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Comments
Randall
Kinda, if they are enough complaints it is posted on there ESI (Electronic Service Information?).
But my exsperience says that it takes about a billion complaints before GM posts it. By then all the techs in the world have figured it out for themself already.
I did look in the system and found nothing.
Suggestion: The dealers "Tech 2" has a snap-shot feature on it. If you can get one of the techs to ride with you and duplicate your symptom. So that way the dealer is not responsible for the traffic infraction. BE NICE and understanding in setting up a time to do this. A tech does not make any money while riding in a car so we do not like to do it if we don't have to. Also I would go with whatever time the tech wants to set it up at. Hopefully the freeways or whatever will be clear enough to reproduce the complaint at that time.
The dealer had the truck for the second time and could not duplicate the problem on the lift or on a road test. They asked if one of the techs could take it home at night and I let them do it. This morning he called and said "Oh Yeah, we verified the problem, but still don't know what's causing it." At least they verified the problem.
Three times they have had this truck and they still can't find out why the lights are going out. Over the past three days they replaced the alternator and the entire fuse box. They disassembled and cleaned every contact and plug they could find. They ohmed out the entire wire harness and can't find anything. They verified the problem with volt meters and the power is cutting out but they can't find out why.
Now I file the lemon law!!
Thanks
You still haven't answered if the "power cutting out" was to the relay coil circuit, or the switched load to the head-lamp. If power is cut to the relay coil, then the problem would be in the peripheral I/O driver that interfaces the micro-controller port to the relay coil circuit. Yank the computer if that's the case! When head-lamp power goes out, what happens to the dc voltage? Does it glitch as if from a short to ground, or does it stay up?
link,
Check your owners manual, but I believe all you need to do is put your transfer case selector into neutral. Remove the fuse for "ignition," so you can leave the key "on," so your steering column remain un-locked.
This is the first vehicle I have purchased and have never heard of such a thing. Is removing the knockouts something I should have had done as soon as I bought the truck?
I'm not sure I understand you correctly. If you are talking about the relays for the headlights, they have been replaced. The dealer originally had me drive with the headlights on in the manual position to remove any relay circuits used by the automatic headlight circuit. That didn't work. So far the dealer has replaced the individual headlights. The second time they had it they found voltage drops at that speed but never told me exactly where they were measuring the voltages. As a result they changed all the relays applying to the headlight circuit as well as some other relays. They also changed a voltage distribution block. Again they didn't fix it. The third time they had the truck they replaced the entire fuse box including all fuses and relays. Everything in it was replaced. They pulled apart and cleaned every electrical connection they could reach in the engine compartment and under the dash. They even went after the circuit breaker (fusible link) which is mounted under the battery. At this point I don't want them to find it. I have written a final letter to Chevrolet giving them one last chance to fix it. If they don't fix it with in seven business days from receiving my letter it is considered a lemon and I get a complete refund minus the mileage used (5K miles). This would allow me to purchase the new Silverado which is the truck I really wanted. So to tell you the truth, I hope they don't find it. I have been a Chevy man all my life and I think I just got a lemon. I will stick to Chevy unless I have serious problems with getting a refund. If Chevy can't fix it then it should be a lemon. If they do fix it then I'm stuck with a smaller truck than I wanted, but still a descent truck.
I forgot to mention they also replaced the alternator on this truck. The have done everything short of rebuilding the electrical system.
I understand everything. I love my Silverado, but you can't lose since the S10 is a great truck. My 90 S10 Blazer has 104,000 miles and is going great. I appreciate how well you articulated your points, and understand your motivation.
But to sum it up, you said they "have done everything short of rebuilding the electrical system." Which used to be, the system was the wiring harness itself, often containing miles of conductors. I was told if a mistake was made in making one at the factory, it was cheaper to scrap the car than fix it. So that Silverado may be as close as you hope.
One possibility, in view of what you told me is that the 12V dc electrical system is intermittently shorting to itself, in an unlikely (but simple) place. That fusible link still seems suspicious to me. So does the ground strap. The battery itself also comes to mind. But wherever it is, your headlights and the rest of the vehicle could be getting intermittent dc brown-outs. Your headlights when they cut out, are indicators of this condition, since you've ruled out relays by putting the switch in manual "on." And since you are not blowing fuses, I think the brown-out is system wide, and the voltage drop-out (you weren't sure about where measured by the dealer) is somewhere in the main dc bus circuit. That's why they replaced the alternator. If that's true, for other systems to continue working they would have to be coping, by filtering, and storing enough charge to keep running to a greater degree of success like the computer, or a lesser degree like your electronic speedometer. But an intermittent open circuit, perhaps insided a conductor also remains a possibility. But if Boeing and the FAA can't find what causes center fuel tank explosions, or hydraulic units for elevators, GM can be excused for this if they make things right for you. You can be the difference in that equation, and I'm confident that's what will happen. Thanks for keeping us posted!
I believe what your alignment man told you about the knockouts is the same thing I heard for my 90 S10 Blazer. But he told me that once removed, the alignment would be harder to maintain once the knockouts had been removed. I believe they have to be drilled out. In my case, it was in-spec, or close enough we decided to leave alone. But they can still adjust toe, so they still charge for the alignment even though they seldom adjust camber, and I believe caster is not adjustable.
I talked to the service department at another dealership and they told me basically what you guys said. The first place I took the truck made it sound like the knockouts had to be done whether the truck was aligned or not.
Your right, the S-10 is a great truck. I think I'm in a Win-Win situation. They either fix the truck or I end up in a Silverado. I hope your right that they prefer to scrap the truck rather than re-wire it.
I think your explanation of the problem is right on track. I too think the problem is in an unlikely but simple place. My dealer had it for a total of seven days and went through it thoroughly. Maybe after the manufacturer talks with the dealer they will agree to scrap the truck rather than spend another seven days trying to find it. Thanks for all the help.
I sent my letter to Chevrolet by way of certified mail yesterday. They have seven days to fix the truck from the time they sign for the letter or it is considered a lemon. I will let you know what happens. I just hope it works out in my favor (new Silverado).
www.offl.com/chevytrucks
2 master cylinders have developed leaks and needed to be replaced. Center storage/armrest on front bench seat stopped opening and had to be replaced. Glove box would only closed when slammed when picked up, had to be removed, and re-attached properly. Air conditioner fan became extremely noisy, it was replaced. Air conditioner control panel stopped working properly, it was replaced. Each door has had to be aligned and pretty much disassembled to help get rid of really bad squeaks and rattles (I know its a truck and not a car so it won't sound as quiet, but if you had ridden with me, trust me, it was bad). The truck developed a starter hesitation especially when you started it after it was warm. This was caused by wiring that was not connected properly to power distribution center. When changing the oil the oil fileter has to be tightened way down to keep the filer from leaking (I thought at first it was just bad work done at the oil change places, but no matter where I take it, they all trouble keeping the filter from leaking oil no matter if they use a GM filter or another brand).
One problem that really bugs me (besides the master cylinders) is that the truck has a loud thumping noise that originates from the floorboard on the passanger's side front seat. This noise has occurred both at a complete stop and while driving (esp when making a turn when pulling away from a stop). Its also made this noise while it was in gear and in park. The front passenger can feel the thump through his feet. Does anyone have any idea of what this might be? I have climbed underneath it and can't seem to locate anything, and have had it to the dealer as well (of course the day he had it, they couldn't duplicate it, and it seems so random in nature that I can't find any one thing that causes it). Any suggestions of what might need to be looked at would be appreciated.
My main reason for this rant is this. I'm ready to take this truck in the back yard and shoot it to put it, and myself, out of our misery. I am really hacked that a vehicle with essentially a 10 year old design (with enhancements along the years) could have so many of these quality and assembly problems. Do I have any recourse or action I can take with Chevy itself? I know about lemon laws, but under Texas Lemon Law, I really don't have much to work with. Any experiences and comments would be appreciated. For what its worth, this truck was assembled in Canada, and I would like to hear others experiences with GM trucks assembled in Canada (my feeling is that maybe one assembly plant does a better job of quality control than another).
PHEW! that got a little long. Hope I didn't bore anyone too much, and thanks in advance for your comments.
JGT74
Other than that it was a great truck.
I also noticed the rust under the dash the other day when I was vacuuming my truck. I can't believe that a truck that was assembled a year ago (1/98 is the assembly date on the door) has extensive rust INSIDE the cab. The drive shaft rust doesn't bug me as much because it is at least exposed to a harsh environment, unlike the interior components. Oh well, I guess I was one of those unfortunate ones that got a bad Chevy truck (everyone else I know that owns one can't believe my stories about the poor build quality, and the poor durability of the parts on my truck) It's a shame because even though I really like the truck (good looks, great power, well laid out dash and controls), its poor build quality and frequent trips to the dealer have made me decide to get rid of it and not get another Chevy/GMC truck. Oh well, you win some you lose some.
They all have lemons! Some make more than others!
I hope I got lucky!
Thanks,
Krank
problem on '96 Vortec 5.7L engines. The engine
specialist at the dealership has indicated that it
appears to be a problem in the idle air control
(IAC) program, but GM has yet to issue a correction. This week the weather got a little
warmer and I turned on the A/C while traveling
about 40MPH without touching the throttle. The
truck accelerated to 45MPH. I do hope GM figures
this one out before I hurt myself or someone else.
Jim "Stand on the Brakes" Flemmons
Anti-lock brake does not change design of the actual brake.
Jim
That explanation raises questions.
If you protected a dc switch against arcing with a diode, the only thing that would happen when you connect it backwards is the diode would allow current to pass continuously, effectively bypassing the switch contact, or turning the light on all the time. I don't see how it ever could have worked if that was the case. And a diode is not usually necessary unless the load is inductive, which the lights are not. Now if the switch was operating a solenoid, that is definitely a case for a diode because the solenoid coil is an inductive load. In that case, the diode is usually applied across the solenoid coil, not the switch.
The diode, or whatever protection device used, does not go across the contacts. It would be on one side of the switch only. The problem is that when current is applied to a bulb, AC or DC, the inrush current is high as the filament resistance is much lower when cold than when hot. Hence the reason bulb typically "burn out" when you first turn them on. And don't kid yourself. While a bulb does not have the inductance of, say, a motor, it most certainly has inductive properties during on and off switching.
Jim
Agree with what you said about temperature dependence of filament resistance, but there is only very low inductance comparing an incandescent filament to an iron core inductor! I think we agree, but just differ in the degree to which we see inductance as a problem in a lamp circuit needing a diode for switch protection. Not saying G.M. isn't using one on the switches. But if it's part of a polarized switch assembly, it can only connect across the contact unless there are more than two wires on the switch.