Buick Park Avenue Maintenance & Repair

dkeg · August 2012

I have the EXACT same problem as rkwood123. Plus: how do you get the door panel off when the door is closed? (I have never used this forum before and don't really understand how it works. Where are the answers? to the questions. How can I contact rkwood123 to find out if he found a solution?)

obrien040362 · September 2012

I have a 1995 Buick Park Avenue and both windows on the driver side don't work but the windows on the passenger side work with the drivers switch. The back seat window on the driver side does not work with the back seat switch.

Do you think it is a switch or do I have two bad motors?

Thanks for you help

Mr_Shiftright · September 2012

Might be a fuse. Many cars have separate fuses for left and right windows. It's worth a shot!

imidazol97 · September 2012

Pop the switchbeds out of the door armrests and then check for power to the right wires. You will really need a circuit diagram. I would suspect switch contacts first and bad motor second. For the rears you have the added possibility of a broken wire in the front door rubber guard to the door pillar from all the flexing.

I'll see if I have a diagram for a 93 Park Ave.

obrien040362 · September 2012

There are four prongs on the top and 4 prongs on the bottom. two prongs in the middle. How do I test it?

How do you post a pic on this forem?

imidazol97 · September 2012

Download these and print them out to save them. Note that the master switch assembly goes across the top of both pages. The terminals have letters and the colors of the wires to them will verify the labels that should be on the switch block. In the diagram of the master switch assembly, the ground is provided by the "bottom" contacts and the power comes in on the "top"contacts. Those are shown as lines across wtih the switches being moved to contact the ground or the power connector.

Because the front window driver uses a control module, you can't access the motor directly without removing the door panel.

For the driver rear, you can test for continuity by pulling J and K at driver door contacts and using a resistance meter. Then if you show proper circuit there, you can remove door switch and test for continuity from E to B to test motor. You can also check rear by verifying A has battery power and E and B both have ground (through the master switch block on driver door).
This schematic is for a 93 leSabre and ParkAve they're in the same manual. If anything doesn't seem to match for your 95, then don't trust it and go tot he library and download a diagram for your year. But most things stay the same.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/imidazol97/PowerWindows1.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/imidazol97/PowerWindows2.jpg

imidazol97 · September 2012

>post a picture

Get a free membership on photobucket.com.

Then upload the pictures you want to post to there. Then you pick the data under the picture when it's in your album that gives the address for the direct link. Post that in your post here like I've done, and the reader will be able to see your picture.

gerry5257 · September 2012

were you able to fix this? I have the exact same prob with a 95 Buick PA and thanks to imidazol97 I now have a check list of items to go through.

spriteman · March 2013

imidazol97 - I believe I may have the same problem that you discussed in Msg 49 in the Buick Park Avenue forum. I have read all the msgs in the forum and would like to know if you could assist in diagnosing my 1998 BPA issue. If you are inclined to help I would be glad to hear from you. I can post here or you can msg me privately at p t d y e 4 1 1 at g m a i l d o t c o m

spriteman · March 2013

Hello all,

I'm new to the BPA forums but have read most of the posts from the last 10-12 years - insert way to much time on my hands jokes here.

In Msg 49 a problem is described that matches my problem but I am at the very beginning of the diagnosis process.

Here are my specifics:

1998 Buick Park Avenue - 83K miles - purchased used from dealer in 2000 and have not had any major problems with the car since then. Oil changed and fluid levels checked in Dec. of 2012.

Last Tuesday (03-12-13) I was doing some driving on the Interstate here in Central Florida. Was doing 75 mph or so and no problems - trip to my destination was about 45 mins. A few hours later I was returning home when I noticed just a slight rough running condition. I checked the digital gauges and saw only normal readings. A few minutes later the red light on the dash temp gauge came on. I switched the digital gauge over to temp and saw a 250 degree reading.

I immediately slowed to 55 just to see if that would lower the temp which it did. It dropped into the low 130 range. I considered pulling over and checking everything out but I had not seen any white smoke/water vapor coming from the exhaust and did not smell any oil burning/coolant smell.

About 20 mins later I stopped to get gas, turned off the engine and put in a few gallons and when I got back in to start up, the ignition engaged and turned the starter motor but the engine would not start right away. Other than being a little warm - 220 degrees or so - I did not see any problems. I continued cranking and after a minute of 3 to 4 cranking tries the engine finally fired up. I assumed that this was due to the extra heat but wouldn't cause permanent damage.

In just a couple of mins I was home and I shut down the car. After just a couple of mins I came out to check everything out. I immediately saw that the overflow canister for the coolant was empty. Since the radiator was hot I could not open the radiator cap. I had a gallon of coolant concentrate which I poured into the coolant canister and mixed in another gallon of fresh water.

I tried to start the engine again hoping to circulate the coolant into the engine and radiator to cool it off and after just a couple of tries it did start. The coolant immediately drained out of the coolant canister to the radiator - or so I thought. After just a few mins more I was able to get the radiator cap off and upon inspection I could not see a coolant level down the spout. So I made a run for more coolant.

When I returned I gave it another gallon of coolant concentrate this time directly into the radiator. It ate that right up as well including another gallon of water. At this point I know something is wrong because I checked the coolant capacity in the owner's manual and it was it was 13 quarts. I tried to start it once more but this time the engine would not turn over and I heard a metal clank while trying to start. I didn't recognize the sound. At this point I am starting to think I have caused serious damage to the engine. So, I decided to put it up for the night and I would take a fresh look at it in the morning.

The next day I got my neighbor to check it out with me since he is a heavy equipment mechanic. He had a remote starter and I checked out the starter underneath the car and saw that the top gear housing for the solenoid had sheared off. So, I made a trip to my local salvage yard and replaced the starter. Got it on and attempted to start the engine but the engine would not turn over. The solenoid would engage but the engine was not moving.

We got a large socket and placed it on the main pulley and tried to turn it. It would maybe move 1" in one direction and that was it. We then inspected the air intake manifold and saw coolant and some even ran out once we removed the boot connecting the air box with the manifold.

His thinking was that the oil probably super-heated and caused some internal component to seize. Maybe a piston connecting rod to one of the journals. I'm not that familiar with engine temps and how that raises the internal oil/coolant temps. And how high those temps have to get to do damage.

So, at this point I begin to make plans to change out the engine with a salvage yard engine. But, I decide to do a little more searching on the internet for possible causes and solutions to my problem. At that point I come across the Edmunds Buick PA Forum site and MSG 49 in particular.

I am wondering if all I have is a bad upper/lower intake manifold gasket set and the motor is hydrolocked as mentioned in the earlier post.

I am hoping the folks here that really know their stuff could help me out with a straight forward diagnosis as I break down and inspect my engine.

If anyone needs any further info please let me know and I will post it.

Thanks,

TD

bowfan · March 2013

Hey TD, Not a problem. It sounds like your upper intake manifold (UIM) has done the norm. There is a little metal stove pipe that goes through the lower part of the UIM or plenum, which allows exhaust to be mixed with the air as part of your exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system. That stove pipe comes into close contact with that plastic plenum, and the original design has a water jacket encircling it to keep it cool. But plastic and heat don't mix, it dries out over time, it then cracks and water & coolant starts to leak in and mix with the air. When you are running, it probably burns off the little stream of fluid making it past the crack. When the engine cools the fluid leaks past the intake valves and fills some of your cylinders.

Air compresses, fluid doesn't. Hence your engine won't turn.

I've heard the clank and had the failure in my '98 twice.

Pull your spark plugs and then try to turn it over. Do NOT tell your wife to lean over and watch closely to see if fluid comes out while you sit inside the car and crank it

If it spins freely without the plugs in it, you are probably OK as long as you don't let it sit for a couple months. Solution for me has never been a replaced engine, just a new UIM. The new UIM has a new design, as well as a downsized stovepipe. I don't know if the redesign has thicker water jacket walls or no water jacket at all...? It's supposed to be a lifetime fix. This is what I put on after #2 failure

So you want to : get as much fluid out of the cylinders as possible, replace the UIM, change your oil, add coolant, fire it up and watch it steam for a while while it gets any remaining water out.

While you have it apart, you should go ahead and replace the LIM gaskets as well, they only cost about $45 at Amazon. Old design was plastic and tended to leak, the new design is aluminum and is supposedly a lifetime fix.

You could probably get the job done in an afternoon by yourself if you have the tools, including torque wrenches. If you do replace the LIM gaskets that will add a little time because you clean the old parts.

How many miles do you have on your car now?

Please let us know how it goes

imidazol97 · March 2013

The big mistake was not putting coolant/water directly into the radiator when the reservoir showed low. That allowed the engine to overheat.

With the relatively low miles, I'd try to resurrect the engine if the test without plugs seems okay for cranking.

Drain the oil and change filter. Put in cheapest oil from Walmart and cheap filter. Just get the coolant out that's in the old oil and on the bearings, and crank the engine to move oil to the bearings even if it won't start. May need to charge your battery while you're working on the car.

The old UIM should be replaced with one that has the metal sleeve in the EGR tunnel to keep the heat from affecting the plastic in local spots. APN, ineed parts.com. It's called the Sure Fix.
http://www.ineedparts.com/gm-intake-sure-fix-manifold-kit.html

You want the metal sleeved lower intake gasket between the lower metla intake and the heads: it's sleeved in aluminum and sold by GM at the dealers or Rockauto may have it (rockauto.com), and this may be the FelPro version (who probably makes the GM version) at APN ineedparts.com.
http://www.ineedparts.com/96-08-lower-intake-gasket-set-3800-v-6-permadryplus.ht- - - ml

You will need the heater bypass elbow tubes because the one comes from the tensioner into the metal lower intake. Get the GM version from the dealer or get the metal Dormano--do not use the plastic Dormans. The o-ring gaskets are better on the GM or metal ones.

Seal the end strips under the lower intake to the block with some silicon sealer to prevent leaks at the corners. Let it dry overnight before putting on the lower intake.

If you are going to do this yourself you'll need to organize where you put various screws and bolts you take out to keep them in order. Take pictures of thiings before taking that part off. You'll need an inch-pound torque wrench.

I'd allow a day and half for this job.

A good diagnosis before the work would be to test compression in all cylinders with oil squirted in to be sure there's no head gasket leak.

Use yahoo.com with my user name here to give me an email and I can send you more help if you're going to do it yourself. Good luck with the repair.

bowfan · March 2013

Here's a few pics of what you might see

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/bowfan/library/3800-UIM-failure

bowfan · March 2013

That's a lot of good info I hadn't thought about. Perfect time to do the elbows. On my '98s there was only one elbow used and one O-ring that goes on the metal pipe of your belt tensioner. ( On some models there are two elbows used.) If yours only has one elbow, you take the O-ring off the elbow you don't use, and put it on the metal fitting. ( this is assuming you bought a kit with two elbows )

One other thing to mention is the MAP sensor. Don't try to pull it out of the UIM, that will probably break it. First take the collar off that holds the MAP (twist then pull). That loosens the plastic fingers that grip the MAP. Then carefully pull the MAP out of the collar.

For what it's worth, the first time it happened to me, my needle gauge was in the red zone, my digital readout showed 250F. I pulled over at a service station as I was on the way to work and added fluid to the radiator + overflow, at the end of the day I went to start it and it went clank.

imidazol97 · March 2013

I've never been clear on which years in which H-body used the metal sleeve as part of the tenioner and which used a 2nd plastic elbow to carry the heater water.

Good thing is the packages usually have both tubes and 4 o-rings and you use which you need.

>needle gauge in the red zone.

The 3800s are somewhat resistant to overheating damage to the heads and gaskets. But I'm concerned that the radiator water was really low and no coolant was being pumped--the temp gauge going to 130 sounds like it was reading air instead of coolant at the top of the engine for atime.

I suggest the sleeved UIM and the metal gaskets for the lower because spending more now over the standard replacements means spriteman won't have to redo this in 75,000 miles. I still laught about my conversation with Dorman when I did the UIM on my 98. It had been replaced by dealer at 75,000 and I was replacing it again at 150,000. Dorman said about 75,000 is the nominal time.

The metal sleeve stuff started years ago on Bonnevilles where a person was putting sleeves in that he made himself. He was asking for used UIMs to be sent to him to try the sleeves he was milliing.

I did the 98 2nd UIM myself and I was sore and in terrible shape by the end of 2 days of leaning over the engine. I recommend unless someone is used to working in that position, that they plan to go slow with breaks to do this work.

I really recommend separating the bolts and screws into separate containers withs labels as to where they go. I even used label stickers on some parts.

spriteman · March 2013

imidazol97 / bowfan

Okay - here's the latest on the diagnosis.

Shut down A/C - disconnected neg batt - drained oil/coolant - oil did not look like it had any water in it

Removed motor cover and other components to allow access to the plug wires and plugs - disconnected spark plug wires

Removed spark plugs - had some minimal coolant drainage

After I finally got all the plugs out I turned the crank shaft with a large socket - at first it didn't want to turn but after the first piston hit the top I got a big coolant flush - I went ahead and turned the rest of the pistons through by hand just to make sure all of the major coolant was cleared

The spark plugs were a little oily but did not look that bad

I then reconnected the batt and turned the engine over with the starter. The engine turned smoothly and I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary with the cycling. I did hear a high pitch whine - the noise was coming from the starter. At first I was concerned but I was thinking that that's just the sound a starter makes but you never hear because the engine starts so quickly. Let me know if you think that whining noise is something to be concerned about.

Based on what I'm seeing and hearing it sounds like the engine is okay - do you both agree? Any info I can supply to make sure in your minds just let me know?

So, today I plan on refilling the engine with the cheap oil I got from Wal-mart and changing out the oil filter as well. I think one of you said something about cycling the engine a few times to distribute the oil throughout the crankcase - any recommendation on how many times it needs to cycle?

Regarding the new gaskets - I called the INeedParts folks and they said that it would take three days to get the parts to me. I didn't ask about it but I'm considering doing an expedited delivery.

QUESTION - it looks like the INeedParts gasket parts are about $80 more than what Autozone offers - I just want to make sure that it's worth the extra money. I'm a big believer in quality and if you think there is a significant difference I'm okay with that.

QUESTION - my brother was saying I should be very concerned about the heads warping - have you seen a problem with this after overheating? I believe the heads are aluminum - correct?

I'm going to go ahead a place my gasket kit order unless I hear otherwise from either of you. I am also going to go ahead and break down the engine to the point where once I receive the parts I can begin the rebuild.

I am labeling everything by matching a component with the appropriate fitting with the same number.

I have the Haynes service manual but I'm finding it a little light on directions - do either of you have any more detailed instructions that I can follow?

Any tips on breaking down the intake manifold and cleaning out the old gasket material? Seems like the key is to label label label.

That's all I can think of right now - I'll post more as I have more info.

Thanks again for your help.

spriteman · March 2013

PS That "going to 130" drop in temp reading was a typo on my part - that should have read "going to 230"

imidazol97 · March 2013

If you put the oil into a milk container where you can see the bottom, is there water? Even if none showing, I'd turn the engine over with plugs out for 5-10 seconds a couple of times after oil pressure is up. On mine, I'd wait to let starter cool and I'd do that several times. That will flush the oil between the bearings and crankshaft to reduce damage from coolant in the oil that doesn't show the water.

If it were mine I'd try testing compression to see if there might be a head problem. But they are rare on these engines.

I don't think you have to remove the crossover pipe to get to the one small bolt for the throttle body.

If you want to drop me an email to yahoo.com with my user name here in front of the "at" sign, I can send you more help. If you don't see actual water in the oil that's a good sign that it was early in the leaking of the lower gaskets that you've caught it. Good luck.

bowfan · March 2013

Yep, the engine will definitely sound different without compression when your starter turns it over. Glad to hear it's turning. In the worst case of hydrolock, you may break or bend a connecting rod or piston.

The heads are iron, the Lower Intake is aluminum.

I wouldn't worry about changing the oil until you swap the parts.

In my experience, I think all the parts (I've used Dorman) now supply the smaller size stovepipe, and the metal sleeved UIM or Intake plenum. If you are going to replace the LIM gaskets, I've used the AC Delco and heard good reports on them. They're about $42 at Amazon currently, and the UIM kit carries all the o-rings for your injectors, MAP, etc. I don't think it includes the Permatex RTV sealant like the one imidazol97 linked to.

part for AC Delco is "ACDelco 89017816 Intake Manifold Gasket Kit"

regarding warpage, I haven't seen it in my experience, and my temp indicated HOT and my radiator was only holding steam. And I had it happen twice. Car is still running smoothly with 315,000+.

If anything is prone to warpage, I'd think it would be the plastic LIM gaskets. *see my pics in link of earlier post.

spriteman · March 2013

Do you recommend that I change out my spark plugs? They look good to me - I think they were changed out about 4 or 5 years ago. I know I have to change my wires because I caught one of my wires and the connector head came off.

Anything else I should consider changing out while I've got everything opened up?

spriteman · March 2013

Okay folks - here's the latest.

After a mess of labeling, unplugging, bolt loosening, and draining I've got the plenum and intake manifold removed.

Once I confirmed the parts I needed I placed an order online which should have everything to me by Thursday or Friday at the latest.

In the mean time I spent most of the day cleaning the intake manifold. It was pretty gunked up but the results were good. It would have been so much easier with a parts washer.

Thursday will be more clean up and if the parts arrive I will probably install the short block gasket pieces so they will be cured and ready for the intake manifold.

I'm including a link to the pics I've taken so far - I'm not sure if you'll be able to view them so if you can't just reply and I'll see how I can change the settings on the album so you can see them. Let me know what you think - and if you have any questions let me know that as well.

TD

1998 Buick Park Avenue - Intake Manifold Gasket Replacement Pics

bowfan · March 2013

I've tried to reuse my spark plugs the last time, but I ended up replacing them. I think it wouldn't start, but I'm not sure.. it's been a few years now. It's gonna be up to you.

bowfan · March 2013

Great pics! You look like you've almost got this done. Did you look up inside the stovepipe channel of the UIM to see if it was cracking or rotted? It does look like your LIM gaskets were deformed some around the little square ports. You're LIM looks great, can I bring my next one to you?

Yeah, now I look for cars with the 3.8L with description "blown head gaskets", etc. Picked up a nice Lumina LTZ for my son that way, let him do the repairs while I held the light and gave him guidance.

spriteman · March 2013

The only thing I'm concerned about finishing up the repair is applying the gaskets correctly - as far as adhering them to the head/IM surfaces. Are the only areas that get some gasket sealant the two strips that sit on the block? Or do you have to follow the pattern around all of the holes (bolts and ports)?

In the pics that I've seen I only see sealant on the end strips.

I mean this is the reason the engine failed and I'd hate to do it wrong and start all over.

bowfan · March 2013

You do not have to cover the entire gasket surface, you just want to cover the gaps where the 4 pieces of the LIM meet. Maybe put the aluminum sides on, then a dab of RTV down in the corners, then put the short rubber end gaskets down, then another dab of RTV in the corners on top, just to make sure nothing gets past the gap.

I thought of one other thing, a little too late to help you...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/bowfan/3800-UIM-failure/DSCN2690-TB-brack- et_zps43c5026c.jpg

And http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/bowfan/3800-UIM-failure/101_4164-MAP-caut- ion_zpsc672b729.jpg

spriteman · March 2013

Fellow BPAers,

More progress today - I know I'm going slow here but I'm just trying to take my time so I don't have to repeat this process anytime soon.

Removed sensors from throttle body and cleaned the heck out of it then reassembled the it.

Ensured that all fluids were evacuated from the head ports and then set about doing the final cleaning on the gasket area on the head - scrape, scrape, scrape, wipe">link title.

Also mounted the side rail gaskets so that the sealer will be set up by tomorrow so I can continue the rest of the installation.

There are another 5 pics if you want to check them out on the link below.

TD

1998 Buick Park Avenue - Intake Manifold Gasket Replacement Pics

imidazol97 · March 2013

Wow. That throttle body really is clean! Good pictures guy.

Hopefully when it's all back together, you'l have an engine good for another 200K miles.

paparen · March 2013

i have a buick park auv and i have had a prob with it running right if you press the gas it will cut out like it trying to quit but if tou let off the gas it will idle i have replaced the mass air flow sen and still doing the same thing anyone else had this prob help lol

paparen · March 2013

i was woundering if anyone else had this prob with the car when you press the gad peddel it will try to die but if you let off it will idel

imidazol97 · March 2013

My first thought would be the throttle position sensor. If you connect a voltmeter across the right two leads on that connector in resistance mode, you may see it skip and not be a continuous, smooth change in resistance as someone slowly presses the accelerator pedal.

My second would be the fuel pressure. Check the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. Right after the engine has been running, you may smell raw gasoline in the line. There is a video on youtube showing someone leaving the vacuum line disconnected and after a few minutes, gasoline starts spitting out of the regulator because of the leaking diaphragm inside.

Have the codes read at a box store, but don't jump to replace parts until someone can diagnose the problem the code might indicate.

paparen · March 2013

iam no tech when it comes to cars sadly i dont even no were this stuff is on the car 350 327 351 440 426iam you guy but on this iam lost as i can be thanks for the reply but it still greek i dont know were iam looking to find whqat you told me so if you could point lol it would help

paparen · March 2013

iam no tech when it comes to cars sadly i dont even no were this stuff is on the car 350 327 351 440 426iam you guy but on this iam lost as i can be thanks for the reply but it still greek i dont know were iam looking to find whqat you told me so if you could point lol it would help

spriteman · March 2013

Hello All,

I finished my repair on Monday after fighting with a faulty starter and convincing the salvage parts guy that even though the starter was testing okay on his test jig that it still had a problem.

Everything finished up okay - check out pic link below. Got the head surfaces all cleaned up and the side gaskets laid down along with the corner gasket sealer. Let that sit overnight and then added another bead of the sealer and positioned the lower intake manifold.

I did make one mistake - I was trying to use the same coolant elbow from the LIM to the tensioner port and as I was moving the LIM around the elbow was pushed in too far into the LIM. I had to remove the LIM and wrestle with the elbow - that thing did not want to come out. I was trying to avoid removal of the tensioner. Later, after an hour or so, I thought I would just try loosening the tensioner which would enable me to rotate the elbow more easily - that did the trick and the LIM was set in place. (Purchased a new elbow just to make sure I hadn't cracked the old one)

With that done I proceeded to reassemble the rest of the upper intake and all of the other parts and sensor connections.

While I was at it I changed out the plugs and wire set just because I was already where I could get to everything and because I wanted to make sure that the ignition system was not compromised.

Thanks again to imidazol97 and bowfan for all of your help. I couldn't have done it without you. By the way - the engine is running great - monitored the engine temp and it's actually running at 190 - 6 degrees cooler than the thermostat. I'm taking it on the highway today - I expect it'll run great.

1998 Buick Park Avenue - Intake manifold gasket replacement

bowfan · March 2013

Glad to hear it Tracy, those engines are pretty good, and if people had guidelines to replace the UIM the same way Honda / Nissan owners's are told to replace their timing belts, there wouldn't be any problems with them. I'm glad you did not have to replace the engine for an unknown engine.

I hope your UIM came with a downsized stovepipe that you put to use, and your test drives have been going well.

Congrats on a job well done! Thanks for checking back with results!

spriteman · April 2013

Okay Gents - it looks like you've created an OCD Park Avenue problem solving crazy man.

Before the IM problem the cruise was not working but I wasn't really going to do anything about it. I just figured that I probably wasn't going to be able to fix it myself and I didn't want to spend Dealer $$ to have it repaired. But, with my new found sense of capability and some very excellent folks here to bounce ideas off of I thought I might give it a go.

Stats: 1998 Buick Park Ave - 88,000 Miles - 2nd owner - Intake Manifold just replaced and everything looking good

The cruise does not work at all. I move the slider button to the on position - get up to speed and depress the set button. No cruise light. I did verify that the green Cruise light does work during engine start-up. I've also tried to hold the brake pedal up as some have said has help them engage their cruise - no deal.

Here's what I've done so far to diagnose:

- Checked Cruise fuse in the passenger side instrument panel fuse block. It looked fine but I replaced it with a new 10 amp just to make sure.

- Visually checked the two switches at the base of the steering column - in my car both switch plungers are compressed with no brake pedal applied - when the brake is applied the brake arm moves away from the switches allowing the plungers to extend - the gaps seem like the 1/8 - 1/4 described in an online manual I have access to.

- Verified that the cruise control cable was connected correctly from the cruise control module mounted on the firewall and running to the throttle body. Everything looked fine there - I did find a procedure for ensuring it was correctly tightened. I will do that tomorrow. I don't think that would be a reason for the cruise not to engage at all.

- Made an assumption that the VSS is working okay since I have no problems with my speedometer.

- Checked all brake lights for proper function - found two burnt out lights - one in the upper middle light and one in the lower driver side. Replaced both lights with the correct lights and retried the cruise and still did not work.

- Removed the cruise control module and attempted to look inside the box but once I had removed the 4 screws that held it closed I could not get it to open - maybe a trick there but perhaps GM made it so it really couldn't be opened without really messing it up. Although I did see one online in a video that a guy made to test his module. So I reassembled and reinstalled the module.

- QUESTION - on narrowing down what is the offending component. I personally think that it is probably the light/wiper/cruise switch. I thought a way to prove that is that if it was working and I unplugged the plug from the cruise control module and then turned the switch to on and then hit the set button would that not cause a DTC error code? Which it does not?

Well - that's what I have so far - any helpful diagnosis replies are most welcome. I am going to take it step by step without just throwing parts at it. By the way - from all the doco on my car I don't think I have any vacuum components - it looks like my cruise control module works on an electric stepper motor.

Tracy

imidazol97 · April 2013

You are probably ready to check the circuits through the multifunction stalk.

You will need a circuit diagram to know which circuits are involved when you push the on and the set and the resume. I suggested a visit to your library computers it they offer AllData like mine does. I can print out or save pictures and text to a USB memory stick from their computer. Our county library pays per computer for AllData so it's only available at computers at the branches or main library (or the other county with which we share resources. It's worth a call to ask them if there is access and if you can access and save data to use at home.

I am looking at my 98 leSabre's arrangement for the cruise, but can't be sure the PA would use the same setup. It's likely but not certain. There are 3 fuses involved. The colors might help, but can't be certain those would be same as well. Only clue would be if the rockauto listing showed the cars took the same replacement turn signal stalk.

The two brake switches are opposites; one is open when pedal is depressed and other is closed when pedal is depressed. Your fuses probably have a block under the rear seat along with under the hood, like my leSabre. One fuse is Auto AC Cruise and other is CLG FAN/TCC with this one supplying brake switch which is closed with the pedal up. The other fuse supplies power for the other brake switch which only is closed upon brake application and tells the cruise module that it has brake applied.

spriteman · April 2013

Here is a link to the database I have access to via my local library -

http://www.ebscohost.com/public/auto-repair-reference-center

It has some diagrams I can post to help us diagnose.

Here's the diagram for the cruise electrical -

http://arrc.ebscohost.com/searches?car_uuid=1303300&fa_uuid=uuid_p5_wiring_diagr- am_40673261219280992940470974826564984826&filters%5Bservice_information_type_pat- h_facet%5D=root%2Fmrt%2Fsit%2Fp5_diagrams&keywords=cruise

I can also get it in PDF form if you can't access that link.

Let me know what else I can provide.

imidazol97 · April 2013

That requires a password and ID>

bowfan · April 2013

Does the EBSCO database have the diagnostic steps in addition to the diagrams?

My manual gives 9 steps to verify it is in fact inop, then shows about 31 more items to narrow it down.

After making sure it's inop, it says
------------------------------------------
1) turn CC (cruise control) off
2) disconnect cc module connector
3) turn ign switch to run position
4) connect DMM between terminal F of connector and ground and look for 10-15VDC
------------------------------------------

thats the second item of 31. 1st item was perform the first 9 steps of basic system check. Lots more to check out. Some of it is complicated or requires specialty tools to check out the PCM, scan tools to look for errors. It may take a while to chase it down.

Unfortunately I don't have experience with that particular problem, so I can't give you a "this is what I found to be the root cause..."

Do you happen to have any dash lights indicating problems with, for instance, your ABS or traction control system? Service engine soon/check engine light?

spriteman · April 2013

Thanks for jumping in bowfan.

The EBSCO data does give some steps but they are fairly light on detail when it gets down into the weeds. They are definitely not shop manuals.

Is your manual hard copy or electronic - if electronic is there a way to screen shot and post or send via email?

I have already checked terminals a-g for voltage - all received good results.

There are no dash lights - I was sort of hoping there would have been as that would help narrow down what I'm looking for. Two of these terminals also rule out the stop lamp & ABS switch failure I believe.

Any thoughts on a way to test the cruise control module in a stand-alone
environment?

Let me know what you think?

Tracy

imidazol97 · April 2013

>Is your manual hard copy or electronic - if electronic is there a way to screen shot and post or send via email?

That might be an advantage to seeing if your local library does have AllData access. From what I recall the few times I used AllData at the library, their troubleshooting steps seemed to parallel the factory service manuals from GM printer by Helminc.com

You might price the FSM at that website ($200 + shipping). They offer paper and digital versions for some cars--but the digital versions cover many vehicles and are even more expensive unless you're a shop needing to cover that many vehicles.

I'd suggest looking on eBay for used FSM manuals. One caveat is to be sure you know how many volumes are in the set, e.g., 2 or 3. A few people put up one volume and you need all the parts. My 2003 FSM is 3 volumes. AND it needs to be the actual Helm FSM.

Here is one. Appears to be the full correct set. Priced extraordinarily well. If I wanted them I'd Buy It Now for $27.99 and pay extra for fast shipping. Others are asking 2.5 times that price.

Only note, is on the 1998 leSabre manuals, Helm issued a replacement set with ID to that effect stamped diagonally across the covers. They appeared on my doorstep with notice a year or two after I bought the originals from Helm.
It said there had been some updates inside--I never saw anything different.
It makes good reading about how things work as well as troubleshooting.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-1998-BUICK-PARK-AVENUE-Service-Manual-VOL-1-2-3-ELEC- - - TRICAL-ENGINE-BRAKE-/350583208811?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item51a0633b- - - 6b&vxp=mtr#ht_1443wt_676

Greasy fingerprints won't affect the inside. I have some old manuals for 67 Mustang and 77 Cutlass with lots of prints...

spriteman · April 2013

So - it's been about a month since I replaced my IM gaskets and cleaned the heck out of that engine. I had strained the oil that was in the engine when the gaskets failed and changed the oil filter. The idea being that in a month I would change both.

Put the Mobil 1 extended mileage 10w-30 synthetic and the matching filter from Mobil.

Also, installed a new fuel filter so all of those clean injectors have nice clean gas. Anyone have an issue with the clip side of the fuel filter weeping a little around the connection? It's not a lot of gas - just enough to make the plastic clip wet.

And, lastly, changed out the oil pressure sender that had failed before the IM gasket failure. By the way - if anyone else is going to attempt this I wound up jacking the car up and working from the right front wheel area. I removed the wheel and the splash guard. This enables you to reach to oil pressure sender from the side and get a wrench on it. I suggest using a 28 mm (check size) box end ratchet wrench to make to job a lot easier.

Oil pressure on my base 1998 BPA is now a solid 60 psi while cruising or accelerating. When I hit the brakes fairly hard you can see the psi drop into the low to mid 30's. All looks normal and I think I should have another 100K miles out of the old BPA.

Spriteman Out!

imidazol97 · April 2013

>Anyone have an issue with the clip side of the fuel filter weeping a little around the connection?

Was the o-ring in place on the line when you put on the new filter? I still haven't done mine--have to get a 16 mm flare wrench--but the person at the Zone reminded me to watch that o-ring. If it is left off, then I'd have a leak he told me.

spriteman · April 2013

To be honest I didn't notice if there was an o-ring. I did a look-up at gmpartsgiant for the parts diagram - it does show an o-ring on the hex fitting side but not on the clip side of the fuel filter. Is the o-ring inside the hex fitting? I didn't see the o-ring on the flared end of the fuel line coming from the engine side which connects to the hex fitting.

The strange thing is that it seems to be weeping from the clip side of the fuel filter - where the diagram does not show an o-ring. I'm going to go down to autozone and see if they can lend a hand identifying where the o-ring should be and why the clip side of the fuel filter might be leaking.

steve1216 · July 2013

I have a 1998 with 60K on it. Lately my transmission has begun to jerk when shifting from 1-2 and 2-3. There's no noise involved, just a hard jerk where a smooth shift should be. My mechanic insists that there's nothing wrong with the car, but it seems to me that it shouldn't be jerking like this. Also- for the first five minutes or so of driving the shifts are smooth. Thanks for any help anyone could offer!

2oldsnbuick · December 2013

So, picked up this '91 PA cheap, lots of miles but good shape. The heater/AC blower isn''t putting out the air it should so while doing other engine work I removed the blower fan. I found the fan housing was coated with a greasy residue which also covers the heater core and evaporator. My intention is to access the heater core and evaporator from inside and using compressed air and alcohol back blow the fins. So, I have proceeded as if replacing the heater core which is not covered very well at all by the usual manuals. Looking for feedback from anyone who has done the job.

feareddark · January 2014

Sup folks, after the many many pages of reading a lot of very helpful and occasionally difficult processes I decided to add my story as well and some history. I have been the proud owner of two '93 buick lesabre customs, ran them in the ground as every car should be(old age caught them both around 300k miles and 10 years of owning each). I tend to buy used cars and when a lawyer decided to sell his 1998 park avenue ultra supercharger for 1k(due to mostly his rocker son who drove it before was not gentle with it and wanted a real sports car). To my disgust a year later after I found such a beauty(only had to perform minor replacements on it) I found myself facing down a full blown preggo deer and she took out my hood, passenger light, and radiator....or so I thought. I was happy to have found out she had only destroyed the "coolant amount sensor" or whatever it may be. After securing the shattered sensor back(hot glue works wonders), I raced off to the junkyards. Now a more challenging part to my quest, come to find out a man with the same make, model, and color had done the same thing! So the old badger got to most of our salvage yards and acquired(to my disgust) exact color parts...... On with the story... If you are not familiar with the park avenue's rarity when it comes to salvage yards you will find out(unless you're in some hugely populated area). The Buick was reborn! Purple body and a white hood(quite hilarious most people think I am a cop on the highway!). Here comes the wisdoms I have learned from this beast, my apologies for the prelude to the point.. I believe it is 97+ perhaps 98+ park avenues, I welcome you to the painful idea of Electric parts and Irritating little devices no bigger then your thumb that will cost you at least that whole hand the thumb is attached to! If you are having issues regarding say AC is flowing on windshield and floorboard you are looking at an acuitors(I may be misspelling that) 9/10 times that's it, and lets hope that you did have just the simple 3 phillips screws to remove rather then someone's son who stripped 2/3 and replaced the other with a random screw! Prices vary, and honestly I can deal with the weather rather then shell out 85-300 dollars for such a small device, that I quote "has to be calibrated by a Buick dealership" aka be ready to hand over two legs with that hand for the part + calibration. I also see alot of people dealing with overheating issues-- When it comes to this the factory fan settings are way way high... ex: The radiator fans don't kick on til 215 degrees roughly...Lame eh? Quick fix, and old school the way I like it, there are two fixes to this. One requires you to have an OBD(pda dealy that connects to the brain of your buick and commands it to do your bidding once you figure out how to write scripts) or...plain and simple pull the thermostat. I have had many classic cars, and a few newer, I thoroughly enjoy running the highway speed limit(here its 75) and knowing at 90 degrees outside that my temperature will not exceed about 130. I was having the overheating issue from day one, sometimes from stop and go traffic, other times just general highway. I replaced copper thermostat, ripped out my thermostat, and ever since I have had zero issues with my temperature. It slightly kills my heater for the first 5-10 mins in winter, but hey! Guess what!? Ya got seat warmers... The other little nuisance I have found with these vehicles aside from all the expensive gizmos, is the window seals and well of course(never fails) buicks just are an attractor for getting cracked windshields! I have had few other issues with this little beast(knock on wood). I noticed also a fellow talking about jerking with transmission, just from my meager experience with tinkering(yes yes I am no mechanical brainiac!) that often in times when it jerks shifting despite on originally smooth take offs, I suggest your transmission housing that connects to your engine be inspected along with motor mounts, and transmission mounts. Never hurts for you to learn how to pull your transmission pan and how to swap that filter out, occasionally you might be so un-lucky to find metal shavings or lollipops in there...yes that latter part was a joke. Also in just mentioning that, sometimes your emission system(had a 91 trans am that did this) can choke your car aka replacing your catalytic converter. These are truly amazing cars, the buick breed, and easily found cheaply...however learning them is like learning a woman, once you think you know one thing about her she'll flip on ya! I'll be looking into getting an OBD or OBD2, and currently learning how to fine tune my supercharger...if anyone has some great guides for the supercharger would love it.... Oh yea and if someone could tell me the easiest way to ducktape or superglue my same ac issue will take that as well, to the fellow who uses a pair of vice grips..kudos, I bow to you.

Yours Truly & The Purple Beast Mistaken As A Highway Patrol,
FearedDark & '98 Park Ave

feareddark · January 2014

Just found the greatest trick(thought it was a joke) if your gas gauge does not work, with your vehicle off -> take a agriculture sized magnet(fairly big one) put it up to the gauge and rotate counter clockwise it will put it to the reset position! Sadly another fail...mine is behind the needle to allow it to reset...off I go to tear a dashboard apart! Cheers!

imidazol97 · January 2014

@feareddark said:
Just found the greatest trick(thought it was a joke) if your gas gauge does not work, with your vehicle off take a agriculture sized magnet(fairly big one) put it up to the gauge and rotate counter clockwise it will put it to the reset position!

Some people have drilled a small hole through the plastic cover where they could insert a paper clip bent appropriately and use that to lift the needle of the stop post to the correct side of the post.

Buick Park Avenue Maintenance & Repair

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