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That said, it would be nice if it were an option. This thing is more van than SUV.
-juice
The Element may fair a bit better, in that there is a bit more front and rear overhang.
Bob
Bob
What about a slide-out shelf that also tilted down as a ramp? Roll your bikes right up instead of lifting them.
To be honest, Honda doesn't have the same problem Toyota has with older demographics. Civic owners are 8 years younger than Corolla owners.
-juice
When they do... I bet they pick up (pun intended!) on the styling cues already established by the new Element. Specifically, I see them using the square wheel well cladding.
BTW, I've seen some early sketches of the Liberty (in the Liberty brochure) in which they also explored that same type of square wheel well cladding.
Bob
I think an Open Element, with some type of opening mid-gate, would hold them off until a pickup arrived. I think there is plenty of room in the market for a clever Crew Cab, and the Baja isn't quite there yet (too much cladding, no H6, no full functioning mid gate).
The Pilot platform is another possibility, but the powertrains may not be well suited for a pickup - Honda requires a power steering cooler and an engine oil cooler before they allow any towing whatsoever. Or at least those things would have to be standard on a pickup.
-juice
For a true pickup, Honda will also need to introduce low-gear option. It would help improve towing capabilities as well.
So Honda can now tip-toe into the truck market with the Element, which, I think, could down the road, be a harbinger of future Honda truck styling. The Element certainly gives Honda a "truck look," which could easily be expanded upon. Think of the Element as to what the original CRV is to the new and much larger Pilot; clearly the strong family resemblance is there.
Bob
If the Ody 240hp engine needs an oil cooler to tow, that engine doesn't belong in a pickup. The Duramax makes 215% of the torque of an Odyssey engine.
-juice
A (clean!) diesel and/or a gas/electric hybrid would also make sense, given Honda's commitment to the environment.
Bob
An Element with a pick-up bed would be pretty flimsy. Honda would have to do quite a bit of work to make the structure rigid enough. Same deal with the Ody/Pilot/MDX platform. I'm sure that's why we have the cross-member between the rear "moon roof" and the glass window over the tailgate. The Element needs that structural support.
If Subaru isn't offering the H6 in the Baja, it may be for the same reasons. They wouldn't want people to mistake to for a "real" pick-up. It's supposed to be a fun truck. The 4 cyl engine will keep away those buyers who expect to do heavy duty work with it.
GM is Subaru's biggest shareholder, so perhaps they held back the H6. I think it'll eventually get the H6.
I see the Crew Cab market as wide open. All are trucks except Baja, and that's only a 4 cylinder. It has the car-based crowd all to itself.
So that market would be easier to crack than the full-size pickup market. Honda just might try. Imagine an Element Crew Cab. I can.
-juice
Bob
Honda sits on the side lines, scopes out the market, measures the competition. Then they come out with what they think is the next big thing. Look at the Odyssey - it only arrived, and I mean successfully, 15 years after Chrysler did it.
I still don't know. Honda doesn't do body-on-frame any more. They have no appropriate engines, either. Toyota had plenty of trucks before the Tundra arrived.
-juice
In any case, they've certainly planted the seed with the new Element...
Bob
-juice
I'm also betting that the only reason why the Element got voted into production is the fact that it's based on an existing platform. A truck could not be. That means new manufacturing equipment and a dedicated line. That gets expensive. It's not an image car, like the S2K and NSX. Justifying those costs on a mass production scale would be difficult.
Bob
I was hoping they would import Stream, but they had to SUVize it for the NA market. Honda did a lot of work to keep the floor low and this will really help the utility of this vehicle.
Maybe not - Element will be more profitable and will helps with the CAFE average of extremely profitable Odysseys and Pilots.
-juice
Bob
There's even another Accord derived wagon, I forget the name.
-juice
Juice, there is an Accord wagon too, but offered with a choice of 2.3 liter I-4 SOHC (150 HP/152 lb.-ft, same as American Accord) and 2.3 liter I-4 DOHC (200 HP/165 lb.-ft), with or without AWD.
Avancier
Accord Wagon
Maybe the next gen Accord will get a variant like that. But maybe not - Honda probably makes more profit from selling CR-Vs and Pilots.
-juice
Bob
-juice
I hope you are right about the 107" wheelbase from the Stream applied to Element.
This may explain why Element looks good (proportionally correct) even with the large 17" wheels and tires.
http://www.honda.co.jp/factbook/auto/stream/200010/20.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/bcovthu.htm
Maybe so, but Honda can do no worse than the original 1983 (?) Prelude. Remember that forgettable car? Went on to become an outstanding coupe renowned for excellent handling and an overachieving four cylinder motor.....til its demise last year.
The beauty of a utilitarian vehicle is that, when all is said and done, you still have a functional vehicle.
Furthermore, while the Aztec is functional, it is not particularly attractive.
The Element is.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. The Element is attractive, in a quirky sort of way.
Aztec took a minivan and removed utility. Element is full of utility. They are polar opposites.
-juice
We've actively started car shopping for my wife. Her 626 is officially up for sale.
I'm waiting to see the 2003 Forester, and I'd like to drive an Element, too. She also wants to sample Camry, Altima and Legacy sedans.
I like the CR-V, but a couple of details make me like the Element more - the lift gate, those rims, and the styling. Not to mention the price. A local no-haggle dealer has EXs for $22,800, while the Element is supposed to top out at $21k. And I hate the fact that you can't get an LX with ABS.
We require 5 speed manual, ABS, cruise, PS/PW/PL, A/C and keyless. Not mandatory but highly desirable are AWD, alloys, moonroof, heated seats, CD, and leather. Any suggestions?
-juice
December
I think the 5spd awd will be a winner in price, utility, and fun to drive quotient. Kinda like a "rally van".
Bummer, I think it would be cool to own something that turns heads like that.
-juice
Regrets.
Official Honda info and College Hills Honda site mention this. Think this is part of their quarterly release plan. Civic IMA in March; Pilot in June; 03 Accord in Sep (?), and Element in Dec.
-juice
However, the same applies to the Pilot. My spy article is based on seeing one in a dealer's lot and Honda didn't release any specs until yesterday. I'll never understand marketing...
also, will the element have power doors and locks? what about colors? navigation system?
As for colors, I'm really hoping that it comes in a monochromatic scheme. I'm too conservative for the 2-color theme that they have going on.