Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Last weekend my son and his family came for a visit. Without stowing anything we were able to carry four adults, my grandson in his child seat, a baby stroller plus assorted odds and ends. My wife, who was detailed to the third row, commented on just how much room and comfort she had back there. As previously stated, the '06 Odyssey is our seventh minivan in the past 22 years. I cannot ever remember having to remove all the seats in any of them. We did take out two seats for a long trip in our 1990 Trans Sport but they only weighed 35 pounds. The back seat of the Ody flips and folds in an instant should I ever need the extra space.
Most DC minivan owners like the JUST RIGHT feeling when driving and riding in a DC minivan...and yes, I have driven and also been a passenger MANY times in a 2001 Odyssey EX to compare with my less expensive 2002 T&C LX.
The greatest differences between the Odyssey EX and the T&C LX is the quieter interior and superior sound system of the T&C.
Probably JUST RIGHT to many folks like the famous Floridians celebrating their golden age down there. One of my previous reps for my company is from that "crowd" and always mentioned he liked the boaty ride of his Buick Le Sabre that made me sick whenever he drove me around.
The floaty/boaty quiet ride of the Buick LeSabre is preferred by more people than the truck like ride and noisy interior of a United Parcel delivery van, farm truck, or public transit bus.
I'd like to see the results from poll you must have administered to arrive at that conclusion, if it wouldn't be too much trouble. I would rather be able to more aptly steer around trouble on the freeway with less drama AND have a great "BMW-like" ride than bob-and-weave down the road.
No, I believe the statement you need to make is
The floaty/boaty quiet ride of the Buick LeSabre is preferred by me more than the truck like ride and noisy interior of a United Parcel delivery van, farm truck, or public transit bus.
I'd also like to ask when you drove for UPS, rode a tractor, and came to the conclusion that they rode similarly. I know this isn't sarcastic bashing of people and their choice of car is it??
Nooooo, Couldn't be from hans...
MODERATOR
Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review
The greatest differences between the Odyssey EX and the T&C LX is the quieter interior and superior sound system of the T&C.
Just right for who?? Not me and I owned a 2001 DCX for 4+ years. Now as far as which one was quieter it is the Ody with the small exception of really bad freeways(maybe 5% of the time) As far as I'm concerned most standard sound systems are not very good. Both the Ody and the caravan are lacking. As far as just right the Ody is the most researched most wanted minivan. So it what people want the DCX is what people settle for!!
BTW: UPS has one of the sweetest rides on earth - the #88 Ford Fusion driven by Dale Jarrett in NASCAR Nextel Cup.
Comparing the Odyssey ride to the ride in a truck is as honest as calling the Caravan, Town & Country, and Sienna ride a pitching, rolling, boaty ride.
I have driven a 2001 Odyssey EX many times and it is NOT as quiet and smooth riding as is my 2002 T&C LX even though the Odyssey driver's seat is more comfortable than the driver's seat in my T&C. The Odyssey EX has more road AND wind noise than the T&C which is strange because the Odyssey has no roof rack cross bars. The sound system in the Odyssey is VERY poor and cheap sounding compared to the sound system in my T&C.
The T&C is quicker accelerating off the line altho the Odyssey has better acceleration for passing when the vehicle is going faster than 45 MPH.
The Odyssey is a fine minivan with many nice features. However, for many people it is overpriced when compared to DC minivans with equal or more nice features.
Not sure why you think that, because the Odyssey has more torque.
DCX/HONDA/TOYOTA Acceleration numbers.
0-30 3.3 sec, 3.1 sec, 3.0 sec
0-40 4.9 4.5 ,4.7
0-50 7.4 6.5, 6.7
0-60 10.2 8.6, 8.8
0-70 13.4 11.6, 12.1
0-80 17.3 15.5, 15.9
0-90 25.5 19.5, 20.2
Acceleration numbers from Motor Trend for the Dodge, Honda, and Toyota. The Dodge is the slowest off the line (0-30) as well as all other tests. The Sienna actually beats both 0-30, but falls a little behind the Ody after that.
I'm still not sure why you come back to the merits of Dodge's acceleration, when it is dead last in the biggest three sellers. Who races minivans, anyways?
Go back and read the postings. :shades:
Here is the quote from the story: (I didn't edit anything in it)
"Uh-oh! The cleverest seat arrangement in minivan history earns a lowly fourth place, after a $400 million investment to produce this supposedly "all-new platform"? What happened?
Why, then, the fourth place? The top-level 3.8-liter pushrod engine simply can't cut it in this crowd, slowest by far in acceleration and the guzzler of the group at 17 mpg on our test trip (EPA ratings give it a tie with the Odyssey and Quest). It's coarse in its noises and vibrations, too. You feel them in the steering wheel and gas pedal.
Over-the-road handling was imprecise. The path varies with throttle position on acceleration, a mild but annoying form of torque steer that's really inexcusable given the meager torque. Add to that a general steering vagueness, coupled with a lack of discipline in controlling suspension motions, and you have flabby handling.
Apparently, the suspension tuners went for ride smoothness in a big way. They scored well on that point—ride quality is close to Toyota supple—but the Grand Caravan is a floaty boat on the interstate, particularly on windy days.
thegrad
Proof of where the Ody makes the others smell its hot air, especially the poor guy at 10.2. It becomes more dramatic/pronounced at 70 - 100 MPH. Try it - It is fun, Mon!
It has the most interest. What I think is funny is how many non Honda Owners post there and mostly not to help just to try and pick. Which in turn makes more posts.
The Ody is the most researched Minivan on Edmund's! (of course no one knows exactly what they're researching the most....could be searching for quality issues and recalls for all anyone knows).
LOL....not to sound like a Politician here, but I have driven MANY BMWs (including a new M5 recently), I own a 3 series BMW, and NO HONDA or ACURA is "BMW-like". And to make that statement in same post as an FWD, 2 box Ody is sooooo insane. You Ody guys should do what Clinton claimed and not inhale!
Are we comparing 2001s? or 2001 DCX vs 2005 Ody? or 2005s?
Hans...I can see how Ody owners might mistake their Minivan for a UPS truck or Tractor, when you consider the wind noise issue many have, or the brake grinding, rough VCM idle or ABS startup noises. Hmmmm maybe John Deer-like moreso than BMW!
Honestly though, if you are wanting a better handling minivan, how could someone pick the quoted "flabby handling" Dodge versus the eager responses of the Honda. On the same token, if you want a more "Buick-like" ride and don't care about things like steering accuracy and torque steer, you should go with DCX over the firmer Honda. Agreed?
EVER is a pretty big word, have you considered actually driving, say, maybe a Magnum or 300C? You opinion would probably change greatly.
Honestly though, if you are wanting a better handling minivan, how could someone pick the quoted "flabby handling" Dodge versus the eager responses of the Honda. On the same token, if you want a more "Buick-like" ride and don't care about things like steering accuracy and torque steer, you should go with DCX over the firmer Honda. Agreed?
That is YOUR opinion (and subtle bash). My DCX van steers accurately and rides quietly and smoothly. Tha is MY opinion. ALL FWD vehicles have torque steer, even your touted Ody. Generally the more HP a FWD vehicle makes, the more Torque steer it has. The only way Honda is getting around Torgue is with AWD i.e...it's new Acura RL.
They have the same peak torque with the DCX 3.8L having its peak at a lower engine speed then either Honda 3.5L motor. <4500rpm, the DCX 3.8L has more torque, which is where 98% of minivan drivers stay.
Yep and thats why the ody sells close to sticker price. Maybe it's because people want a minivan that handles well has plenty of standard safety and is very comfortable. Forums are probably one of the worst places for information. You can easily have one person overtake the forum and then start calling people out without even talking about the real issues. Sound familiar???
Torque is not that important if you can't manage it properly. Thats why the ody has a better 0-60 time and is much better in passing speed testing(thats were I would like to have some get up and go) My Caravan just made noise after 50 mph and went nowhere so sometimes I had issues merging onto the freeway. Those days are history!!
Maybe you should exhale that stuff is getting to your head.They say it's the BMW of minivans which is much different from BMW. Let me explain that means it handles with more feedback then other minivans, its just a desciption man why all the issues! Of course my favorite is the Maybach of minivans!!
You haven't slipped back into time... to 1999 have you? :sick: Put on a little "Prince" music and party on. :shades:
From looking at the Honda Ody prices paid forum, most Odys seem to be going for close to invoice to about $100 over...for most models. Someone posted that carsdirect.com had the LX,EX and EX-L listed at $60 under invoice. Didn't you say you got your Ody for about $200 over invoice about a year ago? May not be long before Honda is offering those 10k rebates like the Ford did with the Freestar.
I got mine for a couple hundred over invoice last April. It's just a matter of going in and bargaining or finding a dealer willing to negotiate. I'm sure there was a time when NOBODY would deal on Odys; Honda used to have a very limited production available for them. Now they're much better on production and are fulfilling demand. The only time you have to offer rebates (this has nothing to do with a dealer's sales price) is when inventory is stacking up and dealers aren't placing new orders. The domestics have to produce constant to maintain fixed overhead and have very few flexible production lines. Honda rarely if ever offers any type of incentive simply because if a model is not selling well (last year the Accord and Civic were off) they can flex same-facility production to other vehicles.
Rebates also harm resale value and residuals, so Honda and Toyota use them very sparingly. Honda more so than Toyota. I've bought a dozen new vehicles in the last 10 years. With the exception of my wifes Lexus and my sons Acura (high demand S model) I've never paid more than $500 over invoice for anything GM, Dodge, Honda, Toyota, VW, etc.
ALL FWD vehicles have torque steer, even your touted Ody. Generally the more HP a FWD vehicle makes, the more Torque steer it has
Car and Driver was concerned about the problem the Dodge had with torque steer, and didn't have any issues with torque steer in the Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. Their concern was that the Dodge had it, despite it's (and I quote) "meager torque."
The only way Honda is getting around Torgue is with AWD i.e...it's new Acura RL.
The only Honda I know of that has torque steer issues is the Acura TL 6-speed. Seems like they cut that problem off at the head with the new Acura RL.
Well I looked at carsdirect and it's 1800 to 2500 off sticker and not long ago end of 2004 Ody was getting sticker plus!. Now the local Mazda dealer(Irvine Big Store)had all MPV's in stock at 8K off(9k if you finanace). I think they need to go to 11K. As I've said before forums are bad places for information. :P
Yeah, yet I keep coming back to them! I am mainly watching the insurgency of subcompacts soon to arrive (Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Versa). All start under $13k or so, and about 110 hp. It's kind of a neat forum with foreigners that already drive these cars telling us about them before they arrive. That's when the forum thing becomes neat again!
Don't forget that these numbers are for the 3.8L DC van. How do the 3.3L vans do?
Huh how about a 80%+ issues ratio would this be a problem??
DCX has sold 11 million minivans, let me know when Odyssey sells 1 million,
If this doesn't make DCX the McDonald's of minivans, I don't know what does.....
If this doesn't make DCX the McDonald's of minivans, I don't know what does.....
Quantity just makes it less rare not better! BTW I'll take fries with that DGC combo meal!!
On the story of sales...does anyone know the approx sales numbers of the 1995-1998 model? I know that Honda was shooting for 120,000 anually once production got underway in Alabama in 1999-onward. In 1999 they started at 60k, but soon doubled it to approx 120k units a year. Any info on the current rate?
Thanks guys...
thegrad
What do you think I looked at the last 2 pages of posts on the DCX problem board and 80%+ were problems no solutions(yo do that etc)/questions(How hard is it to add a DVD player??). As far as what your saying I'm not so sure most of the time! Well maybe it's just the 20+ years I've spent as a FSE thats screwing me up? Of course I understand almost everything my customer wants Wierd!
BTW someone did say this on the DCX problem board this week.
Guess no one answers these questions. Nevermind. Kinda a useless forum
Yep he wins the prize!! Most DCX van owners only worry about what the Honda guys are saying!
2001 Odd EX vs 2002 T&C LX. I drove one son's 2001 Odd EX (purchased new by him) quite frequently and compared it to the 2002 GC Sport another son purchased used.
The Odd is noisier and has fewer comfort features than the GC Sport (and my T&C LX clone). Additionally, the 2001 Odd with 58,000 miles is noiser :sick: with fewer comfort features than my daughters 1999 GC SE that has 84,000 miles.
MODERATOR
Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review
You haven't slipped back into time... to 1999 have you? Put on a little "Prince" music and party on.
From looking at the Honda Ody prices paid forum, most Odys seem to be going for close to invoice to about $100 over...for most models. Someone posted that carsdirect.com had the LX,EX and EX-L listed at $60 under invoice. Didn't you say you got your Ody for about $200 over invoice about a year ago? May not be long before Honda is offering those 10k rebates like the Ford did with the Freestar.
I can't win here with socalawd. If I said there's a $6000 difference between DCX and Ody, I'd get the "$100 over invoice" line and telling me difference is only $1500. Guess it depends on day of the week?
Frank Marcus (Motortrends) use to work for DCX as an engineer, is just a car geek like many of us. It's Opinion mostly here guys, that's why I use numbers from CR as they're more exacting with their test methods, not go geeks buzzing around Las Vegas for a weekend in minivans!!
You clearly have no comprehension of engine design and performance. I've explained why the Honda 3.5L has better WOT performance. I won't even bother again.
I wish people would time their average driving 0-60 times. It's typically 20 seconds in daily driving (if we even get to 60mph). That's a far cry from 8.5 or 10.2 seconds, or whatever we want to quote today. At that pace, automatic transmissions would have shifted at 3000rpm, well below the peak torque of almost any modern engine except some diesels. In 12k miles on my minivan, I have yet to go to WOT at any speed in any gear. I realize some people on here do that in their minivans, but 99.99% do not. Therefore, the claim of WOT acceleration time differences and peak horsepower at 5500rpm is irrelavent. for most people.
I have sporty cars and prefer manual transmissions in them. I regularly take advantage of peak horsepower near redline in my other vehicles, but not in my van. I think that most others drive their vans closer to my style, not yours.
Probably due to DCX owners not having problems to worry about, so Honda guys become a source of entertainment for us
Must have been the only Ody dealership within a thousand miles?
In July 2004 I test drove a new Ody that was offered to me for about $500 UNDER invoice.That $500 was the "marketing support" incentive Honda was giving to its dealerships at the time to move the old Odys out for the new 2005's coming in. So, not much demand for Ody at that time. The $500 under invoice price I mentioned didn't include about $1,000 in what I thought to be pretty much worthless dealer add ons.(i.e fabric protection, undercoating, pinstripes, mudflaps etc)Total discount was $4,000 off a $26,500 van. Discount on 2004 MPV(since you are expressing interest)was $5,500 on $26,000 van.
With Odys going for close to invoice in most regions of the country, I can see Honda using rebates, or most likely incentives like the $500 "marketing support", in the near future.
"As I've said before forums are a bad places for information"
I agree. Your info on the MPV is bogus. They go for sticker man. :shades: