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Mercedes-Benz SL and SLK (all models)
mbdcasey
Member Posts: 2
until MB releases our new SL 500 from the docks in Maryland.Our dealer pirated us in to see the car at a MB training session at a local hotel, wow, everything the pictures portrayed it as.Ordered a year ago from a faxed order sheet from the factory, seemed a little odd to order a $100K car from a fax, but that's MB, alittle quirky.Next week the dealers see the car at Boca, then us mere mortals get our hands on it.Any one else waiting? Any one interested in our 2001 CL 500?
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Said disguised car turned out to be the new W211 E-Class, however, sitting right next to it (undisguised, but hidden from street view by a couple of bushes) was a new 2003 SL500 in silver with a light gray interior. This car is absolutely gorgeous, inside and out, to my eye, it is the best-looking SL ever. Not that I am currently in the market for such a car (price wise or practicality wise), my only complaint about this car is the transmission. I know this is a personal thing (and maybe a few decades of psycho-therapy will help ;-)), however, I still prefer to stir my own gears, and I gotta tell y’all, to me, that car just cries out for a 6-Speed manual gearbox.
MBDCasey,
Congratulations on your new ride, I trust you will enjoy it to its fullest.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I did inquire about this car 2 years ago, and placed a verbal order which they said was as good as a deposit, so another reason why I was able to get it as quickly as I wil be able to.
More to follow.
I arranged European delivery for mine on my birthday next month and cannot wait to open it up on the Autobahn.
I agree with a previous post that the SLK32 is looking quite good about now, in a different sort of way.
When you get the opportunity to see the new CLK in an upcoming show and can experience the design in 3-D, then offer your thoughts...
The cars are good enough to stand on their own merits and handle the criticism without flinching. Maybe the owners should be as well.
I'm the 1st to offer praise to any other marque for values they do well... including the Volvo C70, which our Toyota friend mentioned in a negative connotation relative to the new CLK. I even see the value and uniqueness of the new SC430. Heck of a vehicle, but more my wife's cup of tea than my own. Take a pill and relax...
"I even see the value and uniqueness of the new SC430."
You see a lot more than I; I only caught the "uniqueness". While I hardly think the C70 is trying in any way to be a Mercedes, or vice-versa, I can't say the same of the SC430. Now, if you'd said the SC "ain't no Mercedes," I'd just have to sit back and nod agreement in silence.
Oh, and I don't use pills. Bottle of Absolut in the freezer seems to work just fine. Matter of fact, I think I'll head that-a-way right now!
For Example...
You guys are #$%!** petty little bitches.
May seem like I am being an A-hole, but...
You guys are #$%!** petty little bitches. ;D hahahaha
is obviously a light hearted little jest...
well maybe not.
You get the point anyway.
Now you think the SC430 is a better car than the '03 SL500? or was it the CLK430? Either way you have done nothing more than make yourself look foolish by suggesting that. the SC is a boutique car, very pretty (to some eyes), but connnot hope to compete against the SL500. The CLK is not a good comparison as it has real rear seats unlike the SC. Either way the MBs stomp the Toyota IMO.
If anything was copied it was Lexus who did the copying. BTW, the SC430 isn't anywhere near being on the same level as the SL500, yet alone "better". And Automobile picked the CLK430 Cabrio over the SC430 also a few months back, since you want to go there.
M
I think Lexus has other weapons that are more devastating. Clearly, no one has been able to tap into the (again, stand alone) design qulities of the GS. I believe the new 7-series is aping (unsuccessfully) some of its idiosyncracies. And if BMW isn't frightened at all by the IS300, well, they should be.
As far as the SL500 goes, retractable hard tops seem to be the lux coupe oyster just now, though I've never cared that much for the concept. The SL accomplishes everything that the SC tried to, but with style, grace and just plain "oomph" that the SC, in its current iteration can't hope to match.
The problem here is commenting on performance without having driven the SL. So, at this point, I'll just have to say I'd much rather have the SL in my garage, so that I can come out late at night and just stare at it, than the SC. By a long shot.
Price. I think it's kind of silly to pay a premium for first shot at this little beauty. I've never really understood the "first one on the block" attitude, when it comes to paying extra. Every time I see some new model commanding premiums (premia?), I'm reminded of the introduction of the digital watch. Remember those guys who spent $400 bucks for the first Pulsar watches? But that's just me.
I'd like to see a Lexus exotic, the NSX of Lexus just to see what the company could do.
LS430 is a winner, but I still think they're aiming at Mercedes, not quite hitting the mark, and scoring points in spite of themselves.
In this class, I'd still rather park the SL500 in my personal garage. That or an XKR. Hmmmmm.
Anyway, my sticker was $91,500 which included the comfort package, wood package, bi-xenons and maybe one other option. I placed my order more than a year ago, so there was no mark up.
There seems to be quite a few designo editions in the first shipments to all the dealers, which are $10K more than the others. Also, Mercedes, which had been pressuring dealers not to mark up cars, seems to have relaxed this restriction. My dealer told me that the first car they sold went for $30K more than MSRP. Forget about the SL55, those cars when they arrive in the late summer, will be very rare and probably sell for $50K over.
I spent time in the new car and was very impressed with the attention to the details, with only a few slip ups. The HVAC dials look like they are right out of a Chrysler and the plastic shroud over the speedo is cheap (the SL55 covers this in leather). However there are so many other positives about this car, I feel very happy that I am getting one.
While I am tempted to beat every SC430 I see with a baseball bat, I have to say that it is one of the FIRST cars from Lexus that attempts to step out and take charge in styling and concept. For that I give them a thumbs up. Now try again.
The new SL500 continues this trend with cheap looking details a big no no in this price car. Center console doesn't even have leather console lining like the SC or the rich brushed metal HVAC stereo surround. Audi still has much nicer interiors than these new benzes of today. This all new car still uses an old SOHC engine design.
For this price give me an NSX anyday handbuilt, super high quality, much rarier bargain priced exotic. Mercedes also copies Lexus details as in the door hinges of the big CL Coupe are straight off the old SC coupes. One hellva durable design for a door hinge though. Don't think M.B. doesn't study Lexus as did Lexus M.B. for 8 years developing the 1st LS. Lexus also pioneered multiplex wiring which is the most reliable design in electrical systems.
Lexus will hit M.B. again with a big V-12 ultra sedan in a few years and all new high perforance models of the GS sedans with 4wd. The boys in Tokyo want to be number 1 and the boys in Stuttgart will surely feel the heat.
German cars have never been about obstentation. They are all business, sometimes even humorless in their obsession with function over form.
The history of both Lexus and Mercedes as we know them today actually goes back to Cadillac, of all places. Cadillac, in the 1950s, showed the world that one could mass-produce a quality car in enormous numbers. Mercedes took a hard look at this and basically blew Cadillac out of the luxury market. Then in 1990 Toyota took a hard look at Mercedes and made a brilliant transition into the luxury car market itself. I'm sure that the LS400 was not wanted German car makers wanted to see!
But that doesn't mean that either Cadillac or Lexus IS, therefore, a Mercedes. In some ways, either car can excel a Benz in certain areas, no doubt about it. GM and Lexus engineers are not stupid people.
But overall, in all the details, the Benz is still "engineered like no other car in the world" and no amount of pretty little details or avant garde styling is going to dethrone them.
Mercedes reputation is at the end of the wrench, not in the marketing department. The company still delivers on its promises, even if the days of silver-plated trim and rosewood tea tables are over for all automakers competing in mass-produced markets.
I think I know the one you mean. It uses three valves per cylinder, two spark plugs per cylinder and a magnesium intake manifold with two stage ressonance. Sounds like a pretty outdated design to me (right!).
I also like your thoughts on "rich brushed metal". You mean the stuff on the dash of my old '77 Trans Am, right? That is much richer than real wood.
Keep dreaming, MB remains the standard of the world.
I just wanted to inject this into the "so-and-so innovates and so-and-so clearly just copies" discussion.
PS: Nobody really has to do this. It's rhetorical. I'm just making the point that it would be hard to think of anything, whereas with Benz being copied the list is pretty long. Right off, I can think of the "little armchair" electric seat adjuster (law suits flew on that one) , the multilink rear suspension, the grillework, the trunk lid (just about everybody got that one!), the use of ohc V8s in luxury 4-doors, the "look" of the interior/console area, the middle sun visor (recent Audi rip-off of Benz idea) , the entire S series concept (which is what the first Lexi and Infinitis were).
I'm sure there's tons more. Even the ABS and ESP stability systems you find on many cars (their own versions) today were premeried on Mercedes-Benzes (1978 and 1995). ABS comes from the German "antiblockiersystem."
I'm not suggesting that they aren't using MB (and now BMW) as a benchmark, but at least those two examples had seemingly independent style.
As far as technical innovation goes, this not now, nor has it ever been a key to Japanese success. Refinement of other's technologies and the processes by which they are utilized, has been the MO.
Still, one can't say that at least, oh, Honda hasn't presented the world with some significant engineering, IMO.
HONDA--Honda is the exception to the rule of the generalization that the Japanese copy and refine rather than innovate. I think the reason Honda is different is due to their vast motorcycle and substantial racing experience.
If Honda punched into the upper luxury market (unlikely) I'd lose sleep if I made cars in Germany.
You can compare the trim inside to anything you want knock yourself out, compare it to my old Nikon camera with brushed trim but it still reeks of higher quality ambience than anything Benz and has lots of fine wood to go along if that's what one wants.
One who arrogantly underestimates the Japanese automakers is one who pays the price just like the Big 2.5 Brass did and were squealing like little piglets after when marketshare went bye bye in the 80's. This is what the Germans did exactly in the late 80's.
When Benz takes Lexus's place as number 1 in quality surveys, dealer satisfaction and realibility than I'll bow down and say their number 1. Go to finestsedan.com and see all the cars tested.
Personally, I don't think you've driven a new Mercedes in 20 years. Could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like.
Saturn has higher dealer satisfaction numbers than Lexus BTW, and I believe Buick topped Lexus in CS.
The NSX is not an exotic by choice, IT SIMPLY DOESN'T SELL! Acura would love to import more of these, but time passed it by long ago. Why would Mercedes study Lexus that hard, they only be looking at their own work!!!! Also the CL's door hinge is a BETTER design than the SC's.
I do agree with you about Audi. They make the best interior of any German car. The A4 shames the C-Class and the 3-Series in the materials/styling/layout game. The A6 and A8 have about the best interiors around.
Mercedes aren't made based on wood, leather and aluminum. The guts of the car is what most appeals to me.
And that test that AMCI did was pure BS at it's best. Lexus asked for the test. I can configure a test with specific criteria that will show that a Hyundai Sonota is a better car than a ES300. That test means nothing.
M
M
D'oh!
If you wish to praise Lexus, there are many other topics to do so. This topic is primarily to discuss the pros and cons of this particular car, not other makes.
Most conservative companies, like Benz, do not take huge styling risks. They really don't have to. They keep pushing the envelope, but slowly, making sure there is plenty of continuity between old models and new.
So my point is don't confuse conservative styling as being "behind the times" technologically. Mercedes is definitely not like Harley Davidson, another very conservative company (ironically). There is a complete rationale behind the CLK, and the SL and all the other models, in terms of corporate heritage and goals. If looks like a Benz and performs like one, Mercedes has met their goal.
And the SL 500 certainly looks like an SL, there's no mistaking it. The SC430 looks like an Audi, not like a Lexus. Maybe that's okay, if that's what Lexus intended. :You can't sell cars only on quality. If that was all it took, I can think of about 10 prosperous makes that would be out of bsuiness right now.
M
This I'll agree with. Lexus has awkward styling, the Germans are all afraid of CD players, and American offerings seem to lack the build quality. The perfect convertible hasn't been made yet. Maybe Acura or Infiniti can get it right. (In fact didn't Infiniti nearly hit a bullseye in the early 90s?)
In the meantime you have to admit, the SL500/SL55 is about as close as you can get to the perfect convertible.
No convertible is perfect true, but Mercedes is the best there is at Luxury convertibles. Only Ferrari and Porsche build one any better.
Your theory about the CLK having the market to itself in 1998 is just an excuse, it isn't Mercedes' fault Lexus was late to the drop-top-luxury party. You can't be serious of blaming Mercedes for quote "taking advantage of the market".....hello(!)....that is the purpose of building and selling cars. The Japanese are masters of this, as well. If you're seriously stating that as a reason for the CLK's success, then you've lost all of what little credibility you had with me. And just an FYI the first CLK cabriolet didn't come out until 1999, that being the CLK320. The 430 Cabrio followed in 2000.
To top it all off now you're claiming that safety features aren't important??? Better leather, but no rollover protection?? Right?? Better Nav system, but no thorax airbags??? Lets have a creaky body, but a better sound system to drown out the cowl shake??
I've said this before and I'll say it again. CD players, Leather and Nav systems are not what a Benz make.
The SL's premium over the SC430 is clearly visible by glancing at the SL's equipment list. New generation technology costs money.
Try again, you're arguement is dust.
M
M
Close to perfection != perfection though. I think some of toyotas1's comments are off base, however at this point I don't think there is any excuse for cars of this calibre to not have DVD nav systems or in-dash changers.
A SL55 with a slightly prettier front end & more up-to-date audio and nav would be the perfect convertible IMO. Which means that MB is really really close. Fix a couple of things and cut the price by about 80% so that I can afford it, and I'll be all over it.
M
If you aren't interested in what you can't see, buy a Lexus. No argument from me. You can have a fancy CD player or you can have ASC, ESP, ASR and ABC from Mercedes.
If you want the most technologically advanced car in the world, there is no other choice at the moment.
This isn't to say that the SC430 is a better or equal car to the SL500, I haven't driven either, much less sawed either of them in half. However, I don't think any of us can claim that the MB absolutely *does* have a greater degree of overengineering than the SC430 unless we've done our fair share of time inside the SC430 as well.