(non technical answer warning) the y-pipe is what connects 2 sets of headers into 1 pipe
(bad ascii drawing warning) =>--o--o-
picture the equal sign as the headers - one on each side of the engine. the greater than sign is the y-pipe, connecting to the minus sign which connects to the cat (the small letter O) and further connects to the second small letter O (muffler).
Not sure how they package it, but maybe the aftermarket headers come packaged with a y-pipe?
My dear Elizabeth, I read your 7/14 post and can't understand why you would think the Regional Mgr would authorize any warranty work on the gas tank and a/c problems. Why? Because you couldn't duplicate them! My suggestion is to bring it to another dealer and walk in with a smile not a chip on your shoulder. But before you do that make sure you have a problem. A couple of things you can do to insure you don't have a problem is to make sure the arrow on the temperature knob is pointed to the blue side of the dial and not the red side and that you're not paying the gas station attendant $10 and the pump then automatically shuts off when attempting to fill’er up. Comprende?
Also, didn’t you say you had an 86 GL? What car(s) did you have between that and your Forester that makes you a Honda, Toyota, VW Warranty expert? Have lots of problems there too?
Lastly you are way, way out of line about Patti. You obviously are aware she is a Subaru employee, not an Edmonds employee and monitors ALL the Subaru pages on Edmonds when her real job allows. She does this as an extra service to US and tries to assist on a "best effort" basis. Do you honestly think she can read every post AND do her day job? If she doesn’t respond promptly to your beckon call, just post again.
Our '01 Outback Wagon, everytime we took a slow, tight, turn over a bump it sounded as though the front end was going to fall off. They, Subaru, told us it 'was a trait of the vehicle' or something very similar to that-and, of course, that we were the only ones reporting the problem. Wish you could have heard the silence when I asked the rep how they knew about this 'trait' if we were the only ones reporting the problem............ Guess what?, we were not the only ones.
We have owned five new Subaru vehicles, quality seems to have taken a real nose dive in the last three model years. We now have their most expensive product and it has about the most serious problem one can have with an engine, and guess what, its going in today for trip number three, AND, of course, we are the only ones with this type of problem.
When I think of all the cars we could have gotten for about 30 large.........
mysubaru, correct me if I am wrong but the 'Team', Patti, has posted that they/she/he monitor the boards. Its interesting to see the types of problems or situations to which they have responded.
Just for curiosity sakes did you - 1. Go to the dealer you originally bought the car? 2. Go to multiple dealers if the first one had a problem?
The reason I ask is that whenever I have an issue with my car the dealer seams to fix it without an issue. Also, Consumer Reports has been reporting that the quality has actually been going up. Just curious.
You may have gone to a bad dealer service center. Regardless of the make of vehicle, there will be these around.
FWIW, Patti has put her words into action countless times, and helped several people here on these boards. Ease up on the personal attacks, folks.
soobie: since the dealer managed to fix it the first time, I'd go back to them.
CR rates Subaru as the #1 car make in reliability, tied with Toyota. It doesn't mean they are perfect, no car is, but odds are it's as close as you'll get.
I realize that doesn't appease someone that got the bad apple in the batch, but your cars are statistically the exception, not the rule.
Robert116, if it is any comfort, you are far from being the only one who has complained about that steering problem. My 2000 Legacy GT has the same issue and it has been deemed an "inherent operating characteristic" of the vehicle. I've spoken with quite a few people who are not happy with that explanation.
Has your dealer tried replacing the power steering hoses? It doesn't help solve the problem, but at least they may try.
Indeed Patti has been very involved in many issues brought to her attention on this board. She was instrumental in resolving an issue I had. In fact it was handled better than I had ever imagined. But it wasn't Patti alone. My dealer was very interested in correcting my problem too. Not all dealers are alike and like the occasional bad car there are equally bad dealers.
New to the boards, but had a question about my forester. I've been noticing a skip in the engine, almost a split second hesitation, when I'm climbing a hill or accelerating quickly. It's subtle but noticeable. Any thoughts out there? Are others experiencing this hesitation? It's a 2001 L series. Besides the skip, love the car (except my two-year old can easily kick me from the back seat) mainer5
So how much real world gain is there by using a performance exhaust on a NA engine? My understanding was that it was pretty small compared to gains on a turbo.
juice -- My Forester build date is January '98. Given that January is typically a slow month in Japan due to New Year's it just might be a '97 build date. ;-)
I also purchased a replacement pollen filter yesterday. $44 -- man, I miss QSubaru! Oh well, what price clean air?
I have one last question regarding the synthetic gear oil for sale out there. Since I moved my appt up to this Thurs. drop-off instead of in 2 weeks, I want to pick up the gear oil at a local dealer. Most of the local shops carry Mobil 1 and Castrol synthetic. I saw someone recommended NOt using Mobil 1; how is Cstrol?
I wanted to get either redline or amsoil, but they are hard to find, especially in such a short time frame.
I appreciate the insight and input from all. Thanks, Mark
Come on people, to say that any of the posts here on the board are indicative of an attack on the 'Team' is a bit of a stretch. Mine are only intended as observations, a number of us have reported a very major problem with Subaru's flagship engine, and not one comment. I find that interesting, and telling.
Ateixeira, with regard to your comment on the reliablility of Subaru vehicles and the problem car being the exception rather than the rule, please re-read Lemonrider's comments about the front end noise.
Lemonrider, our front end noise was so bad, that the car had to go, and my wife works with someone who did the same thing.
At least this time there is nothing subjective to the problem, glycol is not supposed to be in the engine oil, and even Subaru can't talk their way around this one.
But wait, could an engine which is defective also be "an inherent operating characteristic"?
there is a website - motor-oil-bible.com where you can get the specs of most oils, I decided on using engine synthetics on my WRX due to the turbo engine getting so hot, Mobil 1 trisyn is rated quite well in that guys table of specs, at least for the temp protection I want, other parameters are not as important for me. The new Mobil 1 supersyn is AFAIK just trisyn with this new supersyn additive. Redline/amsoil etc may be better but is not something you can find easily. The Castrol true synthetics are comparable to Mobil 1 IIRC. There are posts at iclub etc about synchro problems with some brands of synthetics in the WRX so I won't be using it for the tranny/diff. The wear issue is less important than the temp one in my WRX. IIRC , you need the NS Mobil 1 for the tranny but not diff (or maybe its the other way around)!
Thanks. I did see that post, but after doing some research, I learned that the Borla headers are not CA emissions friendly. Given that I'll hopefully move on to another Subie in the next year or so, I don't want to go through the hassle of emissions and trading-in/selling a non-compliant vehicle for a small increase in power.
Just got back from dealer to check my a/c which is not cooling as well as it should and making noises (which needless to say no one else can hear!). As my independant mechanic had predicted last year when he recharged it, its leaking, actually at several places. Since I have the Subaru Gold extended warranty I went this year to the dealer to have them check it out. Over $500 to fix, all covered by the warranty.
I got my 6/100K warranty, zero decuctible for my 98 GT at $1100 (almost 500 less than list). Also got to spread the payments over a year to Subaru.
I have had in the 4 1/2 yrs and 70K miles so far covered by the extended warranty: 1.new radio antenna/motor 2. cam oil seal fixed 3. timing belt replaced (I had asked dealer to do timing belt early while they did the seal and I would pay the parts and the little labor which would be above the cost of the seal repair but they managed to con SOA to pay for the whole lot - the belt was "damaged" by the leaking oil!!!) 4. replaced burnt out bulbs in HVAC controls - not actually a covered item but done as a "goodwill gesture " by dealer 5. now these ac repairs.
Admittedly some of these things didn't need fixing if I weren't so OCD about everything working perfectly.
I have never had an extended warranty for a non Detroit car before but I was worried specifically about things like the ac etc which I have found very expensive to fix in other cars.Also had to lay out $700 for the stupid air suspension they had in my 92 Legacy LS. Thank goodness they dropped that sucker after a few years! So when I got the 98 I thought I'd better buy the extended warranty.
Having had to replace a tranny and an engine on a Windstar I wouldn't dream of keeping a Detroit car beyond the bumper to bumper warranty without an extended warranty! Will see if I eventually break even on my WRXs extended warranty !
robert116, I'm in the same boat as you. I have a "For Sale" sign and a draft of a classified ad ready.
I read an article in Consumer Reports New Car Buyers Guide this past weekend. (I believe it was Consumer Reports, I apologize in advance if I am incorrect).
These aren't their exact words, but they are very close:
"If it weren't for the All Wheel Drive, Subaru would have nothing to offer"
Lemonrider, indeed. Good luck with selling yours, there does always seem to be a market for used Subaru's.
As for us, unless Subaru does something extraordinary for us, we are done with this Company-after 5 new ones-Audi is looking real good. Its almost enough to make one consider an SUV, never thought I would even consider that. The VW Touraeg (sp) with the V10 diesel would be neat.
Clearly there are people on the Town Hall boards that are extremely enamored of their Subarus, almost to the point of being blind to their faults. On the far end there are people who are so disgusted with their Subarus that they are almost blind to the good attributes of the cars.
As for me, I'm on my first - a Forester - and while it has not been perfect, its problems have been by and large addressed to my satisfaction. I have gotten SoA involved at times; not just Patti (a/k/a "subaru_team") but other reps who do not post here. I have found that the service department of the dealer from which I bought the car left something to be desired, and have since found another dealership which has served me better. I do think my car has certain traits that may be common to the brand; some are bothersome while others are to be expected of a car in Subaru's price range. Having said that it's my opinion that much of the problem lies with dealers who may not understand the product or who basically give customers short shrift. Maybe Subaru isn't their primary brand, I'm not sure - I'm aware of very few Subaru-only dealerships. I can say this: as a former VW owner I have so far been treated far better by SoA and Subaru dealers than I ever was by any VW dealer. That includes current dealerships that sell both VW and Subaru.
At any rate, those of you with legitimate axes to grind should exhaust your remedies before you condemn the make as a whole. Every maker turns out a few lemons and I can say from experience that I've had greater difficulties with other makes in having problems addressed. Service departments vary in quality and attention to detail. Get SoA, NHTSA or the Better Business Bureau involved, start a case. Subaru is a very small niche manufacturer (even though its niche is getting filled by others) and I'm sure has a vested interest in retaining customers. If you've done that and still aren't satisfied then by all means you have a right to complain. I think many Town Hall regulars would agree that I've complained here in the past, and I've had my issues addressed.
I doubt I'll be doing much more in the breathing department than what I've done already (Amsoil drop-in panel filter). I've searched in vain for someone who can get the Prodrive WR Sport exhaust shipped from the UK for me. Most of the other brands are too loud and droney (is that a word?) for my tastes. Further, even though my car's not a CA emissions car (but a Northeast one) I also have the extended warranty and I'm not interested in voiding that. My wife has dropped hints that she may want to 'inherit' the Forester once I've paid it off, to 'free me up' to buy a WRX wagon or something else of my choosing.
They made a comment that it was not as much fun to drive as the other Impressas due to its leaning in turns and slow acceleration.
Of the 4-5 cars they tested, the Outback Sport came out at the bottom with the VW comming out on top (also, the VW was priced almost as much as a WRX)
robert116 - if you are going with a different make, stay away from Audi! Their quality has been going downhill pretty rapidly! CR hammered them this year. Go with the other Japanese brands (besides Mitsu and Isuzu) if you are looking for quality and reliability. VW has its quirks as well. Also, there have been various complaints on the VW board about the company not backing up their products.
I'd given up reading the synthetic oil threads....way too much to read, in the Maintenance & Repair section. Take some time to read those 2 synthetic oil threads in there. It's good reading.
Ed, and to those of us who have an H6 with glycol contaminated engine oil , and to those who are suffering with the infamous front end noise, LUCK regretably - is what we need
Cool Dennis. And don't forget you have time left on that warranty, so from now on it's gravy. For an OCD person it's worth having those niggling issues fixed, plus it sounds like the dealer is really going the extra mile.
My wife wouldn't take Sandy over, she really wanted something different, bigger. At least she picked another Scooby.
I've read every Subaru post here placed in the last two years, and this is the first case I can recall of front end noise. Hardly "infamous."
It is not useful to confuse your dealings with a particular dealership with "Subaru," as if Subaru of America has the ability to dictate a customer-friendly policy in every dealership that sells Subies. They don't have nearly that kind of control, and it isn't smart or productive to conclude from your contacts with an unresponsive dealership that the corporation itself is arrogant. I speak as someone who has witnessed (on these boards) countless examples of Subaru doing the right thing by frustrated customers. I also monitor boards for many other makes, and none of them equals Subaru for quality of customer service, at least as measured by posts on Edmunds.
If you two (Tim and Robert) have had such nasty experiences, you might consider whether you did the best job of how you handled your part of the transactions. Polite and direct requests to Subaru of America generally get treated with great respect, and that's a fact.
Every Internet board has a certain culture. It is true that people who post here a lot are great fans of Subarus, but they also know all modern cars are complex and prone to occasional glitches. We have had many previous discussions of known problems with certain Subaru models. I've been impressed over and over by how helpful the Subaru Crew can be when people come here asking for help. But it doesn't seem you guys were asking for help. You wanted to vent.
Just my opinion, and I wish you both luck with your next cars.
Robert: I wasn't even referring to your comments. Someone else here attacked Patti directly, claiming she "doesn't put her words into action".
Sorry, that is blatantly false, as many here can attest to, myself included (she arranged for a free loaner that my dealer didn't want to provide). Plus Ed, plus bit, etc.
CR's surveys factor in things like what lemonrider commented on. His comments don't change the results of the survey, they are part of it (statistically, given a large sample). If you dealer says "they all do that", he is WRONG, too LAZY to fix it, and should lose his franchise, period. It is not true otherwise it would show up in the surveys. Think about it.
lemonrider: Subaru is all about AWD. That statement is like saying "Porsche without power" or "BMW without handling", "Mercedes without luxury". You can't separate the two.
Besides that comment referring only to the OBS, the WRX was their #1 pick in fun to drive, so the opposite is true, Subaru has a lot to offer.
AUDI? Hee hee, good luck! There's a brand known for their historical reliability, LOL! I mean, c'mon, the whole unintended acceleration thing only was believable because their cars were such crap. Ask vocus, VW/Audi gathers wonderful materials but then ruins them with poor assembly quality. They do well early on, in JD Power's 90 day survey, but poorly down the road.
If quality and reliability are all that matters to you, get a Lexus.
It just thought there were better choices for the price and that if you needed AWD, go with the other Impressas.
In a compact sedan comparison by CR, The Subaru Impressa RS came in second of 5 cars, beating out the VW among others, even though the VW was faster. It lost to the Toyota Corolla SE.
Thanks Mike. I checked out your suggestion about the place in Kenilworth. The name of the place is Camptown, and they do have it in stock. I know this sounds a little silly, going nuts over this stuff, but the Redline sells for $7.50 per qt. while Castrol sells for $12.99 per qt. At 5 qts, that adds up! It's just strange to me that there is such a $$ difference between the two.
Basically those guys @ camptown are a BMW race outfit. They are a Redline distributor/retailer so they can buy it cheap for their cars and sell it on the side. I like the redline so far in the XT6 ATF. Upstate Mobil 1 Synthetic was $7.99/Qt.
Yup - I do monitor the boards and - I get involved with the cases that our Reps. are working on. If I see a way that we can be more helpful, I suggest that to the Rep. that is handling the case.
That being said, please remember. I will not/do not post "our side of the story". While I know it would prove to be enlightening, I believe that individual case issues should be kept between the customer and us (SOA). If I am not responding on the boards (in a public forum), it is because there is information in the case that may be in conflict with what is presented here. My role is not to engage in arguing or grandstanding our position. It is to help when I can.
Sorry to dissappoint. I know some things would make for entertaining reading, but it isn't in the best interest of our customers or SOA.
I know this might not be the right board, since it is not a problem but:
Have had a very good experience with Subaru dealerships in Southern California. Shopped around and found all the dealerships courteous and friendly.
The dealership I eventually bought from - Subaru of Santa Monica, was great and the dealer was helpful even after I bought the car.
I have gone to other dealerships to have the car serviced, and was treated well, even though I did not buy the car from them. Just wanted to state this.
I apologize for misquoting Consumer Reports. The magazine I read was in fact not Consumer Reports, but something else.
As for the front end noise and vibration, it was deemed an "Inherent Characteristic" of the vehicle - essentially "they all do that." It's extremely annoying and does nothing to inspire confidence, but according to SOA it is not an issue.
I've got 20k miles on my my GT and have never experienced a front end noise or vibration. I can say the same for 2 other outbacks that my friends own and the Outback that I have rented before making my purchase. On top of that having been on this board for 2 years and can only recall a couple of other comments regarding front end problems.
Sorry Lemonrider. You are just mistating the facts. You certainly should make issue of your own experiences but please don't generalize. I think most of the members here go to great pains to state things as factually as possible.
storyteller, you may never have seen a post on the front end noise but an awful lot of people, including Subaru, is aware of it.
Patti, I assure you you did not disappoint me, Subaru and its recent vehicles, including the VDC, are what disappoints me, and a growing number of other customers.
Bit, Lemonrider has the same experience with his car (the mother of all front end noises) as we had with our my '00 Outback wagon, and the language he quotes is very similar to that which Subaru of America resorted to, after they finally stopped insisting that we were the only persons to report this issue.
Bit, I have a '98OB that made a fairly load squeak in the front end when backing out of my garage (1 inch lip)during the colder months. Also heard it during other situations (like speed bumps) but it didn't occur all the time. The only constant was it happened during the cold season. Never in the summer. I saw a post either here or the I-club that said to WD-40 the bushings. Once this was done I never heard it the rest of the winter. I suspect I'll need to do it again once the cold weather settles in, but at least I know the squeal can be eliminated - at least temporarily. I should mention I have an '01OB as well and have not heard this squeaking noise.
Anyways, since you're in a climate that doesn't get really cold, I would not expect your '01 to have this noise.
I read through all 48 cases we have from folks named Robert Smith on our national database. I cannot find a case file for you. If you could, please call 1-800-SUBARU3 and start a case. Please let the Rep. know that I want to be kept in the loop on the situation and I promise that I'll review the file to see if something more needs to be done.
If you are experiencing a noise over bumps (like railroad tracks), I had done a lot of research on the issue and I can send an explanation for it. But when you are saying a noise, I'm not sure what you mean without specifics.
Again, if you don't have a case with us or if you have not received an explanation, please ask the Customer Service Rep. to let me know and I'll provide the information.
If it is the noise over bumps, it is non-detrimental (annoying maybe), but it relates to the hydrolic fluid in the lines.
If I receive an answer that I do not think is reasonable, I have a tendency to keep at the issue. I was satisfied with the response. Our Technical Helpline can review the situation with the dealer to see if it can be reduced if it is more severe.
Hi all, I have a '98 Subaru Outback with a clutch that "shudders". The problem began after an oil-leak repair by the dealer that required some messing around with the clutch. The dealer says the problem is a rough clutch plate, although that diagnosis is not based on direct obesrvation of the clutch. I am willing to concede that there may be a problem with the clutch plate (rough, burned, etc., although I am not convinced) and the dealer is willing to concede that they should have replaced it during the oil leak repair so we have hit on a compromise: I pay for parts, they pay for labor. After that long intro here is my question: what parts should I expect to be replaced and how much should just the parts cost? The dealer gave a long list of parts that would need to be replaced and a parts cost of $500-$600. I am worried that he is including more parts than may be necessary to make up for the cost to him from having to swallow the labor cost. Am I being paranoid?
I've been away from the Subaru boards for a couple weeks and find they turned very nasty in a short time. Lighten up everybody! Life's too short!
I guess I'm lucky. My 2001 LLBean just turned 26K, and except for new front rotors and pads it has been flawless... AND I got 24.7 MPG (highway) with my last fillup (it has averaged around 21 MPG since ~ 10K break in). Seems the faster I drive and the higher the outside temperature (and the higher the AC cranks) the better the mileage...can't figure it out. No correlation...
Hope everyone out there resolves their problems, sells their "lemons", whatever....
The important thing to remember about the front end noise is that it is accompanied by a strong vibration/clunk in the steering wheel.
Essentially, it feels like the entire front suspension is about to fall apart. It doesn't feel very solid and, while it may not be a safety factor, it does not inspire confidence.
Comments
I'm feel the pull of the dark side. ;-)
So, Y-pipe and headers -- are they all the same part?
I'll keep that in mind since I was told the OE Y-pipe was $300 anyway. Then again, it might just be a loose heat shield.
Ken
the y-pipe is what connects 2 sets of headers into 1 pipe
(bad ascii drawing warning)
=>--o--o-
picture the equal sign as the headers - one on each side of the engine. the greater than sign is the y-pipe, connecting to the minus sign which connects to the cat (the small letter O) and further connects to the second small letter O (muffler).
Not sure how they package it, but maybe the aftermarket headers come packaged with a y-pipe?
-Brian
I read your 7/14 post and can't understand why you would think the Regional Mgr would authorize any warranty work on the gas tank and a/c problems. Why? Because you couldn't duplicate them! My suggestion is to bring it to another dealer and walk in with a smile not a chip on your shoulder. But before you do that make sure you have a problem. A couple of things you can do to insure you don't have a problem is to make sure the arrow on the temperature knob is pointed to the blue side of the dial and not the red side and that you're not paying the gas station attendant $10 and the pump then automatically shuts off when attempting to fill’er up. Comprende?
Also, didn’t you say you had an 86 GL? What car(s) did you have between that and your Forester that makes you a Honda, Toyota, VW Warranty expert? Have lots of problems there too?
Lastly you are way, way out of line about Patti. You obviously are aware she is a Subaru employee, not an Edmonds employee and monitors ALL the Subaru pages on Edmonds when her real job allows. She does this as an extra service to US and tries to assist on a "best effort" basis. Do you honestly think she can read every post AND do her day job? If she doesn’t respond promptly to your beckon call, just post again.
Have a sparkling day!
What you people said.
Our '01 Outback Wagon, everytime we took a slow, tight, turn over a bump it sounded as though the front end was going to fall off. They, Subaru, told us it 'was a trait of the vehicle' or something very similar to that-and, of course, that we were the only ones reporting the problem. Wish you could have heard the silence when I asked the rep how they knew about this 'trait' if we were the only ones reporting the problem............
Guess what?, we were not the only ones.
We have owned five new Subaru vehicles, quality seems to have taken a real nose dive in the last three model years. We now have their most expensive product and it has about the most serious problem one can have with an engine, and guess what, its going in today for trip number three, AND, of course, we are the only ones with this type of problem.
When I think of all the cars we could have gotten for about 30 large.........
1. Go to the dealer you originally bought the car?
2. Go to multiple dealers if the first one had a problem?
The reason I ask is that whenever I have an issue with my car the dealer seams to fix it without an issue. Also, Consumer Reports has been reporting that the quality has actually been going up. Just curious.
You may have gone to a bad dealer service center. Regardless of the make of vehicle, there will be these around.
soobie: since the dealer managed to fix it the first time, I'd go back to them.
CR rates Subaru as the #1 car make in reliability, tied with Toyota. It doesn't mean they are perfect, no car is, but odds are it's as close as you'll get.
I realize that doesn't appease someone that got the bad apple in the batch, but your cars are statistically the exception, not the rule.
-juice
Has your dealer tried replacing the power steering hoses? It doesn't help solve the problem, but at least they may try.
Think of it as free labor. :-)
When was your build date, Ken? IIRC you got one of the very early models, probably back from '97.
-juice
bit
New to the boards, but had a question about my forester. I've been noticing a skip in the engine, almost a split second hesitation, when I'm climbing a hill or accelerating quickly. It's subtle but noticeable. Any thoughts out there? Are others experiencing this hesitation? It's a 2001 L series. Besides the skip, love the car (except my two-year old can easily kick me from the back seat)
mainer5
juice -- My Forester build date is January '98. Given that January is typically a slow month in Japan due to New Year's it just might be a '97 build date. ;-)
I also purchased a replacement pollen filter yesterday. $44 -- man, I miss QSubaru! Oh well, what price clean air?
Ken
Matt: engine skip? Hmm. There are no other symptoms? How is your mileage?
Maybe try some DryGas to get any condensation out of the fuel lines. Kate mentioned it helped her.
-juice
I wanted to get either redline or amsoil, but they are hard to find, especially in such a short time frame.
I appreciate the insight and input from all.
Thanks,
Mark
Ed
-mike
Mine are only intended as observations, a number of us have reported a very major problem with Subaru's flagship engine, and not one comment. I find that interesting, and telling.
Ateixeira, with regard to your comment on the reliablility of Subaru vehicles and the problem car being the exception rather than the rule, please re-read Lemonrider's comments about the front end noise.
Lemonrider, our front end noise was so bad, that the car had to go, and my wife works with someone who did the same thing.
At least this time there is nothing subjective to the problem, glycol is not supposed to be in the engine oil, and even Subaru can't talk their way around this one.
But wait, could an engine which is defective also be "an inherent operating characteristic"?
There are posts at iclub etc about synchro problems with some brands of synthetics in the WRX so I won't be using it for the tranny/diff. The wear issue is less important than the temp one in my WRX. IIRC , you need the NS Mobil 1 for the tranny but not diff (or maybe its the other way around)!
Thanks. I did see that post, but after doing some research, I learned that the Borla headers are not CA emissions friendly. Given that I'll hopefully move on to another Subie in the next year or so, I don't want to go through the hassle of emissions and trading-in/selling a non-compliant vehicle for a small increase in power.
Ken
As my independant mechanic had predicted last year when he recharged it, its leaking, actually at several places. Since I have the Subaru Gold extended warranty I went this year to the dealer to have them check it out. Over $500 to fix, all covered by the warranty.
I got my 6/100K warranty, zero decuctible for my 98 GT at $1100 (almost 500 less than list). Also got to spread the payments over a year to Subaru.
I have had in the 4 1/2 yrs and 70K miles so far covered by the extended warranty:
1.new radio antenna/motor
2. cam oil seal fixed
3. timing belt replaced (I had asked dealer to do timing belt early while they did the seal and I would pay the parts and the little labor which would be above the cost of the seal repair but they managed to con SOA to pay for the whole lot - the belt was "damaged" by the leaking oil!!!)
4. replaced burnt out bulbs in HVAC controls - not actually a covered item but done as a "goodwill gesture " by dealer
5. now these ac repairs.
Admittedly some of these things didn't need fixing if I weren't so OCD about everything working perfectly.
I have never had an extended warranty for a non Detroit car before but I was worried specifically about things like the ac etc which I have found very expensive to fix in other cars.Also had to lay out $700 for the stupid air suspension they had in my 92 Legacy LS. Thank goodness they dropped that sucker after a few years! So when I got the 98 I thought I'd better buy the extended warranty.
Having had to replace a tranny and an engine on a Windstar I wouldn't dream of keeping a Detroit car beyond the bumper to bumper warranty without an extended warranty!
Will see if I eventually break even on my WRXs extended warranty !
I read an article in Consumer Reports New Car Buyers Guide this past weekend. (I believe it was Consumer Reports, I apologize in advance if I am incorrect).
These aren't their exact words, but they are very close:
"If it weren't for the All Wheel Drive, Subaru would have nothing to offer"
In my opinion, sadly this seems to be true.
Good luck with selling yours, there does always seem to be a market for used Subaru's.
As for us, unless Subaru does something extraordinary for us, we are done with this Company-after 5 new ones-Audi is looking real good.
Its almost enough to make one consider an SUV, never thought I would even consider that.
The VW Touraeg (sp) with the V10 diesel would be neat.
As for me, I'm on my first - a Forester - and while it has not been perfect, its problems have been by and large addressed to my satisfaction. I have gotten SoA involved at times; not just Patti (a/k/a "subaru_team") but other reps who do not post here. I have found that the service department of the dealer from which I bought the car left something to be desired, and have since found another dealership which has served me better. I do think my car has certain traits that may be common to the brand; some are bothersome while others are to be expected of a car in Subaru's price range. Having said that it's my opinion that much of the problem lies with dealers who may not understand the product or who basically give customers short shrift. Maybe Subaru isn't their primary brand, I'm not sure - I'm aware of very few Subaru-only dealerships. I can say this: as a former VW owner I have so far been treated far better by SoA and Subaru dealers than I ever was by any VW dealer. That includes current dealerships that sell both VW and Subaru.
At any rate, those of you with legitimate axes to grind should exhaust your remedies before you condemn the make as a whole. Every maker turns out a few lemons and I can say from experience that I've had greater difficulties with other makes in having problems addressed. Service departments vary in quality and attention to detail. Get SoA, NHTSA or the Better Business Bureau involved, start a case. Subaru is a very small niche manufacturer (even though its niche is getting filled by others) and I'm sure has a vested interest in retaining customers. If you've done that and still aren't satisfied then by all means you have a right to complain. I think many Town Hall regulars would agree that I've complained here in the past, and I've had my issues addressed.
Good luck to you all.
Ed
Ed
-mike
Ed
Of the 4-5 cars they tested, the Outback Sport came out at the bottom with the VW comming out on top (also, the VW was priced almost as much as a WRX)
robert116 - if you are going with a different make, stay away from Audi! Their quality has been going downhill pretty rapidly! CR hammered them this year. Go with the other Japanese brands (besides Mitsu and Isuzu) if you are looking for quality and reliability. VW has its quirks as well. Also, there have been various complaints on the VW board about the company not backing up their products.
Just like a car, you won't know until you make the change. There simply are no guarantees.
lemonrider great job taking a quote out of context...
My wife wouldn't take Sandy over, she really wanted something different, bigger. At least she picked another Scooby.
-juice
It is not useful to confuse your dealings with a particular dealership with "Subaru," as if Subaru of America has the ability to dictate a customer-friendly policy in every dealership that sells Subies. They don't have nearly that kind of control, and it isn't smart or productive to conclude from your contacts with an unresponsive dealership that the corporation itself is arrogant. I speak as someone who has witnessed (on these boards) countless examples of Subaru doing the right thing by frustrated customers. I also monitor boards for many other makes, and none of them equals Subaru for quality of customer service, at least as measured by posts on Edmunds.
If you two (Tim and Robert) have had such nasty experiences, you might consider whether you did the best job of how you handled your part of the transactions. Polite and direct requests to Subaru of America generally get treated with great respect, and that's a fact.
Every Internet board has a certain culture. It is true that people who post here a lot are great fans of Subarus, but they also know all modern cars are complex and prone to occasional glitches. We have had many previous discussions of known problems with certain Subaru models. I've been impressed over and over by how helpful the Subaru Crew can be when people come here asking for help. But it doesn't seem you guys were asking for help. You wanted to vent.
Just my opinion, and I wish you both luck with your next cars.
Steve
Sorry, that is blatantly false, as many here can attest to, myself included (she arranged for a free loaner that my dealer didn't want to provide). Plus Ed, plus bit, etc.
CR's surveys factor in things like what lemonrider commented on. His comments don't change the results of the survey, they are part of it (statistically, given a large sample). If you dealer says "they all do that", he is WRONG, too LAZY to fix it, and should lose his franchise, period. It is not true otherwise it would show up in the surveys. Think about it.
lemonrider: Subaru is all about AWD. That statement is like saying "Porsche without power" or "BMW without handling", "Mercedes without luxury". You can't separate the two.
Besides that comment referring only to the OBS, the WRX was their #1 pick in fun to drive, so the opposite is true, Subaru has a lot to offer.
AUDI? Hee hee, good luck! There's a brand known for their historical reliability, LOL! I mean, c'mon, the whole unintended acceleration thing only was believable because their cars were such crap. Ask vocus, VW/Audi gathers wonderful materials but then ruins them with poor assembly quality. They do well early on, in JD Power's 90 day survey, but poorly down the road.
If quality and reliability are all that matters to you, get a Lexus.
-juice
• All the scores were very close, and fell into the "Very Good" category on their bar chart.
• The OBS got CR's much vaunted "Recommended" check mark.
• They didn't say—or even suggest—that the OBS handled poorly, only that the WRX and RS handled better.
Bob
Only one other car tested had AWD, and it was significantly slower. Unbearably slow, IMO, with 123hp vs. 165.
-juice
In a compact sedan comparison by CR, The Subaru Impressa RS came in second of 5 cars, beating out the VW among others, even though the VW was faster. It lost to the Toyota Corolla SE.
Thanks again folks!
Mark
-mike
That being said, please remember. I will not/do not post "our side of the story". While I know it would prove to be enlightening, I believe that individual case issues should be kept between the customer and us (SOA). If I am not responding on the boards (in a public forum), it is because there is information in the case that may be in conflict with what is presented here. My role is not to engage in arguing or grandstanding our position. It is to help when I can.
Sorry to dissappoint. I know some things would make for entertaining reading, but it isn't in the best interest of our customers or SOA.
Thanks for your understanding!
Patti
Ross
Have had a very good experience with Subaru dealerships in Southern California. Shopped around and found all the dealerships courteous and friendly.
The dealership I eventually bought from - Subaru of Santa Monica, was great and the dealer was helpful even after I bought the car.
I have gone to other dealerships to have the car serviced, and was treated well, even though I did not buy the car from them. Just wanted to state this.
As for the front end noise and vibration, it was deemed an "Inherent Characteristic" of the vehicle - essentially "they all do that." It's extremely annoying and does nothing to inspire confidence, but according to SOA it is not an issue.
I've got 20k miles on my my GT and have never experienced a front end noise or vibration. I can say the same for 2 other outbacks that my friends own and the Outback that I have rented before making my purchase. On top of that having been on this board for 2 years and can only recall a couple of other comments regarding front end problems.
Sorry Lemonrider. You are just mistating the facts. You certainly should make issue of your own experiences but please don't generalize. I think most of the members here go to great pains to state things as factually as possible.
bit
Patti, I assure you you did not disappoint me, Subaru and its recent vehicles, including the VDC, are what disappoints me, and a growing number of other customers.
Bit, Lemonrider has the same experience with his car (the mother of all front end noises) as we had with our my '00 Outback wagon, and the language he quotes is very similar to that which Subaru of America resorted to, after they finally stopped insisting that we were the only persons to report this issue.
I have a '98OB that made a fairly load squeak in the front end when backing out of my garage (1 inch lip)during the colder months. Also heard it during other situations (like speed bumps) but it didn't occur all the time. The only constant was it happened during the cold season. Never in the summer. I saw a post either here or the I-club that said to WD-40 the bushings. Once this was done I never heard it the rest of the winter. I suspect I'll need to do it again once the cold weather settles in, but at least I know the squeal can be eliminated - at least temporarily.
I should mention I have an '01OB as well and have not heard this squeaking noise.
Anyways, since you're in a climate that doesn't get really cold, I would not expect your '01 to have this noise.
Thanks!
Patti
Again, if you don't have a case with us or if you have not received an explanation, please ask the Customer Service Rep. to let me know and I'll provide the information.
If it is the noise over bumps, it is non-detrimental (annoying maybe), but it relates to the hydrolic fluid in the lines.
If I receive an answer that I do not think is reasonable, I have a tendency to keep at the issue. I was satisfied with the response. Our Technical Helpline can review the situation with the dealer to see if it can be reduced if it is more severe.
Just give us a chance?
Thanks!
Patti
I have a '98 Subaru Outback with a clutch that "shudders". The problem began after an oil-leak repair by the dealer that required some messing around with the clutch. The dealer says the problem is a rough clutch plate, although that diagnosis is not based on direct obesrvation of the clutch. I am willing to concede that there may be a problem with the clutch plate (rough, burned, etc., although I am not convinced) and the dealer is willing to concede that they should have replaced it during the oil leak repair so we have hit on a compromise: I pay for parts, they pay for labor. After that long intro here is my question: what parts should I expect to be replaced and how much should just the parts cost? The dealer gave a long list of parts that would need to be replaced and a parts cost of $500-$600. I am worried that he is including more parts than may be necessary to make up for the cost to him from having to swallow the labor cost. Am I being paranoid?
Thanks!
Kevin
I guess I'm lucky. My 2001 LLBean just turned 26K, and except for new front rotors and pads it has been flawless... AND I got 24.7 MPG (highway) with my last fillup (it has averaged around 21 MPG since ~ 10K break in). Seems the faster I drive and the higher the outside temperature (and the higher the AC cranks) the better the mileage...can't figure it out. No correlation...
Hope everyone out there resolves their problems, sells their "lemons", whatever....
Essentially, it feels like the entire front suspension is about to fall apart. It doesn't feel very solid and, while it may not be a safety factor, it does not inspire confidence.