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Your comments regarding Ward's are interesting given the Holy Wars that have erupted around here based upon "magazine comparo's". Don't think I'd dismiss Ward's as easily as you have - what is your opinion based upon... lousy engineering expertise?... marketing dollars in reviewer's pockets?...
You can take anything in print with a grain of salt. Important thing is to "see for yourself", as each person's objectivity is distinct. I enjoy reading opinions, but that does not shape my own until I have seat-of-the-pants evidence to form my own opinions based upon my personal value system.
Out of category: A smattering of reviews I've read said the shifter in the Miata is the smoothest, but I didn't feel compelled to verify it.
"Hiccuping" and "stuttering" are not qualities I've observed in my car and doubt if any other BMW owners with the 3.0L will concur unless they are using 87-octane fuel.
To each his own. I use 91 in my 330i performance package. Ever since they replaced my blown ignition coils (known issue BMW blames on the supplier instead of admitting fault), my engine's run like a trash compactor.
You can take anything in print with a grain of salt. Important thing is to "see for yourself", as each person's objectivity is distinct. I enjoy reading opinions, but that does not shape my own until I have seat-of-the-pants evidence to form my own opinions based upon my personal value system.
Same here. I don't trust CR, magazines, Edmunds, Ward's or anyone else's views, awards, comparos or statements. I must experience the car for myself. I still think Audi's 2.0T is a better engineered engine than the 3.0 in my BMW.
nope. A BMW tranny cannot keep up with a lightning fast shift - as in bam, clutch down, out of gear 2 into gear 3, gas, clutch out. The tranny binds and or it simply won't go into third. i can replicate this on my bro-in-law's 325i too. The tranny simply can't keep up with the kind of speed shifts I'm used to getting from Mazda/Honda trannies.
Love the DSG but still like the tactile feel of a clutch.
Out of category: A smattering of reviews I've read said the shifter in the Miata is the smoothest, but I didn't feel compelled to verify it.
Love miata manuals.
Hmmm... I go through all the gears as fast as my right arm and left leg will allow. Pretty sure I wasn't shifting the any of the others any quicker. My procedure is:
a) Clutch pedal down, gas pedal up, and moving out of gear all at the same time.
b) When my clutch foot hits bottom it comes right up and I'd better be in the next gear (or there'll be Heck to pay!), as the left foot is coming up the right one is going down.
The M-B felt better, but I doubt if I was shifting it any faster.
As far as 'bulky' and 'notchy', that describes the 6-speed in the R32 to a tee.
"Love miata manuals."
Noted. I'll have to get off my derriere one of these days and try one.
Thanks.
I personally enjoy the 5-sp in the 3-series, but LOVE the Miata tranny. Honda S2000 is also sweet. Problem is that the Miata and S2000 are designed for Hobbit's and I'm a svelte 6'4"
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So in order to have a comparo C/D did a reasonable thing. These comparos are to be taken with a grain of salt anyway. Althouth they are good to use as a data point in a discussion such as this.
With a grain of salt indeed ! Here are the actual scores for the 330i in the "Vehicle" category: 8+7+3+4+3+7+9+7+9+0+17= 74. But C&D gave it 75, to yield the 1pt margin of victory for the Bimmer. Fuzzy math indeed !!! Meaning: overall the IS350 and 330i had the exact same final score = 212 pts. A tie for 1st. Overall, I'd say the test was rigged, cos a broken down car should score ZERO, and using previous yr's number shows how much they wanted the Bimmer to win.... So much for objectivity !
For those happy that I have left, dream on... Taking nothing away from the 3-er, it simply is not the ultimate driving machine. That is all hype !
For those who won't give the IS350 a test, you will be missing a great car. I'll surely wave bye to you as you watch my tail disappear in traffic in my IS350.
It may be hype, and it may be rigged. But as others have noted before, horsepower is not the end-all and be-all. That's the hype, you allude to. Just ask Infiniti. I'm sure BMW execs broke open the champagne when they read this review. Lexus gave the IS350 it's best shot, but it wasn't good enough.
If your goal is stop light racing and triple digits on the speedometer I'll wave as you pass.
Now I just have to drive the E90. I'm very curious to compare its driving dynamics with the TSX. I'll drive both the 325i and the 330i.
Johnny
As far as I'm concerned, it can't qualify as a great car unless there's a working clutch pedal next to the brake pedal. An IS250 with a 6-speed might, just might, qualify in my book.
If it ain't got a stick... you're just a passenger no matter where you're sitting.
"I'll surely wave bye to you as you watch my tail disappear in traffic in my IS350."
And I'll be sure to wave back as I pass the gas station.
The idea that a car, like the E90, can be that much better gets me pretty hyped to try it. I've been a big fan of BMW for a long time, but I've never driven one. Or in one.
Like I said, I've been nursing a bimmer jones somethin' fierce! :shades:
Johnny
Agreed. I'm not sure the IS350 is a direct competitor to the 3 series without the manual.
Johnny
Thank goodness. Now I don't really have to pay attention to the road when I'm "driving." I can concentrate more on my crossword, coffe, email etc. 'cuz I'm not really a driver! Phew!
Or any of the race series drivers that use the paddle shifters, do they know they're just along for the ride?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
People driving slushbox automatics are not doing anything remotely similar. There's a big, big difference between a sequential manual or direct shift gearbox and a torque converter equipped video-gamey tiptronic/sportmatic/steptronic.
I've been driving an automatic car for a week now. I'm bored to death. There's barely any engine control - even with dorky shift buttons or paddles. My interest in my drive time has gone from paying total attention to passively sitting in long lines even when the lane beside me is moving. Why bother pulling out? I'll have to endure the excrutiatingly slow shifts and harsh downshifting one gets from automatics. Honestly, my drive with an automatic has turned me into another listless worker bee either heading to the hive or away from it.
The only time this week that I felt in control and alive - I had my bro-in-law's 325i manual for about 2 hours. Heaven.
I drove plenty of cars with sticks in my lifetime, but I am not enamored by it. Its simply a much more involved way of driving, that's about it. But if you live in your car, maybe its important. Here in SoCal with the constant stop-and-go traffic, having an auto tranny is convenient.
You can look down your nose at those with slush boxes while your small band of stick-loving drivers continues to dwindle by the second.... Before long their would not be a single true manual to be found in any car. Then what'll you all do ?? Ride a bike to work ? Hehehehehe
How about other aspects of what makes a car?
Handling: Definitely not
Gas efficiency: Definitely not
Ride: No
Room: Definitely not
Features: Depends. A fully loaded one is tops in this class in features, IMO. A base IS350 has less features than a base G35.
Interior quality: Not yet known, but I bet it's up there with the A4 in this department.
Price: Gonna be up there with a 3 series.
to me it's boring. and I live in so cal.
You can look down your nose at those with slush boxes while your small band of stick-loving drivers continues to dwindle by the second.... Before long their would not be a single true manual to be found in any car. Then what'll you all do ?? Ride a bike to work ? Hehehehehe
Get a dsg and still be involed in the driving of the car in some fashion without a torque converter robbing power or a cpu overriding my gear changes.
So true.
"Or any of the race series drivers that use the paddle shifters, do they know they're just along for the ride?"
Race car drivers are in it to win. Period. They'll sacrifice the pleasure of driving to be first across the line. If sitting on thumbtacks will make them go a little faster, they'll do it -- I won't.
As far as I'm concerned, that is correct.
"By your logic these people are simply poseurs and not drivers... See how ridiculous that is ?"
Never said (or implied) that they're 'poseurs'. I said they're passengers. They're wonderful people who have made the choice that they want to get from point A to point B in as much comfort and convenience (and/or as fast) as their budget will allow. That's their choice. I never denigrated anyone for choosing that route. The word 'poseur' was introduced to this thread by you, not me. I have nothing against passengers (I've been known to be one myself on occasion).
Actually, there are a few G owners posting here who have accused all 3 owners of being 'poseurs' regardless of what transmission they choose.
"Before long their would not be a single true manual to be found in any car.
The automatic has been around for over fifty years and yet, the manual lives on.
"You can look down your nose at those with slush boxes while your small band of stick-loving drivers continues to dwindle by the second.... Then what'll you all do ?? Ride a bike to work ? Hehehehehe"
You don't have to worry about me. If all manufacturers decide they'll be more profitable selling only automatics your local transmission shop will start advertising auto-to-manual conversion jobs, and I'll be one their first customers. Besides, you're assuming the situation in the US is echoed all over the planet. Talk to a European. Ask him/her if the manual transmission is 'dying'.
True, but with most DOHC 4-valves/cyl. engines the "optimal shift point" is generally easy to figure -- it's the point where the rev limiter kicks in.
Actually, I do understand what you "Live Manual or Die" guys are talking about. I'm just having some Internet fun... Well, I think it's fun...
For the first 15 years of my driving life, I was a die-hard 5 speed manual guy (Saab 99, VW Scirocco, Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo, Acura Integra). And then came the fateful day I was promoted into sales and inherited the Sales Manger's Olds (at 11,000 miles the gas tank ruptured a seam on the TOP of the tank!) and for the next 5 years, boring but servicable domestic, automatic sedans. I did however, teach the evil wife to drive a stick and bought her a Nissan Sentra SE - R (fun, fun, fun) followed by a Saab 900s (fun, very practical. My attempt to avoid an SUV or Minivan) as the family began to grow. These were mine to play with on the weekend. I "retired" (downsized ) from the sales game and bought my company Dodge Intrepid (nice car but very loud and not Honda build quality. But reliable and good looking, good in snow). I believed I would return to the land of the "driver" soon.
Once I began my second career, it was time for a new car. As I was now a commuter, evil wife suggested I drive the Saab for a month of commuting to ensure I wanted a stick. I was sure the commute wouldn't sway me away, I was wrong. It was just no fun shifting between 1-2-3 every 17 seconds, rarely getting above 40mph. After a week, I returned the Saab, bought a Chrysler 300M ( I can't believe I bought a first model year, domestic CHRYSLER! I broke every rule there!) and had a plan. The wife's next car would be a 5 speed (Saab 9-5 or maybe A4 Avant, possibly a BMW 3 wagon? I was looking forward to shopping for her) and I would continue my tradition of enjoying row your own boat driving on the weekend. Ah, but as is often the folly that is my grand planning, the wife said she was done with manuals, she commutes too and driving to her is just a necessary evil. Hence, the Saab turned into (what else?) a Lexus RX 300 as our family grew again. She's very happy, therefore I'm very happy.
Will there be a manual tranny again in my future? Who knows. Until then, I will continue to drive whatever I choose, understanding those that rhapsodize about their fabulous fifth to third slingshot passes on I95 or deftly selecting just the right gear for a sweeper on their favorite hometown back roads. But I won't label people...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
So today I'm a passenger in my own cars, which by the way, is fine with me.
Why are you shifting that much? Keep the car in second. That's good for 0-62.
understanding those that rhapsodize about their fabulous fifth to third slingshot passes on I95 or deftly selecting just the right gear for a sweeper on their favorite hometown back roads. But I won't label people...
That'd be 6th to 3rd. :P
Oh ! A Bimmer-ophile admitting a necessity for slush box... blasphemous, KD. Out of here, and in your corner and don't come out ever again....
Laurasdad: Excellent post.
Ouch. You got me.
"...shifting between 1-2-3 every 17 seconds."
Sounds like Heaven.
To me, it's actually the worst of both worlds: it's really not anything like operating a manual trans -- coordinating the clutch while rowing away on the lever -- but it's also often not very good as an automatic, sometimes shifting too abruptly and doing other strange things (at least early SMG).
Now I would be interested in trying out Audi's DSG trans. I've seen the cutaways and decription of how it works, and it looks like a very efficient replacement for an automatic. But I still don't think it's a very good compromise with a true manual trans.
Had the automatic transmission come first, would there have been a need to invent a manual transmission?
One of my customers said that to me when I asked if he would prefer manual or automatic.
Don't get me wrong, I love manual transmissions for the sheer fun factor.
thanks!
That's why an SMG type of vehicle is appealing.
Keep on shiftin'!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Man, I am old.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
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Current crop of drivers don't know how good they have it with slick shifting manuals from BMW 3 series, Honda/Acuras.