Toyota Sienna Future Models

toyotaken · December 2002

Something to consider is that just because a vehicle doesn't have an independent suspension does not mean that you're giving up any ride quality or comfort. The suspension components and geomotry make a major part of how a vehicle rides. In many cases, (though not all certainly) a solid axle can and does give a better quality ride with more durability than an independent suspension, especially in the rear of vehicles that are designed to carry alot of weight. As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding and we'll all be able to see how well they did when they start coming in around March.

Ken

vadp · December 2002

The solid axle configuration will never give a better quality ride.

The only reason the manufacturers go with that setup in the non off-road vehicles is its low cost.

Yes it can be tuned to be competitive, but never better than the independent configuration.

Even the big SUV's like the Ford Explorer which always had a solid axle in the rear, got a new independent (and higly praised for improved ride quality) suspension for its '02 redesign.

jchan2 · December 2002

Why doesn't Toyota have 2 minivans? They have 7 SUVs. They could have two versions, a Sienna and a Grand Sienna. Sounds good to me. Also should make more people look at minivans. The Sienna could start at $17K and the Grand Sienna could start at $22K.

wirelessman · December 2002

I spoke with the manager of the largest Toyota dealership in the area and he says the delivery date for the 2004 Sienna is February 1st. He expects to get some paperwork in the next 3 weeks, so keep an eye out!

andrewtran71 · December 2002

If independent suspension is much better than the other kind, then Toyota must be stupid not to use that since the Odyssey has it.
And another thing, I heard that the 2004 Odyssey will have a 3.8 liter engine compared to 3.3 liter of Sienna!
Why can't Toyota beat or at least match the odyssey?
According to JD Powers, Honda and Toyota are about equal in reliability.
I am a Toyota person, but if Toyota can't beat the Odyssey, I will have to wait and see what the new Odyssey has before making a $30K purchase!

toyotaken · December 2002

I don't understand how you can say that without exception, and certainly without having driven the new Sienna yet, "an independent suspension is much better than the other kind". That is not true in all cases. There are many examples of vehicles with a single rear axle having better ride qualities than one with a solid rear axle. I will mitigate that by saying that in MOST cases an independent rear suspension gives a better ride quality.

What does the displacement size of the engine have to do with anything? The responsiveness of the engine, transmission and quality of the vehicle are all much more important than just how big is the engine. Without too much argument, the best car on the market in the midsize segment is either the Honda accord or the Toyota Camry. Both sell a great majority of their vehicles with their base 4cyl engines. They are smaller and have less horsepower than their domestic counterparts with V6 engines, but they still are better quality automobiles and sell more because of the better quality.

Why don't you wait to see what the new Sienna is like before making statements like above. I think that you as well as most others will be very pleasantly suprised.

Just my $.02

Ken

etnies · December 2002

Do any of you have any Safety information for the 2004 Sienna?
Also, The 2004 Honda Odyssey will not be redisgned instead Honda will redign in 2005.
Dear orcutt1 and papabrody,
You two should hold off on buying a 2004 Sienna. Atleast until you have some safety information. Also if you can wait watch out if the 2004 Sienna may go onto Lexus. Or maybe the 2005 Odyssey might fit your needs and it may go onto Acura.

etnies · December 2002

To any of the Townhall Members who are interested the 2006 Oldsmobile Sillouhette will live as a Buick.

etnies · December 2002

For the year 2007 the Dailmeir Chrysler Vans will be redisigned and will for the first time get a quadruple five star safety rating and have a magic third row seat. If any of you are interested I get my information from www.autoweek.com

etnies · December 2002

Can anyone answer my questions concerning the 2004 Sienna?
Will it have 17" Alloy wheels?
Will it have a DVD rear seat entertainment system?
Will there be a Navigation System?
Will XLE have only 8 seats available or only 7?
Will the 2004 Sienna carry on over to the Lexus line?
What colors are available?

Has anyone driven the new Sienna?
Is the ride good?
Is the interior good?
Is the suspension independent?

toyotaken · December 2002

There are quite a few things that are not known about the new Sienna yet, but I'll try to answer your questions here.

Will it have 17" Alloy wheels? - As far as I know, 16" will be the largest wheels offered on the Sienna, but that may change.

Will it have a DVD rear seat entertainment system? - From what I have heard, absolutely YES!

Will there be a Navigation System? - Yes, the newest generation of Nav system that is MUCH faster than the older versions.

Will XLE have only 8 seats available or only 7? - From what I've heard, the XLE model will only seat 7 as the area where the 8th seat is will be used for a center console similar to that in the front seat area.

Will the 2004 Sienna carry on over to the Lexus line? - No plans for a Lexus version of the Sienna, but the XLE model should be pretty close to giving Lexus-like levels of luxury and amenities.

What colors are available? - No information on that yet, but probably the typical for Toyota, White, Black, Silver, Gold, Dark Green, Dark Blue, and maybe one or two more.

Has anyone driven the new Sienna? - There are no production models out yet, so noone other than the designers have probably driven it yet. (other than a couple of Dealer principals that went to a "preview" earlier this year.)

Is the ride good? - No info on that yet, but would expect very good.

Is the interior good? - From what I've heard, it is first-rate and above and beyond anything else in the market for minivans right now.

Is the suspension independent? - Rear suspension is supposed to be multi-link beam, and independent front suspension.

Hope this helps and have a wonderful new year.

Ken

vixter · December 2002

... 17" alloys will be standard on the XLE FwD, LE 4wD and XLE 4wD. The 4wD models will have 17" run-flat tires. Check back in one of my earlier posts for pics or go here: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&uid=821072&gid=1472723&
Colours: Arctic Frost Pearl
          Silver Shadow Pearl
          Phantom Grey Pearl
          Salsa Red Pearl
          Frosted Mink Pearl
          Aspen Green Pearl
          Blue Mirage Metallic
All interiors will be "stone" with the exception of Frosted Mink Pearl having a "fawn" colour interior.
Safety systems will include the availability of side airbags and cutain airbags that go back to the third row. Vehicle stability control and 4-wheel traction control will be standard on 4WD models.
           &nbs- p;           &n- bsp;

etnies · December 2002

Dear Ken and Vixter,
Thank you for giving me information on the questions I asked. Your answers helped me shape my decision tremendously. I just have to ask, What is the price on the 2004? What is the Horsepower?
If any of you can answer these questions it would be great. Also, do any of you have any comments on the information I posted on the Oldsmobile Sillouhette, Dailmier Chrysler minivans, and the 2005 Honda Odyssey? I also wanted to tell you guys that the 2006 Sienna will have the hybrid system.
- Thank You, and I hope you have a delightful New Year.
Sincerely,
etnies

kmcmi · December 2002

How can anyone make a claim that the 2007 model (4 years away from production) will be given a 5 star crash rating. I thought the ratings were given by the government after the vehicle is released.

The Sienna will be introduced at the Detroit Auto Show. I will be working at the auto show so I hope to get lots of information at the time. They should release prelimenary prices there. I have worked at a Toyota Dealership for 5 years now and unfortunately, I get more information here at edmunds.com than from the factory. But if I get anything I will be sure to post it right away.

wayside1 · December 2002

...based on those pictures it looks like Toyota is using the same cheesy floor mats as the current Sienna - a thin strip that goes only infront of the seats.

My old Windstar had floor mats that covered every square inch of the cargo area, including under the seats in the second and third row. And the one at the back flipped over to a rubber surface, for when you need to carry something messy.

This made it much easier to keep the van clean, especially if you have to haul stuff every now and then.

Why can't Toyota provide something like this?

vixter · December 2002

Floormats standard in Canadian spec. Siennas are full carpet and are reversible to rubber. They are also hooked to the floor to stay in place and embroidered "Sienna" for driver & pass. sides. Full coverage for the 2nd & 3rd rows. Optional for the cargo area are either full carpet mat or rubber cargo liner that is OEM quality. I'm thinking you may be referring to a decontented US model wherein floormats are an optional accessory because in my opinion , the standard floormats in Canada are on par quality-wise to the rest of the vehicle.

etnies · December 2002

Does anyone know if the 2004 Sienna will have Reverse Sensing?

chartster · January 2003

So, will we have all the details on the new Sienna next week (from the Detroit Show)?

twinmom73 · January 2003

I read an earlier post that said the new Sienna will be 18" longer, then others that thought it might be 8" - do we know for sure yet how long it is, and how that compares to the Grand Caravan?

Also, the Blue Mirage Metallic color - is that the blue that they have now, kind of a slate blue color?
Thanks!

rdb021 · January 2003

I saw pictures of the 2004 but am interested about the cargo area. I am a disabled veteran and have an electric lift and scooter. The cargo area needs to be solid not like the Honda or Mazda. If anyone could respond back with any information I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

etnies · January 2003

Vixter, I was wondering if you could be able to answer the follow questions about the 2004 Sienna.
Are the pictures that you posted of the Frosted Mink Pearl color?
Will Reverse Sensing be available?
Do you know if the 2004 Sienna will have DVD rear seat entertainment system and Navigation system?
What is the length of the 2004 Sienna?
Will there be a light green that?
Are you sure that XLE will not have 8 seats available?
I truly hope that you or any one else will be able to answer my questions.
Thank You,
etnies

mayhem2003 · January 2003

I was going to buy the Odyssey next month but I think I will now wait an extra month or so just to see what the Sienna is like. The new Sienna looks very impressive but I have 2 concerns:
1) Risky to buy a new car or redesign in its first year. It will be even worse in my case if I buy z Sienna in March because it will be one of the first ones coming off the production line.
2) Dealers are unlikely to deal on such a hot car when it first comes out.

In Canada, we have "access Toyota" pricing where supposedly it doesn't matter which dealer you go to within your metro area, the price is the same. Do US dealers have something similar?

Any Canadian buyers on this forum?

Vixter: You seem very knowledgeable. Do you work for Toyota or a dealer?

kmcmi · January 2003

I am told that everything will be available at the Detroit auto show. It runs for the public from Jan 11 - 20. Any info they have I will of course post here.

For the floor mats, you can get the full reversible carpet/rubber mats from your local Toyota Parts Dealer. That is in America I mean. I do not know anything about the Canadian Dealers.

As far as pricing, Honda's minivan is still selling for close to list price and it has been a couple of years now since it was released so I think that waiting a few months for the price to come down is a non-issue. Also, about initial quality. Toyota is generally known for not releasing a product that is not up to their accepted quality levels (which is much higher than most manufacturers) so I wouldn't worry about that either.

My regional Toyota Rep. said that there will be a rear seat dvd entertainment available and a rear seat audio will be on most of them.

andrewtran71 · January 2003

Thanks for your response.
You probably know a lot more about automobiles than I do. I was just saying that IF (and only IF) the independent suspension was ACTUALLY better, then Toyota should have taken that approach. I just hope that their engineers made the right decision on this one and produced a better suspension system than the Odyssey or at least match the quality.
Just like you, I am definitely a Toyota person. I've owned a Corolla, then Camry, then Avalon, then Lexus LS400 (which is of course also a Toyota).
Engine displacement may not make a difference like you said. I guess it just "sounds" better to me (and perhaps only me) to "brag" about having a bigger and better engine. It's kind of like bragging that my audio amplifiers are rated at 200 Watts per channel when in REALITY we cannot hear the difference between 200 watts and 100 watts. Probably just window dressing--purely cosmetic.
So far, the only thing I like about the 2004 Sienna (based 100% on the internet pictures) is that is has option for an 8th seat. But since I am totally into luxury, I will probably just get the XLE with 7 seats if it has more luxury than the LE trims.
I hope that the GPS navigation is totally awesome, better than the Honda since I heard the Honda isn't "all that".
Toyota and Lexus rules!
But in the end, I must say that it will have to come down to the test drive between the Odyssey and Sienna!
But thanks for your response, Ken.
Andrew

vixter · January 2003

Yes, I believe that those pics were of a Frosted Mink Pearl. Frosted mink is available now for Siennas as a colour option. Clearence and back-up sensors along with a rear seat DVD entertainment system, will be available in an option pkg. with the XLE 4WD (Canadian). Rear Obstacle Sensor System (ROSS) is available now in current Toyotas as a dealer installed accessory. I don't yet know the length or any other dimension specification. A light green that what? Seven pass. only in the XLE.

toyotaken · January 2003

vixter, care to write to me about the ROSS system? We don't have anything like that available on any Toyota's here in the States as far as I know or at least here in the Buffalo area. I'd be interested in finding out a bit more if you have the opportunity to get the info to me though. Thanks.

etnies · January 2003

Vixter,
I'm Sorry I must have accidentily typed "A light green that?, I meant to say "Is light Green available?
Also, Why the hell did they have to make the XLE with 7 seats? I don't give a damn about the console? If one pays extra can they get rid of the console and get the 8th seat? I dearly hope so because if not, I will have to drop the Sienna and just get the new Odyssey.
Sincerely,
etnies

vixter · January 2003

I can't stress enough that I only have Canadian spec. It could very well be likely that you'll be able to get an 8-pass. XLE down there or at the very least, a leather equipped 8-pass. LE. Aspen green is fairly light and is available now in Corolla and Camry.

vixter · January 2003

All I have for you is a Technical Assistance Hotline for ROSS. The number is from Wilmington,N.C., I'll send it to you.

dplachta · January 2003

split back folding-out-of-the-way rear seats; 5 speed automatic--if it is like the Kia it will accelerate nicely; big; a Toyota; folding cupholder/table; integrated headrests in back (especially if you have small kids); sunroof (although I hope I'm not forced to get the high end model to get it).

I need something to adequately replace our '91 Previa, which I love. This is the first vehicle to do so, apparently (because we don't really know its size).

I was looking for pics on the colors and several of them are available on the Camry. I like the salsa red and the black walnut pearl, and kind of like the aspen green pearl.

coolguyky7 · January 2003

Correct me if I'm wrong but it took Honda more than one model year to resolve all of its Odyssey problems.

kmcmi · January 2003

I think it took Honda a year to resolve all the problems with the Odyssey is because it is the first minivan that they actually built. The previous Odyssey was just a rebadged Isuzu Oaisis. This will be Toyota's third large mainstream sized minivan, (counting the Previa of course) so I think they probably have a better chance of getting it right the first time it comes out.

Press release day on the Sienna is Monday 1/6/03 at 11:20am at the Detroit Auto Show.

vcheng · January 2003

...actually, the Isuzu Oasis was a rebadged Honda Odyssey (first-generation) that was based off the old Honda Accord platform. In exchange, Honda got to sell Isuzu Troopers as rebadged Honda Passports.

mayhem2003 · January 2003

Some top guy from Honda manufacturing in North America admitted in I think the Wall Street Journal that cars are better built after the first couple of years. He even quoted % numbers as to how the # of defects come down after so many months and so many years of production.

This would bode well for buying an Odyssey in March since it is near the end of the 4 or 5 year production cycle.

Toyotas are great cars but I think it will still have some 1st yr defects.

kmcmi · January 2003

While I do believe you may be correct about the Odyssey, the Isuzu Trooper was rebadged as an Acura SLX and the Isuzu Rodeo was rebadged a Honda Passport. But point taken. I guess Honda really had no reason to have problems with the Odyssey.

vcheng · January 2003

I think you are correct about the Rodeo and Acura SLX, and thank you for accepting the facts about the Oasis/first-gen Odyssey.

unc8185 · January 2003

rdb021:

We are anxiously waiting to see if the floor under the rear seats is solid metal. We too use a wheelchair/scooter lift (Bruno Curbssider). If the floor is not metal, we will have to look for anothr van. :-(

I really would like a luxury vehicle. However, there is no such thing as a luxury minivan. As you likely know, most SUV's have rear openings that are not tall enough. With our chair and scooter, 41 inches is necessary. The current Sienna is just tall enough with the help of a sloping door.

Good luck in your search!

stockey · January 2003

The dashboard layout seems have been copied on the Kia Sedona.

etnies · January 2003

Does anyone have any information of a debut of the 2004 Sienna in the L.A. Auto Show?
I live in Los Angeles and am planning on attending the L.A. Auto Show.
So I hope that it will also debut in the L.A. Auto Show as well as the Detroit Auto Show!

rtfi · January 2003

I don't think you are going to see the new Sienna at the LA show. Auto.com reported, "Nissan and Toyota Motor Corp will *introduce* minivans..." (emphasis added) at the NAIAS (Detroit). Also the LA show web site doesn't list the Sienna as a debut.

http://www.auto.com/industry/show30_20021130.htm
http://www.laautoshow.com/debut.asp

dplachta · January 2003

and, naturally, we'd like to know the next step--when will Edmunds (and others) get to test drive it?

I'm sure we'll learn a lot Monday--maybe enough to put down a deposit.

patwg · January 2003

Toyota's cars always have very good ride quality because Toyota has better chassis design and construction. The Sienna's(2003 and before models) reliability still better than the Current Odyssey according to the Comsumer Report. The Odyssey become the first minivan choose only because its car size and all the functionalities/usabilities (fall down third row etc).

If you drive on the street have you see many old Odyssey van? Noop! I have see many Previa van still running good and many van almost 10 years old. Previa van is older generation than the first Odyssey van. What that mean? That means when both Sienna and Odyssey as a new car,they don't have much difference. But if you compare the old car you will see the long term parts reliability and assembly line quality control.

When Odyssey becoming old the interior will sounds rattle and the road noise will even louder(according to Motor Trand Mag). Without saying anything else, the 2004 Sienna will become the number 1 minivan choose.

There are many consumers don't like the way Honda dealer sale their Odyssey or CRV. Why they just mark up the cars price even higher than MSRP 10 to 20 percent? This is so ridiculous for all the buyers. Does Honda Corp real allow all the dealer take advantage people?

In Japan, Toyota is largest car maker then Nissan.
Honda is only third place for car maker.

Personally, I will go for 2004 Sienna.

diploid · January 2003

Toyota is the largest Japanese automaker by a wide margain. But Honda has surpassed Nissan as Japan's #2 automaker in the past couple of years. That's why Nissan is partly owned by Renault now.

You don't see many old Odysseys because not many were bought. The 1st generation Odyssey was a major flop in the US.

patwg · January 2003

The US Odyssey called Lagreat in Japan.

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/lagreat

The real Odyssey in Japan please take a look.

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/odyssey/

The reason Honda replace Lagreat to Odyssey is trying to compete larger size van such as Dodge bigger minivan.

The first generation Odyssey indeed is Honda made(made in Japan) and Honda allow Isuzu share its name.

patwg · January 2003

The lousiest minivan crash test ever!!!

from 1995 - 1998

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/96021.htm

Go ask if you have Japanese friend or visit Japan to see which one is the largest auto maker!

kmcmi · January 2003

I am lucky enough to visit Japan on an annual basis. My wife is from there and we visit family for 2 - 3 weeks each year. I was just there in November and let me tell you . . . It is ridiculous how many Toyota's are there. They have 13 different vehicles based on the Corolla platform alone. I think I counted 52 different vehicles that are sold in Japan and I don't mean Camry LE, S, XLE, I mean different vehicles! My brother-in-law has a Rav4L w/navigation system. It shows the Toyota Dealers Icons on the screen and I swear they are like 7/11's in the US. They are everywhere. Anyway, since Toyota is so big they can spend the big bucks on product research and design, and since they don't have to give people 0% and huge rebate incentives to buy their vehicles they can use that money to make better vehicles as well.

Anyway, Honda is a distant 2nd and Nissan is in an even more distant 3rd. Remember, Toyota is also the 3rd largest manufacturer in the world behind GM and Ford!

patwg · January 2003

for Honda:

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98024.htm

for Sienna:

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97026.htm

For minivan's biggest concern is safety.

Why Honda dealer mark up the price and treat consumers like fool?? Coz they don't have business ethnic.

patwg · January 2003

In Japanese auto maker's history. If you ask a Japanses they will said Toyota is number one and Nissan is number two. Maybe recent years Honda has more sales in US or Japan. But Nissan in Japan has more experienced and has overall competing power specially in whole Asia markets such as Taiwan or Singapore.

For here, due to the consumer teste and culture, Honda did a pretty good marketing job but doesn't mean the Honda car is the best value. Sometime marketing will delude consumers' eyes. This is the reason I want to point out something here. I hate to see many consumer make decision without the truth and spend extra three thousand dollars. This is no sense to me.

Anyhow, Toyota Sienna 2004 will hit these Honda dealers greedy behavior. No doubt about!

Consumer SHOULD only spend little more or equal the car's invoce price. This is the rule of the game.

andrewtran71 · January 2003

I too am a Toyota person, but I wonder what the Honda people have to say about what we think (Re: Toyota being better than Honda).
My mother-in-law likes the Odyssey for some reasons, and my wife listens to her also. But I always was reluctant to buy a Honda over Toyota. I am glad I waited for the new Sienna. I hope they make enough of them so that the price will not be so high as demands may be very high.
Are there anymore new Pics of the 2004 Sienna?

dplachta · January 2003

As it stands, I have to enter two different groups to read stuff on vans--here, under Future Vehicles for the new Sienna and under Vans. It would be best if I could access both just under 'vans.'

the quality of Honda vs. Toyota is an interesting topic. I've had both and think they are comprable. I prefer Toyota as it has a 60K mile powertrain warranty and have a sister who's engine went on a Civic.

Toyota Sienna Future Models

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