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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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"The 2008 T&C and Grand Caravan will blow the Ody away." As my pappy used to say "You can't polish a turd".
In the minivan class, the Ody rules in performance. By the way, some of my other family cars include a CTS-V, and a Maxima. My son just purchased a BMW 550i and also drives his in-law's M-B SL500, all new models. These are perfomance leaders in their own car class. You have to intelligently compare apples to apples, not car to minvan. In the minivan world, the Ody rules - many sources would support that, not just the average owner here.
Just gimme your vehicle license plate so that I would know when we are both exiting the ramp together. It would be a delight to have see/have you smell hot air from my (Ody) behind. LOL!
That's exactly why I bought my minivan, to act like an idiot on off ramps, endanger sensible drivers, and to show how my 1.4 sec 0-60 time is so vastly superior to all others!!! Somehow racing on exit ramps doesn't sound all too intelligent to me, especially in ANY minivan. Sounds like something a 16 year old would do.
Love this recent post on Ody problems:
Spent the better part of a day killing time while the SUV guzzeled up gas, even worse milage than the van, but not by much.
Guess this guy's Ody is in dealer...typical scenario these days.
I remember thinking the same thing dennis. After reading about how great the Ody was and it's sporty handling....I expected it would be like getting inside a Ferrari. Drove as well, but not better, than every other minivan I test drove.
Perhaps, I didn't take it on enough hairpin curves at 80mph as mac suggests?
latest CR report I've seen rates them identical? Much more of an improvement than "dropping down".
The facts are my friends that American consumers are leaving GM, Ford and Chrysler behind in droves and buying Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia because that is where the quality and reliability is. If Kia can get it why can't DCX or GM?
I'm always skeptical with "facts", especially when no numbers or information is provided....just opinion!!
If you look at Sales....DCX is kicking butt, even in Minivans. I'd have expected more from the highly touted Ody...brand new design etc....it's up but no where near plant capacity.
Yes, I own an EX-L. I never made it a secret. So, your beloved DCX is only good if its sticker price is above that of my Odyssey? The LX Odyssey rides the same as the EX.
In October, 2004, I was selected by a marketing research company to do a consumer test of four minivans. At that time I owned an '03 Silhouette with no intention of trading. The four vans I drove, all top of the line, fully optioned out with less than 500 miles on the odometer were: Relay, Grand Caravan, Freestar and Odyssey. There was no comparison, the Odyssey was way above the other four. The only one to come close in ride quality was the Relay. Since my Olds was a reliable rattle trap, there was no way I would buy another GM van. The Ford was just junk. It sounded as though it was about to fall apart. The Chrysler was just barely ok. When I got home later that day I told my wife that the Old's days were numbered and that an Odyssey was in my future as it was a year later. I had no axe to grind and no preconceived notions about any of the vans I drove that day. I was excited by the prospect of being able to evaluate these vans one after the other. I had to go over ever feature, including Stow and Go, sit in every seat and then give a grade to each feature. While I was driving a monitor rode along and asked my opinions of each feature. All the questions were the same for each of the four I drove. I remember that I gave the Odyssey highest marks in every category with all others far behind.
I have owned seven new minivans: '83 Vanagon; '87 Nissan Van; 90 Trans Sport; '93 Grand Caravan; '97 Windstar' 03 Silhouette and now an '06 Odyssey. Never buy another VW, Nissan or Chrysler van as all were just junk. I did buy two GM vans but never another until their QC, fit and finish improve. There are only 4,000 miles on the Odyssey but so far, I am happy.
From CR: The owner satisfaction of Odyssey 78%, DCX 58%. Since CR is a copyright publication I cannot reprint but they are down on DCX. Read the March, 2005 issue, the latest minivan review. The only two vans CR recommends are Odyssey and Sienna. CR no longer can recommend DCX because their frequency of repair has dropped way off.
I do not mind debating facts but I cannot debate misrepresentation of fact.
Of course I have come across drivers of all sorts in all vehicles categories. Some drive so lethargically that you could swear that they have one foot in the grave already. For those folks, the DGC would be the best economical choice. An Ody would be under utilized for its superior mechanical performance. Maybe that describes you very well?
I have vivid memories of impending peril trying to get my 1992 Grand Caravan up to highway merging speed when I lived in St. Louis. I would even avoid some ramps in favor of others where I had a better opportunity to get to a safe merging speed without flogging it too too hard. I blew up the water pump on one particular merge trying not to be run over by a semi. The same engines (slightly massaged) that were available in 1992 are still being used on the DC vans. I feel that adequate acceleration is critical for safe driving and Honda beats the DC 3.8's and kills the 3.3's in this field.
If you are trying to merge with a semi bearing down on you and you have no choice but to get on it you want everything that you can get and Honda gives you more. This is not about racing, but safe driving
I think the tranny in the Ody makes it pull the hills much better as it remains in a lower gear when it senses hills. Even under normal driving, it revs a bit higher on the hills. I drive twisty/hilly roads daily and the Ody was the only minivan that performed adequate for me. I can't stand driving vehicles with soft suspensions, particulary when it's 7 miles of twisties just to get to town.
I would not be too surprised if the Odyssey wasn't still worth $6k more that the DC after 8 years.
Also your assumption is that the vehicles are equivalent and the only difference is initial cost vs. maintenance cost. I would say that the Odyssey is $6000 better than the DC and will stay that way.
Absolutely.
Not only do you need to merge properly for your safety, but also for the safety of the other drivers also merging. Just at lunch today I merged onto the highway behind someone who was not going fast enough (45 in a 60 mph zone). I got up to speed, but had to slow down which messed the guy who was trying to slow down to get into my lane. It was all very messy and we are not talking about any speeding.
If, for example, I bought the DSX and save $6000, and then after 7-8 year of driving and 150,000 miles (our family does a lot of road trips) I've only spent a few thousand on repairs AND I've been satisfied with the ride, handling, quality, etc of the DSX, then I'd have made the right decision...even if the Odyssey was trouble free for the same time period because I saved $6000 on the initial purchase, spent $3000 on repairs, so I'm still ahead $3000. And I'm guessing I'd have to spend somthing on the Odyssey in repairs during that time.
On the other hand, if after 7-8 years, I've had numerous repairs, lots of time in the shop, and spend $6000 in repairs, then I'd have been better off with the Odyssey.
The problem with CR and other magazine quality ratings is that they don't tell you the COST of the repairs, only the frequency. While frequency is important, if the Odyssey has a couple of major and costly repairs, while the DSX has a lot of little and cheap ones, then I'd rather have the DSX and save the $$$ in the beginning. But these are only examples. Until I see something that shows the average repair costs over a five year period that I can compare between vehicles, then the red circles, black circles, and other ratings don't give me enough information.
You understand and really enjoy the Ody for the superior performance it has, Mon!
This is one of the enjoyment/thrills I get (and safety as well like you described) in the Ody that is not available with other minivans. This is priceless! It translates to the drivers in the vehicles left behind smelling hot air of the Ody.
"I think the tranny in the Ody makes it pull the hills much better as it remains in a lower gear when it senses hills."
If I remember correctly, the Ody has this innovative electronic intelligence(i.e. fuzzy logic) that senses a driver's style and remembers/adjusts the tranny shift patterns for maximum performance the driver needs.
DCX has had this feature since 1989
"I've driven a 3.8L Caravan up that ramp many times and it wheezes pretty hard to get to 65mph" "
Hmm ... some one I knew has a DCX whose numerous repairs may not cost much, but it left him stranded one too many times. Imagine that in cold freezing weather and full of kids ... you can't put a price on that. Sometimes it's just not the cost of repairs that you'll have to think about.
1. Handling: Honda is the top dog here. The old 97 GM van, even it was old, handles quite well for an old design. New Ford Freestar has similar behavior. The Dodge is the least secure in my book when driven above 70MPH and on choppy roads.
2. Ride: Dodge van is probably the best on smooth roads. So it sacrifies handling for ride. Honda is second;and GM old van at the bottom.
3. Engine: The 240+ HP Odys is the clear winner. GM, Dodge are roughly the same since their engines are rated below 200HP. The Honda also has better smoothness. Ford 3.9L V6 sounds like a tractor engine
4. Transmission: I like GM transmission the best. Eventhough it only has 4 gears and weaker engine, this transmission knows how to shift to take the most of what it got. Chrysler van does have the 2-3 second delay when you push hard on the gas pedal to merge onto high speed traffic. This is extremely scary when you drive in LA seeing a semi bearing on you at 80MPH. My Honda , EX-L has the VCM option(cylinder shut off) that creates a booming sound at about 2000-2500 RPM. This is very "unrefined" for any transmission in modern times.
5. Head Light: Honda is the best. This has been a big problem on Chrysler minivans for decades. Last year, I rented a new one, and sure enough, the is no significant improvement. My old GM van is probably at the bottom too.
6. Brake: Honda is the best.
7. Assembly quality: Every Chrysler vehicle I rented were put together really well. No rattle, no squeak and everything seems to aligned well. I was somewhat disappointed with my new Honda on this aspect. That may be why the 05 Odys only got 2 stars on JD Power rating
8. Radio reception: Chrysler may have old looking radio, but their reception is the best. New Honda with side glass antenna actually does worse in this aspect even when compared to the older Odys with whip antenna. In adition, one can hear more vehicle noise in AM mode (besides weaker sensitivity) in the Honda
9. Seat Comfort: about the same for both Honda and Chrysler at least for front seats.
10. Space: Plenty for both Honda and Chrysler. Not for GM since they have 5 inch narrower body
Personally, we value the mechanical aspect of the vehicle above everything else, so that why we picked the Honda. We paid premium for it since it was the first model year. If we were to buy a new van again, we probably pick this vehicle above everything else in the market (including the Toyota). The only thing that may worry us is the longivity of the Honda 5 speed Automatic transmission.
jt
Like most Odyssey owners when you are losing an argument, change the argument. Read the Odyssey problems board!
Regarding your concern with the tranny, this was mostly related to the earlier, 2003 and older models, which Honda has addressed well.
As a habit that I have done for the past 30+ yrs of vehicle ownership, I change my vehicles' fluids myself on a very regular basis and have never had any mechanical problems. Engine oil every 3K miles and tranny fluid before every 25K. The key is clean fluids that have the required active chemical ingredients in them. This is CHEAP insurance.
Changing the tranny fluid in the Ody is a piece of cake. You just remove the tranny drain plug like you do for the engine crankcase drain plug. After draining the fluid, just replace with ATF-Z1 Honda fluid(Use no substitute, some garages are known to use cheaper Dexron for obvious reasons) with the same quantity, which I do through the dipstick barrel for convenience. The domestics tranny do not have a drain plug - you have to drop the pan or try to syphon the fluid through the dipstick.
Thanks for the AT fluid advise. I will do so on my vehicle
jt
For the YEAR, not month sales for DCX minivans are up! Most people in the automotive industry use Model Year when talking about sales figures.
There's this thing called "continuous improvement" that most manufacturers perform. There have been many changes and improvements since 1992. If you compare minivans in 1992, and other vehicles from same time, you'd have problems with all of them. In fact, Honda didn't build a real minivan til 1999! Today's performance numbers only show a 1.4 second (longer than it takes me to type it) difference between GC and Honda. The HP rating are even closer this year, since Honda is playing on same field.
If 1.4 second difference is that critical in merging, maybe it's not the vehicle.
I love you Ody owners!!!! Wheezes????? Mine doesn't wheeze even when towing an RV!!!
Maybe you should work on your typing. The 0-60 times are nice for the Honda but the things that make me happy are the better passing times. 45-65 Honda 4.3 seconds Dodge 5.6 second. 60-0 braking Honda 123ft Dodge 136 ft. 10% better laterial acceleration and it has VSC. I love the looks inside and out. The seat comfort thruout is first rate and the extra seat I've used a few times now is great. It's really not all about 1.4 seconds its more about having a smile for 8 years + and getting what you want!! For ME it was the Odyssey!
I purchased a 1999 Intrepid in 1999 at MSRP. Things were different then.
I believe that the decent Chrysler minivans were in the mid $20,sK and the Town and Country Limited were about $35k.
Actually it was a newer Camry and probably a lousy driver. I just used the example to make a point.
At Midway Chrysler Jeep in Post Falls ID (1-800-476-2703)
2005 Dodge Grand Caravan purchased from Chrysler under warranty. VIN # 1D4GP24R25B384196
Stow and Go, PS, PW, PL, tilt, cruise, 3 zone temp, rear heat A/C, sun screen glass, keyless entry, roof rack, Sirius radio, heated mirrors. $12,990
I got onto the Dodge web site and as close as I could figure, the MSRP on this vehicle (you can still buy new ones) is about $28,000.
They also have 2005's without the stow and go for $11,990.
45 - 65 Ody 5.3 seconds DGC 6.3 seconds
60 - 0 braking Ody 136 ft DGC 140 ft
At these numbers, the differences are minor when you factor in conditions like weather, mileage, drivers etc.. Was the Ody on it's first or second set of brake pads? Did the Ody have windshield leak affecting its drag coefficent? :P
And apparently CR doesn't consider lateral accelertion critical in its testing of minivans. But for those who race on off-ramps, I guess it would be.
I prefer real world pricing differences that people can actually feel in their pockets. I love being able to outfit my minivan in any config I want i.e...power hatch or not, leather or not, DVD or not. I love the flexibility and comfort of Stow N Go seating, the quiet smooth ride. I love getting EXACTLY what I want, with great quality, reasonable price and performance...FOR A MINIVAN!
Now if I was going thru a midlife crisis and felt a need to prove my manhood on off ramps, instead of pretending the ody is a sports sedan (which takes quite the imagination having driven Odys!), I'd buy a BMW or Porche!
Check out post 6030 in Ody problem area!!! $5000 for Tranny for 2002 Ody? OUCH!!! Thank god the guy has a warranty!!
Gotta love posts:
this van has been in the shop more than our Town adn Country ever was! We have never gotten rid of the front end problem and now they say it is due to the brake caliper which is "too heavy" and there is no permanent repair...we are thinking of trading and don;t really want another headache from Honda.
I expect these things only from DCX, never from a Honda!
That was with zero down, zero % financing.
However, you believe that relative to MSRP Chrysler vehicles are not cheaper now than they were in 1998-1999!Earlier in this thread I asked how much someone really paid for a 2006 T&C that was as close as possible to an Odyssey EX-L. I never did get an answer.
We who purchase the vehicle WE LIKE do not depend on CR or others to justify our purchase.
We who purchase the vehicle WE LIKE do not depend on CR or others to justify our purchase.
Thats why they don't input all the problems they have they just complain to CR when they are asked. OWNER SATISFACTION FOR DCX VANS IS POOR. I wasn't satisfied!!
DC minivans do NOT have as many problems per minivan since 1999 as do the un-reliable Honda Odyssey.
Ok then show me some proof as usual you have nothing. You just keep pushing unsubstainable information. Well look at the posts heck I do and there is like 20 times as much Honda traffic as DCX traffic. This goes from problem to buying experience to upgrade etc. So go look at the posts maybe your can reverse engineer the honda posts so you can upgrade your 2002!!
link title
The JD powers shows the Chrysler Town and Country limited getting 3/5 for overall appeal and Ody getting 5/5 for overall appeal. Now people relize I'm only talking about satisfaction. Sure there are some catagories that DCX beats Ody but not in owner sat. Actually Seinna is the leader here!
Highest ranking minivans 2005, Toyota Sienna, Chrysler Town & Country, Dodge Caravan, Dodge Grand Caravan. (no mention of Odyssey)
If you're a Honda Ody owner or potential owner you have no other choice than to lurk on internet sites, looking for a "deal", checking out problems/issues. They need some justification to make a $30k+ purchase and to make themselves "feel" superior to lowly domestic brands.
Funny how DCX sells over 2 times as many minivans as anyone else, yet only CR seems to have problems with them, whereas the Honda sites are awashed in problems? Can someone provide explanation?
If I were a Ody owner and just spent $30k on a minivan, I'd rave about it to everyone to! To let anyone know how vastly superior it was over much less expensive vans from the competition.
Maybe you weren't satisfied, maybe you got a lemon even. But this is my third DCX van and I've been extremely satified with all of mine. I have never had any major problems, in fact NONE to speak of...just tires, brakes, and oil changes. The first two were company supplied, and believe me, they weren't babied, yet they were flawless. My best friends back in PA are on their 4th or 5th DCX minivan. You'd think after 20 years of building minivans, that if they were that bad, theyd be out of business, not gaining business.