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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Clarification, the base CTS on the lot I was on was 51K and this did not include leather, it has Nav and moonroof. I guess what I was saying was, for a car that is smaller then 5 series and slightly bigger then a 3 series, the CTS is almost like the red headed step child.. now I found it interesting that the CTS coupe was less than the sedan by a good 5K..
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Are you sure you were looking at 2014 models? The new coupe hasn't even been introduced yet.

    Dimension wise, the new CTS has grown in size to match the 5/E/A6. Remember, the previous CTS was designed to compete with the 3 series offering a bigger vehicle at a better price.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    I experienced first real failure in my now 2-year old 328 wagon. It was the liftgate latch assembly. One nice morning the car is showing "gate open" warning, so I got out, closed it again. The warning is still on, so I try again and again. No avail. What's also strange, the glass window in the gate (yes, similar feature to those on bog SUVs) would not open. As it turned, the dealer is replacing both latch assemblies, gate and glass window. I'm sure it's one of those classic electrical motor things, or perhaps even electronic control module. Sign of times and designs - 10 cent capacitor or resistor fails on a small circuit board and you get full-blown $500 repair.

    Nothing is simple today - it used to be, you shut the door, spring latch engaged mechanically. Today when I close my car (without locking, just shut the last door or hatch), I can often hear several motors engaging for one-two seconds. This of course means those are candidades for parts that could fail sooner than later. I can only hope it's not a start of all other electronic/electrical components going. Will see - if I get one of those every two years, I'd be allright. On the other hand, if I have to visit dealerships more frequently from now for those kinds of problems, I'll have to think about what's next. The electronics are wonderful inventions that made our lifes easier in many places, but it seems we are now relying on them in so many places for sometimes inexplicable reasons. Simple door latch is now some electronic module with motor and circuitry attached. All of that has lifespan much more limited than those traditional locks and we all pay for it sooner or later. What's worse, the repair people are not handy enough to change those 10 cent parts (that actually failed), they make buy entire assembly costing hundreds - and you can't do anything about it, as when those electronic controls fail, they can't be simply overriden by a switch. Depending what it is, the machine can get completely disabled or you can get locked out, or you get those annoying warnings on a dashboard lighting like a Xmas tree.

    OK, rant over. Hopefully everything will go back to normal. I really like the car and want to keep it.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Mark....still wondering why the Audi S4 isn't included on these trade rag shootouts. Wondering if Audi, like BMW, really doesn't want to promote their "hot" sedans? Most of the reviews center on the A4, like the reviews on BMW's 3....rarely do you see a review on the 335i.

    It was several weeks ago, but I read some of the Costco literature stating that they planned on getting "top tier" certification as soon as they convert all of their gas stations to "top tier" capabilities (BTW, both Costco's in Cincinnati already are coverted to "Kirkland Signature"). I've use their fuel for over 10 years. It is a great product, and much less expensive to boot.

    Procol Harum was a bit before my time, but always loved this song....
    http://youtu.be/_SbzE0dr0ys
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I just had the trunk latch replaced in my car for the second time. First time it wouldn't latch when it was below 40 degrees. I had to press the unlock button again when the trunk was open to make sure it closed. It was replaced with a faulty unit which would unlock, then lock again when the button was pressed only once. They replaced that yesterday.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    Interesting. Perhaps they're going cheapo on those items. Not a good feeling, is it?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    It seems strange that so many "electrical glitches" happen in German brands very early on. I'm not sure how many take place later as it seems so many of them are leased and you don't hear much from the people that buy them used. Makes one wonder if actually kept past warranty? I realize that the fixes are cheap(warranty) but time is also money. I had a 10 year old Infiniti that never had a bulb or a motor fixed or replaced. I currently have a 10 year old Toyota pickup that also has never had a bulb or motor fixed or replaced. We also have a 6 year old with Mazda that has never had a motor fixed or replaced and it just went over 103k miles. However, I just replaced a halogen headlight last week on the Mazda for a grand total of $8.99 and about 10 minutes of my labor.

    I just had my first service(oil change/rotation) on my new Acura and it is the first time I've been back to the dealer in a year except for a class on how to use all the tech stuff. I have to wonder if it's just the lack of quality of the motors, latches and switches that the German brands use versus the Japanese brands. I would find it hard to believe that it could be attributable to the actual manufacturing process in the German plants as I've spent quite a bit of time in Germany and know how exact they can be. I also wonder if the the U.S. made BMWs use different suppliers for those items(I assume they probably do) and if there are substantially less problems in those areas on the U.s. made vs. the German made vehicles. Just curious I guess. Based on all the reports(not just in this forum) of electrical bugaboos in the German brands it seems they could do a better job of sourcing parts if a $20k midsize Japanese brand car can have better electrical parts than a $50k ELLPS. I read something once that blamed many of these electrical gremlins on cheap Eastern Euro electrical parts that VW was sourcing but really can't substantiate that.

    I realize there are trade offs in life but it sure would be a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to have go the dealer so often to get little things like that taken care of.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I don't know. And for some reason I didn't test it before I left the dealer last night. It still doesn't work.

    I'll post what was on the service invoice. If you aren't interested in technical stuff, please skip this post:

    Boot/Trunk lid lock with microswitch incorrect connection

    Hooked up charger. Short test found fault for rear latch.

    Replaced rear trunk actuator with new one.

    Now operates as should

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    You do make some good points. This is a minor annoyance. I wouldn't bring it back to the dealer specifically for this trunk problem, but I have complained about it and the problem has supposedly been fixed 3 times.

    Like you said, even though it is under warranty, doesn't cost me a dime, & I get a loaner car, it still takes time to drop the car off & pick it up. Last night I didn't hit much traffic at all, but had to stop & put gas in the loaner, then stop to put gas in my car on the way home.

    I don't plan on buying the car at the end of the lease, so I'm not so nuts about it. Next service sin't called for another 16 or 17,000 miles.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    How does the oil thing work if you only drive, say,8k a year? Would you actually go two years between oil changes? I know my Acura manual says to go by the oil monitor or 1 year, whichever comes first. Is it the same on the BMW?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    edited October 2013
    I know my car was made specifically in Munich. Not South Africa, not North America. One failure does not make a pattern, so we will see how that works. My guess that certain part suppliers are local, but others may be global. If a part is small and easy to ship large distances in large quantities, but requires some specific manufacturing (electric motors, electronic modules, etc.), there is no reason to split suppliers. Bulky items, easy to spec and manufacture (seats, liners, interior, sheetmetal) , a different story.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    I don't think it's the Eastern Europe issue. Most electronics today are made in East Asia or Eastern Europe, it is all controlled by handfull of companies. I think it's more about attitude and cost controls. Relays, electrical items have certain lifetime designed into them (say X hours). One rated for half of those hours can cost one tenth of the price - and it looks just the same. It becomes irresistible for them to try, especially that chances are, majority will work for much longer. That rating may come from statistical sampling that certain percentage will meet the time criteria and to achieve same percentage of the the longer time, manufacturing process would have to be redesigned, making part that much more expensive. Cost-benefit for manufacturer becomes such that it's cheaper to deal with higher percentage repairs than pay for one that lasts. Why Germans do that and Japanese stick to better quality? This may have to do with cost of labor. There is only so much you can do to add efficiency. German labor is simply most expensive, not just due to wages, but also additional costs, from social security, to taxes, to benefits. Only so much can be paid out of customer's money, before they refuse.

    Bear also in mind that Mercedes Benz or BMW used to be trully exclusive brands, only for trully rich. They all have ambitions to sell more and more cars. Those cars are sold in milions. They may be "premium", but they are far cry from those 600 SEL from 60s or 70s in terms of cost and reach. Not to mention that advent of software companies that sell us undercooked and barely working products for high prices and taking no responsibility for it (Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, etc.) conditioned people to simply accept it when told, "what da ya want, it's new and experimental, it's software glitch".

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    The price I'm quoting for the coupe was on the Caddy's web page.

    The generation CTS was marketed towards the 5 series too but the size was too small, and if this one continues with this, it really has to grow... I have driven an XTS and that thing is between a 5 series and 7 series... The ATS is the new 3 series fighter but it is smaller in size..
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    My 320i is telling me that my first service is due, 4-15-2015 at 15000 miles. Well over a year in service... As this is part of an experiment I will follow what BMW states as recommended to see what happens.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    edited October 2013
    I had same thing and asked about it (it was even showing 2 years from first oil change date). They told me the date is based not on paid schedule (which is 12 months), but on "latest" the car should come in the dealership in case somebody drives very low miles. You still can/should come at 12 months, even if the mileage is not up yet and they'll pay. They told me it just has to be at least 12 months plus 1 day. The April date seems just to latests to maintain your engine warranty.

    BTW, I'm surprised it still says 15K miles. I did not check 320, but 328 and 335 are now at 12K/12M maintenance schedule, not 15K/12M. You could ask about it, perhaps make them repogram it, if your car qualifies for the changed schedule (mine does not).

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    It is the mileage or 1 year. You are correct.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Flight nurse - I'd get that checked out. I had a brand new 328xi (60 miles) & saw it needed service @ 10K.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    You actually can go more than 1 year between oil changes, according to my guy. The car has the programing do-dad that anticipates next service depending on driving. I don't think synthetic oil gets old, not in one or two years, anyway, so one could drive on it. As I recall, my then new car had similar cutoff date as FN's, 18 months, when car was new and then it switched to 2 years after the first oil change. However, BMW will pay every 12 months, so why not do it?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The generation CTS was marketed towards the 5 series too but the size was too small, and if this one continues with this, it really has to grow...

    It was targeted at both with the realization that it's job was to give people more value and size at 3 series prices.

    The 2014 CTS is within 1" of the 5 in the exterior dimensions as well as most interior dimensions of the 5 series.

    I have driven an XTS and that thing is between a 5 series and 7 series...

    And it's not designed to compete with either. It's a FWD/AWD vehicle for the livery market and Cadillac traditionalists.

    The ATS is the new 3 series fighter but it is smaller in size..

    Exterior is within an inch in all dimensions. Interior wise, it is smaller but not by much.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Since the owner's manual says max of 1 yr or by the oil monitor whichever comes first, I'll follow that schedule so I don't have to worry about any sort of warranty problem down the road. My oil monitor had just dropped to the 30% oil life left when it hit one year. The power train has 6 yr warranty so I want to maintain that with no questions asked.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    edited October 2013
    I wonder if you actually have oil monitor, or it's just a software. I'm not aware of any manufacturer having a real oild quality sensors there, from what I heard and read, it's all calculated based on driving, but I may be wrong.

    BTW, I my "over the year comment" was directed to BMW, not Acura. When I wrote "you" I meant "one who owns BMW", not you, m6user, owner of Acura. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    No problem, I understood. Just stating the obvious I guess. I really have no idea how the "oil monitor" works in the Acura and it really doesn't matter all that much to me. I would get the oil changed at one year or about 7500 regardless of what the "oil monitor" or the owner's manual said. Unless, of course, the owners manual was even more stringent.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    You guys peaked my interest. Since one of the local Benz dealers is close to my home, I wandered over there last night to look at the CLA. They had 2 of them (they said they initially had 4 but already sold two). One was $38K MSRP. It didn't have leather, nor the "fancy" diamond grill you see in the TV ads (it's an option).

    They wanted me to do a test drive. I declined. For nearly $40K, I think I'll pass. You can get a nice A4 for that money....or, an ATS....or a 320i...all of which I think are nicer vehicles. Heck...you can get a loaded up Acura ILX for less than that. Or, in reality, a G37x is selling for less than that these days. Just a hunch, but I'd say any of the above would be better cars than the CLA.

    No doubt they'll sell a lot of them...at least initially. I think those of us who fall on the "sports" side of luxury sport vehicles would be disappointed, though. Just one man's opinion.

    Side note....Edmunds forums flaky for anyone else?
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited October 2013
    m6...I pulled this out of my old file when I had my TL a few years ago. This is what Acura stated about the oil life monitor...

    "The TL has a Maintenance Minder system that automatically monitors the vehicle's unique operating condition to indicate to the driver when maintenance is required. Maintenance alerts are presented when the ignition is first turned on, not while driving (to prevent driver distraction). The system monitors engine operating conditions such as fluid temperatures and engine speed to determine the proper service intervals. The Multi-Info Display (MID) located below the fuel and engine temperature gauges in the instrument cluster indicates the remaining percentage of engine oil life, and then shows service is due with a "wrench" icon. A percentage-based countdown to the next service is displayed when the car is within 15 percent of the end of the service interval. A letter and number code is displayed to indicate the specific type of service that is required. If the service is missed, the MID indicates past-due mileage to express the urgency of the required service to the driver.

    The system is designed to eliminate unnecessary maintenance procedures, environmental impact and expenses, while ensuring that important service issues are addressed. In some cases, oil change intervals can extend to a maximum of 10,000 miles, which could spare the owner considerable money and inconvenience over the life of the car. The owner-resettable system monitors all normal service parts and systems, including oil, oil filter, tire rotation, air-cleaner, automatic transmission fluid, spark plugs, timing belt, coolant, brake pads and more."

    Thinking back to when the manufacturers stated oil change intervals based on mileage alone, I think the monitors might give a more accurate guesstimate on when your oil is depleted.

    I remember a mechanic friend who I would consult in my younger days of building a (money pit) track car, telling me he could tell if the oil was depleted just by smell and by rubbing the dip stick in between his fingers. I was amazed at that. Until I realized all he was doing was feeling for grit in the oil, and trying to determine if the oil smelled "burnt". Not very scientific. Of course, we didn't use synth oil, either.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,084
    No doubt they'll sell a lot of them...at least initially. I think those of us who fall on the "sports" side of luxury sport vehicles would be disappointed, though. Just one man's opinion.

    graphicguy - I went to the local MB dealer a couple of weeks ago to take a closer look at the CLA. You would have thought that a Kardashian kid had showed up, there were so many people surrounding the car.

    Like you noticed, the two they had on the lot were stickered in the $36-38K range. Quite a bit of money for what is a pretty small car. I guess everyone wants to play in the 'compact luxury' arena these days.

    I agree with you - those people wanting something sporty will probably shop elsewhere. 320i, A4, ATS would be good alternatives.

    Where it gets tricky is that you can option up some more pedestrian brands to that mid 30's price range - Optima, Accord, Fusion - and get way more features for the money. And, save money on maintenance. And, perhaps get a better warranty.

    Bottom line is that the lines are beginning to blur on the luxury side of the equation.

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  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Where it gets tricky is that you can option up some more pedestrian brands to that mid 30's price range - Optima, Accord, Fusion - and get way more features for the money. And, save money on maintenance. And, perhaps get a better warranty.....Bottom line is that the lines are beginning to blur on the luxury side of the equation.

    Of course none of those more plebian models can put a bit three pointed star on the hood......
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited October 2013
    Thanks. Acura doesn't really say how it's done but I became curious by this discussion and found this:

    http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/oil-life-monitoring-systems.html

    Sounds like the systems work very well.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    That is true, but none of those also put a 7 speed dual clutch with nearly 260 lb-ft at 1200rpm. Plus the MB has style those cannot touch.

    More features don't always impress me. While initially these were impressive new features...I no longer feel the "wow" about power mirrors and windows (a little tongue n' cheek here...). For me, after a few months the "new" features are "ho-hum". Not to say I wouldn't want power windows on a new MB :)

    I initially felt this about in-car nav's. They were amazing and seemed worth the thousands they commanded. Now it seems they are used as a tool to gouge the consumer; they'll integrate additional features (customizable settings, etc)...so if you want the 'features' you pony up for the nav.

    My former IS had the nav and I explicitly searched for one, but I never used the nav. My large phone with Google maps was always far more accurate and easy to use (and I didn't have to buy an expensive DVD every year to upgrade).

    The back seat may be a bit cramped, but the CLA is a bigger car than the current C class in every dimension.

    I haven't compared a loaded mainstream vehicle to the CLA, but if I'm right at $35K I think i'd forego an 'option' for the CLA style.

    Plus...I like the three pointed star...more than an H or an italicized H
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    "It seems strange that so many "electrical glitches" happen in German brands very early on."

    Window regulators are/were big problems for MB and VW, when I had my 300SDL I would go through two regulators a year, both on the drivers side, and at $370/e it got pretty expensive after a while. VW had the same issue for a while but no longer have that issue.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Dino, I'm not too worried really, I'm figuring that the car has no real miles on it yet and the computer will start "analyzing" how it is being driven and recalculate when the next service should happen.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    The currently CTS (2014) is narrower then the the last generation, yes it is longer but the shoulder room is where it counts to many people.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    I'm guessing the "oil Monitor" works based on temps, driving style, whether it is stop and go traffic or highway, the speed in which one drives throttle position and over all how one "drives" the car. It would be interesting experiment to take two identical cars, drive one how normal people would drive and then take one and drive it hard, take it on the track and see if the oil monitor stays anything different and if the one who drives the car harder would have to come in for service sooner. OR does it matter with the new Synthetic oils how hard or easy you drive the car..
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Ivan, the new do-dad's that cars have a nice and at times make for a easier trip, one thing I wish rental cars had was Nav, so far the only rental I have ever had that standard nav was the Infitii Q45 (The Whale) it was nice since I wasn't too sure where i was going, but I just use my phone the other times since the new goggle maps integrates well with the iPhone and when connected to Bluetooth and comes through the speakers.

    One nice feature I just found on my 320i is the ability to open the trunk by placing my foot under the bumper. It is a nice feature when your hands are full. Same new Do-Dad's are handy others are just gimmicks.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    That is true, but none of those also put a 7 speed dual clutch with nearly 260 lb-ft at 1200rpm.

    I'll venture to say that the vast majority of the CLA buyers won't even ask or care about that. They are attracted to the shiny star and the $349 lease rate.

    Plus the MB has style those cannot touch.

    To each his own. IMHO, the styling of the CLA is overdone. MB seems to be overdoing the blades and cuts on the nose and tail.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited October 2013
    Michaell...I agree with you....the auto industry has become so finely segmented, it really is starting to blur from one car model to the next.

    Just saw a Kia Optima that one my best friend's wife bought. When did those things get to be so nice?

    For $36K, is a CLA built better, does it perform better, have better materials, last longer, etc...than a loaded up (and less expensive) Accord? Hmmmm...I can't make that leap.

    Then again, I thought it was absurd when I read an article a year or so ago stating that a Mustang GT is the equal of a BMW M3. Maybe I'm starting to see the point.

    The times I walked into a Benz showroom, I always walk out believing there were better alternatives for a lot less money.

    With the CLA, MB is cashing in the chits they earned from the years their cars were considered overbuilt and overengineered...available only to the rich. Today? I'm not seeing it.

    I've probably hit the high end of my tolerance for how much I'm willing to pay for a car, regardless of its capabilities.

    My soft spot for Acuras is beginning to show, me thinks.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,084
    Keep in mind that the CLA is not the smallest offering .. they offer both the A and B class overseas (and the B class in Canada as well).

    Every so often I'll pick up a copy of CAR magazine, to see what's happening across the pond.

    Some years back, one of their editors wrote a column that talked about the shrinking middle class of car manufacturers. The improvement of Hyundai & Kia (and the other "low" cost brands available in Europe) and the continuing down market efforts of BMW, Audi and MB meant that popular brands like Ford, Vauxhall/Opel, Renault and Peugeot were getting squeezed.

    Might that be happening here in the States? It's possible, quite possible.

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  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    >>To each his own. IMHO, the styling of the CLA is overdone. MB seems to be overdoing the blades and cuts on the nose and tail.

    You're correct...I was assuming everybody most love the styling because I think it's fantastic :)
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Hey... that's how I usually see it, too.. If I think it looks great, then everyone else feels the same way... or, they are wrong... ;-)

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  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    For those here who might be interested...

    http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=899014
    2022 X3 M40i
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Just what we need, another $50,000 BMW

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Thanks, Ray.

    NYC....I was thinking the exact same thing....just what I need...another iteration of a car I am keenly interested in.

    Must walk away....must walk away......

    ;)
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • sichin2000sichin2000 Member Posts: 6
    With a $3,000 price increase, BMW is taking the apples to oranges marketing plan.. and letting Audi and MB battle in the entry level sedans (CLA/A3).
    Since most family oriented buyers will like the size of the 3 series/a4 and those (younger buyers) seeking a smaller ride won't mind the smaller 2 coupe and may prefer it over the a3/cla, this maybe a good plan.

    Regrettably, the last coupe I had was a 73 mustang and will wait for my midlife for a Stingray... so for a few years, hopefully I and you will be happy with the S4.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    With a $3,000 price increase, BMW is taking the apples to oranges marketing plan.. and letting Audi and MB battle in the entry level sedans (CLA/A3).

    Don't forget the new 1 series is going to be FWD/AWD and compete in the same market as the CLA/A3.
  • sichin2000sichin2000 Member Posts: 6
    I thought that wasn't due until 2017 model... when all the dust would have settled by then... (by then Kate Upton might be over the hill and Usher will be on tour with Lionel Richie)
    Wait, did you say the Mustang would be FWD too ;p
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2013
    Quick take: 2014 S4 S-Tronic (333 HP 325 lb ft).

    There must be some reason that Audi would understate the power of one (or more for all I know) of their engines. Maybe it is a tax thing in Germany. Whatever the reason, it seems to me that there is no way this car has only 333 HP and 325 lb ft.

    I had heard that the 2.0T's power as it stands in the current A6 is understated (and I have driven the car and it does seem impossible that it is 220 HP motivating a car that big) and I read a test report of the S8 that wagged its finger at Audi for understating that engine, too, so I guess it must be an Audi practice to under-rate their engines.

    Of course, other than for tax reasons (if that really is true), why would they do this? I recall that Acura (and others) had to restate the power of the RL's 3.7L V6 (to less than 300 HP), suggesting to me that most car companies would probably like to find a way to overstate the power numbers (HP measured at sea level on a cold day, for instance).

    In any case, even with less than 1,000 miles on it, the S4 seems to have great, surprising, reserves of power -- perhaps sports car power. An RS version must be dangerous, if this S version is any indication.

    Once again, I find myself wondering why the recent spate of car magazine sport sedan comparos doesn't include this car!?
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Mark when it comes to HP, the German's have always done it different. If you take the BMW 335i, the car makes 300hp and 300 lbs of torque, however, ifyou look at the times it run, there is no way that a 300hp car can run that fast, and dyno test have proven over and over again that it makes more power. Also the 7 spd DSG helps too. I also believe that engines today make power more efficiently then before. My 320i only makes 180hp and 200lbs of torque but the passing on the highway is effortless...
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    As for why the magazines aren't testing the S4 with the others, it may have lost a comparision test with one of the others in the past, I am not sure how old the current A/S4 is. Also the may be justifying it by testing RWD performance sedans, maybe they will do an AWD test later ( not saying it is right, but might be their thinking). I think generally the first answer is the reason ( same reason the c-class isn't in the tests). That said I am sure the A/S4 is right up there with the others, and depending on what you are looking for may be the best.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2013
    Drove from Cincinnati to Columbus and back yesterday -- on the way back, crossed over to 1,000+ miles on the OD.

    Well, for reasons I cannot imagine -- other than the fact that here in Ohio we have raised the top speed limit from 65 to 70mph (and EVERYBODY does limit+10 and lots do limit+20) -- I got in with a "pack" of cars cruising along between 85 and 90, and for the hell of it, I got in the left lane and punched it for just a couple of seconds: an indicated 101mph "just like that!" Poof.

    I'm destined to get a ticket. Thank god for cruise control.

    End note1: it must be the all season tires, but this is one of the quietest cars (even at speed) I have ever been in.

    End note2: this is a 2014, yes? Yes. Why in the wide wide world of sports does the "iPhone/iPod adapter only have the iPhone 3, 4 and 4S "big" connector? I have a now outdated iPhone 5 and it uses the new "little" connector. The solution (and no charge) was for the dealer to give me an Audi connector that has a USB female plug on it. I take the 110 volt AC plug off of the cable, plug the USB male into the female and I at least have the ability to keep the iPhone charged. I don't seem to have any of the control or selection features I would have if I had an iPhone 4. This means, I turn on Bluetooth, plug in the USB, fire up the system and punch up whatever I want to listen to ON THE PHONE itself, then put the phone in the glove box and let whatever playlist I have selected run its course.

    My "old" Acura TL worked perfectly and seemed way way better integrated with both my iPhone and my Kindle Fire (which I used to use for audio books; now I use an iPhone app to do the same thing.)

    Endnote3: I got used to having the garage door opener work with the car turned off on the Acura, can't do it on the Audi. This means you have to close the garage door with the engine running -- I know it is only a few seconds, but with all the software controlled things the MMI permits/enables, you'd think there could be a menu item that lets you choose what will operate with the engine off. I know this is a picking of the nits, but there needs to be a software update to take care of some of the little things that shouldn't be on a nearly $57K car.

    Overall, however, this thing is a blast!

    More later.

    Drive it like you live.
  • wco81wco81 Member Posts: 590
    I'm not a big car enthusiast. Back in 2006, I was reading these forums for Audi and BMW but in the end bought a Honda because I knew I wasn't going to be driving much -- the 7 year old Honda has just over 23k miles.

    However, I'm thinking of getting something better and one thing that might drive my choice would be what kind of European Delivery program the manufacturer offers. Back 7 years ago, I think only BMW was doing ED and there were packages to drive through Switzerland and down into Italy, Lake Como to be specific.

    The savings, with FOB originating in Munich, could result in a lease that saved you enough to pay for the trip to Germany (maybe not to tour around Europe though).

    I see now that Mercedes and Audi are offering ED again.

    So do these and the BMW ED programs still offer substantial savings on leases?

    I still won't drive that much so I don't need a lot of miles per year but I'd at least start off with a good tour in Europe.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Volvo has a very good ED program. If you want to see Sweden, and want a Volvo.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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