Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

benznut · September 2002

Why not a manual trans?

MB gave up and offered a manual on the SLK first and then on the C. Very soon, we may see the manuals on the Sl and the new E. This may be part of the whole turning-the-image-around thing.
Now all MB has to do is develop better manual transmissions than the ones they already have. Maybe by taking some advice from their cross-town rivals, BMW.

and this sequentronic thing, what kind of trans is it? Like the one on SL55, or is it an SMG type?

kdude · September 2002

Picked up my SL500 today. Paid MSRP. Another person took delivery of an SL55 while I was waiting for my paper work. He had paid over $174k for it (according to listing on my dealer's monitor)!!
One interesting point: I have a 21 year old son. He drives a 99 CLK430. I offered him my current/previous 2002 Lexus SC430 as a replacement at no additional cost. He drove it for a week, and turned down my offer! I was driving his CLK (it used to be mine for a few months), and I can not blame him. It is simply a differnet experience. I have only driven the SL500 for a couple of hours, but it seems the CLK is sharper. He test drove the new CLK 500 while we were at the dealer and says it offers a "softer" and less agressive drive than what he has! We are considering placing a deposit for a CLK55 (expected delviery next summer - first ones expected this December).

SL500 is not as sharp as I had expected. The total experience is fantastic. The Nav system is no-good. It gave me simpy wrong directions when I was driving it home (told me to go south on two occasions on two different freeways, where my home was way north). I hope I did something wrong, otherwise, I know I can not depend on it. Lexus Nav systems is way way better!

I've also paid 2k for a phone system. You have two choices (here in LA), AT&T or Verizon. The two phone systems are different. You can not change your mind after you buy one, or you are out another 2k!! They are sending someone to my house next Monday to install it.

Also, they no longer take deposit, even on SL500. According to my guy, they are pre-sold for their next two year's allocation!, and they are turning away people offering less than 10k over. I had said before: something is really wrong here.

More later..

kdude · September 2002

http://www.germancarfans.com/News.cfm?NewsID=2020927.001

merc1 · September 2002

Sequentronic is like SMG, a clutchless, converterless manual. They offer it on the C-Class in Europe also.

The SL350 would be a hit here, right now. People want into an SL and the SL350 would be a much cheaper way. When the new SLK arrives (2004) it will share the same engine and that *might* cause a problem with the SL350 as they share the same showroom space after a few years.

The SL350 is rated at 242hp and 0-60 in 7.2 seconds. I seriously doubt we'll ever see a true manual in any SL or E-Class here, sequentronic is about as close to that we'll get, if that.

M

jstyle · September 2002

I just stopped by my MB dealer this morning to see if they had an E500 to test drive. I drove the E320 a couple of weeks ago. I have an E500 on order for an early December delivery. None on the lot to drive, but I did take a new CLK for spin. Not the best effort in my opinion. But the real news was a guy was taking home his SL55 and I got a chance to take a look (everyone at the dealer was drooling) and what a machine. The sound of the engine was incredible! I asked my salesman (a friend) what the guy paid, and he after taking a look around, told me his total with state excise and sales tax was just over $196K...I couldn't believe it. Also the owner of the dealership is talking with VW about a Bentley franchise and I asked about the response to the Bentley GT and the same thing is happening. Long waiting lists and years pre-sold. Even for a car that will come in around $160K...I am doing very fine economically, but wow, there is a lot of money being thrown at autos well above the MSRP something I would never do!

sphinx99 · September 2002

"The SL350 is rated at 242hp and 0-60 in 7.2 seconds. I seriously doubt we'll ever see a true manual in any SL or E-Class here, sequentronic is about as close to that we'll get, if that."

That's quite a bit faster than I thought it would be. Perhaps there's a market for it after all. However, I can see the SL350 becoming a thorn in the company's side when it's time for the SLK redesign. In my opinion, MB should push the SLK away from GT and closer to sport, leaving the GT to the SL.

As for transmissions, I drove a SLK230 with a manual and a 320 with the auto. I liked the auto better. MB seems to have mediocre manuals but best-in-the-world autos.

benznut · September 2002

..is there any chance for this transmission to make it at the more powerful models? ..namely the SL55?
Isn't this transmission a sign that MB may be warming up to the idea of manuals? after all, this is a manual transmission, only the clutch is absent.

merc1 · September 2002

That is very true. MB can't do a good manual to save their lives.

Benznut,

I doubt it, but anything is possible.

M

habitat1 · September 2002

(1) Mercedes has always had great difficulty in matching BMW in the quality and feel of their manual transmissions. Drive a 6-speed M3 or M5 back to back with the SLK320 6-speed and you will see what I mean. To their credit, AMG's automatic transmissions are about the best in the world, performance wise. I have driven the C32 and SLK32 and would put those auto transmissions on par or above the best BMW has to offer.

(2) The SL generally appeals to an entirely different socio-economic demographic than the SLK. The SLK32 will already outperform the SL500 and damn near the SL55 for about 50% and 30% of their respective cost. Few of my "SL" friends have ever seriously looked at the SLK, except as a curiosity. That said, I think an SL350 with decent performance will clearly give the Lexus SC430 and Jaguar a run for their money.

(3) An SL55 for $175k+ is a poster child for "more money than brains". As a old timer who was one of the first owners of a 300SEL 6.3, I know how strong the desire to be first can be. But that premium is going to hold up like a bowling ball in a swimming pool. The SL500 is a nice, slightly overpriced, $90k car. The SL55 is probably worth the $28k MSRP premium over the SL500 (considering other AMG and BMW "M" premiums).

(4) I've taken performance driving courses through BMW and Porsche, and I still can't realistically use more than 80% of the capability of my M5. I wonder how many SL55 buyers paying those premiums could actually drive even a SL500 to its limits? And where? I suspect that an SL55 that gets driven around town is going to have severe engine under exercised health problems in a few years. These are autobahn cruisers that will not hold up well if they never see more than 2,000 rpm at our highway speeds. Just a thought from past experience.

sphinx99 · September 2002

Excellent point epn2. In an effort to stem the premature demise of SL55s, I hereby volunteer to drive your SL55 at very high speeds for health reasons. This service is free of charge (although minor fees may apply). Please be prepared to have your sedentary SL55 delivered to my home in Michigan; it will be put through a rigorous SL55 Basic Training; after three months time, your SL55 will be returned to you healthier than ever before. A complementary car wash will be provided.

All rights reserved. Terms and conditions may vary.

nyccarguy · September 2002

You at least going to give hime one of your Hondas to drive around? LOL!

MBs Automatics are possibly the best in the world. For years, Jaguar has been using MB transmissions in it's high performance, supercharged "R" models because there was nothing in the parts bin that could remotely handle the torque. I believe for 2003, they're using getrag 6 speed automatic transmissions.

epn2: Excellent points!

merc1 · September 2002

I just can't believe anyone would just "give" a dealer all that extra money for any car, including the SL55. It's funny for the prices some payed for the SL500 they could have had a SL55 (at the SL55's MSRP) and for the price some a are paying for the SL55 the could probably get a SLR at it's predicted MSRP.

The only car I see worth paying whatever to get is the Ferrari Enzo. They are going for an even million sheckels around here, ALREADY! The car isn't even due until spring 2003 in the U.S, but the monied are already lined up.

M

nyccarguy · October 2002

I've realized that there are a lot of people (especially here in NY/NJ/CT Tri-State Area as well as all over the country) that just have ludacris amounts of money.

They way some of the $100K plus cars are selling these days, you would think that the economy is getting better (last I checked unemployment was 6% across the country and 8% here in New York State). People paying over sticker for SL 500s & SL 55s, Ferrari production of the 360 sold out for the next 2 years, Porsche 911 sales are up 21% (Boxster sales were down 21%) just proves one thing...the rich just keep getting richer.

Like I've said before here (and I'm sure on another couple of boadrs), I would never pay a dime over MSRP, even if money was no object. I've got patience:)

shoes · October 2002

I too am drooling at the thought of nearly 500 horsepower and all that torque in the SL55. Because of my contacts in the car business (don't ask, I cannot tell), I could buy an SL55 at MSRP, but hesitate to do so.

I bought an E55 and after the initial craziness wore off (which didn't take long) I watched the car's value plummet to near E430 levels. Why don't AMG vehicles hold their value better?

My theory is this: (1)They make too make of them and (2) In the used market, most people assume that an AMG car will be driven hard and therefore less reliable as a used purchase.

Is AMG really going to make 1000 SL55s for 2003? How many people are going to buy $130,000 cars in this economy only to watch them be worth $80,000 in a year or so? What about the people who pay $175,000?

jstyle · October 2002

I completely agree about AMG and the production volume. (too many cars). I've looked at the CL as indicator about MB's aftermarket. Right now used CL500/CL55's are going from the low $80K's to around $130K. This is an incredible difference. Some has to do with the market the cars are sold in otherwise I believe that the preowned prices for this model have collapsed and there are some who haven't realized it and are still asking for the moon. Especially with the dramatic increase in CL55, CL600 HP in the 2003 model the 2000-2002 models should come down even further. I believe the same will happen for the SL500,SL55, and coming SL600 in the next couple of years.

habitat1 · October 2002

shoes: I agree with the two reasons you list as part of the reason that AMG's tend to lose their value.

But in comparing AMG to "M" cars, I think there might be another factor. Most driving enthusiasts that I know, me included, tend to prefer BMW over Mercedes. With an AMG car, you are getting a lot more than just additional horsepower to be sure, but you are also bucking the Mercedes "luxury" image to an extent. With an "M" car, you are getting more of the "driving enthusiast" image which is what BMW is all about. It just seems logical to me that the market, then, for a used E55 is a bit thinner than the market for a used M5. Or at least it's a market that isn't as excited about paying a premium over a nice used E430 as might be the case comparing an M5 to a 540i.

For the record, I owned an original 300SEL 6.3. Spectacular car, for its day.

jstyle · October 2002

Take a look at mbusa's website for the pre-owned cars under the Starmark section. As of today, in southern California there is a dealer that lists a black SL55 for, get this, $242,988! What is the world of higher end MB autos coming too.

merc1 · October 2002

shoes, epn2

You both are right about AMG cars. They do make a lot of them. That 1000 SL55s is just for the U.S. market, 4000 is the total output for the world. That doesn't seem like that many, but I don't know another company other than Ferrari that sells that many 115K+ cars in the U.S.

People who pay 175K for a car, agendas tend to vary. Some sell it to others for MORE money and some just keep it. I don't think it's going to hurt them too bad if they have money like that (to burn).

Another thing with the new SL, and CL is their complexity. These cars are going to be very, very expensive to maintain once that warranty expires.

jstyle,

What you're describing is really normal for the most part, nothing to worry about. Every brand's cars loose a little value when a car is updated or replaced. Since the new SL is so hot the 1990-2002 model just became that much more affordable for anyone wanting one.

M

Mr_Shiftright · October 2002

AMG resale values have, historically, always been pretty substandard in the US. I think buyers just don't want to take a chance on a complex out of warranty car that someone else has probably thrashed. Also, it is only very recently that AMG designs became tasteful.

merc1 · October 2002

I wish AMG would quit with the white (they call it silver) seat and steering wheel stuff, it looks horrible. AMG cars should be available in the regular colors or just make the Designo leather/wood combinations much lower priced option.

M

shoes · October 2002

I agree that AMG needs to refine its idea of taste. Take a look at the BMW M-5- they do some very nice things with the interior (Like leather on the dash, better quality leather seats, better sound system) which says they care about making the car special.

Mercedes was supposed to be setting up a designo center in New York and LA, like in Sindelfingen and here you can select things like granite or marble for the trim pieces. Maybe this is just what AMG needs to spruce up their dreary interiors.

habitat1 · October 2002

When I was in the market last fall, I considered both the AMG C32 and M3. I have a similar opinion as epn2.

The C32 was very impressive, but at the end of a 20 mile test drive, I was already thinking that the driving excitement of 349 horsepower would wear off sooner than would be the case with the 333 hp 6-speed M3. The raw power was intoxicating, but the C32 was only available as an automatic and its handling was a little more luxury than sport oriented. So I found myself asking if it's really worth spending $53k for a super powerful C320 when I would never have bought the C320 over a BMW 330i given that choice. The M3 seems like a more logical extension of the 3-series.

Even my friend who is a Mercedes leasing executive quietly steered me clear of a C32. He claimed that I would get a lot more of my $50k+/- back in 3-5 years by getting an E320 Wagon than I would ever see in resale from a C32 (especially if I put 15-20k miles per year on each).

Back on topic - anyone spending $175k+ on an SL55 is probably doing so for prestige, exclusivity and raw horsepower bragging rights. Nothing wrong with that. But I don't think the SL55 is that much more of a "driving enthusiast's" car than the SL500. Certainly not like a Ferrari 360, 911 Turbo or even, for that matter, an M3 or M5.

I should be so lucky as to have such a choice in the (hopefully not too distant) future.

merc1 · October 2002

You've said that before about the SL55, and I really don't see how you can. The car out- performs most exotics and comes withing spitting distance of the fastest production cars on earth. Auto, Motor und Sport clocked a SL55 at 204 mph, when unrestricted. I've seen reviews in which it was called a better "track" car than the Vanquish or the 575M Maranello. Come on now going from 302hp to 493 has to account for some change doesn't it? Only a manual trans is missing and I understand for some that is a must-have.

M

sphinx99 · October 2002

"You've said that before about the SL55, and I really don't see how you can. The car out- performs most exotics and comes withing spitting distance of the fastest production cars on earth."

The Z06 outperforms most exotics and comes within spitting distance of the fastest production cars on earth, too, but you certainly won't say that's enough for it to be held in the same esteem as a Ferrari 360. If it's not enough for the Z06 to be considered a "driving enthusiast's" car of that level, then what makes it sufficient for a SL55?

I tend to agree with habitat on this. I doubt we'll see a single SL55 at a racing or track event. The majority of them will be treated identically to the SL600 - expensive luxury cruiser for the super-wealthy. And the folks with the cash and a desire for "performance" driving will go with the aforementioned Ferraris, Porsches, BMWs, and so forth. The SL55 does have a lot of horsepower, yes, but so does a Viper, and which one do you think is going to show up on a track? And yes, maybe the SL55 is a better track car than the Vanquish or 575M, but frankly neither of those are going to appear on a track either.

If the SL55 wants to be considered a track car, then it needs to have the reputation of a Z06 or M3 or 360 Modena or 911. I suspect this will be an uphill battle for Mercedes, given the small number of them being made, the number of them being bought for southern california cruising, the automatic transmission, and the car's GT routes.

A good thing for you to look at, Merc, is Mustang vs. Camaro. Frankly, on the "track" the Camaro won every time - bigger engine, better traction. But, there wasn't a lot of driver feedback, you got awful visibility, and so forth, so you weren't really involved in the driving and took it on blind faith that the car would power through that corner rather than fly into the weeds. With the Mustang, you got the better driver connection, so even if it wasn't the Camaro's equal at the limits, it was (a) pretty close and (b) a lot more fun. I think a SL55 vs 360 Modena comes out similar to a Camaro vs Mustang match, in that regard. The SL55 might out-do a 360 Modena, but is it the kind of car that *yearns* to be driven at the redline in throttle oversteer while you feel exactly what the wheels are doing through the steering wheel? To a degree, I'm sure it is. But, I'm not sure it's going to approach the level of fun/involvement you see in some sports cars. From that perspective, the SL55 seems awkward and (to me) unattractive.

I'd rather that Mercedes put that power and trick suspension into a dedicated sports car. Give me a two-seat hardtop coupe, a la Porsche 911, without the parking assist, give me a manual, give me 400hp in a body that weighs 3300lb or less, and get rid of some of the sound deadening and leather and wood, and *then* you'll have a car that sucker-punches Ferraris and Porsches. Until then, the SL55 is a car that will sucker punch Aston Martins and supercharged Jaguars.

habitat1 · October 2002

I understand your point, but I think we all agreed a while back that the SL500 wasn't designed or intended to be a "sports car". With an extra 190 horsepower, the SL55 can certainly take top speed honors from just about anything out there, but that still doesn't change its intrinsic position as a (ultra) luxury roadster, in my book.

The lack of a manual transmission and curb weight of roughly 1,500 lbs more than a 360 Modena suggest to me that it's not going to be purchased by someone looking for a highly visceral "fun to drive" car. Unless you happen to live near the Bonneville Salt Flats, I can't think of where you would come close to ever using the SL55's 490+ horsepower in the U.S. It's not like the 300+ in the SL500 isn't reasonably sufficient for a luxury roadster.

By contrast, the difference of an M3 over a standard 3-series would show up in my everyday driving. The handling through some twisty park roads I drive, the super crisp 6-speed manual, the higher revving engine which shows its unique character at reasonably legal speeds, etc.

Perhaps my definition of what I find "enthusiastic" about driving is different from yours and other prospective SL55 buyers. And that's fine. I may not buy it over a 360 Modena, 911 Turbo, or even an M3 for "fun", but I can't think of anything I'd rather have than an SL for 2-seater "luxury" in my garage. Whether I would pay a $100k horsepower premium for a SL55 over a SL350 is another matter. But I have a while before I would need to make that choice!

For the record, I am not suggesting that AMG make any changes to the SL55 whatsoever. For what it is, it is clearly without equal. If someone would rather have a Ferrari, Porsche or BMW, they can buy one of those. But there is no reason for AMG to change what they do best. On the contrary. Just because I might no buy it, doesn't mean I don't hold in the highest esteem and respect.

merc1 · October 2002

Ok, I agree with that and truly understand what you're saying. I guess what gets me about the SL55 is that no Mercedes in modern times has ever even been mentioned in the same sentence with Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini when speaking about performance, that in itself is such a huge accomplishment for staid, old Mercedes-Benz. Car and Driver has a review of the SL55 in the November issue, and their only complaint was weight (4411 lbs to be exact). I, like them would love to see what the SL55 could do with a 1000lbs less weight, but then it wouldn't be a Mercedes.

sphinx99,

Normally I'd dismiss your points without a thought, but you're making good sense here. I see what you're saying about the Z06 and it not being held in the same reguard as a 911 Turbo or 360 Mo-dee-nah. The SL55 will match numbers with a 360 or 911 Turbo any day of the week, but the way these cars go about the business isn't the same. BTW, I do consider the Z06 a track/enthusiasts car, its other things that keep it off Ferrari/Porsche buyers list, not sheer performance.

Of course the hefty SL55 isn't going to provide the breath-taking roller coaster ride like a Ferrari when it comes to cornering and such, I agree. I don't think the SL55 is aiming to be a "track car", Automobile Mag just pointed out that it was better at that task than some of the other big-engined heavyweights of similar puropse. "Until then, the SL55 is a car that will sucker punch Aston Martins and supercharged Jaguars." Hey, long as other luxury cars are "sucker-punched" I'm happy, cause that is what the SL55 and SL500 for that matter, are luxury cars with outstanding performance (SL55).

M

shoes · October 2002

Can you guys help me understand the rationale for the SL55- I am sure it works great on the German autobahn where the roads are perfect and the drivers stay out of your way.

I live in the San Francisco Bay area. I drive on mountain roads when I go to the Napa Valley and I drive on city streets and some highways.

The SL55 weighs too much to be much fun in the mountains. The suspension is too punishing to be much use in the city (plus nothing like the frustration of having to drive 25 MPH with 500 ponies under the hood). So every once in a while I can accelerate to 140 MPH on the highway and risk being sent to traffic school for the rest of my life.

Is the SL55 simply designed for having bragging rights with all that power?

ejerod · October 2002

Hi people, someone asked me to post the address of MB headquarters. Well here you go:

Mr. Jurgen E. Schrempp
Chairman of the Board
Daimler Chrylser AG
70546 Stuttgart Germany
Tel:+49711 170
Fax:+49711179022

I wrote the man when I had some problems with my first S-Class. Of course the dealer wasn't too happy with that knowledge. I'm still a Mercedes advocate. I love the cars. Shoes, to answer your question, in America it doesn't make sense to own anything high performance unless you are willing to spend the rest of your life in defensive driving courses, or selling whatever assets you own to pay the fines associated with the reckless driving citations you'll receive. The reason I bought the SL500 and the S500 w/AMG is the looks the feel and overall build quality. On occassion I've gotten them both up to 100+ mph. The logic behind my buying them is simple. If these cars are built for safety and sheer performance at autobahn speeds they will last me a lifetime at 70mph and the occassional 100mph+. This is why I find them to be great values. Quite a few of my neighbors own older MB , SL's and SEL's etc, from the 60's and 70's and they are the original owners. Some of them own other makes as well. ( I'm the baby in my neighborhood..lol ) After talking with them I find that they still have a sense of pride and joy when they talk about these cars. None of them are willing to sell them at any price and are quite happy with them. These cars still look and drive like the day they were purchased. Wisdom I gleaned from the elders.. make thy purchase sure and with great trepidation. But once you've made the decision, move quickly and appreciate the gifts and they will last a lifetime....happy motoring everyone.. keep the board moving..

merc1 · October 2002

I would think the same would apply to a any Ferrari, Porsche 911TT, Lamborghini Mercielago, Corvette Z06 or anything else with 400+ hp, there is no place on U.S. streets to use any of these cars to their full potential. Whats the difference between a 575M and a SL55 when it comes to them being useful or not? They're all ridiculously fast. I can't see the SL55 being any more "punishing" on the street than any Lambo, Ferrari or 911 TT, come to think of it should be more comfortable than any other car of the same power/price considering it's a SL.

There is no "rationale" for any of these cars the way I see it.

M

thor8 · October 2002

Can you explain again to some people that all that race stuff is nothing but hype, that is why Benz in their wisdom build their cars the way they do.

THE US IS A 70 MPH COUNTRY!!!!

Not long ago I was cruising in Tennesee in my Porsche and I came along a yellow Ferrari, we vaved at each other and kept along with the trucks, sometimes I got ahead a few vehicles and sometimes he got ahead a few, I was thinking how moronic the situation was but nothing I can do about, I am ticket whiped and reticketed and all that track talk is easier on the mouth than actually getting on it, I joined the PCA and I know some of the owners of a local track but is not that easy to get on it and make a few laps, is more trouble than whats worth, I dont know what I will be doing or where I will be on Dec 9th at 2,45 pm to take a couple of laps nor will I worry about.

So yes, it all comes down to bragging rigths, bluffing and show and an occasional ligth to ligth show.

benznut · October 2002

To tell you the truth, I don't think so! It weighs as much as an S600 sedan, and truly, it may not be a lot more fun to drive (not that a 500hp S Class isn't any, I imagine). Fact is that the only time you may see the worth over a regular SL500, is when you stab the throttle and leave a huge smoke cloud behind you, and frankly to me that isn't the favorite thing to do.

So, why would anyone want xx55 or xx600? because the damn MB offered them, period. How can you not want one, or dream about a SL55 or SL600? The problem is that we know they exist, period. If we didn't I would be just as content, and get the same use out of an SL350, for God's sake. To put it in an analogy: If someone offered you to choose between two checks in his or her hands, one of them for $6 million, the other for $600M, which would you rather take? either one is sufficient to lead a comfortable life if invested properly (just don't spend it all in one car company ;-))
Then again, it is cool to know you can be listed in the Forbes 400!

ejerod · October 2002

The truth is we're all still kids at heart. The difference is now we can pay for our own toys and gladly do so if a manufacturer taps into that place that none of us can define but we all are familiar with. This is what Benz has done. How many of us sat glued to a tv set or at a game to watch Jordan do his magic with the basketball ? How many of us as kids pretended to be Superman or Batman or James Bond ? The SL is the closest thing to the Batmobile or Bondmobile ever offered to the buying public. I bought it not only for the looks and not only " because I could " but for all the gizmos. Come on, the fastest automated hard top drop top ever built. The first truly brake by wire system. Distronic, Parktronic, tire pressure monitor, keyless go, the kitchen sink as well as the range..etc.. and for a fee I can have a guy hook up a cappacino machine too.. lol. This is why we pay the money. Sure we gripe, but we gripe while writing the check. I was so happy to get the darned thing that as the salesman ( who happens to be the father of a former business associate of mine) was trying to do the walk around to explain the features, I told him move.. let me go.. just show me how to drop the roof and I'll read up on everything later.. lol. Did I pay too much? Of course.. was it worth it ? I'd do it again today if I had to..How many of us had Lionel trains we got for Christmas and just abused them, not knowing that 30 years later the things would have a value equivalent to a small nations GDP..lol money is but a tool to accomplish one's purpose and goals in life.. and these cars are built for us to enjoy life just a bit more....

thor8 · October 2002

Like they say, The difference between a man and a boy is in the price of the toy.

When I was a boy I had a little truck that I would push in the mud and grunt all afternoon imitating the engine sound until I had a sore throat, today I have my toy truck too, a Unimog where I spent over 30,000$ to restore like new.

free707 · October 2002

I have an (MSRP) SL500 coming in a few weeks that I have had on order for 2.5 years. After all this time, I am on the bubble as to whether I really want it.

Should I drive it a couple of weeks just for fun and sell it? Wht do you think it would actually go for (I see a lot of askers at $105-115K, but I can't tell if they really sell for that premium)?

Buy it and flip it without leaving the showroom? What do you think THAT's worth?

Just walk away?

Would appreciate any wisdom from this group. Thanks.

habitat1 · October 2002

What is your price for the car? MSRP, I presume?

Do you have the option of assigning your contract without taking delivery - and paying sales tax, etc.? If you do, that would be the best way to go in my opinion. On the other hand, most dealers would not want to have you show up with another buyer, knowing that you would be flipping the car for a profit of 2-3 times what they are getting. Most require you to take delivery or the contract is cancelled. In the case of my M5, they even retained the deposit of the original purchaser, because he had requested some special order options and then decided to default on the deal.

One other option is to quickly form a single purpose LLC and take title to the car in the name of the company. You should then be able to sell the company to someone else, without having to retitle and register the car, itself. You will be liable for income tax on the capital gain on the profit from the sale of the company. But, technically, the profit on the sale of a personal vehicle is also taxable. I am NOT an accoutant, so check with yours.

One thing I would advise against on most cars is driving it for a few weeks or months and then trying to sell it at a premium. In the case of the SL500, the demand may still substantiate a premium after you use it. But that next buyer is going to have to be comfortable with buying a car that will be a two owner car when he/she goes to resell it.

If you are absolutely certain you don't want the car, look into assignment or the LLC options. If you are uncertain, take it and drive it. You may not make as much of a "premium", but at least you won't have "seller's remorse" for not at least enjoying it.

Good luck.

gigisqrd · October 2002

I have a holding deposit on a MSRP SL as well. 7 mo gone and 6 more to go. I think the car is impressive but the price is a stretch. I also think they will tweek the brake feel and go to DVD nav,etc in a year or so. Curious as to your reasons for bailing?

shoes · October 2002

I owned a 2003 SL500 for two months and sold it for a profit, not because I wanted to but because I disliked the car. The brakes and the build quality were annoying and the performance was boring because of the weight.

If they fixed the brakes, improved build quality and tweaked the power delivery, it would work for me and hopefully by 2004 these changes will all happen.

free707 · October 2002

Yes, my price is MSRP. But, I am uncertain about my "rights" to assign the contract to another buyer. I should probably consult an attorney, but I don't see anything in the deposit agreement that prevents me from assigning it. As far as I can tell, I have a contract that confers certain rights to me and I should be able to sell or give those rights to another qualified entity. In the case of your M5, did you conclude that the dealer was legally right to enforce delivery to only you; or did you just not push the issue?

I had actually considered forming a partnership for buying the car, but an LLC would probably be just as easy and be easier to sell. My concern would be limiting the market of buyers to someone who would be willing to take that approach.

It might cost a few thousand $ to drive it a week or two, but you're dead-on about the "sellers remorse" - better to be like Shoes and try it and know whether I really want it or not.

If I bail, it will simply be a matter of cost-benefit. I have the money, but that doesn't mean I can be frivolous with it. If it were a killer car in performance, detailing, awe-inducement, universal hosannas, then I would go for it. But, although wonderful, I think it falls short of these criteria. And I have to believe the premium, if any, will fall fast next year.

Any opinions as to what the real premium is (i.e. how much I can sell it for in Nov-Dec 2002)? My gut is that nearly-new, it would be about break-even. If I drive it a couple of weeks, probably a $5k loss. Just guessing.

habitat1 · October 2002

I bought my M5 at a discount after the original purchaser defaulted on a special order. The dealership gave him a final 3 day notice to pay for and pick up the car, but when he did not show up, they kept his $7,500 deposit and passed most of it on to me. I have bought several cars from them in the past and they knew I could pay cash on short notice. The original deal was not explicitly assignable, but the original purchaser didn't even try. For the record, the original purchaser was a sleezy character who pulled the same type of stunt at a nearby Porsche dealership less than a year earlier. The BMW dealership found out about that too late, but were prepared to stick it to him when he defaulted this time around. My BMW dealer indicated it was only the second time he could remember retaining a deposit on a cancelled sale. Lucky me!

In the case of your SL500, I would not assume that a contract is assignable. I know in business law, the assignment is an assumed right in some states, but in others, must be specified in writing. Check with your attorney.

Regarding the LLC alternative, you can still sell the car directly to someone, if they are at all skittish about buying the LLC. It's just that you/they will have to re-title and re-register the car and pay the related fees and taxes a second time.

The "premiums" in our area for an SL500 appear to be $20k over MSRP on the "asking" price. I have no idea what they actually go for, but my guess is $10-15k. Not a hell of a lot, if you have to pay double sales tax.

ejerod · October 2002

In my market.. (Virginia) most of the cars are going for no more than 10 k over MSRP. Depending on where you're trying to sell you should be able to get what you want with a few miles on it. I've seen at least 3 advertised in Du Pont Registry with up to 2k miles, and they were still asking 15-20k over MSRP. As far as the market goes, I don't think that the demand will end that soon. There are still people waiting. I was at a Lexus dealership Saturday on business and a lawyer from one of the largest most prestigious firms in the state drives across the highway just to get a closer look. He's been waiting over a year and I've met many more like him. SL owners that own older models, professionals athletes ( Bruce Smith lives near me, he's been on the list for nearly 2 years now and is still waiting.) As long as MB keeps production low the demand will remain for quite some time. One thing I do know, in spite of what the market or economy does, the wealthy always seem to land on their feet and will always be willing to pay for what they want, price be darned....

dschmidt4 · October 2002

I ordered mine last December and was told I could have one by June, at a premium. I told the dealer I would not pay a premium. He then said September, then Novemeber, and then October (it arrived today, 10/19). I paid MSRP (cash), so if it develops first model year problems, I'll trade it in on a newer model year in a year or so. (I live in Central New Jersey, along the shore.)

sphinx99 · October 2002

Congrats!

Now tell us about the car.

kdude · October 2002

1) Solid feel & ride
2) Good power to count on when needed
3) Distronic works great, except it "loses" it target car on curves!
4) The phone system and voice commands work fantastic.
5) Nav system sucks! (Sorry. I just hate it). I am used to what Lexus gave me which was much much better.
6) Still don't know how to turn off the cd/radio, and keep the phone alive! (have not read the manual yet). Let me know if you do.
7) Overall a pleasure and worth the price.

03white · October 2002

I have a white sport arriving the end of the month and will be paying MSRP. I placed a deposit in April 01 and at the time was in the mid-teens on the order list. I live in the Oklahoma City area and understand there is still a year plus wait.

w210 · October 2002

>6) Still don't know how to turn off the cd/radio, and
>keep the phone alive! (have not read the manual yet).
>Let me know if you do.

Press the Tel button and press the mute key..

kdude · October 2002

You are right. Thank you.

w210 · October 2002

You're most welcome.

COMAND in our SL is a huge improvement over the one in the CL and way better than iDrive.

I never have the chance to test out the navigation on a Lexus but the stereo is pretty amazing.

I think the more you drive the SL, the more you would enjoy the solid feel and excellent handling compared to other convertibles. The handling of the SL beats all other AMG cars I have driven.

By the way, I figured out a convenient neat trick with the SL. First you should program one of the three memory positions to move the seat all the way back and the steering wheel all the way up away from you. I have position 3 for this purpose.

After you have parked your car, do not turn the ignition completely off, leave it at position one, then recall seat memory position 3. After the seat has moved back, you then open the door and remove the key. Lock the car as usual.

Next time you unlock and put the key in to start the engine, the seat will move back to your previous driving position.

I find the above much more useful than the default convenient in/out setting as I want the seat all the way back when I get in and out. The factory automatic setting only allows the seat to move back a couple of inches whereas my discovery will let you move the seat anyway you want.

I hope the above makes sense to you. Happy motoring!

ejerod · October 2002

Hey thanks.. I hadn't gotten around to reading the manual either, but I do recall from the brochure I received prior to buying the car that you could program the seats to adjust to individual drivers using the keys. So for example, if my wife drives the car, when she unlocks the door, the seats , mirrors etc, will automatically adjust to her. I was wondering how you do that.. thanks a lot.. E

hstei · October 2002

Recently I indicated my displeasure at paying a premium for a new SL. Everyone wanted 10, 15 or 25k more than MSRP.
Well, without a deposit at the dealer for 18 months I received a call on Tuesday last week, drove to the dealer Wednesday and picked up my new SL Friday afternoon.
My reason for saying this is if we all stick together and refuse to pay premium, the dealers will contact us.
Now, for those wanting one now I would like to hear from you.

Regards

habitat1 · October 2002

Congratulations! And you are right on with your advice.

I have just been called by my dealer about a gentleman who is about to receive an SL55 that he doesn't want. He offered to assign the deal to me for $10,000. It's a loaded car with all the goodies, with an MSRP of about $128,000. So $138k isn't cheap, but that is still a far cry from the $175k+ some previous posters indicated the car had been going for. When I spoke with the contract purchaser why he wasn't trying to get more, his response was that he wants to sell the car NOW, before it comes in and the supposedly big premiums aren't holding up. He had a previous deal to sell it for $150k, but the buyer never came through with a deposit.

I haven't decided, but it is unlikely that I will go for it, if anyone else is interested.

P.S. Another interesting fact is that the "TMV" prices listed on Edmunds for all of the hard to get AMG, "M", Ferrari and Porsche models are equal to the MSRP, not a penny more. The only car that appears to still carry a TMV premium above MSRP is the Honda S2000.

Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)

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