Read this as well. Flimsy 5mph tests are just a small look at an overall crash test picture.
Someone left out that Nissan(Infinity) did poorly, so did a few others(Mercedes, also, I believe, and Chrysler, and one other)I think Toyota 4 Runner..ALL POOR FOR BUMPER TESTS! Honda Pilot(400 dollars bumper damage) got an acceptable rating, but the rest were marginal to poor. Mercedes, Chrysler and I think Infinity all cost more(2,800, 2,400,) damage, where Kia was 2,200. Check this out(a REAL WORLD crash test result!!!!)
Kia Sorento Earns Five-Stars in Side-Impact Crash Test Kia Joins Mercedes and Volvo in Achieving Highest Rankings IRVINE, Calif., July 16, 2003 – The 2003 Kia Sorento mid-size SUV has earned five-stars, the federal government’s highest side-impact safety rating, for the front seat occupant and rear-seat passengers in new side impact crash tests, according to information released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
The Sorento was one of only three new models in a group of vehicles tested recently by NHTSA to receive the five-star ratings in side impact crash protection. The other two models were the Mercedes C240 and the Volvo XC90.
The side crash tests are part of NHTSA’s New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) that provides consumers with safety information about the two most dangerous injury-causing crashes. NHTSA tested Kia’s all-new 2003 Kia Sorento 4x4 in a simulated intersection-type collision with a 3,015 pound barrier moving at 38.5 mph into a standing vehicle.
“The Sorento’s five-star rating for front seat occupant and rear seat passengers in side-impact collisions is a tremendous achievement and a real-world confirmation of Kia’s engineering ability and our efforts to maximize occupant safety in our products,” said Peter M. Butterfield, Kia’s president and chief operating officer. “With a NHTSA five star rating, more standard equipment and a powerful V6 engine, the Sorento stands out as a smart buy in the competitive SUV market.”
Now that is a meaningful crash test result. As for the bumper test, one's insurance will have to deal with damage like that, now won't it? Believe me, they'll get their money back from EVERYBODY who drives ANY type of vehicle when they write in loss tally-ups for MINOR bumper-tumpers. It's the very nature of their business. As for me, I'd rather drive a SUV that will actually protect me in an accident.
BTW-I drive a 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4 and Kia was the first manufacturer to include knee airbags for SUV drivers. The little truck is VERY solid and I feel extremely confident driving around in it. If I should need to make my own road(in a bad flood or fire event, perhaps)the small, handsome SUV will accommodate my needs for that as well. Kia does it right..ladder on frame. The new Sportage will not have it but the Sorento still does BTW.
The annoucement of the bumper basher tests for this class of SUVs, and the Sorento coming in last place in the POOR category will certainly give insurance companies reason to jack up our rates - despite the fact that it's rated highly in the side impact crash test. Stand by for the IIHS offset test - which I understand is coming shortly. Any bets on the outcome?
iluvmysephia1 - You are quoting a press release from Kia that is over four months old. The Sorento was the only one of of three because ONLY THREE WERE TESTED AT THAT TIME :-)
As you can see there are DOZENS of SUV's, in fact the vast MAJORITY, that received a 5-star rating in the side-impact crash test. And the Sorento only got THREE stars in the rollover rating. So the crash test results are nothing to crow about, and even if they were, they don't excuse the LAST place in the bumper tests.
Mercedes, Infinity and Cadillac are luxury class so their excessive 5mph damage costs can be somewhat excused.
Kia Sorento is economy class, and sustained HIGHER damage costs than those three.
As far as insurance, you will eventually pay through your deductible and premiums.
What looks like "economy" is certainly not very economic in the long run.
...WOW! Great great great points!! Now that I can see how your mind works and where your unbiased logic is coming from...why would anyone in this room have ever considered buying a Sorento? What were we all thinking?
The bottom line is that there are all too many cars, SUV and trucks that have poor bumpers. Gone are the days of old when a bumper was a bumper in the true sense of the word. These days the only thing the bumper is on most new cars is a 'skin' cover over the end of the frame to make it look pretty - with no shock absorbing pistons to protect anything. Shame on the manufacturers for allowing this occur. There's no excuse - other than the almighty dollar - for them to skimp in this area. How did it happen? It's only been going on for years!
And guess who pays the price - WE DO - for insurance costs, on top of the premium dollars we already pay for new vehicles.
There is no need for those bumpers on trucks with frames cause their frames protect the occupants in crashes. That is why MOST frame based SUVs have no bumpers at all, only covers over sheetmetal and foam. They are trying to compare the Sorento to car-based SUVs for 5mph tests, just like when they hammered the Trooper and other rear-tire mounted trucks for backup-into-pole tests, you deserve to have the back smacked up if you can't backup w/o hitting a pole! And if you get rearended, the other driver foots the bill.
What would you rather be in? A truck like the sorento as it headons a CRV or would you rather be in the CRV?
paisan just nailed this little escapade shut in his post #3091 above. Consider it closed unless you're very numb-skulled...the frame of the truck(or SUV)will protect you in the event of a real crash. I love these stupid non-arguments against the Sportage and Sorento...they're entertaining but undounded in truth. Drive your Sportage and Sorento with pride! We are in safe rigs and they are affordable and we DON'T lose money in the long run! I love stories with HAPPY endings! Kia just keeps getting better and better and better and better. Period.
If "Kia keeps getting better and better and better" then why do Sorento sales keep going down and down and down?
Maybe its because most people don't spend their money on cars that end up in dead-last place on respected lists by Consumer Reports and the NHTSA, which exist to educate open-minded consumers who appreciate the data.
But I'm sure the NHTSA would love to hear the theory that their study is stupid because Sorento just doesn't need bumpers in the first place! ;-)
Just to clear up a few things for people. First point is ALL vehicals have bumpers, full frame unibody whatever they all have them. What we see normally is the plastic bumper cover, behind that is the styrofoam and behind that is the metal BUMPER. Personally i think nymphetamine is just out to case trouble and should be banned from here, but thats me. If anyone looked at all the SUVs on that page, almost all of them got a poor rating on the bumper basher test. As for full frame against unibody in a crash...take your pick. If anyone would like to try to blast me on these points go ahead. I do auto body repair, these are facts, not opinions. And if i wanted to be a real pain in the a--, how do we know that the test the nthsa are better than the tests that the iihs does as compared to the tests some other company does??? If you want to argue safty of a vehical go ahead, but we are all gonna drive what we want.
There is no bumper on my Trooper. Behind the front bumper is THIN SHEET METAL. The Federal Gov doesn't require bumpers on vehicles classified as "trucks". If you want to call this thin sheet metal + foam + plastic = bumper, then so be it. I know mine weighed about 5-7lbs, yet I know 2 people who T-boned other cars @ 40+ mph and neither one of them was injured.
There is no need for those bumpers on trucks with frames cause their frames protect the occupants in crashes.
They "protect" the occupants only when they collide with cars. The stiff frames make things worse for the occupants if they collide with another stiff framed vehicle, bridge abutment, trees an so on.
bigfur - If you don't like what the numerous studies conclude, you can try to sell your car that came in last place, but don't attack the messenger again or else you will be banned.
paisan - thank you for admitting your car doesn't even HAVE bumpers, that explains a lot of your previous comments, and I will read all your new comments in light of your admission.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I am just a visitor browsing through this forum. However, while I will accept the argument that bumpers are not related to overall safety in high speed crashes, good bumpers make life easier. Recently, my wife was in a wreck (not her fault) where someone pulled out in front of her Izuzu Rodeo. The impact point was on the very corner away from the area where the frame attaches to the plastic pathetic excuse for a bumper.
We had $2,000 worth of damage in a low speed wreck. The embarrassing thing was our big tough SUV had to be towed off because the bumper folded back onto the tire, while the car that pulled out in front of her drove away with minimal damage. Now we drive a Subaru Forester XT. Good high speed safety in the 40 mile per hour offset and side impact ratings and good five mile per hour bumpers.
Why can't truck builders attach good bumpers to the frame? The argument that because you have a frame you don't need a good bumper is silly. It seems that it would be simple and easy to attach a good bumper to a solid frame. I have strong libertarian leanings, but I think it is a shame that the automakers will not put decent bumpers on trucks just because it is not mandated. This kind of attitude creates the situation where our government micro manages everything. However, for the market to work properly, we need information. Now that we know the problem, hopefully people will start demanding bumpers that will protect our SUVs in low speed collisions.
Sorry for the length of this rant. By the way, for all you Sorento guys please know that if we had decided we needed to replace the Isuzu with a real SUV, the Kia would have been on our short list, but I already have a pick-up and we wanted something that drove more like a car - a very fast car with the turbo.
"The argument that because you have a frame you don't need a good bumper is silly."
If it even qualifies for an argument.
"Why can't truck builders attach good bumpers to the frame?"
The short answer is they just don't care. Quality costs more, and no one has ever not purchased a vehicle based on a cheap bumper UNTIL these NHTSA studies come out and UNLESS the customer is aware of them, and then its all down hill from there.
The latest 40 mph frontal offset crash test from the IISH (http://www.hwysafety.org/) gives the Sorento an acceptable rating. 8 others in its class recieved a Good rating.
The only area the sorento seemed to fall short were the airbags - they said the dummies head struck the steering wheel through the airbag. And, the dummies head struck the B pillar on rebound (don't know if the side curtain deployed or not)
But, over all, as far as safety cage, intrusion, steering wheel movement, etc... it was right up there with the Pilot/Highlander/RX330 etc...and, it performed better than quite a few other vehicles.
Just a couple of minor improvements on KIA's part should get it up to Good. I wonder now if KIA is going to recall the airbag to reprogram it for better head protection.
Not to beat a dead horse, but also saying that if you get hit by someone they have to pay for it is not a good argument.
Putting aside all the idiots out there without insurance, what scenario would you rather have.
1. Someone bumps into you going 4 mph. You go out and look and your car is fine. You accept the person's apology and you are on your way.
2. Someone bumps into you going 4 mph. Your have $750 in damage. You have to get a police report and go through all the insurance stuff including driving to the other side of town to get an estimate. You drop your car off for three days to get it fixed and have to get a rental. You get your car back and the shop did not match the paint right on your new bumper. Aaaagggh.
Even if insurance "paid" for this, no one will compensate you for your lost time and aggravation.
Plus, even for a otherwise good driver, because of visibility issues when driving a tall vehicle like a truck or SUV, it is - ahem, theoretically possible to back into a small fixed object that is difficult to see, especially at night(don't ask me how I know this). Life is a lot easier if such an encounter does not leave any damage to your vehicle.
The "backing into something at night" doesn't hold water for me. If you can't see, why would you backup? Oh right we are too much in a hurry to do things nowdays so we just backup w/o looking.... Put the car in PARK, get out, look to make sure it's clear, then proceed, not the end of the world.
As for "real" bumpers, from what I've read it's just added weight that these already heavy vehicles don't need.
If you feel the manufacturers don't "care" then don't buy one, period.
FYI i drive a 2001 Silverado 1500 did worse than just about any other vehical i can think of in a crash test. Paisan: I realize how stupid it sounds to call that a bumper, but according to the crash books, that thin peice of metal is still called a bumper. Pretty sad isnt it?
on Kia's handsome Sorento then don't buy the SUV. As Mr.Sam Elliott once said in a particular Western I saw "Nuff said." No exclamation mark-just a plain old "Nuff said." I have to agree also with paisan on the backing up thing. We had BETTER be able to safely back our SUV's up(if we drive one).Pretty basic and standard stuff, men. Anybody heard from mikesf lately...paisan, do you remember him? He rolled his Sorento up in the Montreal area then went through an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE OF HELL trying to get absolution and total address to all of the issues involved in getting his Sorento repaired. I'd like to know that he made out fine with it!
At least for backing into something, once you get a trailer hitch installed, at least a straight line bump in the back probably wouldn't cause any damage as the hitch should hit first.
If you're woried about damage to your front bumper, just don't let your wife drive it! )
Oh ok, yes it's called a bumper... but it isn't really IMHO. I was quite suprised when I took mine off the trooper to put an ARB Steel Bumper in place of it. We pulled it off and 2 guys were bracing to hold it, meanwhile 1 person could easily hold it with 1 hand! The ARB however needed 2 guys to hold it in place while we bolted it to the frame Yum Yum.
oh trust me... i worked on quite a few Isuzu vehicals. Never worked on a Sorento though, be kinda interesting id think to tear one completely down and see what its made of. See if its ten pounds of crap in a five pound bucket or see if its the real deal. From what i have seen and heard it sounds quite strong. Also keep in mind with the ARB in place... you hit something with your front end you will do ALOT of damage to whatever you hit. Course being bolted to the frame it will twist your frame much more than a crash without it (saw that one on a 4Runner, wasnt pretty).
Yup I hear yah Big Fir. I actually offroad and saw an ARB save a guy's butt when his truck carreaned intoa tree. Took out a 4-5" radius tree. for the tree cause he came out unscathed as well as a driveable truck!
Interesting enough that the Sorento scored very well in the governments testing (NHTSA)and received a 5 star rating. In the testing just done by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety shown on Dateline recently (remember this was the Offset test to check out damage to the occupant and not the 5 mph bumper test)the Sorento received a Good rating. I read that Kia is going to have the one used in the test checked out to see if the airbag deployment was off and check some other things before it makes a decision on any kind of recall or fix. As far as the 5 mph bumper test. There were other vehicles that did not perform as well like the Kia and they were not mentioned such as the Chrysler and Mitsubishi. Auto writers like to pick on the not so great cars to make them look bad such as Kia or Hyundia. If the Korean autos are this bad why did GM just annouce that it will be bringing in a Daewoo auto with a GM badge to the states.
on the Korean makes and in fact recognizes them as fierce competitors. When Robert Lutz was still GM CEO he stated that the makers he feared the most were the Korean ones. Nuff said.
I really don't think that GM cares too much about competition from Korea, or Japan, for that matter, based on quality of vehicle issues. Most smaller GM SUV's are still P.O.S., yet they outsell everybody else because of incentives, financing deals, etc...
Just look at the crash results from a S-10, Bravada, etc.. You can see the way the car buckles up in that offset crash - not only is the car unsafe, but such a weak body design will surely reduce the longevity of the vehicle in the long run - you know, your typical GM shake rattle and roll feeling you get in a 3-4 year old GM vehicle.
Kile I said, a couple minor changes, and the KIA should be on par with the Toyotas, Hondas, Lexuses, etc... Pretty amazing for a second model year vihicle, and for KIA only marketing cars here for about 10 years now.
It's amazing the quality you can build, and the ability to make changes to improve quality, when you're not hog-tied by the UAW!
You would think that, but if you look at the real life data it is just the opposite. GM usually has the lowest death and injury for every segment! Even the S-10 Blazer you mention has real world numbers much better than most foreign SUVs, see link below. KIA does not do well in the real world, maybe the Sorento will change this.
Just like if you look at Buick. Generally an "older" generation, who are less likely to ding them for problems gets far higher ratings than their Chevy counterparts, when they are essentially the same cars! This is in terms of a reliability survey I saw a few years ago. The pool for these surveys are often dictating the results, not the product itself.
for any and all of you interested in the Sorento or lurking out there in cyberland who want to see how the Kia Sorento SUV fared in a European crash test. The Austrian people seem to dig Sorento a lot.
These test do take in to account the drives, of course. The interesting thing is the trends. That S-10 Blazer has about the same injury rating as the ML320, not bad at all. I would think that the Blazer would have a higher risk driver and you certainly see more teenagers driving them. The trend is that most Americann cars/trucks do the best and the Korean cars/trucks the worst. There also some merit that this is real life data.
I just thought I'd weigh in on the horsepower bump referred to in a previous post (which has in turn failed the answer the challenge re: details). I own a 1998.5 Audi A4 with a 2.8 liter V6 engine that some owners have tried to modify for greater gains. (The real gains are to be had in the 1.8L turbo, but that's another story.)
So ... stock, this very nice and smooth 30-valve engine has 190 horsepower and 207 ft-lbs of torque.
Adding an ECU chip -- mine is from GIAC -- brings that to 200 hp and (they don't publish figures, so I'm assuming a 1:1 ratio of improvements) 217 ft-lbs of torque.
Other owners have also modified the exhaust and report further gains of about 5%. So let's now say 210 hp and 225 ft-lbs of torque.
Finally -- and I live in California, where this is illegal -- some guys go one step further and modify the intake as well. The stock airbox is supposedly quite well designed, so little gains are seen here -- let's say 5 more each of hp and torque. (Most owners report absolutely zero effect with a simple drop-in K&N filter that replaces the stock; the mod is a cone filter and, in most cases, a heat shield.) So now you're up from:
190 hp & 207 ft-lbs of torque
to
215 hp & 230 ft-lbs of torque
Decent gains, but certainly nothing near what the alleged Sorento modder claims.
Other mad modders have yielded very small additional gain by replacing the fan unit with an electrically powered one -- this actually doesn't boost engine power, but relieves it of a little drain for running the fan.
So I, too, am highly suspicious of the Sorento modder's claims of (if memory serves) 245 and 275, respectively.
You once had posted information as to the bulb types for replacing the bulbs in the Sorento. I don't know if it was here at Edmunds or another forum. Can you repost that info on the bulb types. Headlights both hi and lo and fog lamps as well as any other lamps. The Kia manual on the Sorento has got to be the only manual I have ever read that does not list that info.
Low beam - H7 High beam - H1 Fog lights - 881 Front turn signal - 2357 or 1157 Front side marker - 168 or 194 Rear turn signal - 1156 Tail lights - 2357 or 1157 Back up - 1156 License plate light - 168 or 194
Yeap! No such info on the manual. You can also find this from Sylvania website. Hope this help.
I replaced the stock bulbs (H7 and H1) with MTEC super white bulbs. I bought them from ebay. They are made in Japan and have the same ratings as PIAA but they cost less. FYI - You need to remove the headlight assembly when replacing bulbs, same thing when you replace the tail lights bulbs. There is almost no space for your hands to reach the headlight bulbs. Plus, the H series bulbs are different than 9000 series. You need a screwdriver to remove a screw in order to get a pin out.
For the back up, front and rear turn signals, I just have some super white bulbs (I don't remember the name). And I am shopping for the super white fog light bulbs. The stock bulbs are from GE, 881 12v 27w. Some said the Silver Star bulbs don't last that long. And I have a very experience with PIAA on my other car. They last very long but too pricy.
Just got my Sorento. It is a 2003 LX 2x4 with 16k miles. According to the dealer, it was a Kia corporate vehicle. The interior and exterior are still perfect. They had it listed at $20,050. I had pre-financing and told them the most I could pay was $16,500. Well, it seems like they wanted to move their inventory, so I got it at $16,500!!! By the way, I bought it on a rainy day - I think we were one of the few customers that day. I feel like I got a good deal, what do you guys think?
Question: Anybody know if running an LX 2x4 in Snow mode all the time can have any adverse results (even in good California weather)?
Reason: 1st gear seems to rev up the engine too long before it shifts into 2nd and it gets annoying. Also, any ideas if this would make gas mileage any worse or better?
I'm guessing like you describe, that it is simply a forced lower gear (ie. below D, drive) or higher rpm shift settings. In that case, there is no need to use it in non-adverse weather, and yes it will affect gas mileage for the worse and possibly shorten transmission life. There is probably a speed limit associated with that mode.
Option 1: I prefer driving a 5 speed. Love the look of the black on beige interior and the side steps/roof rack that come with the sport package. Also, keyless entry (w/ sprt pkg) is another convenience I really appreciate. Ofcourse, also nice to save $1,200.
Option 2: I also like silver, but don't like the grey interior as much. The ONLY reason I am considering this option though is the ABS. Is it really worth it? My car has ABS and the only time it has come on was when I was horsing around in a parking lot with 6 inches of fresh snow... But then again, its all about that "one" time when it is needed I guess...
Anyway, any thoughts and advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Correct, Snow mode skips first gear and extends out second gear. I like it because it shifts much smother. First gear revs up too high for my taste. I just wonder how this would affect gas mileage.
Sounds to me like you pretty much answered your own question. You like the color and the fact that it's a manual 5sp vs NOT fond of the interior of the silver model and the fact that it's an automatic. The real difference is the ABS brakes. I for one prefer to have the ABS as an option of choice. With a vehicle as heavy as the Sorento, ABS is highly recommended. Like you mentioned, "it's all about that one time"
Suggestion: Just like searching for a mate, Don't settle for less than what you want! Anything less, you'll regret in time. Wait for a model you totally want eg; Black, 4x4, ABS, 5spd, Sports Pkg, mats, cargo tray and trailer hitch. Although the trailer hitch is not that important as I've read there are other mfg of trailer hitches that will provide a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs vs the 3,500 rated hitch that comes from the factory. Don't be pressured into buying only stock on hand. Look around, I'm sure you can find what you want at the price you want to pay. This past month has been slow for Kia in my area (SF Bay Area.) and dealers are really willing to deal. Internet deals are selling at $1 over dealer cost. Remember also, there's a $1000 cash back on 2004 models and $2000 cash back on 2003. With those types of cash backs it's easy to get a Sorento at MSRP AND less including Delivery charge, Sales Tax & License. I didn't get mine from the Internet since the dealers price was less. As for myself I got my 2004 Fully Loaded EX 4x2 (don't need 4x4 and why pay more for something I don't need) with ABS, Lux Pkg, Step Bars, Spoiler & Cargo Tray at MSRP out the door (and that includes paying 8.5% sales tax.) The price I paid was about $167 below dealer cost however the dealer did make $500 in hold-back from the mfg. Hold-back is how much the dealer gets from the mfg just for selling their inventory. GOOD-LUCK!
Comments
Someone left out that Nissan(Infinity) did poorly, so did a few others(Mercedes, also, I believe, and Chrysler, and one other)I think Toyota 4 Runner..ALL POOR FOR BUMPER TESTS!
Honda Pilot(400 dollars bumper damage) got an acceptable rating, but the rest were marginal to poor.
Mercedes, Chrysler and I think Infinity all cost more(2,800, 2,400,) damage, where Kia was 2,200.
Check this out(a REAL WORLD crash test result!!!!)
Kia Sorento Earns Five-Stars in Side-Impact Crash Test
Kia Joins Mercedes and Volvo in Achieving Highest Rankings
IRVINE, Calif., July 16, 2003 – The 2003 Kia Sorento mid-size SUV has earned five-stars, the federal government’s highest side-impact safety rating, for the front seat occupant and rear-seat passengers in new side impact crash tests, according to information released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
The Sorento was one of only three new models in a group of vehicles tested recently by NHTSA to receive the five-star ratings in side impact crash protection. The other two models were the Mercedes C240 and the Volvo XC90.
The side crash tests are part of NHTSA’s New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) that provides consumers with safety information about the two most dangerous injury-causing crashes. NHTSA tested Kia’s all-new 2003 Kia Sorento 4x4 in a simulated intersection-type collision with a 3,015 pound barrier moving at 38.5 mph into a standing vehicle.
“The Sorento’s five-star rating for front seat occupant and rear seat passengers in side-impact collisions is a tremendous achievement and a real-world confirmation of Kia’s engineering ability and our efforts to maximize occupant safety in our products,” said Peter M. Butterfield, Kia’s president and chief operating officer. “With a NHTSA five star rating, more standard equipment and a powerful V6 engine, the Sorento stands out as a smart buy in the competitive SUV market.”
Now that is a meaningful crash test result. As for the bumper test, one's insurance will have to deal with damage like that, now won't it? Believe me, they'll get their money back from EVERYBODY who drives ANY type of vehicle when they write in loss tally-ups for MINOR bumper-tumpers. It's the very nature of their business. As for me, I'd rather drive a SUV that will actually protect me in an accident.
BTW-I drive a 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4 and Kia was the first manufacturer to include knee airbags for SUV drivers. The little truck is VERY solid and I feel extremely confident driving around in it. If I should need to make my own road(in a bad flood or fire event, perhaps)the small, handsome SUV will accommodate my needs for that as well. Kia does it right..ladder on frame. The new Sportage will not have it but the Sorento still does BTW.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Here are the COMPLETE updated and accurate results posted last week: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/Cars/2003SUVs.html
As you can see there are DOZENS of SUV's, in fact the vast MAJORITY, that received a 5-star rating in the side-impact crash test. And the Sorento only got THREE stars in the rollover rating. So the crash test results are nothing to crow about, and even if they were, they don't excuse the LAST place in the bumper tests.
Mercedes, Infinity and Cadillac are luxury class so their excessive 5mph damage costs can be somewhat excused.
Kia Sorento is economy class, and sustained HIGHER damage costs than those three.
As far as insurance, you will eventually pay through your deductible and premiums.
What looks like "economy" is certainly not very economic in the long run.
Can you explain that to me?
Now we are learning, by the unbiased NHTSA, it doesn't work that way in the end :-)
And guess who pays the price - WE DO - for insurance costs, on top of the premium dollars we already pay for new vehicles.
What would you rather be in? A truck like the sorento as it headons a CRV or would you rather be in the CRV?
-mike
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Maybe its because most people don't spend their money on cars that end up in dead-last place on respected lists by Consumer Reports and the NHTSA, which exist to educate open-minded consumers who appreciate the data.
But I'm sure the NHTSA would love to hear the theory that their study is stupid because Sorento just doesn't need bumpers in the first place! ;-)
-mike
They "protect" the occupants only when they collide with cars. The stiff frames make things worse for the occupants if they collide with another stiff framed vehicle, bridge abutment, trees an so on.
tidester, host
bigfur - If you don't like what the numerous studies conclude, you can try to sell your car that came in last place, but don't attack the messenger again or else you will be banned.
paisan - thank you for admitting your car doesn't even HAVE bumpers, that explains a lot of your previous comments, and I will read all your new comments in light of your admission.
We had $2,000 worth of damage in a low speed wreck. The embarrassing thing was our big tough SUV had to be towed off because the bumper folded back onto the tire, while the car that pulled out in front of her drove away with minimal damage. Now we drive a Subaru Forester XT. Good high speed safety in the 40 mile per hour offset and side impact ratings and good five mile per hour bumpers.
Why can't truck builders attach good bumpers to the frame? The argument that because you have a frame you don't need a good bumper is silly. It seems that it would be simple and easy to attach a good bumper to a solid frame. I have strong libertarian leanings, but I think it is a shame that the automakers will not put decent bumpers on trucks just because it is not mandated. This kind of attitude creates the situation where our government micro manages everything. However, for the market to work properly, we need information. Now that we know the problem, hopefully people will start demanding bumpers that will protect our SUVs in low speed collisions.
Sorry for the length of this rant. By the way, for all you Sorento guys please know that if we had decided we needed to replace the Isuzu with a real SUV, the Kia would have been on our short list, but I already have a pick-up and we wanted something that drove more like a car - a very fast car with the turbo.
If it even qualifies for an argument.
"Why can't truck builders attach good bumpers to the frame?"
The short answer is they just don't care. Quality costs more, and no one has ever not purchased a vehicle based on a cheap bumper UNTIL these NHTSA studies come out and UNLESS the customer is aware of them, and then its all down hill from there.
The only area the sorento seemed to fall short were the airbags - they said the dummies head struck the steering wheel through the airbag. And, the dummies head struck the B pillar on rebound (don't know if the side curtain deployed or not)
But, over all, as far as safety cage, intrusion, steering wheel movement, etc... it was right up there with the Pilot/Highlander/RX330 etc...and, it performed better than quite a few other vehicles.
Just a couple of minor improvements on KIA's part should get it up to Good. I wonder now if KIA is going to recall the airbag to reprogram it for better head protection.
Putting aside all the idiots out there without insurance, what scenario would you rather have.
1. Someone bumps into you going 4 mph. You go out and look and your car is fine. You accept the person's apology and you are on your way.
2. Someone bumps into you going 4 mph. Your have $750 in damage. You have to get a police report and go through all the insurance stuff including driving to the other side of town to get an estimate. You drop your car off for three days to get it fixed and have to get a rental. You get your car back and the shop did not match the paint right on your new bumper. Aaaagggh.
Even if insurance "paid" for this, no one will compensate you for your lost time and aggravation.
Plus, even for a otherwise good driver, because of visibility issues when driving a tall vehicle like a truck or SUV, it is - ahem, theoretically possible to back into a small fixed object that is difficult to see, especially at night(don't ask me how I know this). Life is a lot easier if such an encounter does not leave any damage to your vehicle.
As for "real" bumpers, from what I've read it's just added weight that these already heavy vehicles don't need.
If you feel the manufacturers don't "care" then don't buy one, period.
-mike
Paisan: I realize how stupid it sounds to call that a bumper, but according to the crash books, that thin peice of metal is still called a bumper. Pretty sad isnt it?
Anybody heard from mikesf lately...paisan, do you remember him? He rolled his Sorento up in the Montreal area then went through an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE OF HELL trying to get absolution and total address to all of the issues involved in getting his Sorento repaired. I'd like to know that he made out fine with it!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
If you're woried about damage to your front bumper, just don't let your wife drive it!
Ouch ! At -20F this is going to drop further !
Gas in Montreal swings from $2.80 - $3.20 for a US sized gallon (4 liters) these days.
I like my Sorento but I need ajustement time to break me in to these high prices.
-mike
-mike
-mike
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Just look at the crash results from a S-10, Bravada, etc.. You can see the way the car buckles up in that offset crash - not only is the car unsafe, but such a weak body design will surely reduce the longevity of the vehicle in the long run - you know, your typical GM shake rattle and roll feeling you get in a 3-4 year old GM vehicle.
Kile I said, a couple minor changes, and the KIA should be on par with the Toyotas, Hondas, Lexuses, etc... Pretty amazing for a second model year vihicle, and for KIA only marketing cars here for about 10 years now.
It's amazing the quality you can build, and the ability to make changes to improve quality, when you're not hog-tied by the UAW!
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4wd_util.htm
Of note: Notice the QX4 and the Pathfiner. Same basic vehicle, 2 different results. Or the Passport and the Rodeo, or the Bravada and the Blazer.
Could be the way statics are averaged out, amybe
-mike
http://www.kiamotors.com/UVehiclesNewsWeb/KmceVn01_VehiclesNewsRe- ad.aspx?Idx=199
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
So ... stock, this very nice and smooth 30-valve engine has 190 horsepower and 207 ft-lbs of torque.
Adding an ECU chip -- mine is from GIAC -- brings that to 200 hp and (they don't publish figures, so I'm assuming a 1:1 ratio of improvements) 217 ft-lbs of torque.
Other owners have also modified the exhaust and report further gains of about 5%. So let's now say 210 hp and 225 ft-lbs of torque.
Finally -- and I live in California, where this is illegal -- some guys go one step further and modify the intake as well. The stock airbox is supposedly quite well designed, so little gains are seen here -- let's say 5 more each of hp and torque. (Most owners report absolutely zero effect with a simple drop-in K&N filter that replaces the stock; the mod is a cone filter and, in most cases, a heat shield.) So now you're up from:
190 hp & 207 ft-lbs of torque
to
215 hp & 230 ft-lbs of torque
Decent gains, but certainly nothing near what the alleged Sorento modder claims.
Other mad modders have yielded very small additional gain by replacing the fan unit with an electrically powered one -- this actually doesn't boost engine power, but relieves it of a little drain for running the fan.
So I, too, am highly suspicious of the Sorento modder's claims of (if memory serves) 245 and 275, respectively.
But I would LOVE to be proven wrong!!!
High beam - H1
Fog lights - 881
Front turn signal - 2357 or 1157
Front side marker - 168 or 194
Rear turn signal - 1156
Tail lights - 2357 or 1157
Back up - 1156
License plate light - 168 or 194
Yeap! No such info on the manual. You can also find this from Sylvania website. Hope this help.
For the back up, front and rear turn signals, I just have some super white bulbs (I don't remember the name). And I am shopping for the super white fog light bulbs. The stock bulbs are from GE, 881 12v 27w. Some said the Silver Star bulbs don't last that long. And I have a very experience with PIAA on my other car. They last very long but too pricy.
Reason: 1st gear seems to rev up the engine too long before it shifts into 2nd and it gets annoying. Also, any ideas if this would make gas mileage any worse or better?
Give my your thoughts people!!! Thanks.
I'm guessing like you describe, that it is simply a forced lower gear (ie. below D, drive) or higher rpm shift settings.
In that case, there is no need to use it in non-adverse weather, and yes it will affect gas mileage for the worse and possibly shorten transmission life. There is probably a speed limit associated with that mode.
1) Black LX 4x4, 5 speed, Sport package, mats, cargo tray, trailer hitch: $19,600
2) Silver LX, Auto, ABS, mats, alloys, cargo tray, trailer hitch: $21,800
Where I stand:
Option 1: I prefer driving a 5 speed. Love the look of the black on beige interior and the side steps/roof rack that come with the sport package. Also, keyless entry (w/ sprt pkg) is another convenience I really appreciate. Ofcourse, also nice to save $1,200.
Option 2: I also like silver, but don't like the grey interior as much. The ONLY reason I am considering this option though is the ABS. Is it really worth it? My car has ABS and the only time it has come on was when I was horsing around in a parking lot with 6 inches of fresh snow... But then again, its all about that "one" time when it is needed I guess...
Anyway, any thoughts and advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Anybody out there have some feedback on this?
Suggestion: Just like searching for a mate, Don't settle for less than what you want! Anything less, you'll regret in time. Wait for a model you totally want eg; Black, 4x4, ABS, 5spd, Sports Pkg, mats, cargo tray and trailer hitch. Although the trailer hitch is not that important as I've read there are other mfg of trailer hitches that will provide a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs vs the 3,500 rated hitch that comes from the factory. Don't be pressured into buying only stock on hand. Look around, I'm sure you can find what you want at the price you want to pay. This past month has been slow for Kia in my area (SF Bay Area.) and dealers are really willing to deal. Internet deals are selling at $1 over dealer cost. Remember also, there's a $1000 cash back on 2004 models and $2000 cash back on 2003. With those types of cash backs it's easy to get a Sorento at MSRP AND less including Delivery charge, Sales Tax & License. I didn't get mine from the Internet since the dealers price was less. As for myself I got my 2004 Fully Loaded EX 4x2 (don't need 4x4 and why pay more for something I don't need) with ABS, Lux Pkg, Step Bars, Spoiler & Cargo Tray at MSRP out the door (and that includes paying 8.5% sales tax.) The price I paid was about $167 below dealer cost however the dealer did make $500 in hold-back from the mfg. Hold-back is how much the dealer gets from the mfg just for selling their inventory. GOOD-LUCK!