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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Not Shabby!!
Now that she has broken up with bf, I guess that you could find other "liesure opportunities" with her using Sto & Go!
Marine has some good suggestions...
And consider this......most radio/cluster/climate modules have anywhere from 26-50 wires/terminals. Have you ever reworked a wiring harness????
When you think of all the electronics being put in automobiles....DVDs, Computers, Nav, realtime traffic, gameboxes, backup cameras, blindspot detection, cruise with distance control, then think of the speed of what these items operate at....wiring will be history for many systems.
No way!!! She carries a gun and currently hates all men!!! NO THANKS!!!
Guys, my wife would probably borrow coworker's gun and use it on me!!!!
The table was rectangular....4' x 7', with 6 chairs, umbrella and base. Very nice set....$500 and made in China of course!!
A few years ago I actually sold a pickup we owned as an "extra" car. Neighbors and friends kept asking to borrow it. Worse, they usually wanted me along to help unload heavy furniture, rocks etc.
Finally enough was enough.
Taking female co-workers to lunch? Going out of your way to run errands for female co-worker on company time? You gonna need that stow-n-go when your
wife kicks you out and you need somewhere to keep all your junk.
Amen brother!! I'll tell ya I'm a FSE and had caravans for 10 years as company cars. The one thing I hated was taking out the seats to get a part from the airport and then having to put them in when all my friends wanted to go to Vegas, camping, etc. Heck I used the second row as a love seat when I was 20 for about 2 years. If I was to buy another van for work I'd get the GC SE with stow and go. After 5 years at my job and 100,000 miles it dosen't matter what brand it was when it started. But for now my subie wagon fits the bill quite nicely. :P
Back in the 1980's I used to work with mainframe computers which had several PCB backpanels each with over 10,000 wire wrap terminal connections. Troubleshooting was a severe challenge with 6 of these backpanels with over 60,000 wired connections!
I'm talking a tool that's actually easier to use then terminal crimpers. Now if you're talking about a guy using a pocket knife to strip insulation and crimping terminals with a pair of pliers....no. But if you're using hand crimper/stripper....MOST is way easier!
That was what Iwas tryin to say - Saturday mechanics are not ready for fiber work/repairs at this time.
I have read of far more problems with the Honda Odyssey in the Town Hall than problems with any other minivan made within the past 6 years. :sick:
I had planned to get a NEW Honda Odyssey after reading the glowing reviews for so many years but the numerous problems including the many reports of transmission problems has cooled off my interest in purchasing an Odyssey.
Tranny problems have been addressed to 2004 Odys built to Dec 2003 and first year 2005 bugs would be addressed by now or for 2006 models. If it would give you better peace of mind, wait till mid 2006 to get your Ody.
I'm soooo confused here!!!!!! Aren't all Hondas far superior to ANYTHING on the road???
Then I check all the Oddy sites and there's tons of problems...too numerous to list any more!!!! I posted on the DCX looking for people with issues on the DCX Minivans....none so far. None even close to Oddy issues like doors that don't open, or won't close once open, or poor design of condensor location (was this Honda's firs automobile??), radio reception, brakes.....Sorry, I'm listing them but my fingers are getting tired from all the typing.
Having been in the engineering/manufacturing/quality industry for almost 30 yrs, it is something that is difficult/impossible to avoid, especially in any first year model.
I think that's true to a point. But I think you also have to admit, that there are very few complaining on the 2005 Chrysler/Dodges. As a matter of fact, not many complaints after 2001.
But I think people also must realize the Ody is a new minivan and your always going to have some problems with a new model. There is no way designers can foresee all the problems that will crop up.
Sure...there are few complaints on 2005 Chrysler/Dodges in the Edmunds board. I'm with you in hoping it is because there are no problems to complain about. To know for sure we'll just have to wait till the all knowing, perfect clinical methodology,doesn't take a penny from advertisers...Consumer Reports, comes out with their next car reliability study.
Not just the Edmond board. It's the same on the Chrysler fan club forum. Here is a post from it.No one is complaining there either and it's strickly a Chrysler/Dodge board.
patrick30
Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 26
2005 SXT Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had the 2005 GC SXT with Stow-n- Go for eight months now
Nothing to post about- I'm bored...
14K so far, Had the oil changed as needed, rotated the tires, the headlights are actually useful (had a '96). Only wish that I sprung for the infinity stereo.
If Chrysler spiced up those interiors a bit...I would buy one.Reliability being the only reason it wasn't on my list in my 2004 purchase.
wouldn't think that!! Look in 2 year for prices paid and buying experience there's 46 post in the DCX board. So with your reasoning DCX vans should have twice as many posts as Honda Vans. Now this has nothing to do with anything but buying a van and what you paid. The Honda board has almost 10,000(over 5000 in the last 2 years). It's just that DCX vans don't inspire owners like honda vans do, like other DCX owners have said they think a minivan is like a toaster!! I never posted a problem with my dodge. Heck I expected all that happened to me. Now if I had a problem with my Odyssey everyone will know. BTW Sedona was awesome. All the picture I have seen are not even close and the sunsets WOW!! Everything worked properly no AC problems,wind noise, and my back felt great except for the one night I stayed at a hilton in phoenix beds are TOO soft(sorry for that report guys). Got about 24.5 MPG overall still have to figure the last tank still half full. Never had a better trip with the kids, in febuary we went to Yosemite in the Caravan man was that rough. We talked listened to CD's and from Goodyear to Indio they watched DVD's. I drove 7 hours and I could do it tomorrow. I will tell you what I know about DCX reliability compared to Honda. I will use CR because thats all I got. Just like KBB is all you got for resale value.
DCX
1999-Average
2000-Below Average
2001-Below Average
2002-Below Average
2003-Average
2004-Average
Honda Odyssey
1999- Average
2000- Above Average
2001- Above Average
2002- Average
2003- Above Average
2004- Above Average
Wow the honda does look pretty good
True, but most auto companies don't recall their product unless there is either a safety issue or a lot of complaints on a part not working as it should .I don't think Chrysler or Honda either one would have put on extended warranties on their trannies, if they had not had a lot of complaints on them.
I believe the reason for having so many more Honda Ody. post about Price Paid and Buying Experience is because there is a higher demand for the Ody. to which is you remember back in 2001 and 2002 you had to wait a few months for an Ody. Which ment that people were paying over MSRP and Honda with the attitude of take it or leave it. Honda owners are so happy it seems to be able to buy an Ody for under MSRP that they have to tell others about it which is new compared to the past. I think what you should do is see how many of those 5000 post in the last 2 years is for pricing and experience.
As for Daimlerchrysler only having 46 post in the last two years. I believe it's probably because most, if not all, Daimlerchrylser owners are able to buy a minivan a few thousand dollars under MSRP which isn't new. Also, I believe that Daimlerchrysler dealers are more customer friendly then Honda dealers from what I've read here on Edmunds and again this is not new. :shades:
So then, you know that more then half of the people that fill these questioners out are not mechanics and the questions, from what I've read, are very generic and not specific to a particular part. Using peoples opinions and saying they are fact is not my idea of how reliable a vechicle is. Perfect example. We own a 1998 Pontiac Sunfire which has over 79K and a 2001 DGC EX with over 61K. Just last year the check engine light came on in our DGC and stayed on for a few days. Took it to the dealer and they said the gas cap needed to be replaced which total cost was a little under a hundred bucks. We've had our Sunfire for about 7 years and have never had to replace the gas cap nor has the check engine light come on. Now comparing both of our vechicles with the gas cap problem, one might say that our Sunfire in this area is more reliable then our DGC because the van is newer. But the truth of the matter is that since our DGC is three years newer then our Sunfire, it is more likely that our van has more sensors to detect stuff going wrong then our Sunfire.
Another thing about CR, and I do read them, is that they go by how many questionaries they receive back from those that subscribe to them as to see how reliable a vechicle is. Since Daimlerchrysler sales over 300 thousand minivans a year, lets say that only CR receives only 100 thousand responses regarding Daimlerchrysler minivans. That means there are still 200 thousand owners unaccounted for. So in reality, CR is only using the responses from the 100 thousand then the total vechicles sold for that year. :shades:
Come on now! I got my EXL-RES for 3 grand under MSRP. If I was looking for a van I would want to pay the least amount I could and help people get a good deal regardless of MSRP. If they will sell 300,000 why are there 100 times the amount of interest in Honda vans it's probably a demographic thing. BTW I do read the posts on the prices paid and try to help people if I can. I bought my Dodge at Ceritos Dodge it was the WORSE car buying experience. They did the bait and switch and then it took 6 hours to get to the original price I was quoted. I shoulda left.Then I got home and I paid 200.00 more then I thought I should have paid. I looked over the contract and they chared me 200.00 for window scribing which I told them 3 times I didn't want. Oh well my honda was less than a hour and a half, and got it for invoice+180.00+50.00 doc.fee+tax and licence and nothing else. Maybe DCX owners are just embarrassed by the experience I know I was!!!
The same can be said of the honda van. Statistically it all evens out. When you do a poll do they poll everyone of course not!! But, you can get within a few percent. If hondfa is SOOO bad why do they have much better satisfaction and reliability ratings. Anyone can say the product is more reliable but I posted some real data. Anyone got something that isn't LOOK HOW MANY POSTS!!!
A poll is a small percentage(say under 10%) from which they can project/predict the outcome/trend of the whole population with a high confidence(say 80+%) of accuracy.
This is used in many applications. Another good example is the estimate of TV viewership of certain programs and networks.
With the Dodge, they complained about many of the controls being busy. Can anyone explain what busy controls are?
Then they say Dodge didn't have height-adjustable arm rests. Not explaining that neither did Toyota or Saturn.
They said it was awkward to fold the front row seats, when there is only one lever and one strap to pull and they fold in easily when the front seats are moved up.
CR said the Dodge GC is nosier than the top rated minivans. Chrysler says it is quieter than any minivan they have made. Auto.Com, says,
" Driving Impressions ,
These are smooth, quiet vehicles, particularly when measured by minivan standards. Additional sound-deadening measures have been added for 2005 that reduce wind noise
CU says they said the ride can be unsettling over uneven services or in bumpy corners. That at highway speeds the ride can be unsettling and a bit floaty.
Auto.com, says,"Ride quality is supple and well-controlled on the highway. The rack-and-pinion steering responds nicely and provides good feedback through the steering wheel. The Grand Caravan tracks true at highway speeds, so there's no need for constant, minor steering corrections. Indeed, the Dodge Grand Caravan offers superb driving dynamics. Grand Caravan rides more softly than an SUV, gliding over potholes rather than trying to beat them into submission. It's an excellent choice when transporting passengers on beat up freeways and bumpy urban streets..
The two are not even close on their driving experience. But CR's review could turn a lot of people off on the Dodge. I have not read one professional review that complains of the Dodge handling on the highway, the ride, or the interior noise, as CR did.
While several people on this forum complain of the Dodge middle seats being uncomfortable, CR did not. Also, a Canadian, test driving the Dodge for his paper said, "Despite the fact that the two second row seatbacks are a slim design, they got high-praise from family members who were in them for an hour-plus drive."
If a Chrysler/Honda fan happens to read a favorable review, they will make sure the world knows about it. If, on the other hand, some reviewer/publication knocks the car they own, then what that person said is discredited.
So, for crying out loud....drive and buy the vehicle that pleases YOU and not some subjective reviewer!
BTW, I have personally sat in those stow and go seats and I think they are hard, thin and uncomfortable! So have many of my customers.
But, again, your opinion may vary! But what you like!!
Well, if Honda can only produce 180 thousand per year to Daimlerchrysler's 300 thousand per year, I wouldn't call that a true comparison. (Now if Honda was able to produce as many as Daimlerchrysler, then I can see your point. But they don't) Let's say that CR receives only 80 thousand Honda responses and Daimlerchrysler only 100 thousand. How does that make the Honda more reliable and better satisfaction? When Daimlerchrysler clearly out sold them by 120 million by this scenario. Using this same scenario Honda has 100 thousand owners unaccounted for and Daimlerchrysler has 200 unaccounted for. Also, I heard that CR has about 1 million subscribers. If this is true, then that means that they probably only receive responses of only 1 or 2% of each vechicle from the total number sold, that they give information on. I'd say that this is a very small percentage, for a big margin for error when comparing one make that sales 180 thousand to one that sales 300 thousand. Now you can apply the real numbers to this scenario, if you wish, for each model total sold for that given year. :shades:
Not just that. I would challenge anyone to go look up any professional review and see if they can find the kind of complaints that CR gave the Dodge GC. It's not just picking any good review. No one is saying what CR is saying and CR carries a lot of influence in consumer buying. I also have not read one professional review, or Dodge/Chrysler owner that says the middle seats are uncomfortable.
Now you may get several reviewers saying one thing and several others saying another. But when there is only one saying it and no one else is complaining or saying just the opposite, something is wrong. That article reeks with bias against the Dodge GC. I pointed them out and showed where others are saying just the opposite. I challenge you to find one that agrees with CR.
Its problems per car. SO IT IS A TRUE COMPARISON. After you analyze a small group you get very good statistical view of the product. Anyway statistics isn't something I'd like to try and explain on this forum.
I have no problem with Honda. They are a good minivan. My complaint with CR is the things they complained about with the Dodge, no one else is. People are saying just the opposite, except for the course engine sound. No one has complained about the Dodge handling on the road or the way it takes bumps, the quietness of it. The way the seats fold into the floor.
How can you give a van a better than average rating on transmissions when they have had a recall on them two years in a row? How can you say one van can not be rated because it is too new, but rate the Honda better than average, when everything about it is new?
I am sorry you can't see the bias in these things, I can. As I said before, show me one professional review where anyone agrees with what this guy at CR wrote about the Dodge GC.
I've read people complaining about the front Oddy seats, and one woman selling her 05 cause she couldn't get comfortable in it???? My parents have been in my Stow N Go seats for 5 hours, thought they were as nice as ones in their 2002 Sienna. They're firm like German seats, which usually are better for long travel...not just jumping in them for 10 minutes.
I only use CR for items they can't "interpret" like 0-60 times, braking etc...hard cold facts!!! CR is sooo biase, you'd have to be blind not to see it.
Opinions are like A......., everybody has one Facts like documented recalls and numerous issues/problems are more important.
Consumer Reports needs 100 surveys - the minimum required to provide reliability results.
Man, you have got to be very good to make a reliability call from just 100 surveys returned. That works out to just 2 returned surveys per state! I believe them, sure, I believe them, sure..... :confuse:
Agree. Explaining statistics would be frustrating and self-defeating as it is beyond the comprehension and scope of many/most people.
I don't know about **bias**. I do know I've owned cars on their Must to Avoid list and had good luck with these cars.
So, then every car should have that problem, from what you are saying from those that sent in a CR reply.
Statistic by definition means -" An estimate of a variable, as an average or mean, made on the basis of a sample taken from a large set of data."
Fact by definition means - " Something put forth as objectively real."
Estimate by definition means - "An opinion: judgment."
It would seem that CR uses estimate which by definition are not facts. Now I'm done with this conversation. Let's get back to Honda Ody vs. Dodge/Chrysler minivans.