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she wouldn't consider a 'v, rav, or forester.
esc has lots of features and good financing options. not a bargain pricewise, though.
1. The CR-V now has over 100,000 miles, and other than normal maintenance, one change of tires and brakes and a tune-up, there have been no unexpected service expenses. It drives today like the day we bought it - flawless!
2. The Escape was a great car until I passed the warranty period and hit the 45,000 mile mark when the following occured:
a. At 45,050 miles - $400+ on brakes without warning. No squeaking, etc. One moment all is ok, the next is grinding and a lit brake light. According to the service tech, he stated that almost every Escape comes in for a full brake job (including rotors) at around 40,000 to 50,000 miles.
b. At 50,025 miles - Suddenly without warning the car will not start. It will crank, but not turn-over. After 5 hours on the diagnostic and wire tracing, the problem is solved, along with another unexpected $400. According to the tow truck driver, he tows 3-5 Escape's per week with similar problems.
c. At 50,500 miles - The engine shuts down without warning, thus losing all power (fun trying to turn off the highway) - going into service again - third time within 8 weeks.
Based on our experience, the CR-V can't be beat. Also if mileage is a concern, the Escape has averaged about 19 mpg, and the CR-V about 26 mpg.
So was he driving a Chevy or a Dodge tow truck, and did the sticker on the back window have Calvin or Marvin the Martian peeing on the Ford logo?
Seriously though, sorry to hear about your problems, and honestly that's the first time I've heard of anything like that in over two years of reading these and other Escape forums.
My advise to you would be to try another dealer if you can. Some are better than others as I and a lot of other people around here can verify.
FWIW, my '99 CR-V EX has 91K on it and going strong. My one unscheduled service was for a distributor. I more or less killed it by getting too aggressive with the hose after an off-roading trip.
The Escape, in the past, was getting a bad rap for being "unreliable". Not mine, and not the thousands of others out on the net, some that are approaching 70-80K trouble free miles..
2005 Honda CR-V: Freshened, with possible hybrid model added to lineup.
Any truth to this?
Honda has announced their plans for a hybrid Accord later in 2004. Since they did not do the same with information about the CR-V, I think it's safe to assume there will not be a hybrid until the next redesign.
As for the used Escapes at 1/2 the original, I would like to see that. If I could find a 2003 Escape for $12k I would buy it. But, I and many here who post in this forum would have a hard time believing your claim. I hardly ever see any used Escapes on the lot, and most are gone in days. You sound like the guy who claimed to know a tow truck driver who towed 3-5 Escapes per week.
Post a link to a dealer selling these Escapes (used) for half price please!
Bluemalibu.. I hate to say it but you have been swept up in what I call the Honda hype of resale value. I went to trade my wifes 00 Accord in about 2 years ago and they would not give me or than 10,000 at a Honda dealer at that!! I paid just over 17K for the darn thing. So much for resale value... Get out on the net CRV's resale value is not as great as the dealership wanted you to believe, nor what Edmunds posts here..
scape2-- I sold my 94 Accord EX to a dealer for $4000 three weeks ago. I found that to be a very good price. Miles were not low, although it was immaculate, and no problems with anything on it, no accidents etc. I can't imagine why that dealer wouldn't give you a good price for that 2000 Accord. I hope you shopped around and did get a reasonable sale.
smsuvundecided - those are great prices on the CRV. It must be the area because not all places are willing to part with them for that price. I had to work to negotiate a similar price on my manual trans V.
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I did my homework using Edmunds, KBB, and Nadaguides websites and came up with a trade-in between 11K-12K and a selling price of a base Highlander of 21500K plus tax, tag & title. Identical Accords on autotrader.com are asking between 12700-13900. Over on Real World Trade-Ins Terry states I should expect 10-11K on a trade and I should be able to sell it myself for 11.5K-12.5K.
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We go to the closest Toyota dealer, who does have a bad rep. for high pressure sales tactics and not giving any deals, have never heard a good story from someone who bought there.
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We see a Highlander with no options with a sticker price in big numbers on the front for 21K. So we try it out and then try to work a deal. Even if they add some dealer fee, we'd have bought it.
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But they offer us $8500K for a trade in, my eyes bulge out and my blood pressure shoots up. I'm silent for a few seconds then regain my composure. He gives us a song and dance that even though Hondas and Toyotas are great, they still do depreciate. Then I show him a couple of his used cars where he's asking almost MSRP of a new car. I tried my best, but he wouldn't budge, so we leave, vowing NEVER to step foot in that dealership again.
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It boils down to resale value is only good if you can find a buyer and some dealerships are a royal pain. We're going to try out one or two other Toyota dealerships and if we can't get what we want, then we'll sell the Accord ourselves and buy something outright.
Anyway, the girl on the phone looks at their value for our 2003 EX and she says "Wow, you guys have some great value in that CR-V." "You owe $15,000 and we have it valued at $25000."
I BOUGHT it for $22,000 and it now has 19,000 miles on it (18,800 trouble free). Of course, I'd never find a buyer that'd give me that but, it's nice to know those educated in valuing vehicles agree with my feeling that Hondas can't be beat.
BTW USAA allows anyone to join their credit union to get those re-fi rates. Look into it if you have a higher rate. www.usaa.com
A new loaded 2004 EX with zero miles stickers for just a tad over $23k. How can your 2003 with 19,000 (18,800 trouble free) miles on it be worth almost $2k more?
Wait, lemmee check...
Yes! I have heard it all now!
Now all I have to do is wait for scape2s fine whine.
IT'S A CONSPIRACY...HONDA BIBLE...EXPLODING GLASS...
; )
http://www.intellichoice.com/best_value_2004/bovyTemplate1.cfm/te- - mplate/CompactUtility.cfm?CFID=202011&CFTOKEN=78E5BB0B-CCC9-7- - 5CC-01BA2273E7ACFD02
But I don't believe any of the consumer groups actually rank vehicles according to resale value. Residual value is another story. Residual value is pretty close to resale value, but still not quite the same. Here's the ALG site for that information (scroll down and click on the Compact SUV segment)
http://www.alg.com/news-information.asp?page=news_alg_rva
CR-V - 65% above the industry average.
RAV4 - 55%
Element - 50%
Forester - 30%
Liberty - 20%
Xterra - 19%
Sante Fe - 17%
Rodeo - 12%
Sorento - 12%
Wrangler - 0% (industry average)
Escape/Tribute - negative 5%
Tracker - neg 7%
Vitara/XL-7 - neg 7%
Aztek - neg 30%
Vue - neg 60%
Freelander - neg 148%
But Hondas do hold value. I had a 2002 Odyssey, which was MSRP at 28500 in September of 2001, and retail resale value of 25300 in August of 2003. That's only about $3000 in two years...
By the way, I did go to 3 Honda dealers and the highest trade in was about 9.5K! for a 2000 LX Accord! Same story of wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail. Also got a line of.. Because there are so many Accords out there now.. resale has come down!?
For instance.. an 04 Escape XLT V6 they say costs $22,714.. yet they are all over the paper costing under 20K. They also claim maintenance costs of over $5,500 over a 5 year period?, in the first year of ownership $716?
On my 01 Escape Edmunds claims over $1,552 in first year maintenance.. I paid no where near that in maintenace the first year. Maybe $200 for oil changes.. At the fifth year of ownership I am supposed to pay out over $6,000 dollars in maintenance?? on what? I am going to call it as I see it here Edmunds... explain these cost in more detail and let us know where you got these numbers...
Edmunds probably takes an averagein calculating TCO. Sounds like there have been some problems with the Escape, some folks probably paid considerably more than those figures.
About True Cost to Own
Steve, Host
CR-V - 32,370
Escape - 42,684
The whole article: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=08933785
You're upset about your bottom-of-the-line 00 LX Accord only fetching 9.5K? Why not look and see what an 00 Grand Prix, Intrepid, Malibu, Taurus or Sable would get you? LOL! If a dealer is offering 9.5K you could probably get, what? 10.5-11.5 on your own? How much did you buy it for 4 years ago? Gimme a break.
My mom traded in her 99 Catera in 2002, 50,000 miles, perfect condition, loaded bought for $32,000 trade in? $10,500.
Look at how poor a position you'd be in had you bought one of those vehicles. It's all relative.
Thank goodness it's almost time for you to cut your lawn.
As for the increase in sales of the new 4 banger model... amen. It only shows that having a *good* 4 cylinder is enough for many people.
Based upon what?
And the electronic 4 wheel drive? I guess Honda had that right too?
I think varmint informed us a little ways back that the CR-V's system isn't electronic. varmint?
I for one like the system we have in the '02 with the switch. I feel it adds to the whole driving experience when you have to think about what to do next. That's a big reason why I prefer manual transmissions.
"Based upon what?"
Do I really have to explain this?!!
It's a joke which pays reference to the old saying involving a part of the male anatomy. And that the new 2.3L in the Escape is bigger than the old models 2.0L.
As someone has said.. First you have to find someone willing to pay the inflated resale prices of Honda vehicles.. Not me, not anymore....
VTM-4, the system from the Pilot and MDX, is an electric system. In fact, it's a bit similar to the one in the new Escape. Except that VTM-4 can distribute power from side to side (as well as front to back), and it retains a lock mode for lower speeds.
Scape - Take a look at the hidden costs described in the links provided earlier. You have not owned the vehicle for 5 years, nor have you suffered the loss of depreciation (you haven't sold it or crashed it). But the value is still gone.
I didn't mean that the CR-V used an electronic system. I meant the Escape now uses an automatic system as does the CR-V.
Japanese cars better engineered and better built ... Its obvious to me you haven't been keeping up on the latest information about the build quality and reliability of American vehicles. Granted, they don't beat the Japanese, nor do they even match the Japanese, but they are not as far back as you may think. Go on over to MSN and look at their reliability reports of some American models, you will be surprised.
a honda dealer isn't going to give you much for a chevy. i suspect a chevy dealer would have given more for the malibu, and less for the accord.
i am not trying to dispute the fact that people will pay more for a used honda.
my wife is now driving a new '04 escape, just to stay 'ot'.