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2007 BMW 328, ix 4 Dr Sedan
Window Sticker
$44,770
Purchase Price
$44,385
Odometer
0 miles
Program
Bank Lease A
Lease Payment
$730 per month
Term
39 Months
Mileage Allowance
39,000 Total Miles
Residual Value
$23,244
Purchase Option
$23,594
Money Factor
0.00241
Gap Insurance
Included
Down Payment
$0
Due At Signing
$730 + sales tax and title fees
Includes: First Months Payment
I would go with this car considering the performance difference with respect to the extra cost and better warrantee coverage.
Regards,
OW
I have to assume that is the case with the Volvo S80. Because if you had, you would realize that one could put all of the engine upgrades in the world on that car and you still have handling and driving dynamics that are at the bottom of the class. At least the "performance" class that you are trying to put it in. If you just want to save money, I'll sell you my 1995 Nissan Maxima 5-speed with 154k miles for $4,000 and you will have a car that is more fun to drive than a 2007 Volvo S80. Anyone that drives a Volvo S80 and comes away with an excited feeling needs to bottle that and sell it to the pharmaceutical industry.
It's fine by me that you don't feel the need to have your "butt in a designer label suit" to feel well dressed. But you really need to get that butt in the cars you opine on if you expect to have any credibility. Your practice of reading magazines and polling friends and family to form your own opinions is a sad commentary.
You can red-carpet lease a MKZ for in the three-hundreds with zero down.
Rocky
So I presented the Bentley Continental GT to her as one our next vehicle considerations. (She mistakenly thought she had seen this new Chrysler in a nearby mall parking lot! - I helped her with the I.D.)
She is more enamored with the new 750 in black and that's a steep discount!
Regards,
OW
For the sake of it...
If I buy the car based on magazine, my rear end would be in the 330i.
If I buy the car based on best bang for the buck, my rear end would be in the G35.
If I buy the car based on brand loyalty, my rear end would be in the TL.
If I buy the car based on polling friends, my rear end would be in the Porsche Boxter.
and last but not least...
If I buy the car based on polling family members, my rear end would in a Camry or Accord.
At the end, my rear end is not in any of those cars listed above. Why? Because I went out test drived most of them (except the Boxter) and came to the conclusion that the IS350 is the car for ME.
For those people who thinks the S80, S60, 9-3 and MKZ belong in this segment please go out and test drive the 335i and come back to tell us that those cars are in the same level "performance-wise" as the Bimmer. At the same time, go sit in a IS350 and tell us that they are in the same level "luxury-wise" as the baby Lex.
I rest my case...
We like what we like but saying a S80, isn't in the same league as the Audi A8 is ludacris IMHO. You are paying a extra $30K+ to have 4-rings on your grill. If that's what you want to do
(which I doubt many in this forum will buy a A8) that's okay by me. You have my blessings.
Rocky
habitat, honestly how many people in here really have driven cars they write about dude. They claim it but I'm honest and say i haven't. Seriously, think about it. Driving a 330i doesn't qualify one driving a 335i. I can't drive the 07' S80 because it's not out yet. The local BMW dealer doesn't have any 335i's yet to drive yet. He's still trying to sell his 06' left-over 330i's.
I have to assume that is the case with the Volvo S80. Because if you had, you would realize that one could put all of the engine upgrades in the world on that car and you still have handling and driving dynamics that are at the bottom of the class.
Read above post !!!!
At least the "performance" class that you are trying to put it in. If you just want to save money, I'll sell you my 1995 Nissan Maxima 5-speed with 154k miles for $4,000 and you will have a car that is more fun to drive than a 2007 Volvo S80. Anyone that drives a Volvo S80 and comes away with an excited feeling needs to bottle that and sell it to the pharmaceutical industry.
I guess we all have different opinions on what performance should be. Is a Audi A8 a performance car ? I see many people blab about cars that they claim are performance cars in here. So I assumed the S80 with its 315 hp and 4-C's chassis would qualify it as a performance sedan ?
It's fine by me that you don't feel the need to have your "butt in a designer label suit" to feel well dressed. But you really need to get that butt in the cars you opine on if you expect to have any credibility. Your practice of reading magazines and polling friends and family to form your own opinions is a sad commentary.
I guess I could lie like many others in this forum and say I driven this car, and that car, and BS the forum. :confuse:
Please.....
Rocky
Audi, IMHO hasn't had a great interior since the old A200's.
Rocky
You got slammed for it because you were comaring apples to oranges like always. Nobody would slam you if you compare the S80 to something like the M and GS.
....#2 I can afford much more than a Azera.
Good for you, so let's drop the Azera. You were the one who brought it up.
#3 I'm just defending S80, and MKZ, from getting steam-rolled in this forum. A guy buys a MKZ, and likes it and then gets hammered for liking it better than a 335i.
It's fine that people buy MKZ over the bimmer because they like it better. However, that doesn't mean the MKZ is better in performance nor luxury than the 3er. Also, just because they are roughly in the same price range doesn't mean that the MKZ belongs in this segment. Those people got hammered because like you, they are comparing apples to oranges not because they like the MKZ better.
A CTS-V will spank the 335i and current M3 in a race, so what !!!!
What race? A drag race? Wanna put these 3 in Nuburing for a couple laps and see which one comes out as the winner?
We like what we like but saying a S80, isn't in the same league as the Audi A8 is ludacris IMHO.
Rock, in your instinct, please tell us what percentage of people whom shop for a LS, A8, 7er and S-class will consinder the S80 as an alternative? Your answer will indicate how much you know about the upper end auto market.
Rocky
I also know many folks that buy cars without spending any butt time in the seat before purchase. I did this with my former Acura TL.
Rocky
Whatever....I think its more of a apples to apples comparo using the S80 vs. A8 vs. LS comparo. The Q is more worthy than the M in a comparo. The GS, is more sport than luxury in my eyes.
What race? A drag race? Wanna put these 3 in Nuburing for a couple laps and see which one comes out as the winner?
2008' CTS-V vs. 08' M3 vs. 08' 335i - Would love the oppertunity. I can already predict the winner quite easily.
Rock, in your instinct, please tell us what percentage of people whom shop for a LS, A8, 7er and S-class will consinder the S80 as an alternative? Your answer will indicate how much you know about the upper end auto market.
My instinct is the Lexus LS, will certainly get cross shopped by a unbiased consumer with the S80. Audi A8, I'd guess 30-40% because both are AWD. The 7er would be 5-10% S-class 20-25% if the consumer wanted AWD.
Rocky
So are you going to claim to have driven every car we've talked about also ?
Rocky
However, don't get me wrong here. When I say that the S80 doesn't belong in the same category as the A8 and LS I mean it doesn't belong because of the luxury factor. Can it out-run the A8 and LS? Maybe, but definitely not in straight line performance.
But it seems to me you don't see the value of an A8. That's fine, but there are those who do.
I'm not trying to defend Rocky's position on a car that's not available yet ... but you know I like to be as fair as possible, so I have to call you out on the fact that you are doing EXACTLY the same thing as he. You are condemning a car you've never driven!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The A8 and the Volvo S80 are not in the class of vehicles we're talking about here, so let's drop them from here on.
Thanks.
As to your first point, performance is an objective measure, so I have to agree that the 335 trumps all. Luxury, on the other hand, has a large degree of subjectivity, so I can't agree with you there.
Now, back to the 335, if I was spending $40k and could live with its size, then great. The 335 seems like a GREAT car, and I'd love to get one. However, if I wanted to spend less, wanted AWD, and an adjustable suspension, with incredibly comfortable seats, I'd pick the S60R. So I'm still not sure why so many folks here are adverse to this car.
As I asked another poster who never replied ... have you driven an S60R?
I'm not saying its the best here. I'm not saying you should pick it over the precious bmw. All I'm saying is that it has its own merits and certainly deserves to sit in the forum alongside the others in this category.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
We like what we like but saying a S80, isn't in the same league as the Audi A8 is ludacris IMHO. You are paying a extra $30K+ to have 4-rings on your grill. If that's what you want to do
If that's your reasoning, why not buy a Toyota Avalon? You are paying an extra $30K+ for the Volvo.... you don't even have that 4-rings. :P
qbrozen, I'm with you on the S60R, being worthy.
Rocky
Rocky
How many people are going to buy just a basic 335i ???? sounds like a waste to me....To get one half-way nice you need to spend $45K
Rocky, I have leather, comfort access, xenon headlights, automatic wipers, power seats, auto dual hvac and park distance control. Does it sound like my car is stripped? I have options that aren't even available on the lincoln (manual, swivel headlights and comfort access).
Lutz didn't say in what markets the platform might be used. Given the resurgence of rear-wheel-drive in the United States — and the popularity of vehicles like the 3-Series — it seems highly likely such an architecture would be used in America.
Vaporware. The 2007 335i exists, as does the 2007 CTS-V. Compare the two:
2007 CTS-V with performance shocks, dvd navi, leather = $54,600, basic GM warranty, maintenance not included.
16/25 mpg - gas guzzler tax
335i sedan with sport package, premium pack, navi, sirius radio, leather, = $46,100. 4 year warranty - maintenance included.
19/29 mpg
CTS-v - 0-60 in 5.1 seconds (http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=102194/pageNumber=1?- synpartner=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/new/2007/cadillac/ctsv/100704801/road- testarticle.html&articleId=102194)
1/4 mile in 13.5 at 107
Slalom - couldn't find on edmunds' tests
Skidpad - .87 (not from edmunds' tests)
335i - 0-60 in 4.8 seconds (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=117669/pageId=1- 05658)
1/4 mile in 13.3 at 105.9
Slalom 68.4 mph
Skidpad .88
8k difference in price and you don't pay for maintenance on the 335i. On the Caddy R&T's longterm car required brakes for $1490 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=4053&page_numbe- r=2)
Hmmm, which one has the higher cost-to-own rating over 3 years? And doesn't offer better performance?
And nobody is going to cross-shop a lexus LS with a POJ Volvo S80. It simply won't happen. The kinda cat with the dough for a Lexus would never consider a bargain basement ford wannabe.
For the slow kids in the audience: entry level luxury performance sedans. That's the forum. The MKZ is not a performance sedan.
Rocky
There's a reason the MKZ is thousands less than the other cars...it's not supposed to be going after those buyers. You're comparing a FWD family hauler (with an old platform) to performance sedans. The ES330, Maxima, Milan, Saab, Volvo S40/60 are the competitors to the MKZ.
0-60 in 5.1 seconds is edmunds test. Even motor trend had it rated at 4.7 and I've seen 4.6 in other tests qith a Q- mile in 13.0 flat.
Add 200 more horsepower to the Super-V that will be here the spring of 2008'. BMW, won't have a car on the market that will touch it. :P
Hmmm, which one has the higher cost-to-own rating over 3 years? And doesn't offer better performance?
Your providing the data the BMW will cost you more money to own. I priced up a 335i Sedan and I as sitting at $53K. The CTS-V was $53k and I get a GM discount so knock off $6-7 for that. Your avg. Joe will be able to haggle off
$4-5K at a high volume dealer. Minus any other incentives.
You can't do that with a 335i. Free Maintence isn't free, it's already calculated in the selling price. You guys I figured would be sharp enough to already know this stuff. :P Does BMW offer you a 5-year 100K powertrain warranty ? :P
I'll take the extra room and as 2pac says see you in my rearview. :shades: And that is with a 07' CTS-V. What kind of a embarrassment lies ahead for BMW when GM, brings out the Super-V ?
God, it's good to be a GM and Ford fan these days.
Rocky
Rocky
P.S. The MKZ runs 0-60 in the low-mid 6's making it qualify as a performance sedan. "Life's calling. Where to next"
Fictionized CTS-V vs. Fictionized next gen M3 in Nurburing...I'll take the M.
Case closed.
If I didn't have to have adult passengers on occassions I'd love to drive the IS350 with its now defeatable VDIM. It was the car that braught me to edmunds and the live chat with Bob Carter, and was my first day on this site. If it would of had a defeatable VDIM, I would of bought it over the TL. Now I wished I did (bad Acura experience-long story)
Rocky
Thats great just plan on following my lead around the track for the first few miles before I make you slowly disappear.
I in the CTS-V talking hands free to louiswei, "are you still back there" "I don't see you anymore louiswei, I lost you about 3 miles back" :P
Rocky
P.S. Now the case is closed.
Geez Louise, can we please stick to the current time frame. Let's not let the "back to the future" parade begin AGAIN.
as much as I hate admit it I think once Lexus puts the battery pack into the IS350
Get your fact straight. Lexus ain't putting no "battery pack" into the IS350. They are putting the 5.0L V8 into the IS and call it IS500. I don't think Bimmer fans have anything to worry about, although the IS500 might be competitive in straight line performance with the next gen M3 but I think the M will out-perform the IS500 in handling and driving dynamics.
The MKZ runs 0-60 in the low-mid 6's making it qualify as a performance sedan.
Last time I checked, most of the cars in this segment are running the the 5's with the 335i in the high 4's. By the way, since the Accord V6 and Camry V6 are also running in the low-mid 6's why don't we include them as performance sedans as well.
Just checking...
actually, the 6-speed accord is under 6 secs. And it is a performance sedan. Just not a performance LUXURY sedan.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Rocky
0-60 in 5.1 seconds is edmunds test. Even motor trend had it rated at 4.7 and I've seen 4.6 in other tests qith a Q- mile in 13.0 flat.
Well, the R&T article also had it at 5.0 seconds. Shrug.
2008 CTS-V
Vapor ware.
I priced up a 335i Sedan and I as sitting at $53K.
That's why i built out a 335i with the same feartures as the CTS-V - premium, sport, sirius and navi gives you the same fearures for 46k. You may not like that but those are the facts, jack.
The CTS-V was $53k and I get a GM discount so knock off $6-7 for that.
I did MSRP to MSRP to keep it reasonable. That's the only way to calculate these.
Free Maintence isn't free, it's already calculated in the selling price. You guys I figured would be sharp enough to already know this stuff. Does BMW offer you a 5-year 100K powertrain warranty ?
How much in maintenance will a CTS-V run you over 3 years? I'm putting it at over 2k (as brakes alone will cost $1400 and then add in oil changes and such). Argue all you want, you know it's true.
Vapor ware. As usual - all you talk about is what might be.
The deal you might get for '06 S60 is year end, and model end special, you won't get this great of a deal on the S60 very often. The all new Volvo S60 is expected to come in '08.
As far as luxury is a subject Volvo is among the few (true luxury automaker) that offers a limousine version.
The next 3 years will be a turning point for Saab (legendary for its convertible and aircraft heritage) beginning with the all new 9-5 in 2009 based on the engineering marvel of the Saab Aero X
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=109477
Are you in fear of the future or something. Is this BMW's last stand ?
Get your fact straight. Lexus ain't putting no "battery pack" into the IS350. They are putting the 5.0L V8 into the IS and call it IS500. I don't think Bimmer fans have anything to worry about, although the IS500 might be competitive in straight line performance with the next gen M3 but I think the M will out-perform the IS500 in handling and driving dynamics.
Well I've read different. Perhaps since you are VIP, and can drive cars that aren't yet available to the market you might have some Top Secret inside knowledge ? Last time I new the IS500 was still a concept. Perhaps things have changed ?
Last time I checked, most of the cars in this segment are running the the 5's with the 335i in the high 4's. By the way, since the Accord V6 and Camry V6 are also running in the low-mid 6's why don't we include them as performance sedans as well.
They are missing the Luxury part of the equation.
Rocky
Rocky
I also suppose you go out with your track equipment and hook it up to your 335i, etc... and get your personal track results. :P
spare me a minute as I laugh..... :P
Rocky
Rocky