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If I can't trust CR who can I trust? So far my 02
CRV has been typical Honda reliable but boring.
I could have had a more excitng Escape for the same money but I thought the CRV was more
comfortable and the 200 hp of the Escape would just get me in trouble.The one thing I loved about
the Escape was an optional sound system that could simulate different settings.It was killer.
I felt like a traitor not getting the Escape since my son is a new car prep tech for Ford.
And, not just one, 4 of them. Production is catching up with demand. Ford is known for having the capacity to produce mass amounts of vehicles for the market demand.
Recalls - Once again did you look at all the data? You are being awfully bias when quoting data. ALL the recalls are within the first 4-6 months of production of the Escape/Trib, AND only affected certian build dates/lots on top of that.. NOT EVERY Escape/Trib was affected by these recalls. The media had a hayday with these.. I wonder why the CRV recalls have not made headlines???
He must spend a good portion of every day searching boards and arguing his point of view.
His is an extreme case of a condition most of us get after buying a vehicle. Not sure what to call it, but after researching and finally choosing a car/truck, there's a subconscious desire to justify yourself. So you look at the world through a different lens than others who are doing the same thing with whatever vehicle they bought.
Suddenly, you think 0.5 seconds in a 0-60 test is very important and worth defending. Or you start thinking the media are conspiring against the reputation of your vehicle.
Carry on scape2. Your work has just begun.
Scape2 - The recalls for the Escape were front page material because of the number of recalls and the sort amount of time. To give you an example, here's how I took them in...
1st recall - Well, no surprize there. No biggie.
2nd - Hmmm... looks like another Focus (which had three). Good for Ford, though. At least they aren't trying to hide the problems.
3rd - This is starting to look bad. Still, it's a good thing that Ford is being agressive about fixing these things.
4th - Okay, this definately bad. It's starting to look like "Quality is Joke #1".
5th - Is there anything on this car that works?
It seemed like everyday Ford was issuing a new recall. Add to that, the fact that Ford was still going through Firestone Wars at the time. It was a feeding frenzy for the press. All they had to do was write, "Ford", on the cover and they could sell newspapers.
The '02 CR-V has had one recall. So people are still in the "Well, no surprize there" frame of mind. If the CR-V ends up having four more recalls, then I'm sure the press will be just as eager to point them out.
Which brings me to the next curiousity. It is true that the Escape has not been recalled in recent months. But owners are still reporting frequent and consistent problems. Stalling would be the most obvious example. Have the problems gone away, or has Ford realized that publishing their dirty laundry is a mistake? Are they trying to keep a lid on them now? Should there be more recalls?
Those are questions we cannot answer. We simply don't have the data. But it's enough that I would question purchasing an Escape.
There are some plus' to the Escape also, it's abiltiy to tow is one and the option of a V6 is another. I think that if you are looking at either of these for real SUV options you are looking at the wrong vehicles. Pontiac's Aztek, Saturn's Vue, Toyota's Highlander, Hyundai Santa Fe, or Buick Rendevous are comparable to both of these cost and option wise and at the same time will give you more cargo room, more payload, and towing. Plus mileage and configuration is very similiar. Oh well enough said for now....
GM, no way is a V6 Highlander or a V6 Rendevous in the same price range as a mini-ute..
I agree, test drive them all and choose what suits your lifestyle..
You know: going through the manual finding all the neat things about the vehicle, comparing it to others and deciding over and over that you made the right decision.
That you are the poster child for this phenomenon is evident by your enthusiasm for your escape.
Now that is a little more money, but I don't think it's enough to take them out of contention.
If you really want to get down and dirty price the Rendevous with some of the Incentives offered for it and you might find it cheaper than the Escape.
I did my homework, I knew about all the recalls, but I also read the data about the recalls. The recalls do not affect all Tribs/Scapes and were only for certain build lots/dates. I bought a late 2001 model just for this reason. I guess you can say I am tired of a certian few bashing this vehicle when they know little about it.
I saw a posting that bothers me.There is a website
called ALLDATA where you can find out about recalls and TSB.Honda has requested that the information be blocked from the general public!
What are they hiding?
I also would like to see those that apply to fixes and repairs, but many are simply updates to their service practices, documentation, or company policies. Posting that sort of stuff can lead to problems when the average Joe misinterprets it.
The fact that Honda is hiding the TSBs ticks me off. They aren't doing this because "The average Joe misinterprets it." They want you to bring your car in and leave it up to them to tell you what the problem is. They don't want you doing any type of self diagnosis. When my wife's '99 Accord Coupe EX-V6 gets replaced. It won't be with another Honda unless they give me access to the TSBs. At 37000 miles I found the TSB for the replacement of the clunking transmission. If it hadn't been for me having access to these, I would have never known. The car was in for the clunking at 35k miles and they said it was normal. The TSB was dated about 6mo before they told me this. In other words they lied!!
That said, I like being able to browse the summaries myself.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
2.) Honda still makes a dependable vehicle but their quality is slipping. I have owned 3 new Honda's since 1990 and each one seems to have more problems than the previous.
3.) The CRV has no where near the power the escape v6 has. Like I said before, load it down and take it up a hill and you will see. If you think I'm full of it, test drive an escape under the same conditions and then the CRV.
In my case it did. I received a replacement transmission and the problem went away.
The point is, I should have access to the TSBs. It is my car and I shouldn't have to trust the service dept. There have been four other times I have found TSBs that the dealer didn't bother looking for. One was on a Nissan that the dealer had been trying to fix for 6mo. Meanwhile, there was the TSB describing a fix for the problem. It even had pictures of the fix!
One of the others was on a sunroof rattle on a '94 Civic EX coupe I owned.
The other two were on my '97 Dodge Ram SS/T.
I understand not every TSB applies to every vehicle. Some only relate to certain plants and/or VIN series. Still, if I am having a problem that the service dept. is having trouble fixing, they should look at any TSBs whose symptoms match my problem, whether they think it applies or not.
Unfortunetly they don't always take the time they should when it is a warranty repair.
You and I may understand the meaning of a TSB, but not everyone is a car wiz. Think about how dumb the average american is. Then think about the fact that "average" means that half of the population are even dumber.
V6 - Apparently Honda can surpass the Escape with two cylinders tied behind it's back. (Hey, as long as you're going to post inflamatory messages, I might as well join in the fun.) Here's another month where the CR-V beat the Escape (and every other V6 in this class). So, either you're wrong about the CR-V's four cylinder, or it doesn't matter. Take your pick.
Reliability - For 2001 models, Honda had 14 problems per 100 vehicles. The best domestic manufacturer had 22 problems per 100 vehicles. It wasn't Ford.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
If you had 100 people, 90 of whom had I.Q.s of 102 and 10 of whom had I.Q.s of 20, wouldn't the average I.Q. be 93.8? Leaving far more than half about average.
I realize the irony here if I'm wrong :-)
The good news is that half are above! :-)
tidester
Host
SUVs
Awesome. And definitely above average.
Common sense is not so common!I can see how ALLDATA information in the wrong hands can be a
royal pain in the butt for a service managers.
There is a similar service on the WEB for copiers/faxes/printers and it helps technicians.
"No matter what you say about the escape, the fact still remains that the CRV is plain on the outside borderline ugly. The inside is very odd. I think the engineers in Cali were smoking something when they came up with this design!"
You are intitled to your opinion but based on the sales figures for the last few months a LOT of people disagree with that "fact". I like the way the Escape looks, but I've grown to like my CR-V even more.
Although I have found many Honda people are blindly loyal. I have been one of those for years. I am starting to give other manuafacturers a chance.
Heck, I gave Dodge a chance when I bought my Ram (big mistake).
I figured I might as well give Ford a chance.
If I could, I would wait for the Honda Pilot. I saw it at the Denver Auto show. It looked pretty good inside and out.
so it follows that the cars should too.I have a
CRV but I like the manly look of the Land Rover
Freelander.To have the same equipment it costs a lot more though,and it's reliability is a ??BUT
then again the chances of having the only Landrover on the block is good,whereas there will
be lot's of CRVs around.When I had my Subaru outback I always had strangers ask about it.No
one has asked about my CRV.
I have one major gripe with the Escape's styling, but I have the same problem with the new CR-V. With the Escape, it's the faux bumper bullets on the front end. The oh-so-plastic-looking part of the bumper that extends up the front facade like tusks on a wart hog. Unfortunately, I see a similar problem with the CR-V's grill.
Overall, I think that the Tribute is the best looking one of the bunch.
New for 2003, Ford is going to offer a "Midnight" package for the Escape. Basically the vehicle will be all one color, no more plastic body moldings.
The CR-V -- smooth and not really distinguished, but friendly looking, functional. It does look a little minivan-ish. But it looks full-fleshed. Not skint like the Escape. Just my opinion, of course. That's all it could be. aesthetics is personal.
FWIW, I know that Honda lowered the center of gravity for the new vehicle. They used high-tensile, low weight steel for the upper portions of the frame. Whether it was enough to make a difference, I can't say.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Scape/Odds - We can't really compare US engineers to Japanese engineers since many of the Japanese are trained in US colleges. Conversely, the US industry has learned a huge amount from the applications of Japanese manufacturing technology. It's a global industry now.
That said, all we can look at are the results. For the CR-V vs Escape debate, we haven't got enough data. The CR-V hasn't been out long enough. There are sufficient first year bugs with the new CR-V to assume that it will not be attaining the top of the charts position that the last model dominated. In previous years, it ranked between 70-80% above the industry average.
However, we do know that the Escape/Tribute is ranked at the bottom of the small SUV pile at more than 40% below the industry average. In CR lingo, this is black dot territory.
So if we are comparing quality of engineering, I'd have to give the nod to the CR-V guys. Even if the CR-V earns an average rating, it's still head and shoulders above the Escape. Overall engineering (giving the customer what they want) is another gategory.
in Every category the Honda got Perfect scores.
now i Don;t own either of them but i have been a passenger in each of them, as friends of mine own both. I must admit the Escape has been in the shop for repairs more than 4 times. "so far"
As the Cr-v was in the shop once . they had to reset the computer. "false trouble codes" Also consider resale value of each.