal light to go “off”.
On a side note…
It takes < 1 second to open a circuit. Spark, damage and/or fire can occur when trying to remove a fuse in voltage retention circuits that are ‘live’ at all times across the fuse. But shop manuals rarely let you touch these fuses without fully disabling the circuit first. Memory retention circuits do not go through fuses. Where allowed, a circuit is open the moment the fuse is removed.
Also…manufacturers can program the on-board computer to do a full diagnostic and reset at prescribed intervals. GM does this every thirty-fifth time the engine is started up. With new technology ‘check system indicators’ are very important. The computer is not going to let you fool around with its functions and purpose
Yes, removing ‘power’ can disable every electrical system and sub-system in the vehicle. Personally, I don’t think disabling any system, let alone the ABS, is advisable.
Loosing vehicular control, especially a loss of road grip, can be a frightening experience to say the least.
Except for a bit of patience and some new learning, your wife can get to master ABS. Any chance of an added $200 driver course on a driving school training ice/snow skidpad – the ones that train you with your own vehicle?
Your wife loves the Civic because she has inadvertently attuned herself to its braking. To stop on a slippery surface she is probably exerting mild pressure or even slowly pumping the brakes, all the time sensing the vehicle’s motion through the wheels. Mind you, the Civic is a smaller and lighter vehicle.
Nothing to be frightened about with the Ody. There is a lot of snow and ice around – empty parking lots and other places. Get her to do exactly the same; exert pressure of varying intensities on the brakes and get a ‘sense’ and ‘taste’ of the vehicle’s movement from its wheels upwards. She will master it in no time.
Some very important notes for ABS users – notwithstanding everything written about by manufacturers and statistics provided by compilers.
- On dry/wet road ABS works like conventional brakes. A post mentioned that ABS operated while driving in the rain. Design parameters stipulate that hydroplaning provides the same reference vehicle speed to wheel speed and vehicle should brake conventionally. To a wheel, water under it is actually ‘felt’ as a ‘hard surface’ (water providing dynamic resistance) and not as if riding on air.
- ABS design parameters advise that even under extreme braking on hard, non-skid surfaces (no sand, snow, etc.), if your ABS activates, please have the pump modulator checked/replaced. It dictates that with summer tires on a hard surface, an ABS equipped vehicle should literally be able to stop on a dime. The EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution) is designed such that braking is first applied to the rear brakes, vehicle to wheel speed references are taken and then braking to the front applied. It is to make all things equal before ABS comes into play if needed. However, this is design theory. Concerns are with ABS applying prematurely on such surfaces. Published stopping distances are done on non-skid surfaces and hard rubber tires.
- On every/all skid prone surfaces ABS is not designed to stop a vehicle quicker, faster, slower, nearer or further away. The law of Physics – momentum – in relation to vehicles, is based on its contact surface with the road – its tires. Any forward skid situation translates into lack of maneuverability and ABS is designed to prevent wheel lockup (skid), thereby allowing the driver to [try] and steer away from an obstacle. Stopping distances and times are totally dependent on road surface [and speed of travel] and in those few precious seconds if the steering is not slowly turned away from an obstacle, there is nothing to stop an ABS equipped vehicle from rolling into (and not sliding into) that obstacle. There is no magic, you have to get used to ABS and most of them are heart stopping experiences. You stopped safely…is what counts in the end. [Incidentally, the same goes for a vehicle with conventional brakes, if caution is not adhered to when road conditions are not safe].
- There is a relation between brake pressure and ABS activation. Slow speed with enough distance can actually get ABS to work with very little brake pulsation on a very slippery surface. You can literally hear the tires holding the ice. Ody has four-channel independent ABS and pulsation depends on how many channels are activated. A panic stomp on the brake will cause
Alex, have you made that trip yet? Is everything working well with your dream machine?
To avoid complaints I will just say that when all the numbers are put together, internationally, engine manufacturing convention goes that any engine with a compression ration of 9:1 and higher, is designed to achieve maximum output with a fuel octane rating of 90, or higher. A Compression ratio of 8:1 or higher references 80 plus octane, a value most vehicles still go by. A post once asked why ratings like 87, 89, etc. Well, engine compression is one of the factors. (I ran my 5.7 litre high compression ’81 Buick LeSabre in the Middle East on 98 octane).
As consumers, at some time we arrived at equating octane rating with octane cost differences and some posts have tried to justify one against the other. It does not work that way and manufacturers of engines and/or automotive gas did not work it out that way. If it was, there would be any number of high octane ratings to grab your money.
Let us consider one example. The Odys that we all bought. Due to its low revving high compression engine, the theoretically calculated ‘coefficient of thermal combustion‘ (the algorithmic coefficient of detonation – octane value) was deemed to be 91.3. That enables the engine at 9.4:1 compression to put out 229 foot pounds of torque at the crest of its torque curve for a vehicle of defined specifications, weight, coefficient of drag, etc. These values are at ideal operating conditions – designed to be >99% of specifications in real life situations. The use of 91 octane, therefore, is to give you the optimum performance of the engine. The use of this octane does not mean you get better fuel mileage; you get the rated, as calculated and tested fuel mileage. Read on.
The next step was a theoretical evaluation of fuel consumption, done on a computer, over varying speeds to arrive at how much fuel will be needed to drive this vehicle over a certain distance. You thus arrive at fuel consumption levels and the speed at which you will get the best fuel economy on a level surface and at a steady speed over a fixed distance. The Ody has been calculated to be 93kmph. In this calculation variables such as fuel consumed at stop lights with vehicle in gear and brake engaged (not parking brake), idling for more than 15 seconds, etc., are not considered. The result is the fuel consumption under ‘normal’ conditions for this vehicle using 91 octane.
There is more. This is getting long but interesting. Anyway, in the interest of interest….(where did that come from??)
The use of 87 octane is not going to ruin your engine. In fact, the Ody was designed to run on 86 Octane or higher. Adaptive engine management has taken care of that. Automatic engine ‘advance’ and ‘retard’. This is the moment of ‘spark’ in relation to topmost cylinder travel position and the detonation that is required to move the cylinder into its power stroke. In the old days engine knock in automatic transmission vehicles was very prevalent. In today’s high tech engines it is just not engine retard that aids in anti-knock. Transmissions lock on a pre-determined ratio that prevents the driver from ‘pushing his vehicle over the edge’ just to get that speed on hilly terrain. It is the same system that prevents engine damage caused by loss of traction (TCS on); controlled by the transmission. Won’t allow your engine to keep revving. Another valuable feature in your Ody. If you make a panic stop (maybe downhill), based on brake pressure and speed of travel, your cylinders actually ‘cut out’. Meaning, fuel and spark is stopped to all your cylinders and total engine retard is used to try and bring you to a quicker stop.
I don’t know about the US, but fue
Some questions assuming yours is an EX:
- Do you keep your vehicle on FULL AUTO or is your A/C switch on all the time?
- Why is your A/C switch on all the time on cold days?
- If you prefer to keep the switch permanently on, why do you start vehicle with it on and not temporarily turn it off. If so, make that a practice.
- Not intending to question your intelligence, have you checked and are fully convinced it is the A/C clutch?
In full auto, on a cold day, your systems computer should not be signaling the A/C at all, unless you over-ride by engaging ‘defrost’ or A/C ‘on’. Fresh air and A/C come on automatically with defrost. Your computer should be diagnosed with an OBDII scanner. A detailed program test is provided in the shop manual and if under warranty, should be done free of cost by your dealer.
Leaving your A/C permanently on, in my opinion and that of most electronic clutch operated system designers, is not a good practice. However, for those who find it bothersome, Honda has programmed a delay into the clutch operation system, meaning, the engine is first readied for the added load and only then is the clutch engaged. Your system needs to be checked. If this ‘clunk’ you talk about has been repeated often enough you probably need a change of clutch pressure plates/complete assembly.
You have automatic climate control on the EX. Except to over-ride fan speed or require defrosting, leave it on auto at the desired temperature. The system does a wonderful job of keeping the interior at a pleasant level, mixing cooled and ambient air that also contributes greatly to fuel economy. However, if you are experiencing the noise in full auto and cold weather, a full diagnostics has to be done on the air handling system by a qualified tech. It is many, many pages long.
Happy driving.
Whatever you know or whatever anyone has told you, pulling a fuse will not reset the computer in the terms you recognize as ‘reset’. Let safety and not curiosity go with you. The PCM carries out what is known as “non-restrictive self diagnostics” and all DTCs of vital functions are stored in a secondary EEPROM that cannot be erased by pulling fuses. After all, the system was designed with your safety in mind, not with your (or anyone else’s, for that matter) ability to fool it into complacency. Consequently, warning lights will not come on and go off in the sequence you presume they will, just because you pulled a fuse or flicked a switch.
Do you have a good dealer service or do you know a trustworthy garage technician with an OBDII Scan Tool? With today’s technology, garages cannot do without this item, although they may possess older type diagnostic tools with clip-in cartridges for new vehicles. Check your manufacturer’s warranty that comes with your owner’s manual. I think you are still covered for this item. Coincidence, it may or may not be, but gasoline fill-up and TCS/ABS problems are not related at all. There is nothing electronic in your gasoline fill up/capping system.
For whatever reason, at some time a DTC related to TCS has been stored in the PCM. It could be anything from bending/damage to one of your wheel sensors (probably drove over some hardened snow that clipped the suspension sending debris into the sensor) to modulator pump problems. My tech says this probably is a vital DTC and when/if you pulled the fuse, a second and bigger warning was signaled by the PCM to the Check Engine light. Meaning, you better get the problem diagnosed and fixed. Even if you did not pull the fuse, the same DTC input to the PCM a number of times would signal you did not take prompt action when the TCS light came on and you could be looking at a potentially dangerous problem. A warning to attend to the matter without fail.
I don’t know what it is going to cost you, but you need to take a serious look at this DTC. You have purchased a 30K machine and seem all hung up about the technological advances put into it to make it safe for you to drive. You can cheat the system just so long – one day it might just catch up with you. And, don’t be so untrustworthy about mechanics. If one knows what he is doing, it is going to be a benefit to you.
Good luck to fixing, hopefully, a minor problem. Safe and happy driving.
Whatever you know or whatever anyone has told you, pulling a fuse will not reset the computer in
the terms you recognize as ‘reset’. Let safety and not curiosity go with you. The
PCM carries out what is known as “non-restrictive self diagnostics” and all DTCs
of vital functions are stored in a secondary EEPROM that cannot be erased by pulling fuses.
After all, the system was designed with your safety in mind, not with your (or anyone
else’s, for that matter) ability to fool it into complacency. Consequently, warning lights will
not come on and go off in the sequence you presume they will, just because you pulled a fuse or
flicked a switch.""
You might want to check the Ody shop manual on page 11-4 for reset instructions. The lights have not been on for several days and over 1,000 miles. Until they come on again, the problem is gone.
I get the impression that your dealer saying ‘engine light’ not coming on signified no problem since a compression DTC has not yet been recognized. He has gone overboard with 7500 miles to break in the vehicle. As I have mentioned earlier, break-in involves the complete drive-train and not just the engine.
The use of either regular or premium gas (both should be unleaded) is not going to effect your engine break-in. On a brand new engine, directives have been issued to drive slowly (or at a slower pace – which is not very clearly identified) to allow all close tolerance contact surfaces to mesh with one another. These include, but are not limited to, pistons, cams, drives, rod connectors, etc. 500 miles is still early to gauge your ideal consumption. It is also possible you have a ‘tight’ engine.
There are test results that also show that new or re-built engines driven at high speed and temperature take longer to break in. The discussion is that expansion values of all friction parts are just too high to allow them to properly seat at high temperatures. Your temperature gauge stays at one point, but you do not know the overload on the cooling system at high speeds and temperatures.
If you can identify the same problem after 1500 miles of driving, your dealer will have to perform a full diagnostic and compression test on the engine. These will tell you if you have over-hardened piston rings/seals and if just too much force is needed to move one or more piston. Remember that excessive high speed driving under this condition could cause out-of-round cylinder damage. My advice is to get it attended to right after 1500 miles if you see no change.
Please post your findings and Happy driving.
Talk to you dealer service manager/tech. Refuel gas light is signaled when the PCM receives a signal from your fuel sending unit. It is the ‘reserve’ point of your tank. Once the light is on, it won’t go off until fuel is filled up and the PCM ‘sees’ this.
There is a problem if the light comes on at the half tank mark. Two things are possible. Your tank float or the electronics are not working properly. Either way, a diagnostics has to be done and in all probability, the fuel-sending unit has to be replaced.
Good luck to fixing the problem.
I understand that that shift-lock was tested at minus 60C but won’t discount the cold and possible frozen moisture for the problem.
Hopefully, it won’t happen again, but my tech suggested that if it happens again, before over-riding the lock mechanism check if the brake switch release controller is working properly. At all times, with lever in Park, if you press and release the brake pedal you should hear a very audible clicking sound. If you don’t hear it in the cold, then the shift-lock brake release controller must be changed.
Maybe, instead of waiting for it to happen again, get your dealer to check it for you. I think you have pretty good relations with him. Don’t get stranded anywhere.
Keep me informed and take care.
Rvsnv, I have a couple of question for you just to get a clearer picture.
- What temperature was it outside in the rain and what was your dial setting at?
- Why did you have the fan on ‘high’?
- Were you trying to defog with A/C alone or did you have the ‘defog’ on as well? (Not intended to question your intelligence).
A/C will bring in fresh air but will circulate all air through its cooler fins to dehumidify the air. However, it will not remove moisture already on the surface of the windscreen. For that you will need a certain amount of heat.
Once the windscreen is warmed up, it won’t allow moisture to adhere to it and cycling the A/C once in a while will help to remove moisture within the vehicle.
Due you think some small leaves could have fallen into your air intake grill and molding due to the dampness? That is the only way the odour of mildew can come into the vehicle. Also, cooling the air (A/C on) is not going to remove the odour of mildew coming in. You and/or your dealer should check this and have the slop tray cleaned out. Also, if not done, pieces or whole leaves could be sucked into the intake passages when the vent door opens.
A/C working or not. When you press the button it should indicate it is on. If the A/C has failed, the light will still come on but the check engine light will come on too and will have to be diagnosed. If you want to do a physical check, have someone responsible engage the switch while you look at the unit under the hood. If the temperature settings are right, you will see the clutch engage. A safety factor built in if you’re A/C runs out of gas is that he unit will not come on at all (clutch won’t engage).
Note that you can put the A/C on when the temperature is in a ‘heat’ setting.
Do a check and post your findings.
Did you not get a letter from Honda re the recall for instrument light failure? Keep the appointment with your dealer who will check his computer for your VIN and in all likelihood change the multiplex unit. You probably don’t need to know the real cause of the problem.
Good luck to a quick fix.
Yes, my dream machine has performed very well, my only dissapoinments were 22mpg and poor rear window washer. The NAV system took me exactly where I wanted to go, with a good routing around detours.
As for trans shift lock problem, I did not hear the clicking sound nor had the stop lights working at that time - which makes me believe that the "switch" got frozen from moisture. It worked ever since then, I probably had over 100 "out of P" events in very cold weather (around 5 degrees F)
As for gas mileage, I did not see any difference between using 87 and 91 octane of gas. So, to save money and also having read your explanation of how it works, will switch back to "regular" gas. I was driving around 65-80 mph, thus probably poor mileage.
I've had all the recommended service. I have almost 20K miles, mostly city driving. I get a lot of vibration in the steering column at higher speeds, especially when rounding curves or taking exit ramps. I also get a frequent clunk from the rear axle. I took it to the dealer and was told the problem is my tires. The front two are wearing very badly. One of the mechs suggested I call Freestone because I shouldn't have that problem at 20K. I still think it's the van causing the problem and the uneven wear on the tires. Has anyone had this problem and had it successfully resolved?
Also I'm not quite sure how the middle A/C and heat controls work. The manual doesn't explain it well at all, but the rear controls on the dash seem to be for the ceiling ducts all the way in the back. While the middle controls do nothing. Any help here?
-Mark
I put 65k on my Firestones before replacing them with about 2-3k left in the tread.
Passenger slider has problem closing - often does not pull in all the way at the end, sometimes motor whirrs continually until dash switch is shut off. Other times, looks closed but shifting into drive activates the warning whine and dash light. Sometimes a few tries needed before it shuts tight.
Driver slider sometimes only opens halfway, then goes out of business.
Was in to Honda last week, left the car all day. They told me doors operating within designed specification.
Today both doors acted up simultaneously. I called Honda. They are going to check them out again. Great. This will be 5th time van in for the doors, and it is not quite a year old yet.
Frankly, I an really disappointed that this is happenning in a Honda. While I often complain about my other car (Pontiac Boneville), it's a 1994 and has only been in to the shop 3 times this year. It's got about 2 shop visits and 6 years on the Honda.
Any one out there with any ideas on the genesis or perhaps solutions to these problem? Interesting thing is that each door has a different problem - makes me think manufacturing defects.
My biggest concern is the safety aspect. These doors secure the portion of the cabin where the kids sit, and they only seem to open all the way or close tight per their own Grinchy agenda.
Other small things: new windshield needed after flying rock hit it. ($300 repair). Some early dashboards squeaks that worked themselves out. Roof rack part that has flown off twice. Occasionally the doors act up and won't close all the way. This has happened more that half dozen times and always goes away when you wipe the track with a cloth. Overall, I am pleased.
Regarding your reply in posting #171, I couldn't understanding the symbols (..) translates to. My OD's fuel light keeps coming on when it should near "I". However, when I fill up it only takes 14 - 15 gallons. I have taken it back to the dealer last week and they said the couldn't replicate the problem. Then the service advisor went on to say that only 18 out of the 20 gallons in the tank is usable. I asked them to show me documentation where that is stated. Of course they couldn't so they ordered a new gas sending unit to see if it will fix the problem. It is unbelievable what the service advisors will tell you. This guy also told me that the amount of gas in the tank is measured by temperature. Of course I asked where is it documented.
Has anyone else been experiencing a similar problem?
Thanks in advance for clearing up those symbols.
When I fill up the Odyssey in this setting, I typically put in 15 gal. I now know there is this warning zone with plenty of leeway - it gets me to fill up sooner than later, but I know if in a crunch I stil have many miles to go before a fill up is crtitical. I do not mind it, better safe than sorry.
I'm getting around 16 in almost all city/suburban driving. Keep in mind, it hasn't been above 25 in over a week, I have snow tires on, and oxygenated fuel is in use here in MA.
Got over 20 in the summer and that was an improvement as the van accumulated mileage. Remember, this van weighs 4300 lbs. about half way between an Explorer and an Expedition.
I have Ody 00 with Firestone Affinity Touring S+M (Snow and Mud) tires. While driving on a snow covered street (but not icy) I found that the van definitely does not behave well: slow braking, skidding if turning.
Did anyone have the same experience?
I drove another minivan a lot - Nissan Multi with
cheap winter tires - and I never had this kind
of problems.
TIA