Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
The extra cargo space at the rear with "fold-into-the-floor" 3rd row seating is NOT worth the inconvenience of placing the spare underneath the van where it is now located with Stow and Go.
Four adults and 2 children can travel in our 2002 T&C and take ALL the luggage, clothes, and snacks that are needed for long trips. Additionally, all 7 seating positions in my 2002 T&C LX are comfortable for adults.
I think Honda was stupid to put the antenna in the rear side window where the reception is compromised.
It seems most people who have reported :lemon: have problems within that first 90 day period.
Very few vehicles that have no problems in first 90 days ever turn out to be lemons. :lemon:
It had to be stuck. Mine fold into the floor in one continual motion.
Also when the van is in park and you open a door, are the hazzord lights supposed to go on?
Yes they are. That warns cars approching that someone maybe exiting the doors.
are the doors supposed to lock while you have already been driving for about 1 minute?
Doors are programed to lock after a certain speed. About 27mph. Another safety feature.
and I need to ask why does the one headlight go out when you use the signal lights?
There not suppose to. It has to be a defect. Rental car?
# 1. Heating coils at base of windshield.
# 2. Overhead console with compass/outside temperature and trip computer.
# 3. 7 year /100,000 mile powertrain warranty.
# 4. Omni-directional mast radio antenna for better reception.
# 5. Lighted controls for power windows and power door locks on both front doors.
# 6. Automatic locking power doors.
# 7. Power rear side windows that open at the rear.
There are things about the 2005 Odyssey EX that I like that are not on my 2002 T&C LX:
# 1. 60/40 Split fold-into-the-floor 3rd row seating.
# 2. 8 passenger seating.
# 3. Flat floor for driver and front passenger foot space.
# 4. Cast wheels.
# 5. 5 Speed AT for better performance.
# 6. Fore and aft movement of 2nd row seats.
# 7. Shoulder belt for middle passenger of 3rd row seating.
And items on the Odyssey EX that I do not want or do not need: :confuse:
# 1. Power sliding side doors.
# 2. Power roll down windows in sliding side doors.
Strange how your first list contains useless doodads, while the second - mojor engineering features.
Both have 60/40 rear seats that fold into floor
Both have cast wheels
Both have 2nd row seats that have fore and aft adjustment
Odyssey has 7 1/2 passenger seating
Odyssey has 3rd row shoulder belts for center seat
Odyssey has 5 speed transmission
Odyssey has roll down second seat windows (which can't be used in motion because of buffeting noise due to loss of power rear side windows)
Caravan has stow and go seating and more underfloor storage
Caravan has rear power windows
Flat floor? DGC has more front passenger knee room
Caravan has automatic locking doors
Caravan SXT has power tailgate
Interesting how Ody lovers consider superior features of the DC minivans as doodads. Odyssey owners appear to feel insecure to have paid more money to have an Odyssey that is not as quiet as the GC/T&C and lacks many comfort and convenience features of the GC/T&C.
The 2005 vans don't have heating coils for the windshield, most don't have auto leveling suspension unless you get the towing package, most of the interior switches don't light up anymore, the trip computer has been dumbed down, the aluminum wheels on the T&C Limiteds feel and look like cheap shiny plastic, the 7 year warranty is gone after 2005, and the side windows in the middle don't roll down like the Honda, Toyota, and Mazda.
After having 3 Chrysler minis from 1988 to 2003, I can tell you it would have been far more appreciated if we had middle windows that rolled down vs. the now lame vent windows. But I do agree the buffeting could be problem, so the Sienna wins because it has both roll down windows and pop out vent windows.
Aside from the stow and go seating, the 2001-2002 vans seemed to have a much higher quality/content interior/exterior when compared to the late 2003-2005 vans due to all the de-contenting Chrysler has done.
If you’re on a budget, the Chrysler make a lot of sense, but for someone like me that usually gets their cars loaded, the Toyota and Honda just have so much more quality and techno gadgets when compared to even the T&C Limited (a.k.a. backup camera, laser cruise control, wood steering wheel, xenon lights, front and rear park assist, etc.)
I’ll be interested to see how the 2007 Chrysler vans turn out because they’re sure to have a much updated interior and new engine and transmission choices that should make them very competitive again in addition to the innovated stow and go seating, which I’m sure will get tweaks, too in 2007. We shall see.
The GC/T&C is quieter, has a better ride, has a much better sound system, has the best sliding doors in the industry and I can't say enough of the advantage of Stow-N-Go. I am sure Stow-N-Go had to be the deciding factor in having the government buy 19,000 of those minivans over all the rest.
The versatility that Stow-N-Go gives the owner is just great. From a seven passenger carrying van, to a cargo carrying van in less than five minutes.
There is no comparing sliding a seat over a couple of inches, to being able to stow a seat completely out of the way. Such as the one mother that had the stroller. It makes the difference in her having to fold it up and lifting it in the back where she would need to put her groceries, to dropping one seat down and rolling it in the van set up, and still having the space in the back for her groceries. Stow and go gives the owner so many advantages over any other van on the market. Not to even mention the storage space one has that no other van can match. The Chrysler/DGC are people friendly in every way. From family friendly, to work horse friendly in seconds. The vans are ready to do what ever you need a van to do. That is why they will continue to out sell every other van on the market by a long shot.
They tend to buy domestics for political reasons I believe and availability has a lot to do with it too.
I'm glad Honda chose comfortable seats instead of stow n' go but I guess to some people they can be a benefit.
Stow -N-Go makes a lot more sense. They can carry troops one minute and carry supplies the next. Or carry a combination of the two.
Would you agree that Stow-N-Go gives you versatility that Honda and Toyota can not match? It's the most people friendly van on the market. It will do anything you would buy a van to do. From hauling kids and adults, to hauling plywood and double strollers set up. And still give you room to store toys, diaper bags, purse, and etc. out of sight.
Why should it come as some huge revelation that the DC vans would have been chosen over the Ody's (over even the Ford/GM) offerings? It all comes down to price. That doesn't necessarily equate to 'better' for the average consumer.
Troops? TROOPS? Somehow, I doubt that the vans purchased by the GAO have one iota to do with troop hauling.
Most of the time, there are only kids in the middle and back seats. And I am sure kids won't complain of the middle seats being a little firmer.( I haven't heard of any adults complain about my middle seats yet.) and I would stack up the front seats where adults sit, for comfort against the Honda any day.
"WINDSOR, Canada — The U.S. Armed Forces have ordered 19,000 minivans and 5,000 Pacificas from the Chrysler Group for use as light-duty vehicles in Iraq and elsewhere around the world, displacing less fuel-efficient Humvees, according to the Windsor Star."
The thing is, no matter what they use them for, they can do the job better than any other minivan.
Well, I for one would be interested in purchasing one of these light-duty minivans from the U.S Army Surplus Store when they come back from tour. Instead of the roof rack option...you can chose the mounted machine guns option.Bulletproof glass coming standard.Of course, the only color choice available would be desert sand. Knowing the U.S Army though, they're probably be equipped without air conditioning.
I don't know about you. But, if I'm in Iraq (where oil flows like water) I'd much rather be sitting in a big powerful Humvee than some Dodge Grand Caravan with stow n go seating. :P
As for color, they are all going to be gold.
But I challege any of you to show where you can use a Honda or Toyota better than you can a Chrysler/Dodge minivan, except for hauling one more person in it. Neither is more family or work friendly, as the Chrysler/Dodge minivans.
If "do the job better" means "meets minimum performance specifications for the least amount of money", then I would have to agree with you. The DC vans can probably meet the government's minimum performance specifications for the least amount of money.
btw - I stand corrected re: troop hauling. I think that makes sense in most places we have troops stationed. I don't think you'll see many in northern Iraq however.
Instead of doing this , they made the decision to go with very comfortable seats instead. Naturally a decision like this won't please everyone.
I have sat in these twice and, like others find them to be less than comfortable. Maybe OK for a kid but I know I wouldn't want to take a long trip sitting in one of these. At our recent car show, they had tow DC vans with stow and go seats and both were broken and couldnt' even be demonstrated.
I will say, people literally beat the hell out of car show cars so this probably isn't a normal thing.
I guess if these don't just become "catch alls" filled with clutter they could be a major selling point. I would have no use for them but then, I probably wouldn't use the lazy susan in the Ody either.
That would be rather odd to own a product that you do not like. I personally think DC vans look bad inside and outside, drive badly and are less reliable and ergonomics in them is just terrible. I know that from renting DC vans on multiple occasions. That is why I have voted with my wallet for an Odyssey. And that is what I would recommend to do for anybody who asks.
But is not it obvious that it is a personal opinion?
If "do the job better" means "meets minimum performance specifications for the least amount of money", then I would have to agree with you. The DC vans can probably meet the government's minimum performance specifications for the least amount of money.
That's not what I meant at all. I mean what ever job a minivan can do, the Dodge/Chrysler is ready to do it now. There is no going home to take out the middle seats because when you went over to see grandma and she gave you her antique dresser, you don't have room for it with the middle seats in.
It's having a couple of small kids and you having to go shopping for food and you need to take that heavy stroller and fold it up and slide it between the first and second row seats, or lift it up and put it all the way in back of the van. The Dodge/Chrysler can take it like it is, on all four wheels. You name the job and Dodge/Chrysler can do it now and do it easier.
When I first came on here and listened to some of the posters brag about how much better their Honda and Toyota was and how bad Chryslers were, I wondered what I had bought.
They talked about the great technology in new engines and transmissions. But I soon found out with all that new technology, it didn't go hardly any faster or get much better mileage than my old tech, 3.8, with the four speed tranny.
I soon discovered their stereos weren't nearly as good as Chrysler's The A/C was no better, the sliding side doors didn't operate as well. The Honda had a stiffer ride and was more noisy than the Dodge/Chrysler. More than a few have complained of the front seats in the Honda. Never heard any complaints of the front seats of the Dodge/Chrysler. Most of the Hondas didn't have the overhead console.
I had to wonder what made this such a great van. The side door even popped open in a government crash test.
After looking at one and test driving it, I came to the conclusion, it looks a lot nicer inside. Nice colors and sharp looking dials and buttons. But it's manly just a people hauler and that's all.
Chrysler not only decided to make their vans people haulers, but family and work friendly. Even to the point of turning the third row seat around for tail gate parties or watching outdoor movies.
When I hear someone brag a lot about their Japanese van and how superior it is to the Chrysler/Dodge. I have to say, for inside looks your right. That is all it's got over Chrysler vans. Chrysler vans can do so much more than haul people and they can do it now and they can do it easier and better.
Call for bids and nobody wants them unless they can grab it for thousands below book.
When you look at the convenience that the new 2005's gives you to have a van that can do it all, it's well worth it.
I would guess Honda Corporate people read these forums....I don't know. They also keep a close eye on the market. I'm sure they could quickly convert to these seats if they really wanted to, and who knows? they could do that.
I seriously doubt if it would increase sales to any great degree especially if seat comfort suffered as a result.
And, yeah, the longer you keep a vehicle the less depreciation is a factor. Still a six year old Odyssey is worth a LOT more than a Chrysler.
It does sound like you made the right choice...for YOU!
I am a big fan of Stow-N-Go. Unlike many people, I think ahead of all the things I will do with my van. My brother has a 1997 Dodge GC that I drove and liked it a lot. I just hated it when he asked me for help taking the seats out to haul stuff in it. They were heavy even for two people. That was why I bought a truck instead of a van before.
When Stow-N-Go came out, it was instant love. Especially when I saw all the other stuff that came standard on the SXT. I stowed one seat the day after I bought the van and haven't put it up since. I have carried an air compressor and wagon in the van so far, by just having to slide them in the side door. With one seat stowed, the three grand kids I pick up after school, can run in the van with plenty of room to get into the back seats or the one not stowed and throw their back packs on the open floor.
Under the one seat not stowed, I have a big furniture pad, tools, flashlight, umbrella and battery cables stuffed in it, all out of sight. I could put this computer desk in the side door of my van just by stowing the other seat. It's amazing the versatility this van gives you.
On top of that I have an 8 way power seat, power windows, automatic power door locks, over head console, three way air conditioning that cools this van down fast, even in Phoenix's 110 heat we had the other day. Power sliding doors and power liftgate. Power, heated outside mirrors, aluminum wheels, fog lamps, power rear quarter vent windows, traction control, anti lock brakes, power locks, remote keyless entry with engine immoblizer, electric rear window defroster, universal garage door opener, am/fm radio with six beautiful speakers, with cd and cassette with steering wheel mounted controls. This thing has everything I could want in a van or car. Stow-N-Go, just made it irresistible. I'm ready for anything you can put in a van. And the storage space keeps everything in it's place and out of sight, always making my van look neat and clean. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Ford, General Motors's vans, etc. none of them can do all the things the Chrysler vans can do. If your only after a people hauler and never carry anything else in your van, anything else will do . If that is the case and you don't have 5-6 kids, why buy a van at all? A big car will hold as many people and you'll get better gas mileage with it. But not for me. I want it all and my Dodge GC gives it to me.
If
The smooth ride of the DCG is great for us and our infant daughter. I thought the Odyssey rode a bit rough, similar to my '03 Accord. Say what you will about the DCX vans, we have been very satisfied with ours and we are Honda owners too.
If Honda was smart they would build all EX vans with a power liftgate and a telescoping steering wheel. The lack of a power lifegate really turned my wife against the Odyssey.
But I have owned enough vehicles to know that things always come up where you need either a truck or van. If not, you either borrow one or you pay $30-$35.00 to have it delivered.
Unless one really thinks ahead of all the things you use a van for, you don't really understand the value and convenience of Stow-N-Go over all the other vans. It's one of the greatest ideas Chrysler has ever come up with. I think even used ones will fly off the market.
If it was just a people mover and price was of no concern, I would buy that one Odyssey with the navigation system in a minute. It is so much nicer than the Dodge/Chrysler. But I'll be darn if I'll pay over ten, to twelve thousand more for a van like that with leather, over what I have. I'll print my directions off the internet.
If I only went on inside looks, Honda or Toyota would be my first choices. But when I look at all the features the Dodge van offers for the price that Honda and Toyota can't touch, except for thousands more and even then, they still can't give me Stow-N-Go, it made my decision very easy.
The DCX vans actual selling prices are much less I bet.
It's funny (to me) what some people consider to be a MAJOR plus like a power liftgate. People want everything these days.
2005 GC SXT MSRP $27,625.....Discounted price $22,825*
*When financed thru Chrysler Financial. After a few months, the
loan can be paid in full with no penalty. Entire amount does not
have to be financed to get the $1,000 incentive..
The GC SXT would be Stone White Clearcoat with the nice gray interior vs
the Ody EX Ocean Mist Metallic that also has a nice gray interior. (Taffeta White in the Odyssey has a less desireable light tan interior).
Although, each van is very nice, the $3683 price advantage of the GC SXT makes it the BEST BUY for me.
Ody EX 2nd and 3rd row seats slightly more comfortable and I like the plus 1 seat of Ody but the GC SXT flexibility with complete overhead console containing outside temp/compass and trip computer are more important to me than the slightly more comfortable 2nd and 3rd row seats of the Odyssey.
I bet at $28,710, you can't get a power tailgate or overhead computer. Can you get a radio with six speakers, CD/Cassette with steering wheel controls at that price?
I have found over the years that after a few months the looks fade a bit and you begin to wish you had the extras you gave up for looks.
Has anyone calculated real world purchase prices (not MSRP vs MSRP) after rebates etc. minus expected 3 year residual values?
Is the total depreciation of a comparably equipped Odyssey still less than a similar Chrysler minivan when you have paid near MSRP for the Honda vs invoice minus rebate for the DC van?
If so, it should be cheaper to lease an Odyssey for 3 years than a DC van unless DC has lease incentives to compensate.
So, which really ends up costing less to own or lease for 3 years?
I believe that rental and fleet buyers purchase DC minivans because they cost less to own (Price paid new minus price received when sold) than the Odyssey or Sienna.
A person would incur higher depreciation on a DC minivan if the minivan was purchased at MSRP. With the Odyssey now selling for $2,000 or more discount off MSRP, the Odyssey might have a lower depreciation than a DC minivan when the buyer gets a $2,500 rebate and an additional $1,000 discount from the dealer.