I almost forgot...be aware of the statute of limitations in NH for bodily injury cases, since the wreck was Nov 2004...in GA, it is 2 years, so a claim here must be settled (or suit filed) in 2 years, or Nov 2006...some states have 1 year statutes (rare) and some states are 3 years, many are 2 years...
If your case is solid, the insurance will not want to run up against the expiration of the statute...if your case is weak, YOU will not want to run up against the expiration because then you are the one on defense...
Also, make your demand, stand your ground up to a point, but do NOT be greedy...you are entitled to compensation, but do not expect to be a millionaire off this case...
I am amused when folks come in with simple neck and back pain, have $1500 in chiro bills, and they tell me they expect $10 grand in their pocket after fees and expenses...I gently "escort" them to the door, tell them to expect about $1000 in their pocket, and come back to me when the hallucinatory drugs wear off...meanwhile, take this crap to the lawyer down the street, as I am amazed what folks think their case is worth and what will make them "happy"...
I could have spent days (weeks?) trying to find the exact info you provided in minutes and I understand it all perfectly! And thankfully, I never mentioned MedPay to Geico, but they do know I've used my health insurance. This shouldn't matter because they (Geico) have been receiving the same subrogation letters I have so Geico is fully aware that my health insurance expects to be paid back, but that subrogation paperwork includes both the full charge and what Geico paid so I'll have to do some work around that.
If you don't mind an additional question, I have one more about calculating my initial demand. The accident was unfortunate because I was turned (body and neck) at more than a 45 degree angle checking for oncoming traffic while trying to merge when the woman hit my stopped car. The angle of my body/neck and lack of any support to either made the injury, in my opinion, quite significant (but no, there were no visible injuries so I'm stuck with "whiplash" as a diagnosis). Oh, and I have ZERO history of any neck or back pain. And the woman fully admitted liability...she just "didn't see me" but did see me "fly forward in my seat" from the impact.
Anyway, I've seen my PCP a few times and had Physiatry, Chiro (never been to one before and only a bit of help) and PT (finally, relief) as well as expensive drugs and patches over more than 18 months. The physiatrist's final report states that I will only achieve a 90% (95% if I am lucky) recovery from these injuries. I've calculated the original (non-negotiated) cost of these services and I am at $9500!! I almost fell over! Then 95 hours of lost work over a few months (not appts, straight sick/vaca time due to pain) comes to $3000. The entire situation is aggravated by the fact that my husband and I were planning to, how do I put this, start the process of having a baby after the holidays (so early 2005). That has been put totally on hold due to the physical limitation, medication and pain (documented by my PCP but unfortunately not by the chiro, even though he specifically told me to wait). I am just now able to start thinking about it again and I am 35 so that clock is ticking!
I don't want to be dramatic, and I don't want to be greedy, but I'm concerned that I will get the following from an adjuster: there was little damage to your car, why are your expenses so high, we don't think highly of chiro care, your records are up and down (feeling better, then suffering a setback, then feeling better, then suffering a setback). I'm an honest person. I'm educated, intelligent, great job at a respected company, no reasons to exaggerate a claim to get a few grand. I would forego all money to have my life back 100% and no back/neck pain, but that isn't going to happen. So when I go to calculate that initial demand, and if I were in an adjuster's shoes looking at a "whiplash" claim with these figures, I would be skeptical. If I assume the multiplier is 4, I come to $41,000 (9500x4 + 3000). I mean, I certainly feel like I'm entitled to compensation, but realistically, is an adjuster going to look at that number and laugh? What would you consider a reasonable initial demand and, just an opinion please, what would be the minimum you would settle for if you were in my situation?
And I'm sorry, I've never been able to write anything in fewer than 20 sentences!!
My first problem is that I do not understand how one "starts" the process of having a baby, but I guess that means if the first attempt does not work, you may be "forced" to try over and over again...is that considered punishment...for you???...for him???...:):):):)
LIke all cases, you have plusses and minuses...low damage to the car is a big minus (juries often do not believe people have been injured from "fender benders" until THEY have one, and then they expect the million dollar settlement), going to a chiro is not a minus, as chiros are recognized to usually help auto accident victims, often much more than MDs and their mind-altering drugs...
The at-fault driver's comment of flying forward from the impact will be helpful if she will repeat it or the officer put it in the police report...if she will not repeat it and it is not written, it does you no help...
The chiro was wise not to state anything in the record about delaying your pregnancy, as it is outside the scope of practice for them to make any "medical" recommendations, despite the fact that common sense says that while you are recovering from trauma, it is wise not to get pregnant...do not fault the DC for that...
It is OK that Geico is aware only of your health ins subrogation, so that way they "know" that your bills still have to be paid (whether to the doctors or group health, the bills still have to be "paid"...now is the time to file medpay for the bills to be repaid while the letters still tell Geico that they have not been paid back yet)
$9500...it is what it is...assuming no fraud, that is what it took to treat you...when you negotiate with geico, argue that your bills must be paid and you are entitled to pain and suffering due to this lady's negligence and carelessness when she drove her car...I would demand the $41,000 and see what they say...
Rest assured they will sound shocked at such a ridiculous request...he,he,he...as tho no one has ever demanded that much in the history of Geico...:):):)...they will then counter offer, which is their first offer, usually ridiclously low, but still, it tells you where your FLOOR is...then, you call them back in a few days and drop from 41K to, say, 33K...they will then come up, but not as much as you went down...remember, they have the $$$ and you do not...yet...:):):)...
Then you can probably come down from 33K to maybe, 27K, assuming they have not come up to 27K yet...these numbers are approximate as you might expect...
Also remember, you have flexibility that they do not know, because you are arguing as tho you have to pay back the extra $$$ to health ins, but you know that medpay should take care of it, but they do not know it...:):):)
At some point, you may be only 3-6 thousand apart...that is when I offer to split the difference with them (and know what that number is so you can say, OK, you offered 27K and I want 33K, lets split the difference at $30K and settle this)...they will usually come back and say, sounds good but I can only go to $28,500 (remember, every dollar they save for the insurance counts to their Xmas bonus)...
you can then think about it for 2-3 days, and tell them you will call them back...
Call back in 2-3 days, tell them that 28,500 just isn't adequate and you want the $30K...they will either come up to, say, 29K or hold firm...it is your choice now as to accept or not...it might then be time to accept...AFTER the negotiations are over, you should then demand that all the $$$ be sent to you, and that you will see that group is reimbursed and subrogated...you may wish to then reveal that medpay will repay group and the $$$ should be sent to you anyway...they are used to this as it is quite standard in this business
One last thought...when they say "I will make you an offer" or "I will make you another offer", it usually means that there is more $$ to be had...when they say "this is my final offer" or "this is my offer for full and final settlement" it usually means that they are at their full authority and there ain't no more $$$ to be offered, i.e. this is the full value of your case in their opinion...it is your judgment as to whether to settle or not, but unless you intend to sue, you should probably accept their "final offer"...
yes, well, the "starting the process of having a baby" was my best attempt at retaining a G-rating!
I hear what you are saying about the minus being my car damage. I was such a cynic before this accident and I will never be again...for the most part because we all know fraud does happen. Now that it's me, I recognize that just because she didn't crush my entire trunk doesn't mean I wasn't hit hard, it only means Mazda knows how to make a solid car.
And I'm glad to hear your opinion of chiropractic care after reading in one book that adjusters will discount it. I've never seen one before and it initially seemed like voodoo medicine to me (is the cynic rearing it's ugly head again?). He did help to some degree. I had a nurse practitioner diagnose me with carpal tunnel a few months after the accident because I had shooting pain from my armpit to two fingers. That same day the chiro told me it was due to the neck trauma, did an adjustment two days in a row and the pain was virtually gone and hasn't returned. I type ALL DAY at work and there has been no recurrence so carpal tunnel it was not and I fully believe the chiro work fixed the problem. PT as prescribed by the Physiatrist was much more effective for the back/neck though and that's where most of the costs come from...$5K to be exact. I was shocked by their charges.
I just hate the idea of negotiating anything, but I guess I will start with the $41K figure and see what they do. I have a book on negotiating that is very much in line with what you say above, although your answer is more tailored to me and not just a generic case study.
I'll certainly let you know how it turns out. I can't thank you enough for your comments!
Marsha7 (aka Bob), I too have learned so much from your posts.... You are the "Terry" of the insurance/settlement/lawyer bid-ness.
Because of the info I've been reading from your posts... I educated a friend of mine who bought a friends Acura. He thought that there was no rush in changing the title over because his friend (female) said, "drive the car, don't worry about settling right away". She thought as he did that if he was in an accident, he would just claim it on his own insurance.
Well, from what I learned from you ..... is when you let someone "borrow" your car, they BORROW your insurance too. When my friend called his agent, he said exactly the same thing. The car deal was done pronto just because of the insurance situation.
Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
I was driving a friend's car once and scraped the passenger side on a horrible beat up (way too) wide truck parked on my narrow street. I tried to get my insurance to pay for it and they would not - go through the owner's insurance, they said.
Well, I can't do that, this thing I'm responsible for shouldn't affect her rates!!
So I paid for it out of pocket. Expensive lesson, believe me. :sick:
And I agree with you - Bob/marsha7 is a tremendously helpful Forums member. He spends a lot of time helping people just because he wants to. Good on you, Bob, and thanks very much!!
I'm just tryin' to earn my keep so y'all won't throw me out of the forum...but thanks for the kind words...
smoochy: chiropractic is an interesting profession...I summarize it this way...for what it is good at, there is often nothing better...for what it has no business doing, it has no business doing...this is not doublespeak...for neck and back pain, headaches, dizziness, arm/leg numbness, carpal tunnel of unknown origin, spinal adjusting can do wonders...this also assumes that the above-mentioned problems do not have ORGANIC origins like ruptured disc, fracture, brain tumor, etc...but when someone is suffering badly, and the all the MD testing is negative, or all they can say is pinched nerve or pulled muscle, I will often reco a chiro for the accident case and they almost always get good results, but they must allow sufficient time, often 3-8 weeks of care, depending on severity of problems...naturally, they have no business treating diabetes, cancer and many organic problems, but most auto injuries are musculoskeletal in nature, simply because the impact can dislodge/twist spinal bones, pull and tear muscles/ligaments/tendons and cause resulting pain and spasm...
The reason orthopedic surgeons can't stand chiropractors is because many of their recommended lower back surgeries are magically "unnecessary" after 2-3 months of chiro care...and the cost of the chiro pales in comparison to what the surgery costs, and too many surgeries still fail, but the surgeon never fails to be paid...MDs hate competition, and for musculoskeletal injuries chiros are worthy competition...
As far as negotiating, since you are handling your case w/o an attorney, you must be prepared mentally for the negotiation process...as much as I hate to admit it, I would venture that much of our business is because most folks hate the negotiation process, and for some reason, attorneys seem to thrive on the adversarial process and we love to threaten to clog the courts and sue people...:):):):):)...take that comment with tongue in cheek...
You have also run into another problem and you summarized it well...in my heart I really believe that folks can be injured in minor fender benders...not paralyzed or killed mind you, but can suffer symptoms of pain and spasm that does not "go away in 3 days" like every ER in the country will tell you (damn stupid MDs again)...but juries are rather stingy here in GA, often awarding $$$ less than the medical bills, yes you read that right, because they feel that these are nuisance cases...until THEY get injured, if you catch my drift...
I believe this because in 1989 I was rear-ended in my new 1988 Legend while sitting at a dead stop...only pushed me forward about 2 feet, literally broke the red plastic on my trunk lid, about $100 of damage, hardly anything to even consider...by the next morning, I had a splitting migraine headache which I never had before, and it was recurrent for close to 8 weeks...went to chiro 3 times weekly for 10 weeks, felt immediate relief of headache after spinal adjustment, just took many adjustments until headache did not return...worked for me...did not want to take usual drugs that cloud the brain and make you sleepy or unable to drive...for those who want the drugs, OK with me as I don't care, but I always tell my clients about chiro and let them make up their own mind...
mark156...thanks for the kind words, but who/what is "Terry?"...
Bob (real name) / marsha7 (user named after my wife)
Terry, aka rroyce10, is one of the more knowledgeable folks in the car biz on these boards, great sense of humor, and tells it like it is. He hasn't been around in about a month though.
Bob, I thought you would know who he was. He is the guru on the "Real World Trade-In Value" thread. He hits trade-in/private party values just about 100% every time! Helped me a couple of times and it was greatly appreciated.
I had a "small" injury after being re-ended. About two years ago I was driving my 2000 Mercedes E430 sport. I was stopped at a light and as it turned green (I think my foot was still on the brake) I was rear-ended by a late model Ford Ranger truck. He hit me just as square as a car can be hit. He hit my bumper and when the plastic squeezed in, it pushed up the trunk lid up slightly. The repair was $1,800. Not bad really but since the trunk lid had to be painted, it is just a tinge darker which bothers me. I don't think most people would notice. I only have 33,000 miles on the car and will keep it for a while longer as it has been excellent and trust worthy.
Back to my small injury.... That guy hit me so hard in the rear that my head slammed into the headrest. Thank goodness I was sitting square in my seat with both hands on the steering wheel. My head hit the headrest so hard I was dazed for a moment. I actually felt dizzy the whole time (1.5 hours) before the traffic enforcement police arrived to give the guy a ticket. He got an additional ticket for not being able to prove he had insurance. In the end, he did have it and his insurance company covered my car repair. :sick:
You could hardly see the damage on my vehicle because the bumper worked as it should, taking all of the impact. But my head hurt and luckily I haven't had any problems since the accident.
Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
I'm almost embarrassed to ask yet another question, but here goes anyway. Is it possible to ask what the at-fault person's coverage limits are for bodily injury? I think in NH you have to have a min of $25K (I think that's what I have and I'll tell you, this whole experience has convinced me to call my insurance company and re-evaluate all of my coverages!). If I knew the other person's max was $25K, it would make my job a little easier knowing that the adjuster won't want to settle a claim for the max amount of the coverage (I would think they would try to shave a bit off that just to save face...does that continue to make me a cynic? I need to work on that). Anyway, I guess my question is, do I have a right to ask Geico what their ensured's coverage is and to they have a duty to tell me? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I thought I would ask just in case.
Marsha7, I hope you didn't think I was implying that chiro care is not valid care. I was just saying that my uneducated perception when I was referred to one was to be skeptical. One chiro certainly helped with my hand issue, but was also too aggressive. I've since heard that others take a gentler approach so maybe it was just a matter of the wrong treatment for me. I will say that some folks around here definately give you the "yeah right" look when you put whiplash and chiropractor in the same sentence. Until, as you said, it happens to them!!
You also hit the nail on the head about the crazy amount of drugs most doctors want to give you to magically make very bad pain go away. I'm sure it works in some instances, but I have a pharmacy of Percocet, Vicoden, Flexeril, a few other things I don't even remember and the only thing they did was make me sick to my stomach, dizzy and unable to function. THAT was certainly not a solution for me. My only suggestion to anyone who is injured in an accident, even a minor one, is to take control of your own medical care. Don't settle for the "it will go away in a few days or weeks", "you just need to work through the pain" (my personal fav) or even, "it was only a minor accident, you'll be fine" in that dismissive tone. Don't let them brush you off if you are really experiencing pain. And if their referrals or suggestions don't work for you (I went to chiro that only worked a little and the first PT actually made the situation worse) then continue to pressure them for other options (Physiatrist and 2nd PT did the trick for me, but by then, it was 8 months, lots of pain and even more $$ later). I'm afraid that's the only little bit of wisdom I have to give after receiving so much help from this board/Marsha7.
I am not defending the chiro, just simply stating that they are very useful for the things they are good at...yes, some are very heavy handed and firm (the way I like it) and some are very gentle with the hand and some use instruments for a gentler effect...
Read back about 100 posts and I have always recomended limits well over the required minimum...GA minimum is 25K and here in GA the policy limits must be disclosed by law...I have no idea about your state, but, if 25K is the minimum, then demanding 41K sounds reasonable to me...if your demand exceeds policy limits and they are willing to pay limits to you, you will often hear a comment like "well, we cannot meet your 41K demand as we only have limits of 25K"...here in GA, due to the disclosure law, we will know if they are lying, but I cannot tell for your situation...
While it may not help in this matter, that is why I also reco high limits for UM, uninsured/underinsured motorists...if you had 40K in med bills and they only had 25K limits, if you had UM of 100K then your own UM would pick up where the 25 leaves off because it is also UNDERinsured motorists insurance...if it seems like the burden is on you for all the insurance, it is, simply because the other guy cannot be depended on to always have 100K limits on everything, so you need medpay, UM, rental insurance ($15/year) in addition to enough liability, collison and comprehensive...
You are right to be cynical, since too many folks run around with the absolute minimum insurance they can get away with by law, and so you must by sufficient insurance for you and to make sure that they have enough by buying enough UM to matter...
Murphys law states that wherever you cut corners is where you will need the coverage...if you save the $15 on rental car, they will need 2 weeks to investigate the wreck to determine if they are at fault...while their investigation proceeds, and while they have NOT yet assumed liability, they certainly will NOT pay for your rental until they assume liability...you, on the other hand, need a rental car from day 1, so you use your rental car insurance...oh, you "saved" the money by not spending $15/year for rental coverage???...then now you will shell out $150+ weekly for a car until they finally reimburse you in 4-6 weeks...now you complain to me that you don't have the $$$ for a rental???what am I supposed to do???...so, that is why I recommend virtually everything they offer...
Unlike extended warrantys on $20 radios, or $15 calculators, most of the riders in auto insurance are very useful and almost always worth the money for the premium, and my experience watching clients with minimal coverage crying because they should have bought it, because they will now lose their job because with no rental, they can't get there...
Good luck on those policy limits, I wish I knew if you have the disclosure law that we have down here in GA...
In a typical lawyerly fashion, the answer is yes...and no...
It truly depends on your financial situation, the value of the car and the cost of the premiums...I think I have a prime example...
We owned a 1988 Prelude until 2001...in 1998, 1999 and 2000, we kept comp and coll because the car's value was about $4000-5000, but the premiums were only about $200 per year with a $250 deductible...so, I maintained the insurance because it was worth $200 yearly to me so that if the car was stolen, totalled or burned, they would pay me $4K which would be a nice down paymt for the next car...
If the car was only worth $800, say a 1972 Chevy Nova, paying $200 yearly would be ridiculous...
What if you own a Lexus LS430, six years old and paid off...considering the value of the vehicle, I would seriously consider keeping comp and coll, since repairs could easily top $10K-15K, unless you have the wherewithal to pay that out of pocket...
Those are the parameters you must consider if you want to drop comp and collision...
I see. We have comp and collision on our 97 Quest. I never considered dropping it but just had a conversation with the cashier at our local c-store whose civic was caught in the flash flood that we recently had. She had stated that since it was paid off she only had liability on it. That and what I have read on here just had me thinking. Thank you chris
Ask yourself two questions: What would it do to your finances if the car just "disappeared"? What would it do, and how would you feel, if you had to pay $2800 for bodywork?
I've got a '96 Mazda with 151k on it and I've got full coverage... it's $25 per month, so it's not too bad, and I'll drop it after I've had the car for a few months. IOW, I'm ok with it if my $2,000 car just goes away, but not right after I bought it.
Whether there's a loan on it or not basically doesn't mean anything. Once you own anything to anybody -- a mortgage, say -- what is the meaning of "cash" anyway? -Mathias
You make a lot of sense. I like the insurance that we'll at least get 'something' for what we have invested in this vehicle-so I guess $80 a year is good for my/our peace of mind...And it is paid for which is a very lovely statement Chris
For example you total out your vehicle. The salvage yard will give you up to 25% of its value for the wreck, you've saved the annual premium for the coverage and you still have your deductible. Add it all up & weigh out peace of mind cost.
Because Comprehensive is not as expensive, I'd be tempted to retain that coverage.
Hi there. I live in California and recently rented a truck to move some personal stuff. I was parking, the truck bumper hit a parked car as I went by and caused 4500 worth of damage. It hooked the car bumper and ripped it and the fiberglass fender clean off. I went out, found the people who owned the car, we exchanged info, etc. and then my insurance company (I have collision and comp) denied the claim because the truck was too big (over 3,000 lb. capacity) although actually it was small, only a 14 ft bed. I objected that there wasn't clear and obvious notice in the policy but it is there - it's just a fine print thing. Anyway, I had taken all the insurance the rental place offered but it turns out that's only for their truck. So it turns out that there was no way I could have even insured the truck. So now, supposedly the other person's insurance is supposedly going to pay. The other driver wants me to pony up their 1,000 deductible, which seems fair, but will their insurance company come after me for the rest? Or more than the rest? And if I get the driver to sign a release which also mentions the insurance company does that have any binding force on the insurance company? Should I just call their insurance adjustor and discuss this with him or is it better to just get the car owner to sign a waiver and see what happens?
And as a second question, I saw on an III website that rental places are legally required to provide liability insurance. Is this true?
If I have to pay this whole thing I'm going to be in serious trouble. Any suggestions? If anyone can reply quickly, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
rental truck liability does not cover collision damage like what you have, but it is limited strictly to injury liability...seems that rental agencies have loopholes in the law (IMO) where their liability policies are not 50/100/50 like an auto policy, just 50/100...and they usually have a deductible like $3000-5000, and you have to purchase a rider to bring the ded down to $250-500...in essence they insure for catastrophic damages, and you are responsible for the ded unless you buy a ded policy...
I WOULD double check your own policy, however, because they should normally insure any vehicle you drive until its size reaches commercial size, and 14 foot does not sound THAT large, plus, you were using it for personal use...if you had rented the truck to move someone else for $$$, that is commercial use and they would be right to refuse coverage, but this is personal use...
I certainly cannot guarantee it, but there may be coverage from your personal policy, unless it specifically states "any vehicle over ### pounds GVW will not be covered by this policy"
If none of this works, you would certainly be responsible for the other guy's deductible...would the other ins come after you for their payout???...possibly...for more than the payout???...no, unless they added filing and atty fees...if they paid out $4K in repairs, they really should not be coming after you for $8K, just the payout amount, plus what I just mentioned...if they know your ins won't pay, I would guess they would not go after you, but adjusters can be quirky...
Signing a release is probably worthless with the other guy, I would talk to his adjuster, as they represent the ins compnay at this point...
Tough luck on the damages -- maybe I can help a little, but bear in mind this information is not policy specific, nor state specific.
First, it's good of you to stop and inform the car owner ... though it likely will cost you some money, your integrity should remain intact.
A few things: 1. I would CAREFULLY reread the policy exclusion, or more likely, the definition of a vehicle that your insurance company is attempting to deny your claim with. Then, I would make sure you obtain the VIN, year, make and model, along with the GVWR of the exact truck/van you rented. Basically, don't take your insurance company's word for it that it isn't a covered vehicle -- double check yourself.
2. If you took all of the insurance offered by the rental company then somewhere along the lines you are likely insured -- I'll touch on where in a bit.
3. Don't pony up the 1k to the other driver -- their insurance company will come after you either way -- you might as well give them it all in one lump sum if you have to pay -- or set up a payment plan with them. The fewer people that you are paying to, the better and less complex -- let them manage refunding their insured the deductible.
4. No release that the insured signs -- once the insurance company pays -- will have any binding effect over them. At best, if he signs a release, then collects from his insurance company, then you provide them with the release, they will subrogate their insured for his money back -- if you want to try to pull a fast one like that you should have just driven away from the scene. More likely however, they will laugh off your release and send the file to collections.
5. As for liability coverage -- in my state the rental company is forced to carry liability coverage on their vehicles. Now this coverage is usually excess above any other insurance (oddly though, nearly all insurance companies will deny a rental truck of a certain size -- often leaving the rental liability insurance primary.) I would follow up with the rental company -- or tell the other party to file a claim against the rental company's insurance carrier -- that is both his and your best bet for getting off without paying out excess money.
and, I like what lilyowen said that I instinctively knew, but did not point out...by telling the other driver, your integrity remained intact...it may be the ONLY thing we really carry with us as we proceed with our lives...
Sorry to be so philsophical, but lily made an excellent point, along with the other posted points...
My Farmers' insurance totaled my car but they're deducting 40% off of it's value and said it's because of the salvage title. I don't know what's the difference but my car has a reconditioned title :confuse: and I have been paying full premiums for this car without any realization on what's the difference. All of a sudden, now that it is totaled, they want to give me less value for what I have been paying the insurance premiums for. :sick: This is not enough for me to purchase anything remotely close to what I had and I opted for repair but they tell me since it has a salvage title I only have but 2 options. 1) Buy back the car and repair it myself or 2) Accept the 40% deduction offer they gave me. I don't know much about cars or how it's valued but I think I'm being taken advantage of, can anyone help point me in the right direction? Thanks!
I have never personally run into this situation (how's that for covering my buns???) but I will give it a shot...
Something does not seem right, as the insurance presently has it both ways...charging you full premium, despite knowing (I assume they did know it was a salvage title?) it was salvage, but now wanting to deduct a major percentage due to the salvage title...
My guess, and it may be a poor one, is to try and get an appraisal of what the vehicle was worth prior to collision, maybe from photos, bills from repairs and rebuild, and what the vehicle cost when you purchased it...in essence, try and document what the vehicle cost you in toto, and then try and negotiate from there...I have no idea if you have any chance of prevailing, but it is worth a try...
If the 40% discount is substantial in actual dollars (obviously if the vehicle cost you $2000 and they want to pay $1200, this is not worth it...but if you paid $10K and they discount to $6K, this is worth fighting over) then if my thoughts above do not work, you may have the unpleasant option of suing Farmers in Magistrate Court on your own...
I mention this option because I see an inherent injustice here, where Farmers had knowledge of salvage (reconditioned, but they call it salvage) and did not discount the premium but now using that same knowledge to cheat you out of reimbursement for value...this sound like something that a judge may see as inherent injustice (one possible legal theory is "unjust enrichment") and award you full value...
I know what a salvage title is, but just what is reconditioned and who determines the diff between recond and salvage in your state???
My limited comprehension is that a salvage title is where a previously totalled vehicle is stripped of its parts and virtually rebuilt on the same chassis...so I am not sure what recond means...
BTW...when clients ask me if they should keep the totalled vehicle I always reco NOT to do so, because the hoops they make you jump thru are too much to offset what you get to keep in the total...one exception...a client totalled a 1985 Chevy truck that just had a new engine installed...for what the salvage cost him, maybe $250, he kept the truck because he had ANOTHER 85 Chevy in his yard in good condition, and he was able to transfer the engine himself...so, he bypassed all the paperwork trying to put the salvage back on the road and just put the new engine in another vehicle that was already roadworthy, so that buying the salvage just really meant getting back his new engine rather than let a junkyard profit from his new engine...
What Bob is saying feels right ... if. IF they knew that your prior vehicle was a salvage vehicle. The unfortunate truth is, and this is REALLY state dependent, most insurance companies will not, or cannot (without incurring extensive cost) run your VIN prior to a claim being filed. In fact, when a claim is filed they often will not know that you have a salvage title unless your vehicle is deemed a total-loss.
It is my guess (note "guess") that you bought your vehicle aware that it had a reconditioned title -- you got what you perceived to be a great value -- maybe 25% less than other comp vehicles were going for. See what you ultimately need to understand, whether it is ethical or not, is that your policy likely (certainly) states that they owe you "actual cash value" for your vehicle (or the least of repair, replace, etc...) If your vehicle has a salvage title the ACV is significantly less -- call around, verify this. Call every dealer in your area and ask them what they will give you for a '00 GS400 in a trade-in -- now gently add on that it has a branded title -- they'll backstep REAL quick-like at that point. That is essentially how your carrier is determining the difference between a non-branded ACV and a branded ACV.
Is there a difference between reconditioned and salvage brands on a title -- I don't know, what state is your vehicle registered in?
Is it a crappy thing for the insurance company to do -- maybe yes, maybe no. Would it be fair for people to buy a poorly rebuilt salvage vehicle (or not rebuilt at all) for 500.00 -- that books at 10k and then expect their insurance company to pay them full book for the same when it's in a wreck? You see, there are many unscrupulous people out there (not the least of which are the insurance companies.) The best way to protect yourself is to know what you're getting into (i.e., know your policy) or in the case of the insurance companies, have a clearly worded policy, i.e., ACV, TMV, etc...
>. Would it be fair for people to buy a poorly rebuilt salvage vehicle (or not rebuilt at all) for 500.00 -- that books at 10k and then expect their insurance company to pay them full book for the same when it's in a wreck?
If I got a lower price on a quality car that I wanted and that was because it had a salvage title, does that mean the insurance company isn't responsible to supply me with a replacement of equal _quality_ if they choose not to supply cash value based on appearance? The fact I'm a good shopper and found a reconditioned unit that was of a good enough quality I wanted to drive it shouldn't be used against me. The insurance company had the VIN and could have run it at any time. They then can choose to charge less insurance since they're going to plan to pay less.
OTOH if I have a car of collectible value far beyond what I paid for it, you are saying the insurance company has to pay the higher value to replace/rebuild the car. If you're sayng they can elect to pay less because of blemished title then they have to pay more when the value of vehicle has risen quickly above the earlier market value. Insurance companies (and their agents) try to always couch things to their benefit.
If I got a lower price on a quality car that I wanted and that was because it had a salvage title, does that mean the insurance company isn't responsible to supply me with a replacement of equal _quality_ if they choose not to supply cash value based on appearance?
But a vehicle of "equal quality" would have a salvage title and, therefore, command less money.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If your house burns, do they replace the $1500 glasstop range that you got for $650 because it was a closeout model at Lowes with something from a junkyard to meet the same price range or do they replace it with a $1500 glasstop range in the current equivalent model level?
If I remember the fine print of the policy correctly, they give you current value, don't they? So my $5k TV is only worth about $2k. I could be wrong on that.
In any case, when it comes to what I have in my house, the insurance has no idea what I paid for things.
And, frankly, when it comes to my car, I don't believe my insurance knows what I paid for that, either. So I don't believe, if I had a salvage title, they would know it was a salvage. Again, I could be wrong, as I've never had one, but I do know I've never sent my insurance company a copy of a title on any car I've every owned.
I was just answering your statement. "Equal Value" would take salvage into account, that's all. Whether they KNOW its salvage or not in order to take that into account is a different story.
Let's try this a different way. How about you buy a parts car that that was involved in a fire. Its burned to a crisp. Interior is gone, paint is gone, etc. It starts up, so you throw some tires on it, put a lawnchair in it and drive it down the street where you promptly get into a major accident and the car catches fire (again). Does the insurance company owe you full value for a vehicle that WASN'T burned or damaged to begin with?
I could be wrong (again), but I believe something like that would be insurance fraud.
The car is worth what its worth, right? So if you buy a salvaged car for $8k, but claim to your insurance company its worth $16k ... I think you could get in some trouble.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
When the $1500 glasstop range becomes a permanent part of the dwelling and when the dwelling has "Replacement Cost" coverage, which is usual with Homeowner policies, the policy pays for a like kind of replacement when the home is rebuilt.
When the glasstop range is not a permanent part of the dwelling and when you have purchased Replacement Cost on Contents, you get replacement cost, only when you actually and physically replace the damaged property.
If you choose to cash out, depreciation takes place so as to prevent the Moral Hazard from occurring.
but may be wrong, that the concept of getting a good deal on a salvage car is not the same as getting a discount from Lowes on a discontinued model rangetop...
Cars are titled and tracked by VIN, license plate, often taxed by the states, whether by registration for the plate or ad valorem tax (GA)...
There is an entire market set up for the purchase of used cars that may or may not have warranties, etc...no such network exists for used rangetops from Lowes...
Hence, a salvage title has less value than a comparable vehicle, because, I am assuming, that the original vehicle was totalled and paid out by some insurance company...you bought it at a discount because it was a salvage, so it is probably not worth a comparable vehicle that was never totalled, that is just the way the market in cars seems to work...
The insurance never has the responsibilty to provide you with a similar vehicle of comparable value...that died back in the stone age, simply because similar vehicles often can never be found, so they simply pay off what the value of the car is, and you go hunting for anything you want...plus, commerce progresses more rapidly if they just pay you off, as they could spend months finding a similar car, but it is white and yours was green...forget simialr vehicles that concept is from the 1960s...
Some of the others here have done a fine job on several of the issues raised by your post. I'll confine my comments only to the 40% deduction due to the branded title.
For what's it's worth, my own view is that, broadly speaking, a branded title reduces the value of a vehicle by at least one-third. I know there are some dealers on this site who claim the reduction should be about (or at least) 50%.
Soooooo, the insurance company figure here is in the ballpark. It would help if you could provide more information about the vehicle.
I didn't exactly say it is fair, but it pretty much seems so to me. If you are indeed a good shopper and get a non-branded vehicle in good condition (to be sold at market value) for below market price then your carrier would indeed owe you market.
If you decide that a good value includes a vehicle with a branded title, yes, they indeed owe you for the market value of a comparable vehicle -- one with a branded title or as others have pointed out -- 1/3 to 50% reduction in the market price of a similar non-branded vehicle.
OTOH, I would read your policy carefully regarding the collectible value of a car -- you may find that they would indeed owe you for the market value of that collectible car -- or more likely, they would suggest that obtain a "stated amount" policy -- thereby establishing a ceiling on the value of your vehicle -- selected by you.
For instance -- Honda Civics have recently, due mostly to gas prices and perceived quality, risen in value substantially. I know more than one person who has been paid thousands over what they paid for their now totalled out Civic -- more than a year after they purchased it. See, it can work both ways.
Beyond that -- the home owners insurance example has been clearly addressed by euphonium -- Apples to Oranges my friend.
Hi all. I need a bit more help. I'm filing an insurance claim against my auto insurance carrier through my MedPay coverage. They've sent me a Medical Authorization form to sign and return "in case" they need additional codes or records. I read in a book somewhere that I am not required to sign such an authorization to the at-fault person's insurance but that if it is my own insurance, I really don't have much choice other than to sign the authorization. But this one from MetLife says things like "may also include: data about...sexually transmitted diseases...alcohol and drug abuse...AIDS..." as well as saying they can obtain any records from doctors, dentists, rehab, etc. "about the claimants medical history and findings...both before and after the date indicated on this form and regardless of time of the accident". Now I don't have AIDS or STDs or issues with drugs and alcohol, nor will they find a single comment in my entire medical history regarding any type of prior back/neck pain or chiro care, but do I really need to give my insurance carte blanche access to my medical history? I mean, do they really have any business looking at the results of my last OBGYN visit? Other Authorization forms I have signed to obtain my own records allow you to limit the data to specific dates or the injury in question, or at least let you say you DON'T want them to have access to certain data. While I have absolutely nothing to hide, I hate the idea of having this open-ended intrusion into my life.
On the other hand, they won't even begin considering my MedPay claim without it. And the adjuster "said" she would only use it for issues related to the accident. Do I have any recourse here or should I just sign the thing and be done with it? It just isn't sitting well with me for some reason (Remember me? I'm the cynic. Maybe they'll decide that the gall bladder surgery I had in 2003 contributed to my back/neck injury! Who knows!!)
issue that is difficult to get around...obviously, an insurance company will want to know if you have been treating for lower back pain, neck pain, or whatever for the last 10 years...they use the info to try and minimize your claim...:):):)...but they really have no right to know your sexual history, any gyno problems you may have had, lung cancer, wart surgeries, or whatever...
And, if you have ever made an insurance claim for any health problem, injury-related or not, you claims are on a master file called the MIB (medical information bureau) which they have access to...it is used specifically to determine if you have made any prior claims by coded symptom in the diagnosis (example, 724.2 means lower back pain, 784.0 is headaches, 723.1 is neck pain)...
I really do not know what to tell you to do...as an attorney, when I get clients med records, I only send the relevant records to the liability carrier and argue from there, as I will protect my client's interest and privacy the best I can...when you do this on your own, I can understand why you feel your privacy is at risk, but w/o records they may not pay the claim...
Difficult dilemma, but I refuse to tell you what YOU should do, because you will interact differently with an insurance company than I will...sadly, it is one of the advantages of working with an attorney, so I can't recommend how much of your life you should expose to the world...
Attn: Adjuster Thank you for sending your standard Medical Authorization form. As this form encompases issues not related to the accident, please resend a Medical Authorization for issues only related to the accident. I understand you have generic forms, but as I'm not a generic insured - a specific and individually taylored form would be more acceptable. Your understanding and cooperation is appreciated.
Apparently you have difficulty reading. Our standard policy which you hold clearly specifies in section 892 subsections sections 67 though 71 paragraphs 123, 124 and 125 that the Insurer shall have total, complete and on-demand access to all relevant information about you, your life, your income, your friends, children, spouses and so on both public and private. Moreover, your payment of the first premium and your filing a claim constitute your agreement that the absolute need on our part is absolute.
You are to return the standard medical form completed in full with all required information by noon tomorrow or your policy WILL be cancelled per the requirements of Section 1024b, subsection 121y paragraph 27 of our contract.
Don't mess with the insurance company!
Signed,
Ernestine, formerly the head TELEPHONE COMPANY OPERATOR! :P :P :P :P
All I signed was the application for coverage and none of your verbiage was agreed to prior to the accident so attend to my original request without further correspondance otherwise. It's not my style to enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed adjuster.
that comes to mind, but I do not know if they will accept it...you could try what I do, which is go to all of your treating doctors and hospitals for this accident, and request your records from the accident only, and also itemized bills...they already know that group ins will subrogate so showing payments is not a problem...
Submit the bills with the records, make your demand, and see what happens...
Hi! I'm new to the forum, had a similar question. Thank you for the info. My isurance company is using what they call "fair market value" to assign value to my car. It sounds very similar to what you described, however, when I did my own research into cost of similar and equal vehicles by my zip code, I got much higher values than what they claim is fair market value. Is this a common practice among insurance companies to assign lower values and have the consumer argue for a better value, or is this process difficult and often mistakes are made? The amount they are assigning my car, in prisine condition prior to the wreck is 4,000 less than I owe on the vehicle, and 5,000 less than what it would cost me to buy the exact same vehicle (albeit not totalled ) if I wanted to replace it. Thank you for any help you can provide!
We needs more information. What you have provided is a scenario, but nothing to work with.
Please give the make, model, year, mileage, trim level, engine, and transmission of your car. Describe its condition, and tell us what your insurance co. is offering. Then we may be able to give you an idea of where you stand.
Used-car valuation is an art more than a science, and without seeing the car, it's particularly difficult. OTOH, you've come to the place; there's a lot of knowledge on these boards.
I suspect that like most people, you have no idea what you can buy a similar car for. Remember, ads never show you what cars are "going for". They only show what they're "not going for", inasmuch they all ain't sold yet...
$4k behind asking price is often doable on a $27k vehicle; maybe on a $15k vehicle -- if the dealer was really greedy -- and probably not on a $9k vehicle. So we really need to know what's going on.
What you owe on the vehicle has, of course, no bearing at all on the payout. Unless you have GAP coverage.
Another item I find with insurance companies is that they "inadvertently" [:):):)] look up the wrong model of car...example...you have a 2004 Honda Accord EX-L (leather) and they look up the value for a 2004 Accord LX...I believe the base MSRP difference between these two models is at least $3-5,000, due to the leather, V6, auto, sunroof, etc....so when they say on the phone, "Yeah, your 2004 Accord according to our book is worth $9,500", because they said just enough to identify your car, but they really did not get too specific about your car, and at a moment like that, you think you heard them describe your car...I believ it is more common than you think...
Maybe it can't happen to cars like Lexus SC430, since they are probebly all decked to the max and sell for similar MSRP, but cars like Accord, Camry, that are sold at multiple levels of equipment with specific designations (like DX, LX, EX, EX-L) are easy to confuse you...
I would check your own sources first (edmunds, kbb, nada) to get a nice average value for YOUR car with YOUR level of equipment, then call them and ask how they arrived at their value and what car did they actually look up???
Also remember that aftermarket equipment rarely adds value to the vehicle, like special wheels, new tires, recent maintenance (valve jobs, brakes, tires, exhaust)...but a new engine or transmission bought in the last six months can usually recover 50% of cost if you can prove cost with paid receipts...
Also, as properly stated by steine, the value of your car has NOTHING to do with what you owe on it...if your car is worth $15K but you owe $18K, you will have to dip in your wallet for the extra $3K to pay off the totalled car, unless you have GAP...sad, but true...
Our car was broken into a couple of nights ago, while standing in our driveway. Front passenger window was broken. The insurance company refuses to give a straight answer as to whether claiming this will increase our rates. They say they can only tell us after we submit a claim.
Is there any way we can make an educated guess before we decide whether to submit a claim? What factors would affect the decision?
My son's Mustang was broken in to in 2003, several thousand in damage, didn't affect his rates. I've had two claims for glass damage on my 99 CRV since I've owned it, hasn't affected my rates. With most reputable ins. companies, I don't think comprehensive claims affect your rates as much as collision claims.
It would be most unusual for them to raise your rates based on one minor comprehensive claim. However, what do you suppose might happen if you have a liability claim next month? It happened to me last summer soooooooo I paid the liability claim (less than $400) out of my pocket after my insurer had paid more $2000 on a vandalism claim the month before.
If your breakage loss here is solely the side glass, you might want to give serious thought to just paying for it yourself.
Thank you, mike and cccompson, for your help. Meantime I called back and it turns out that the rep I spoke to over the weekend was not from the claims dept.
Spoke with the claims dept. and they told me that this is covered under my policy with no deductible and without any repercussions on my future premium rate or the policy. She said it was covered under the comprehensive part of the policy and since these types of incidents have nothing to do with driving ability, they won't be held against us.
ccompson, I thought like you at first - that it's probably best to pay for it myself. But in any case I don't think it would have affected the liability rates as much as your claim did, because it would only be for about $100, not $2000 as in your case.
But since they said it won't affect our policy or premiums, and we don't even have to pay a deductibel... we scheduled the repair for tomorrow .
Comments
If your case is solid, the insurance will not want to run up against the expiration of the statute...if your case is weak, YOU will not want to run up against the expiration because then you are the one on defense...
Also, make your demand, stand your ground up to a point, but do NOT be greedy...you are entitled to compensation, but do not expect to be a millionaire off this case...
I am amused when folks come in with simple neck and back pain, have $1500 in chiro bills, and they tell me they expect $10 grand in their pocket after fees and expenses...I gently "escort" them to the door, tell them to expect about $1000 in their pocket, and come back to me when the hallucinatory drugs wear off...meanwhile, take this crap to the lawyer down the street, as I am amazed what folks think their case is worth and what will make them "happy"...
If you don't mind an additional question, I have one more about calculating my initial demand. The accident was unfortunate because I was turned (body and neck) at more than a 45 degree angle checking for oncoming traffic while trying to merge when the woman hit my stopped car. The angle of my body/neck and lack of any support to either made the injury, in my opinion, quite significant (but no, there were no visible injuries so I'm stuck with "whiplash" as a diagnosis). Oh, and I have ZERO history of any neck or back pain. And the woman fully admitted liability...she just "didn't see me" but did see me "fly forward in my seat" from the impact.
Anyway, I've seen my PCP a few times and had Physiatry, Chiro (never been to one before and only a bit of help) and PT (finally, relief) as well as expensive drugs and patches over more than 18 months. The physiatrist's final report states that I will only achieve a 90% (95% if I am lucky) recovery from these injuries. I've calculated the original (non-negotiated) cost of these services and I am at $9500!! I almost fell over! Then 95 hours of lost work over a few months (not appts, straight sick/vaca time due to pain) comes to $3000. The entire situation is aggravated by the fact that my husband and I were planning to, how do I put this, start the process of having a baby after the holidays (so early 2005). That has been put totally on hold due to the physical limitation, medication and pain (documented by my PCP but unfortunately not by the chiro, even though he specifically told me to wait). I am just now able to start thinking about it again and I am 35 so that clock is ticking!
I don't want to be dramatic, and I don't want to be greedy, but I'm concerned that I will get the following from an adjuster: there was little damage to your car, why are your expenses so high, we don't think highly of chiro care, your records are up and down (feeling better, then suffering a setback, then feeling better, then suffering a setback). I'm an honest person. I'm educated, intelligent, great job at a respected company, no reasons to exaggerate a claim to get a few grand. I would forego all money to have my life back 100% and no back/neck pain, but that isn't going to happen. So when I go to calculate that initial demand, and if I were in an adjuster's shoes looking at a "whiplash" claim with these figures, I would be skeptical. If I assume the multiplier is 4, I come to $41,000 (9500x4 + 3000). I mean, I certainly feel like I'm entitled to compensation, but realistically, is an adjuster going to look at that number and laugh? What would you consider a reasonable initial demand and, just an opinion please, what would be the minimum you would settle for if you were in my situation?
And I'm sorry, I've never been able to write anything in fewer than 20 sentences!!
LIke all cases, you have plusses and minuses...low damage to the car is a big minus (juries often do not believe people have been injured from "fender benders" until THEY have one, and then they expect the million dollar settlement), going to a chiro is not a minus, as chiros are recognized to usually help auto accident victims, often much more than MDs and their mind-altering drugs...
The at-fault driver's comment of flying forward from the impact will be helpful if she will repeat it or the officer put it in the police report...if she will not repeat it and it is not written, it does you no help...
The chiro was wise not to state anything in the record about delaying your pregnancy, as it is outside the scope of practice for them to make any "medical" recommendations, despite the fact that common sense says that while you are recovering from trauma, it is wise not to get pregnant...do not fault the DC for that...
It is OK that Geico is aware only of your health ins subrogation, so that way they "know" that your bills still have to be paid (whether to the doctors or group health, the bills still have to be "paid"...now is the time to file medpay for the bills to be repaid while the letters still tell Geico that they have not been paid back yet)
$9500...it is what it is...assuming no fraud, that is what it took to treat you...when you negotiate with geico, argue that your bills must be paid and you are entitled to pain and suffering due to this lady's negligence and carelessness when she drove her car...I would demand the $41,000 and see what they say...
Rest assured they will sound shocked at such a ridiculous request...he,he,he...as tho no one has ever demanded that much in the history of Geico...:):):)...they will then counter offer, which is their first offer, usually ridiclously low, but still, it tells you where your FLOOR is...then, you call them back in a few days and drop from 41K to, say, 33K...they will then come up, but not as much as you went down...remember, they have the $$$ and you do not...yet...:):):)...
Then you can probably come down from 33K to maybe, 27K, assuming they have not come up to 27K yet...these numbers are approximate as you might expect...
Also remember, you have flexibility that they do not know, because you are arguing as tho you have to pay back the extra $$$ to health ins, but you know that medpay should take care of it, but they do not know it...:):):)
At some point, you may be only 3-6 thousand apart...that is when I offer to split the difference with them (and know what that number is so you can say, OK, you offered 27K and I want 33K, lets split the difference at $30K and settle this)...they will usually come back and say, sounds good but I can only go to $28,500 (remember, every dollar they save for the insurance counts to their Xmas bonus)...
you can then think about it for 2-3 days, and tell them you will call them back...
Call back in 2-3 days, tell them that 28,500 just isn't adequate and you want the $30K...they will either come up to, say, 29K or hold firm...it is your choice now as to accept or not...it might then be time to accept...AFTER the negotiations are over, you should then demand that all the $$$ be sent to you, and that you will see that group is reimbursed and subrogated...you may wish to then reveal that medpay will repay group and the $$$ should be sent to you anyway...they are used to this as it is quite standard in this business
One last thought...when they say "I will make you an offer" or "I will make you another offer", it usually means that there is more $$ to be had...when they say "this is my final offer" or "this is my offer for full and final settlement" it usually means that they are at their full authority and there ain't no more $$$ to be offered, i.e. this is the full value of your case in their opinion...it is your judgment as to whether to settle or not, but unless you intend to sue, you should probably accept their "final offer"...
Let us know how you make out...
I hear what you are saying about the minus being my car damage. I was such a cynic before this accident and I will never be again...for the most part because we all know fraud does happen. Now that it's me, I recognize that just because she didn't crush my entire trunk doesn't mean I wasn't hit hard, it only means Mazda knows how to make a solid car.
And I'm glad to hear your opinion of chiropractic care after reading in one book that adjusters will discount it. I've never seen one before and it initially seemed like voodoo medicine to me (is the cynic rearing it's ugly head again?). He did help to some degree. I had a nurse practitioner diagnose me with carpal tunnel a few months after the accident because I had shooting pain from my armpit to two fingers. That same day the chiro told me it was due to the neck trauma, did an adjustment two days in a row and the pain was virtually gone and hasn't returned. I type ALL DAY at work and there has been no recurrence so carpal tunnel it was not and I fully believe the chiro work fixed the problem. PT as prescribed by the Physiatrist was much more effective for the back/neck though and that's where most of the costs come from...$5K to be exact. I was shocked by their charges.
I just hate the idea of negotiating anything, but I guess I will start with the $41K figure and see what they do. I have a book on negotiating that is very much in line with what you say above, although your answer is more tailored to me and not just a generic case study.
I'll certainly let you know how it turns out. I can't thank you enough for your comments!
Because of the info I've been reading from your posts... I educated a friend of mine who bought a friends Acura. He thought that there was no rush in changing the title over because his friend (female) said, "drive the car, don't worry about settling right away". She thought as he did that if he was in an accident, he would just claim it on his own insurance.
Well, from what I learned from you ..... is when you let someone "borrow" your car, they BORROW your insurance too. When my friend called his agent, he said exactly the same thing. The car deal was done pronto just because of the insurance situation.
Mark
Well, I can't do that, this thing I'm responsible for shouldn't affect her rates!!
So I paid for it out of pocket. Expensive lesson, believe me. :sick:
And I agree with you - Bob/marsha7 is a tremendously helpful Forums member. He spends a lot of time helping people just because he wants to. Good on you, Bob, and thanks very much!!
smoochy: chiropractic is an interesting profession...I summarize it this way...for what it is good at, there is often nothing better...for what it has no business doing, it has no business doing...this is not doublespeak...for neck and back pain, headaches, dizziness, arm/leg numbness, carpal tunnel of unknown origin, spinal adjusting can do wonders...this also assumes that the above-mentioned problems do not have ORGANIC origins like ruptured disc, fracture, brain tumor, etc...but when someone is suffering badly, and the all the MD testing is negative, or all they can say is pinched nerve or pulled muscle, I will often reco a chiro for the accident case and they almost always get good results, but they must allow sufficient time, often 3-8 weeks of care, depending on severity of problems...naturally, they have no business treating diabetes, cancer and many organic problems, but most auto injuries are musculoskeletal in nature, simply because the impact can dislodge/twist spinal bones, pull and tear muscles/ligaments/tendons and cause resulting pain and spasm...
The reason orthopedic surgeons can't stand chiropractors is because many of their recommended lower back surgeries are magically "unnecessary" after 2-3 months of chiro care...and the cost of the chiro pales in comparison to what the surgery costs, and too many surgeries still fail, but the surgeon never fails to be paid...MDs hate competition, and for musculoskeletal injuries chiros are worthy competition...
As far as negotiating, since you are handling your case w/o an attorney, you must be prepared mentally for the negotiation process...as much as I hate to admit it, I would venture that much of our business is because most folks hate the negotiation process, and for some reason, attorneys seem to thrive on the adversarial process and we love to threaten to clog the courts and sue people...:):):):):)...take that comment with tongue in cheek...
You have also run into another problem and you summarized it well...in my heart I really believe that folks can be injured in minor fender benders...not paralyzed or killed mind you, but can suffer symptoms of pain and spasm that does not "go away in 3 days" like every ER in the country will tell you (damn stupid MDs again)...but juries are rather stingy here in GA, often awarding $$$ less than the medical bills, yes you read that right, because they feel that these are nuisance cases...until THEY get injured, if you catch my drift...
I believe this because in 1989 I was rear-ended in my new 1988 Legend while sitting at a dead stop...only pushed me forward about 2 feet, literally broke the red plastic on my trunk lid, about $100 of damage, hardly anything to even consider...by the next morning, I had a splitting migraine headache which I never had before, and it was recurrent for close to 8 weeks...went to chiro 3 times weekly for 10 weeks, felt immediate relief of headache after spinal adjustment, just took many adjustments until headache did not return...worked for me...did not want to take usual drugs that cloud the brain and make you sleepy or unable to drive...for those who want the drugs, OK with me as I don't care, but I always tell my clients about chiro and let them make up their own mind...
mark156...thanks for the kind words, but who/what is "Terry?"...
Bob (real name) / marsha7 (user named after my wife)
Terry, aka rroyce10, is one of the more knowledgeable folks in the car biz on these boards, great sense of humor, and tells it like it is. He hasn't been around in about a month though.
Bob, I thought you would know who he was. He is the guru on the "Real World Trade-In Value" thread. He hits trade-in/private party values just about 100% every time! Helped me a couple of times and it was greatly appreciated.
I had a "small" injury after being re-ended. About two years ago I was driving my 2000 Mercedes E430 sport. I was stopped at a light and as it turned green (I think my foot was still on the brake) I was rear-ended by a late model Ford Ranger truck. He hit me just as square as a car can be hit. He hit my bumper and when the plastic squeezed in, it pushed up the trunk lid up slightly. The repair was $1,800. Not bad really but since the trunk lid had to be painted, it is just a tinge darker which bothers me. I don't think most people would notice. I only have 33,000 miles on the car and will keep it for a while longer as it has been excellent and trust worthy.
Back to my small injury.... That guy hit me so hard in the rear that my head slammed into the headrest. Thank goodness I was sitting square in my seat with both hands on the steering wheel. My head hit the headrest so hard I was dazed for a moment. I actually felt dizzy the whole time (1.5 hours) before the traffic enforcement police arrived to give the guy a ticket. He got an additional ticket for not being able to prove he had insurance. In the end, he did have it and his insurance company covered my car repair. :sick:
You could hardly see the damage on my vehicle because the bumper worked as it should, taking all of the impact. But my head hurt and luckily I haven't had any problems since the accident.
Mark
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Marsha7, I hope you didn't think I was implying that chiro care is not valid care. I was just saying that my uneducated perception when I was referred to one was to be skeptical. One chiro certainly helped with my hand issue, but was also too aggressive. I've since heard that others take a gentler approach so maybe it was just a matter of the wrong treatment for me. I will say that some folks around here definately give you the "yeah right" look when you put whiplash and chiropractor in the same sentence. Until, as you said, it happens to them!!
You also hit the nail on the head about the crazy amount of drugs most doctors want to give you to magically make very bad pain go away. I'm sure it works in some instances, but I have a pharmacy of Percocet, Vicoden, Flexeril, a few other things I don't even remember and the only thing they did was make me sick to my stomach, dizzy and unable to function. THAT was certainly not a solution for me. My only suggestion to anyone who is injured in an accident, even a minor one, is to take control of your own medical care. Don't settle for the "it will go away in a few days or weeks", "you just need to work through the pain" (my personal fav) or even, "it was only a minor accident, you'll be fine" in that dismissive tone. Don't let them brush you off if you are really experiencing pain. And if their referrals or suggestions don't work for you (I went to chiro that only worked a little and the first PT actually made the situation worse) then continue to pressure them for other options (Physiatrist and 2nd PT did the trick for me, but by then, it was 8 months, lots of pain and even more $$ later). I'm afraid that's the only little bit of wisdom I have to give after receiving so much help from this board/Marsha7.
Read back about 100 posts and I have always recomended limits well over the required minimum...GA minimum is 25K and here in GA the policy limits must be disclosed by law...I have no idea about your state, but, if 25K is the minimum, then demanding 41K sounds reasonable to me...if your demand exceeds policy limits and they are willing to pay limits to you, you will often hear a comment like "well, we cannot meet your 41K demand as we only have limits of 25K"...here in GA, due to the disclosure law, we will know if they are lying, but I cannot tell for your situation...
While it may not help in this matter, that is why I also reco high limits for UM, uninsured/underinsured motorists...if you had 40K in med bills and they only had 25K limits, if you had UM of 100K then your own UM would pick up where the 25 leaves off because it is also UNDERinsured motorists insurance...if it seems like the burden is on you for all the insurance, it is, simply because the other guy cannot be depended on to always have 100K limits on everything, so you need medpay, UM, rental insurance ($15/year) in addition to enough liability, collison and comprehensive...
You are right to be cynical, since too many folks run around with the absolute minimum insurance they can get away with by law, and so you must by sufficient insurance for you and to make sure that they have enough by buying enough UM to matter...
Murphys law states that wherever you cut corners is where you will need the coverage...if you save the $15 on rental car, they will need 2 weeks to investigate the wreck to determine if they are at fault...while their investigation proceeds, and while they have NOT yet assumed liability, they certainly will NOT pay for your rental until they assume liability...you, on the other hand, need a rental car from day 1, so you use your rental car insurance...oh, you "saved" the money by not spending $15/year for rental coverage???...then now you will shell out $150+ weekly for a car until they finally reimburse you in 4-6 weeks...now you complain to me that you don't have the $$$ for a rental???what am I supposed to do???...so, that is why I recommend virtually everything they offer...
Unlike extended warrantys on $20 radios, or $15 calculators, most of the riders in auto insurance are very useful and almost always worth the money for the premium, and my experience watching clients with minimal coverage crying because they should have bought it, because they will now lose their job because with no rental, they can't get there...
Good luck on those policy limits, I wish I knew if you have the disclosure law that we have down here in GA...
Chris
It truly depends on your financial situation, the value of the car and the cost of the premiums...I think I have a prime example...
We owned a 1988 Prelude until 2001...in 1998, 1999 and 2000, we kept comp and coll because the car's value was about $4000-5000, but the premiums were only about $200 per year with a $250 deductible...so, I maintained the insurance because it was worth $200 yearly to me so that if the car was stolen, totalled or burned, they would pay me $4K which would be a nice down paymt for the next car...
If the car was only worth $800, say a 1972 Chevy Nova, paying $200 yearly would be ridiculous...
What if you own a Lexus LS430, six years old and paid off...considering the value of the vehicle, I would seriously consider keeping comp and coll, since repairs could easily top $10K-15K, unless you have the wherewithal to pay that out of pocket...
Those are the parameters you must consider if you want to drop comp and collision...
chris
What would it do to your finances if the car just "disappeared"?
What would it do, and how would you feel, if you had to pay $2800 for bodywork?
I've got a '96 Mazda with 151k on it and I've got full coverage... it's $25 per month, so it's not too bad, and I'll drop it after I've had the car for a few months. IOW, I'm ok with it if my $2,000 car just goes away, but not right after I bought it.
Whether there's a loan on it or not basically doesn't mean anything. Once you own anything to anybody -- a mortgage, say -- what is the meaning of "cash" anyway?
-Mathias
Chris
Because Comprehensive is not as expensive, I'd be tempted to retain that coverage.
4500 worth of damage. It hooked the car bumper and ripped it and the fiberglass fender clean off. I went out, found the people who owned the car, we exchanged info, etc. and then my insurance company (I have collision and comp) denied the claim because the truck was too big (over 3,000 lb. capacity) although actually it was small, only a 14 ft bed. I objected that there wasn't clear and obvious notice in the policy but it is there - it's just a fine print thing. Anyway, I had taken all the insurance the rental place offered but it turns out that's only for their truck. So it turns out that there was no way I could have even insured the truck. So now, supposedly the other person's insurance is supposedly going to pay. The other driver wants me to pony up their 1,000 deductible, which seems fair, but will their insurance company come after me for the rest? Or more than the rest? And if I get the driver to sign a release which also mentions the insurance company does that have any binding force on the insurance company?
Should I just call their insurance adjustor and discuss this with him or is it better to just get the car owner to sign a waiver and see what happens?
And as a second question, I saw on an III website that rental places are legally required to provide liability insurance. Is this true?
If I have to pay this whole thing I'm going to be in serious trouble. Any suggestions? If anyone can reply quickly, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
I WOULD double check your own policy, however, because they should normally insure any vehicle you drive until its size reaches commercial size, and 14 foot does not sound THAT large, plus, you were using it for personal use...if you had rented the truck to move someone else for $$$, that is commercial use and they would be right to refuse coverage, but this is personal use...
I certainly cannot guarantee it, but there may be coverage from your personal policy, unless it specifically states "any vehicle over ### pounds GVW will not be covered by this policy"
If none of this works, you would certainly be responsible for the other guy's deductible...would the other ins come after you for their payout???...possibly...for more than the payout???...no, unless they added filing and atty fees...if they paid out $4K in repairs, they really should not be coming after you for $8K, just the payout amount, plus what I just mentioned...if they know your ins won't pay, I would guess they would not go after you, but adjusters can be quirky...
Signing a release is probably worthless with the other guy, I would talk to his adjuster, as they represent the ins compnay at this point...
Tough luck on the damages -- maybe I can help a little, but bear in mind this information is not policy specific, nor state specific.
First, it's good of you to stop and inform the car owner ... though it likely will cost you some money, your integrity should remain intact.
A few things:
1. I would CAREFULLY reread the policy exclusion, or more likely, the definition of a vehicle that your insurance company is attempting to deny your claim with. Then, I would make sure you obtain the VIN, year, make and model, along with the GVWR of the exact truck/van you rented. Basically, don't take your insurance company's word for it that it isn't a covered vehicle -- double check yourself.
2. If you took all of the insurance offered by the rental company then somewhere along the lines you are likely insured -- I'll touch on where in a bit.
3. Don't pony up the 1k to the other driver -- their insurance company will come after you either way -- you might as well give them it all in one lump sum if you have to pay -- or set up a payment plan with them. The fewer people that you are paying to, the better and less complex -- let them manage refunding their insured the deductible.
4. No release that the insured signs -- once the insurance company pays -- will have any binding effect over them. At best, if he signs a release, then collects from his insurance company, then you provide them with the release, they will subrogate their insured for his money back -- if you want to try to pull a fast one like that you should have just driven away from the scene. More likely however, they will laugh off your release and send the file to collections.
5. As for liability coverage -- in my state the rental company is forced to carry liability coverage on their vehicles. Now this coverage is usually excess above any other insurance (oddly though, nearly all insurance companies will deny a rental truck of a certain size -- often leaving the rental liability insurance primary.) I would follow up with the rental company -- or tell the other party to file a claim against the rental company's insurance carrier -- that is both his and your best bet for getting off without paying out excess money.
Sorry to be so philsophical, but lily made an excellent point, along with the other posted points...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have never personally run into this situation (how's that for covering my buns???) but I will give it a shot...
Something does not seem right, as the insurance presently has it both ways...charging you full premium, despite knowing (I assume they did know it was a salvage title?) it was salvage, but now wanting to deduct a major percentage due to the salvage title...
My guess, and it may be a poor one, is to try and get an appraisal of what the vehicle was worth prior to collision, maybe from photos, bills from repairs and rebuild, and what the vehicle cost when you purchased it...in essence, try and document what the vehicle cost you in toto, and then try and negotiate from there...I have no idea if you have any chance of prevailing, but it is worth a try...
If the 40% discount is substantial in actual dollars (obviously if the vehicle cost you $2000 and they want to pay $1200, this is not worth it...but if you paid $10K and they discount to $6K, this is worth fighting over) then if my thoughts above do not work, you may have the unpleasant option of suing Farmers in Magistrate Court on your own...
I mention this option because I see an inherent injustice here, where Farmers had knowledge of salvage (reconditioned, but they call it salvage) and did not discount the premium but now using that same knowledge to cheat you out of reimbursement for value...this sound like something that a judge may see as inherent injustice (one possible legal theory is "unjust enrichment") and award you full value...
I know what a salvage title is, but just what is reconditioned and who determines the diff between recond and salvage in your state???
My limited comprehension is that a salvage title is where a previously totalled vehicle is stripped of its parts and virtually rebuilt on the same chassis...so I am not sure what recond means...
BTW...when clients ask me if they should keep the totalled vehicle I always reco NOT to do so, because the hoops they make you jump thru are too much to offset what you get to keep in the total...one exception...a client totalled a 1985 Chevy truck that just had a new engine installed...for what the salvage cost him, maybe $250, he kept the truck because he had ANOTHER 85 Chevy in his yard in good condition, and he was able to transfer the engine himself...so, he bypassed all the paperwork trying to put the salvage back on the road and just put the new engine in another vehicle that was already roadworthy, so that buying the salvage just really meant getting back his new engine rather than let a junkyard profit from his new engine...
What Bob is saying feels right ... if. IF they knew that your prior vehicle was a salvage vehicle. The unfortunate truth is, and this is REALLY state dependent, most insurance companies will not, or cannot (without incurring extensive cost) run your VIN prior to a claim being filed. In fact, when a claim is filed they often will not know that you have a salvage title unless your vehicle is deemed a total-loss.
It is my guess (note "guess") that you bought your vehicle aware that it had a reconditioned title -- you got what you perceived to be a great value -- maybe 25% less than other comp vehicles were going for. See what you ultimately need to understand, whether it is ethical or not, is that your policy likely (certainly) states that they owe you "actual cash value" for your vehicle (or the least of repair, replace, etc...) If your vehicle has a salvage title the ACV is significantly less -- call around, verify this. Call every dealer in your area and ask them what they will give you for a '00 GS400 in a trade-in -- now gently add on that it has a branded title -- they'll backstep REAL quick-like at that point. That is essentially how your carrier is determining the difference between a non-branded ACV and a branded ACV.
Is there a difference between reconditioned and salvage brands on a title -- I don't know, what state is your vehicle registered in?
Is it a crappy thing for the insurance company to do -- maybe yes, maybe no. Would it be fair for people to buy a poorly rebuilt salvage vehicle (or not rebuilt at all) for 500.00 -- that books at 10k and then expect their insurance company to pay them full book for the same when it's in a wreck? You see, there are many unscrupulous people out there (not the least of which are the insurance companies.) The best way to protect yourself is to know what you're getting into (i.e., know your policy) or in the case of the insurance companies, have a clearly worded policy, i.e., ACV, TMV, etc...
If I got a lower price on a quality car that I wanted and that was because it had a salvage title, does that mean the insurance company isn't responsible to supply me with a replacement of equal _quality_ if they choose not to supply cash value based on appearance? The fact I'm a good shopper and found a reconditioned unit that was of a good enough quality I wanted to drive it shouldn't be used against me. The insurance company had the VIN and could have run it at any time. They then can choose to charge less insurance since they're going to plan to pay less.
OTOH if I have a car of collectible value far beyond what I paid for it, you are saying the insurance company has to pay the higher value to replace/rebuild the car. If you're sayng they can elect to pay less because of blemished title then they have to pay more when the value of vehicle has risen quickly above the earlier market value. Insurance companies (and their agents) try to always couch things to their benefit.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But a vehicle of "equal quality" would have a salvage title and, therefore, command less money.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In any case, when it comes to what I have in my house, the insurance has no idea what I paid for things.
And, frankly, when it comes to my car, I don't believe my insurance knows what I paid for that, either. So I don't believe, if I had a salvage title, they would know it was a salvage. Again, I could be wrong, as I've never had one, but I do know I've never sent my insurance company a copy of a title on any car I've every owned.
I was just answering your statement. "Equal Value" would take salvage into account, that's all. Whether they KNOW its salvage or not in order to take that into account is a different story.
Let's try this a different way. How about you buy a parts car that that was involved in a fire. Its burned to a crisp. Interior is gone, paint is gone, etc. It starts up, so you throw some tires on it, put a lawnchair in it and drive it down the street where you promptly get into a major accident and the car catches fire (again). Does the insurance company owe you full value for a vehicle that WASN'T burned or damaged to begin with?
I could be wrong (again), but I believe something like that would be insurance fraud.
The car is worth what its worth, right? So if you buy a salvaged car for $8k, but claim to your insurance company its worth $16k ... I think you could get in some trouble.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
When the glasstop range is not a permanent part of the dwelling and when you have purchased Replacement Cost on Contents, you get replacement cost, only when you actually and physically replace the damaged property.
If you choose to cash out, depreciation takes place so as to prevent the Moral Hazard from occurring.
Cars are titled and tracked by VIN, license plate, often taxed by the states, whether by registration for the plate or ad valorem tax (GA)...
There is an entire market set up for the purchase of used cars that may or may not have warranties, etc...no such network exists for used rangetops from Lowes...
Hence, a salvage title has less value than a comparable vehicle, because, I am assuming, that the original vehicle was totalled and paid out by some insurance company...you bought it at a discount because it was a salvage, so it is probably not worth a comparable vehicle that was never totalled, that is just the way the market in cars seems to work...
The insurance never has the responsibilty to provide you with a similar vehicle of comparable value...that died back in the stone age, simply because similar vehicles often can never be found, so they simply pay off what the value of the car is, and you go hunting for anything you want...plus, commerce progresses more rapidly if they just pay you off, as they could spend months finding a similar car, but it is white and yours was green...forget simialr vehicles that concept is from the 1960s...
For what's it's worth, my own view is that, broadly speaking, a branded title reduces the value of a vehicle by at least one-third. I know there are some dealers on this site who claim the reduction should be about (or at least) 50%.
Soooooo, the insurance company figure here is in the ballpark. It would help if you could provide more information about the vehicle.
I didn't exactly say it is fair, but it pretty much seems so to me. If you are indeed a good shopper and get a non-branded vehicle in good condition (to be sold at market value) for below market price then your carrier would indeed owe you market.
If you decide that a good value includes a vehicle with a branded title, yes, they indeed owe you for the market value of a comparable vehicle -- one with a branded title or as others have pointed out -- 1/3 to 50% reduction in the market price of a similar non-branded vehicle.
OTOH, I would read your policy carefully regarding the collectible value of a car -- you may find that they would indeed owe you for the market value of that collectible car -- or more likely, they would suggest that obtain a "stated amount" policy -- thereby establishing a ceiling on the value of your vehicle -- selected by you.
For instance -- Honda Civics have recently, due mostly to gas prices and perceived quality, risen in value substantially. I know more than one person who has been paid thousands over what they paid for their now totalled out Civic -- more than a year after they purchased it. See, it can work both ways.
Beyond that -- the home owners insurance example has been clearly addressed by euphonium -- Apples to Oranges my friend.
On the other hand, they won't even begin considering my MedPay claim without it. And the adjuster "said" she would only use it for issues related to the accident. Do I have any recourse here or should I just sign the thing and be done with it? It just isn't sitting well with me for some reason (Remember me? I'm the cynic. Maybe they'll decide that the gall bladder surgery I had in 2003 contributed to my back/neck injury! Who knows!!)
I would appreciate any feedback.
And, if you have ever made an insurance claim for any health problem, injury-related or not, you claims are on a master file called the MIB (medical information bureau) which they have access to...it is used specifically to determine if you have made any prior claims by coded symptom in the diagnosis (example, 724.2 means lower back pain, 784.0 is headaches, 723.1 is neck pain)...
I really do not know what to tell you to do...as an attorney, when I get clients med records, I only send the relevant records to the liability carrier and argue from there, as I will protect my client's interest and privacy the best I can...when you do this on your own, I can understand why you feel your privacy is at risk, but w/o records they may not pay the claim...
Difficult dilemma, but I refuse to tell you what YOU should do, because you will interact differently with an insurance company than I will...sadly, it is one of the advantages of working with an attorney, so I can't recommend how much of your life you should expose to the world...
Thank you for sending your standard Medical Authorization form. As this form encompases issues not related to the accident, please resend a Medical Authorization for issues only related to the accident. I understand you have generic forms, but as I'm not a generic insured - a specific and individually taylored form would be more acceptable. Your understanding and cooperation is appreciated.
S. Moochy
Apparently you have difficulty reading. Our standard policy which you hold clearly specifies in section 892 subsections sections 67 though 71 paragraphs 123, 124 and 125 that the Insurer shall have total, complete and on-demand access to all relevant information about you, your life, your income, your friends, children, spouses and so on both public and private. Moreover, your payment of the first premium and your filing a claim constitute your agreement that the absolute need on our part is absolute.
You are to return the standard medical form completed in full with all required information by noon tomorrow or your policy WILL be cancelled per the requirements of Section 1024b, subsection 121y paragraph 27 of our contract.
Don't mess with the insurance company!
Signed,
Ernestine, formerly the head TELEPHONE COMPANY OPERATOR! :P :P :P :P
I couldn't resist!
tidester, host
Signed, S Moochy :mad:
Submit the bills with the records, make your demand, and see what happens...
Please give the make, model, year, mileage, trim level, engine, and transmission of your car. Describe its condition, and tell us what your insurance co. is offering. Then we may be able to give you an idea of where you stand.
Used-car valuation is an art more than a science, and without seeing the car, it's particularly difficult. OTOH, you've come to the place; there's a lot of knowledge on these boards.
I suspect that like most people, you have no idea what you can buy a similar car for. Remember, ads never show you what cars are "going for". They only show what they're "not going for", inasmuch they all ain't sold yet...
$4k behind asking price is often doable on a $27k vehicle; maybe on a $15k vehicle -- if the dealer was really greedy -- and probably not on a $9k vehicle. So we really need to know what's going on.
What you owe on the vehicle has, of course, no bearing at all on the payout. Unless you have GAP coverage.
-Mathias
Maybe it can't happen to cars like Lexus SC430, since they are probebly all decked to the max and sell for similar MSRP, but cars like Accord, Camry, that are sold at multiple levels of equipment with specific designations (like DX, LX, EX, EX-L) are easy to confuse you...
I would check your own sources first (edmunds, kbb, nada) to get a nice average value for YOUR car with YOUR level of equipment, then call them and ask how they arrived at their value and what car did they actually look up???
Also remember that aftermarket equipment rarely adds value to the vehicle, like special wheels, new tires, recent maintenance (valve jobs, brakes, tires, exhaust)...but a new engine or transmission bought in the last six months can usually recover 50% of cost if you can prove cost with paid receipts...
Also, as properly stated by steine, the value of your car has NOTHING to do with what you owe on it...if your car is worth $15K but you owe $18K, you will have to dip in your wallet for the extra $3K to pay off the totalled car, unless you have GAP...sad, but true...
Is there any way we can make an educated guess before we decide whether to submit a claim? What factors would affect the decision?
TIA
If your breakage loss here is solely the side glass, you might want to give serious thought to just paying for it yourself.
Spoke with the claims dept. and they told me that this is covered under my policy with no deductible and without any repercussions on my future premium rate or the policy. She said it was covered under the comprehensive part of the policy and since these types of incidents have nothing to do with driving ability, they won't be held against us.
ccompson, I thought like you at first - that it's probably best to pay for it myself. But in any case I don't think it would have affected the liability rates as much as your claim did, because it would only be for about $100, not $2000 as in your case.
But since they said it won't affect our policy or premiums, and we don't even have to pay a deductibel... we scheduled the repair for tomorrow
Thanks again!