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Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

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Comments

  • whothemanwhotheman Member Posts: 169
    I was beginning to worry about you, Merc.

    I'd rather have a M3 over the 5, though.
  • shoesshoes Member Posts: 131
    I agree that anyone who drives an automatic in a high performance car is missing something wonderful from the driving experience. Unfortunately, I live in a city and spend most of my time driving 20 mph from one stop light to the next and at 50 years old, have grown tired of shifting. What is an old guy to do? I suppose the tiptronic and SMG's were invented for us.

    I recently purchased a Mini Cooper S, which only comes with a six speed. It is fun and reminds me of something I have lost from my driving experience in my automatic equipped vehicles. But I must admit, after two weeks of ownership, I am tired of shifting and will probably flip the car.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Fair enough - besides, I now apparantly have a minor slipped disk and would have had a tough time on the golf course. Hopefully, it won't degenerate to the point I need to get an automatic myself! Have a good weekend.
  • whothemanwhotheman Member Posts: 169
    and drive a stick!
  • shoesshoes Member Posts: 131
    Autoweek confirms that the next E-55 will have the supercharged V-8 but the horsepower output is down from the SL55. Also, factory reported 0-60 times for the E-55 are two tenths of a second slower than the SL55. I wonder how this could be since the E55 must be at least 500 pounds lighter?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I hope they haven't changed anything on purpose to make the E55 slower, because I don't see the big deal if it's faster than the SL55. The E55 should be awfully close to 4 secs 0-60.

    M
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    It could be one of several things. The E55 may not have the same traction, resulting in a little more wheelspin. There might be more drivetrain loss in the E55 due to its (presumably) longer wheelbase. Lastly Mercedes may very well have tuned the gear ratios on the transmission to emphasize low end grunt on the SL55 and high end grunt on the E55.
  • shoesshoes Member Posts: 131
    I hope to have an SL55 before the end of this year. The Autoweek article seem subdued. Maybe the reviewers are getting jaded by all the powerful cars arriving lately- Audi RS6, Phaeton, Porsche 911 Turbo X-10, and so on.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Your first two reasons are highly unlikely, Mercedes' usually don't have traction issues and their wheelbases aren't a factor. The gear ratio theory is most likely the reason.

    shoes,

    What the hell do you do?

    M
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    "Your first two reasons are highly unlikely, Mercedes' usually don't have traction issues and their wheelbases aren't a factor. The gear ratio theory is most likely the reason."

    Pardon me? Please name a SINGLE non-AWD vehicle with more than 250hp that doesn't have serious traction issues when doing best-time launches... when you start to talk about 4-second 0-60 vehicles, controlling wheelspin means *everything*.

    And yes, the wheelbase is a factor insofar as there is parasitic drivetrain loss in a front engine, rear-drive vehicle within the driveshaft. The impact is probably marginal, but it is there. For all we know, the SL uses a lighter, shorter, lower-friction driveshaft that saps less engine power than the longer, heavier driveshaft from the midsize sedan.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Such endless, pointless theories. For all we know this and for all we know that. Gee whiz..

    "Please name a SINGLE non-AWD vehicle with more than 250hp that doesn't have serious traction issues when doing best-time launches... when you start to talk about 4-second 0-60 vehicles, controlling wheelspin means *everything*."

    Why would any carmaker publish a slower 0-60 figure based on seconds lost due to wheelspin? Lawd you can't really be that niave. And your wheelbase theory is about as weak, at a 3.6 inch difference between the two cars. Gearing, gearing and a slight hp difference!

    M
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    "you can't really be that niave."

    Please lay off the personal attacks. Thank you.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Not a personal attack at all, but some of things you come up with I'd have to think you're joking because of their level of ridiculousness.

    M
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    From now on I'll listen to you. Hang on a sec while I tell Mercedes that they can now start using identical rubber on all their vehicles by corrolary of Merc's Law of traction.

    Poor Einstein, smart guy but with you here rewriting the laws of the universe, who needs him.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yet you still try to come up with yet another theory long after the horse is dead. Now it's the tires right? Do you even know what kind/brand etc of tires AMG cars use? Keep proving me right.

    M
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    No, you tell me what tires are used. You're the one telling me that these two very different cars with very different weight balance and axle-level dynamics have identical traction characteristics because you seem to think that your holy Mercedes cannot possibly be confined to the laws of physics that all other marques are held to.

    Go ahead Merc1, prove it. What else can Mercedes do that nobody else can do? Turn invisible? Travel faster than the speed of light? I'm curious as to what other stories a fanatic can make up to prop his favorite brand.... but let me make some popcorn first....
  • whothemanwhotheman Member Posts: 169
    Simon, from "American Idol"? There's a call holding for you on line 2.

    whotheman
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You easily get the "Most Ridiculous Poster" award. You always come up with these left-field guesses and then get sarcastic when they are challenged or even question. You hardly ever make any sense, espeically when it comes to a luxury car discussion. End.

    M
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    I'm sorry, I must have missed something, but what does that have to do with your assertion that the SL55 and E55 have identical traction characteristics on launch? Is this something you read in a magazine blurb? I'm still waiting but take your time, I have plenty of popcorn.

    Oh, and what brand/model/grip rating tires do these two vehicles use? You write like you know, so maybe you can clue me in. Thanks again.

    And for the record, I've backed up everything I've said while you've gotten snippy and sarcastic and defensive. Chill out Merc, it's just a car, not your unborn child we're talking about!! Yes, the SL55 could well be using a much lighter low friction driveshaft, given its shorter wheelbase and higher price point. Yes, differences in weight distribution, camber, center of gravity (which affects lateral stresses on the axle, impacting force distribution at the contact patch of the tires) and many other factors can and probably do result in somewhat different amounts of traction for the two cars on aggressive launches. Yes, the gearing is probably somewhat different. I've offered three perfectly reasonable explanations for why there might be a ZERO POINT TWO second difference on 0-60 times, and all you've done is whine whine whine. Instead of continuing whining, why don't you offer some explanations, facts, theories, ANYTHING of your own, rather than trying to pick a fight because someone suggested that a Mercedes might have wheelspin? Heck, some manufacturers intentionally brake-torque to force wheelspin to get their best auto tranny 0-60 times!! And you call ME naive!!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    When did I ever say the SL55 and E55 "have identical traction characteristics on launch"?
    Even better question....why am I wasting my time(?)

    M
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    "When did I ever say the SL55 and E55 "have identical traction characteristics on launch"?"

    I said: wheelspin might be a factor.

    You said: Mercedes cars don't have any wheelspin.

    Therefore, all Mercedes have identical wheelspin (namely none) regardless of launch method, engine, car design, etc., and I think it fairly follows that since all Mercedes apparently put down infinite gs on the skidpad in order to accomplish this incredible feat, we might as well say that they all Mercedes have the same (namely, infinite) traction.

    Laws of physics? Who needs them when we've got Merc1 and AMG!

    "Even better question....why am I wasting my time(?)"

    Because you're a zealot. You can't help it.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Ok now you're going to tell me what I said right. If you got that "Mercedes' don't have any wheelspin" from what I said you need help. Keep up the idiotic coments.

    M
  • ejerodejerod Member Posts: 86
    Guys.. Guys.. gentlemen.. I'm not a mechanical engineer so I don't know which of you is right. All I know is I own both the 2002 S500 with AMG Sport Package and the 2003 SL500 with the same. All the toys...distronic, tire pressure monitor, parktronic, keyless go, yada yada yada. I'm just happy and feel blessed to be the owner of two of the world's greatest examples of automotive engineering for any price. I also have the Lexus GS300 ( 1999 ) and I still get a kick out of driving that. Not as responsive as the Benz or BMW's ( I don't own a beemer ) but still a great car. I've thought of going out and buying the new BMW 745Li. For years on these boards I've argued with BMW owners and thought they were all on prozac to say " you have to drive one to understand " Well it turns out, they're right. My point is this. If one is fortunate enough to own any of these vehicles, anywhere in the world. Then you're blessed. Life is short. It's challenging, yet wonderful. No need to be right all the time, or to play the mine is bigger than yours game. If you drive anything over 80-100 k.. then you understand that it comes down to personal choice and what pleases you.. not what others think..
  • benznutbenznut Member Posts: 104
    You have my dream garage: an S and a SL, both sport. The onely thing I would change on both of them is the engine size. Twin-Turbo V12 in both of them.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I wonder if the new SL350 is coming here?


    http://www.germancarfans.com/News.cfm?NewsID=2020915.001


    M

  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    If it does, I suspect it will give the Lexus SC430 a lot more competition. I've ridden in both the SL500 and SC430 and I would gladly trade down from a Lexus V8 to a Mercedes V6 in order to get the driving dynamics of the SL over the SC. At roughly the same price(?) it would be a no-brainer for me. For those that prefer supple luxury, the SC430 will probably still fare well.
  • hsteihstei Member Posts: 6
    What are comments regarding dealers and individuals increasing the MSRP by $50,000.00.
    I would like to buy an SL55, however, refuse to get into a bidding war with dealers and individuals who order, wait for delivery and auction at higher prices. Please provide feedback on this topic.
    Also, can anyone advise the planned number of units to be supplied?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah it would be nice to have a SL350, but MBUSA has been run away from selling anything S/SL-Class cars with only a "6" cylinder engine. I really don't understand why, the SL320 and the especially the S320 were good sellers here. It would give more people a chance to experience an S-Class (S350) and SL (SL350), those who don't have to have all the hp.

    hstei,

    The SL55's here are going for 185K without even so much as an eyeblink from the salesman.

    M
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Unfortunately, I think you are at the mercy of capitalism when it comes to trying to get an SL55 at this late date. I have a business associate who is due to take delivery of one shortly at MSRP. But he has purchased several high end Mercedes in the past and immediately put up a deposit on the SL55 when word of it first came out (at least a year ago). He also owns a 2001 Ferrari 360 that he got at MSRP with a similar advanced deposit.

    With high end limited production cars you have three choices: (1) get in 1-2 years in advance with a substantial deposit, (2) wait until they first arrive and pay a substantial premium, (3)or wait 1-2+ years for the hype and price to return to reality.

    I was too slow to do (1), refused to do (2), so ended up doing (3) when purchasing a 2002 M5 this spring. I question those who paid a $20k premium to have the privalege of driving one 6-12 months in advance of me.

    As for my associate, he has already been offered upwards of $40k cash not to take his SL55. His position is the same as with the 360. He doesn't want to make money by "flipping" a car, he just doesn't want to pay a premium to drive one.
  • hsteihstei Member Posts: 6
    EPN2,thanks for comment regarding capitalism. Understood. I too, am a capitalist and am following your strategy. Just this past week the dealer had two new units received, marked "SOLD" and said he would call me after negotiations were
    completed on trade-in with the customers who had ordered and placed deposits. In August the dealer in Atlantic City had five units on the lot asking a $10,000.00 premium. I looked at him and turned around and left. These were SL 500s.
    More of us in the market need to exercise our power and refuse the dealer and criticize the manufacturer.
  • ejerodejerod Member Posts: 86
    I too paid a permium of 10k over sticker for my SL500. Something I swore in the past that I'd never do. ( Never say never huh ? )As I said before, I have all the toys, Distronic, Keyless go, Parktronic, tire pressure monitor, everything except the panoramic roof and opted not to get the phone installed since I already have one in my S500 and really don't think it will be able to be heard clearly with the roof down. I paid 112,000 for it. The only solace I had was when I went back up to the dealership last week when I had nothing better to do and saw a black base model that someone else paid 114,000 for and sold it immediately for 130,000 to someone in Palm Beach Fl... it was a little comforting.. but not much. I enjoy the car immensely and I took out my one pet peave on the dealer customer service survey that Mercedes sent me. I know and understand capitalism well. I'm a capitalist myself.. ah the heck with it.. this car is wonderful.. I haven't had this much fun since my dad bought me my first electric Tyco train set when I was 6 years old.. lol. If you can get one.. it's worth it.. I don't think I'd pay more than 10 over sticker ( they were asking 15k over so I guess I did get a discount ? )... but like I said.. I'm happier than a pig in slop with this car..
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    It's the dealer thats at fault not the manufacturer. MB really can't do anything about what a dealer charges.

    M
  • ejerodejerod Member Posts: 86
    I agree and understand that the manufacturer cannot control dealer markup, especially if market conditions support that markup. But I had a previous bad experience with my first 2001 S500 and wrote MB Chairman complaining about it. The dealer was extremely concerned that I did that and asked me to promise not to write the chairman again when I bought my SL500. The district manager came down and worked out a deal to get me out of the lemon (the 2001 S500 was traded in for a 2002 S500 ) and put me in a new car and yada yada yada. To make a long story short, the dealers get bonus money from the manufacturer as well as brownie points when it comes to ordering hard to get models and other incentives for keeping customer satisfaction high. While I understand that my one low mark on the survey probably won't even make a ripple in the pond, it made me feel better since I gave my word that I wouldn't write the chairman again.. lol.. but in the end.. even though I overpaid and I know it.. it's still a wonderful car and I'm more than satisfied with my decision to buy it...
  • jstylejstyle Member Posts: 129
    I looked on the mbusa.com website at the preowned inventory for 2003 SL and was shocked first at how many there were then at the prices. It seems to me the market has slowed and perhaps dropping prices are in order. I would never pay 10+grand more for a car than will depreciate from that inflated price rapidly in a few years. Regards
  • hsteihstei Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the comments regarding price gouging.
    EJEROD, can you provide MB Chairman's address/email address. I'll give him a piece of my mind regarding HIS dealer network.
    To the other comments, thanks. I will continue to approach dealers in the area until SLs are plentiful and buy at my price not theirs.

    Please continue on this topic. Maybe if we all send messages to MB headquarters they will start producing more units or increase allocations to USA.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I too am a naysayer when it comes to dealer markups on new models. I've sworn I will never pay one cent over MSRP. But I am not fiscally in a position to purchase (or lease) one of these fine automobiles. You're probably going to hear it from many people about how people like you "let" dealers continue to charge over sticker by buying the car. I on the other hand would like to congratulate you on the purchase of a beautiful automobile. You wanted an SL500, You're in a position (financially) to buy one, and the extra $10K probably doesn't meant that much to you, so you bought the car. You never know what is going to happen between now and the time the market for an SL drops to MSRP or below. Enjoy your car! I'm sure you get tons of sunny days in which to enjoy it:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kdudekdude Member Posts: 22
    I've had a deposit for Sl500 for close to 18 months now. Mine is arriving next week. I called the same dealer (not revealing my name) and asked how long the wait is for purchase at MSRP. They no longer take a deposit. There are two in the lot for 117 & 118 each (mine is around 94 at MSRP). I also have a deposit at a different dealer for a SL55 (about 8 months old now). The first dealer won't take a deposit, and is asking 200K for it (they receive 8 a year). I am expecting/hoping for the SL55, sometimes in late 2003, early 2004.

    Is there something wrong with this picutre???
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    "Is there something wrong with this picutre???"

    Yes, obviously I'm in the wrong line of work:)

    Good luck finding an SL. If the market stays strong, you can get the SL500 and probably flip it (for close to or more than what you paid for it) when the SL55 comes in (and you're willing to part with $200,000). Just a thought! The SL is a beautiful car!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kdudekdude Member Posts: 22
    I do not pay over MSRP. $200k is what the dealer wants for SL55 (He is the one giving me SL500 next week after holding a $1k deposit for close to two years). I've had a $5k deposit for about 8 months with another dealer to buy one at MSRP. His "delivery date" keeps going forward in time. I expect to get one late 2003 (If I am lucky).

    It seems now-a-days we need to predict what kind of car we will be driving in two years and plan for it now! Not knowing what cars different manufacturers may bring to the market, adds to the complexity.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I totally agree with you that you shouldn't pay over MSRP for an SL55 AMG. It is nice to see someone with a large disposable income like yourself willing to wait for the car to pay MSRP for it.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • megasuvownermegasuvowner Member Posts: 64
    I just put my name on the list for a black 03 SL500 which i will receive in November. Im paying a delivered price of just under $100k. I am able to recieve my car relatively fast because one of my new friend's parents own a Mercedes Dealership and when i found that out i quickly got him to make arrangements for my purchase. I had my name on a waiting list for a CL600 at another dealership for way too long, and i got frustrated and had my name taken off and my deposit refunded. Im getting rid of my old Testarossa due to lack of driving it in favor of an SL i hope to get more use out of. I love the way how people stare at the new SLs as they cruise around, a very classy car indeed. Everyone tells me im buying too many cars too fast, but i try not to listen to them. In the past year or so ive purchased an Escalade,G500, and my H2 which i picked up on friday. My wife hates me for that, but ill let her drive the SL and get rid of my Escalade soon and hopefully she can forgive me.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Must be nice.

    M
  • ejerodejerod Member Posts: 86
    HSTEI.. I have that address at home in my file cabinet.. I'm at the office now.. I'll look for it and post it in here for all to see. I just found out another bit of disturbing news. A friend of mine that works for the same dealer network that sold me the car told me that Mercedes has SL's lined up at the docks already here in America, but releases them a few at a time to keep demand high. That bites.. but again, capitalism is for the capitalists..lol. In the end, I honestly have no regrets, especially after seeing base model SL's in Robb Report, DuPont Registry, and e-Bay selling for more than what I paid for mine fully loaded. I can't blame the dealers. I'm a businessman myself, and if I owned a MB or other ultra luzury franchise, I'd do the same thing as long as people were willing to pay for it. I'm still happy.. and driving it to much.. miles.. but oh well.. I didn't buy it to look at it.. I bought it to drive it..:)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Anyone know if the SL350 is coming here?

    M
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I believe the last of the V-6 powered SL roadsters was sold here as a 1997 model...I don't think you'll see it again on our shores. The V6 powered SL roadsters have that infamous "sluggish" tag attached to it.

    The price would be way too close to the CLK 55 AMG Cabriolet (now granted that car isn't for everyone). If you want something softer than a CLK 55 AMG, but not as expensive as an SL 500, I'm sure your locar Mercedes-Benz retailer (dealer, center, or whatever they're called these days) will be happy to point you to a CLK 430 Cabriolet (or a CLK 500 Cabriolet next year).

    I don't know...just thinking out loud.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    True, but CLK55 Cabrios are going for 80K, this SL350 would come in at about 70K, just guessing. I think it would work. Lots just want the SL for it's looks and features, not necessarily the hp of the V8s. I think Mercedes should have one more go at a 6-cylinder SL and S-Class in this country, but they new to be with the next generation engine, not the stop-gap enlarged 3.5L version of the current 3.2L V6. There is a new DOHC, 24V V6 coming soon.

    M
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I also read that the next generation of MB engines will be DOHC 4 valves per cylinder (like they used to be and how I think it ahould be). They should show up relatively soon (next 2 years?) because MB always tests new engines in the current body style before releasing them with the new body style.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • benznutbenznut Member Posts: 104
    SL350 may be the only chance for customers to experience a six speed manual transmission in this model.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    Mercedes tends escalates luxury content with engine trim; in that sense I'd wonder about the luxury value of a SL350 if, in addition to engine, it were decontented on interior trim and amenities. Whereas the SL500 is extremely competitive at its MSRP, I'm not sure a SL350 would be nearly as competitive unless the engine were truly the only difference.

    Also, what are the ratings on this 3.5L engine? The SL is a very, very heavy car; what's going to make someone choose it over a SLK320 if the difference is nearly thirty thousand dollars? Yes, the SL would be a better car, but is it that much better? Plus, I remember reading somewhere that the old SL300 was dropped in part because it's higher availability was dragging down dealer premiums on the SL500.

    Personally rather than a SL350 I'd like to see a redesigned SLK with the same powerplant.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    If they do bring the SL with a V6 to our shores, you can bet there will be no available six speed manual transmission.

    sphinx99: I agree with you 100%. You make some excellent points!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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