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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
BTW, I was a major factor in us getting a Chrysler van in the first place. I've been a MOPAR fan since I can remember and have always valued the flexibility and cargo capacity of vans. You can ask my parents and they will tell you I was the main reason why they ended up with TWO Chrysler vans as opposed to vans from Ford, Honda, or whoever else.
No, my dad does not work for DaimlerChrysler.
As for tires, edmunds seems to think the traction of the Michellin tires (not used on rental cars) on the 2001 and 2002 Town & Country is much better than what is offered on the Odyssey. Also, notice edmunds described the 3.8 engine in the T&C has "refined" and said it performed just as well and sometimes even better than the more advanced engines offered in some of the competition.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't think your comparison is very fair nor accurate. Would it be fair to compare a 2002 Town & Country Limited AWD to a 2001 or 1998 Odyssey LX? I don't think so. But I too am glad you are happy with your new van.
-Adam
Thanks for your comments. The rental is indeed the longer Grand Caravan. It has all the power options, but does have the smaller 3.3 liter engine. My 98' had the 3.3 as well. I agree with Adam that the 3.8 liter in Dodge/Chryslers is a more competitive engine than the 3.3. I also don't know if the T&C is better than a GC. Isn't it just a more luxurious van than the Dodge, but has the same engines, drive trains and suspension? Also the body parts are the same except the grill, tail lights etc? I also don't know what they exactly changed on the 02' from the 98' Caravans, but it appeared to me as just cosmetic. I got rid of the 98' back in 6/99 for the Maxima, so it's been a long time since I had it. I just wasn't really that impressed with it. The Maxima impresses me as does this Odyssey. Also, I'd like to mention that an EX Odyssey lists for 27,190. Most GC's that list for this or less aren't fully equipped w/ power doors, bigger 3.8 engines (most have the 3.3), etc. Actually the Honda only comes as an LX or EX. You can get the EX w/ leather, leather and DVD, or leather and NAV. All the little options like power windows/seats/doors, side air bags, 4 whl anti-lock brakes, the seating, etc are all EX standards. The Dodge definitely offers more options to those shopping for what they want(I had no choice on the power doors, or any of the options). Also, If you just want a van for the cargo space, but don't want to spend an arm and a leg, the Honda is not the answer. The LX is @25k. You can get a Voyager for what? under 18k. My comparison is really the rental vs my Honda. I just mentioned the 98' DC to point out that I've owned and driven a DC for 18 months. As for the tires, the rental has Good Years on it. Is this the standard tire on DC and T&C? My manager has a new Chrysler and he too said the tires have bad traction and is going to replace them even though they are brand new. The Honda has Michelins, but I am a huge fan of Dunlops.
Tony
That's what you gotta love about this country. The FREEDOM to choose. God forbid everybody had to drive the same car. And can you imagine what Honda, Ford, Dodge, etc would charge for their vehicles if they had no competition? When I first went to Enterprise for the rental, they offered me a Chevy (GEO) metro. I would rather walk than drive in that death trap. But people buy these cars, love them and would buy them again. There is a car/van/truck out there for everyone. They make their choice for their OWN reasons, not b/c someone told them.
P.S. Don't always believe what you read either. For enough money, a magazine will print and say anything. I'm sure everyone on this board can find an article that says the Honda is better, the Dodge is better, the Ford is better, ...You get the picture.
-Tony
If you really like reading that the Dodge/Chrysler vans are better than the Odyssey, check out Heraud's reviews at MSN Carpoint. I find his reviews laughable and biased with no basis for comparison (totally subjective with no benchmark data). You'll probably enjoy them.
Bdaddy, I've read Heraud's review of both the Odyssey and DC minivans. He rated the DC minivans 72 percent and the Ody 68 percent. That's pretty close. In his defense, the winner of these comparisons and reviews depends on the criteria that was used in rating them. Heraud seems to be more interested in performance and drive more than anything else. That is why I think the DC minivans got a slight edge over the Odyssey. Even edmunds (who I think always shows bias in every van review they publish) described the Town & Country as "a driver's minivan." They rated its engine, transmission, handling, braking, tires, ect the same or higher than the 2001 Odyssey.
My point is, each reviewer looks for different things when evaluating a vehicle. That's why carpoint offers several reviews of any particular car by different people who all have different expectations for the car they are evaluating.
Edmunds slammed the Town & Country repeatedly saying it was over priced and too expensive when it was covered in leather (an option Honda didn't have until just this year) and many other features not found on the competition. If price was an issue, they shouldn't have compared a 35k dollar luxury van with all the bells and whistles to a spartan box like the 2001 Ody was, in comparison.
-Adam
BTW if I had to pick one minivan that has been called "boring, boxy and dull" in TH forums, it is the Odyssey.
In keeping within this topic, since I owned a 96 DC and now drive a 99 Odyssey, I have to say that I still miss the Infinity Stereo most of all the features. The Honda stereo is severely lacking in comparison.
The DC had the windshield wiper heaters, a true delay feature on the rear window wiper, and better roof rack. With the exception of the Infinity sound system, I do not consider these extra features, just better executed on the DC than on the Honda.
I firmly belive that competition between all the manufacturers improves the product.
BTW space on TH is free. You might want to consider that and use some articles, adjectives, adverbs and complete sentences. Just my $.02
Chrysler vans were ranked #2 in initial quality according to JD Powers. I doubt the Odyssey was #1.
As for engine and transmission performance, it too has improved with the latest generation of Chrysler vans. You don't believe me? Just ask edmunds who said the Town & Country's 3.8 12V OHV performed just as well if not better than many of the competition's more advanced engines. Both the 2.4, 3.3, and 3.8 engines were overhauled for 2001 and now give better performance and are cleaner running, not to mention they were all refined to deliver much smoother acceleration.
In addition, every year Chrysler improves the reliability AND performance of their 41TE transmission. The 4-speed that is in our 2001 PT Cruiser is the same unit that is used in our 2000 Town & Country, but is MUCH, MUCH smoother and efficient. All of those improvements were made in only a year's time. And I'm confident the performance and reliability of a 2002 41TE would be even greater than that of the unit used in our 2001 Cruiser.
Ody01, you only have 13,000 miles on your Odyssey. And yes, Honda did have a problem with the transmissions in the earlier 1999 and 2000 Odyssey vans. It is nowhere near as large in scale as the one Chrysler had with it's vans, but its still a problem. Unless, of course, you can honestly tell me Honda quality has declined THAT much.
-Adam
41K miles on 00 T&C NO PROBLEMS
There were some bad components from a supplier that caused some initial problems with the Odyssey ( and I think Accord) transmissions. Honda replaced them under warranty. Honda does stand behind their product.
Judging by that statement alone, I can surmise that you have no clue what you are talking about.
The fact is that my replacement 41TE trans performs no better than the original and I would warn anyone contemplating purchase of a DC van to expect early failure of trans. Notwithstanding the 7/70 warranty, you will also have to convince the dealer if there is anything wrong with it short of total failure.
I would also advise anyone not to purchase until DC puts Gen 4 seatbelt buckles in ALL seating positions, not just the front row.
That would explain why the shift quality of our 2000 Town & Country is much better than that of our 1998 Grand Caravan 3.3 or how we have gone through two DC vans with no problems whatsoever. Or how my friend has 65k miles on his 2000 Town & Country Limited with no serious problems.
Chrysler has sold 9 million minivans. I'm sure only a fraction of that number have experienced serious problems with their vans. I'd love for you drive a 96 T&C and tell me it gave the same performance as a new 02. If you said yes, I'd call you a liar.
-Adam
Steve
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I owned a 96. I traded it in at a significant loss with 72k miles on it for a Honda Odyssey. I now have 58K trouble free miles and it drives just like new.
It appears that Honda has really stepped up the pressure on the DC minivans by increasing the horsepower to 240 and correcting a few deficiencies form the previous model years. Does anyone know what DC has planned for their minivans in say a year or two from now? If I were buying today it definitely would be either a Honda Odyssey or Mazda MPV.
4aodge: Relax, man. After reading the past 40 posts, it seems as soon as someone gives you hard facts to demonstrate that Honda is equal to or better in certain category, you resort to subjective, baseless comments. I think it's clear you are a DC man but you also have to see that DC reliability is not up to snuff with Honda. This is why they are losing their market share on minivans each year. Too many people have had trannies fail on previous minivans and are looking for alternate choices. This is also reflected in their car sales as well which have gone down hill in recent years. And all that talk about corporate restructuring to improve quality...this is not something you will see in 1 or 2 model years. This takes time. Ford is doing the exact same thing. Parts have already been ordered from supliers and the assembly lines are set. My point is just because they announce they are doing this great initiative to improve quality and reliability (actually this is an admission that they are having problems) doesn't mean I will run out and buy one of their products. Instead I'll sit back and wait and see if in fact the products do improve. Plus if there is a product that is superior to it, I'll just buy that one instead. Too many choices to sit back and wait for one company.
Debate is good as long as all parties are open minded and willing to contribute positively to the converstation.
dtownfb, you need to read my post a little harder. Chrysler reliability has improved significantly over the last few years, which is a fact. You can challenge and even deny it all you'd like, but it's a fact. No, Chrysler reliability is still not what Honda's is, and I doubt it ever will be. But Odyssey reliability is also not characteristic of most Honda cars. Go read about power door failures, rattles, squeaks, transmission failures, leaks, and a few recalls in between here at Edmunds.
As for Chrysler sales, they are still selling more than anyone else by a huge margin. Chrysler sells about 30k more vans each month than Honda does. Sure, their sales have declined gradually over the last few years because of increased competition, but what would you expect? Seven years ago the only van worth buying was a Chrysler, now you have about five or six worthy alternatives. The fact Chrysler sales have gradually decreased over the last few years says nothing negative about them, especially in a market with such intense competition from Honda, Toyota, and Ford. I think its amazing they sill sell so many vans with that kind of of competition.
In fact, Chryslers minivan sales are up about 2k units in April 2002 versus April 2001.
dmathews, I probably hate Ford even more than you do. In my opinion, it is the worst of the Big Three. But I wouldn't be so quick to bash someone driving a Ford if my ride was a 01 Odyssey. I think just about any Ford would be more exciting to drive than a Ody, even my grandma's 1994 Escort wagon...
If you don't believe Chrysler has improved quality of the last few years, check this link...
http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0205/31/b01-502833.htm
To see for yourself how many more vans Chrysler sells than Ford or Honda, check out this site...
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolva.asp
-Adam
Which study is that?
We will assume you don't mean the new JD Power Initial Quality survey, which is a study of initial defects on brand new, MY 2002 cars. If you are actually interested in long-term reliability, then you might look at Consumer Reports or the JD Power Vehicle Dependability survey instead. Incidentally, both JD Power and CR use surveys of actual vehicle owners, though CR polls only its readers and JD Power is presumably a random sampling from all registered owners.
BUT...5 year/60,000 mile limited basic warranty.
Toyota reliability now in toilet. Read sludge problem many 3.0L V6 engines Sienna, Carmy, Avalon
Honda best reliability but read Chrysler great improvement.
"The thing I like about the spare in the inside center well is have you ever tried to take out the spare from under a vehicle in a snow storm. The ice and snow are awful. Even in the rain with your good clothes on, the mud and dirt caked on it from traveling under the van. The Honda spare is nice and clean and DRY. I believe the DC vans can be had with a full size spare but not sure. At least one of the minis do."
Well, I have to admit it's been a while since I last changed a flat, but when I did it was one of those thin temporary things that had a very limited range, 150 to 200 miles and a 50 MPH limit. The ride was terrible and then I got the priviledge of putting the fixed one back on again. (OK I'm cheap). The full sized spare allows highway speeds and a smooth ride. I have had the optional full sized spare under the rear of my DC minivan thru 6 winters in the Chicago area and only lower it to check the tire pressure before taking a trip. It is not dirty and mud covered. The Odyssey mini spare may be clean but the dirty muddy Oddy flat gets to ride inside your clean van because it won't fit in the well the mini spare came from.
True but they give you a special bag to put it in and besides having been through a flat it fits inside the huge well behind the 3rd seat with room for a couple more.
Dmatt and I were just giving Adam a hard time and he'll do the same to us first chance he gets.
Incidentally, I never stated the JDP Dependability survey was valid for the current model Odyssey; it is indeed for 5-year old vehicles. Similarly, the IQ survey has about the same validity for measuring long term reliability. It is for the most recent model year only.The newly released survey is for owners of MY2002 vehicles after only 90 days of ownership. As such, it reports mostly manufacturing defects; problems with assembly and early-life failures. Like most products, vehicles have a higher incidence of problems when they are brand new, and then it again increases later in life. The idea is to get a measurement of the initial failures early in life, and then also measure the long-term failures later in life. The two types of failures are not necessarily dependent on each other.
Personally, if I was going to buy any survey to get a predictor of long-term reliability, I'd go with Consumer Reports. Despite their flaws, at least their reliability projections are based on the most recent years of the current generation of vehicle, and not just the first 90 days of the current model year. Your mileage may vary.
Once again 4adodge, speculation on your part. You've never driven an Odyssey so how can you describe the driving experience? As I recall, your list of vehicles that you have driven consists of: your folks DC minivan, their Neon - I mean PT Cruiser, and your Gmas' Escort Wagon. Do test results mean nothing to you when reviewers describe the Odyssey's ride and handeling as "sporty" and "spirited"? I suggest you drive one before you make comments based on what you think the van drives like. Unless of course, you're afraid you might actually like the van more than your DC:-)