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Diesel vs. Gasoline
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said he has been very happy with the 454 so far. Engine pulls the weight of the truck around effortlessly, and can really feel a fat torque curve. says the engine really comes alive if you let it rev from 3000-4000 before shifting. truck now has 3000 miles on it with nothing but highway miles, and is getting at best 10.5 mpg, at worst 8 mpg. IMO, thats incredible for a 14000# truck. he says it turns about 2300 rpms at 70 in OD. his one complaint about the truck is the speed sensitive steering is TOO sensitive for his likeing.
his previous diesels only got about 12-13 mpg. that definitely doesn't make the engine worth buying. My uncle, who runs a shop that uses the exactly same equipped and weight of trucks, has a couple of F450's with Powerstrokes. the ones with the diesel and manual are getting 10 mpg, the ones with the diesel and automatic are getting 6 mpg. plus the fact that diesel is generally about $.92/gal, and gas is as low as $.72/gal, my uncle is ready to trade in everyone of those powerstrokes, while my dad is very happy.
I would bet that if they had a 4.10 or 4.5 ratio, like my dad's truck, they could get better mileage.
By the way, my dad had an '88 Ford superduty, nonturbo, indirect, 5 spd, 180,000 miles when he traded it for chevy-- with the 5.13 gears, truck weighing about 13000#, he was getting 11~12 mpg with the diesel. problem was, 70-75 mph was all she could go, that was redline! damn good truck, though.
I have a friend who has had a 94 GMC 2500HD 6.5L Turbo Diesel 5spd 4x4, he gets excellent milage of about 17 average. the truck has eighty thousand miles on it and goes out of warrenty in may. They are trying hard to get rid of it before then. Just before they bought the truck at 45k it had a new motor put in it. After they bought it they only hauled wood occasionally and light farm work.
The second motor has had thousands of dollars in repairs done to it and it may need a new motor again. The GM is the quietest diesel in the cab, but I definately wouldn't give the extra 4 grand for one. I wouldn't be caught dead with one out of warrenty because of all the problems they have. My friend wants to get a new 6.0L chevy because you can buy an aweful lot of gas for the cost of a diesel.
PS. I just got my 99 GMC EXT CAB 4x4 5.3L AUTO SLT and love it. It is a wonderful truck. If you want the utility of a diesel, try Fords new Excursion because the 7.3L Navistar is supposed to be available and it is a reliable and powerful motor.
My 2 cents
No airaid, thus lifeless..you know.
The Allison 1000 is actually a 5 speed automatic, not a 6. It is now scheduled for a late fall introduction in the 2000 model Rams. If you would like to read about the transmission, click here.
hope this response doesn't catch you too late,but my 2 cents worth on the GM diesel is this...The 6.5TD was a "clean sheet" diesel design initially
(not the 5.7l gas conversion used in cars) from Detroit Diesel and the block is quite robust(good for 300k miles+).
I'll list the Bad points 1st;
1. problematic injection pumps on '94-'96 units
Stanadyne has since solved problems w/ pump updates
2.Dealer service...this is probably the largest factor in dissatisfied GM diesel ownership and continues to be a problem today.
Good points:
1. Robust,refined design along with '97 cooling system changes make this a very reliable design.
2.modest oil change requirements 7qts w/filter available at the Walmarts around the country.
price out a cummins or navistar oil change.
3. mileage in the 16-19 mpg range(not towing)not the best,perhaps,but not bad.
4.parts are generally less expensive...many GM parts sources will discount 20% or more...injection system components I believe are
less expensive across the board compared to navistar and cummins.
I researched all three and ended up w/ a 96 k2500
6.5td...I know I don't have the power of a cummins
or navistar but I do have enough for my needs (about 5500lbs. towing)
I think the 'Burb with the 6.5TD/3.73ls/4l80e would be a nice combo and well suited to a '2 horse'.
A couple caveats,find a good service source before you buy and take it in as little as possible after you buy. Add as big a tranny cooler on the front
as will fit. The GM HD auto is one of the heavier duty units available so far, in the 3/4 ton. and oh, yes almost forgot...get the model 2500 for the
heavy duty components.
(guess this was 3 or 4 cents worth)
BK
Thanks for your 2 cents worth. Actually, that was more like a dimes worth. This is what I was looking for. From other sources, I was thinking that GM had worked out a lot of the problems, but they still have that stigma from earlier screw-ups.
Your response was not to late. I will probably be purchasing within a week.
Thanks again for your info. This format is great and reading the responses has been a real education for me.
I will let you know how everything turns out.
Wes.
Thanks,
Tom
The axle ratio is not in the VIN, but there are only 2 in the Ram, 3.54 and 4.10, so if it can't seem to get past 70mph, it's probably the 4.10.
Another possibility is a similar Chevy/GM product.
Had considered the Dodge Ram 2500 but at the auto show last weekend here in Atlanta I discovered just how little room there is in the back of any truck that is not a Crew Cab.
Comments?
Go for the SD, PS. There will be some who disagree with me but I love this truck! I have the F250 PS with auto Trans. Great milage for a big truck and thus far maintance is very reasonable.
Mroffshore
I have a cummins diesel and wonder if anyone out there has any info on how to quiet this thing down.
thanks
Heck, on nice sunny days with temps around 70-80, I open all the windows and turn off the radio just to listen to it!
Then he saw the new Ford super duty and had to have one.He opted for the gas engine as both him and my mom are losing thier hearing and had trouble talking on trips.
Anyway,it seems that some of the big rigs I hear at stop lights are quieter than this pickup.So I thought I'd ask around and see if anyone has tried anything to lower the db level.
I may trade it for a gas truck,but have'nt really made up my mind yet. I enjoy reading your replies,and also the humor.I know guys at work who love the smell of diesel fumes,oh well,whatever turns your crank
Thanks,mhop in Michigan
Go spartans
BIG difference here. The 92 Ram/Cummins was a slightly different animal. The truck was devoid of the additional insulation that Dodge began using with the new body in 1994. Cummins also quieted the engine down at the same time because of new emissions requirements. You're right - an 89-93 Cummins is a LOUD truck; my 96 with the windows closed can be quite pleasant when it wants to be.
Thanks for the info,will be making a decision on this truck in a week or two.If I keep it , will try some sound deadening methods.We drove it thru burger king drive thru and they asked me to shut off my truck!
Iv'e been doing a lot of reading in the different conferences about trucks etc and you guys seem to be quite knowledgeable,I,ve learned alot.
My wife wants me to sell the truck and get a Grand cherokee.I like the looks of them,but after driving one ,they dont really impress me.I have been driving 1 ton bucket trucks at work and I guess im use to having that roomy feeling around me.Plus the ford 350 seems to ride better than that jeep
Thanks,mhop
http://www.forddirect.com.
Just my two cents worth, but I found direct quote on a Superduty. It sounds like they have dealers set up throughout the US.
Gist of it is... it's wrong to cheat on paying your highway taxes
A few years back, the feds changed the formulation rules for diesel. One of the things that they did was require that all non-taxed fuel be dyed red. (This was a major ding at Flying-J! They had advertised in the trucking industry that they dyed their fuel red so you knew that it was genuine F-J.)Now the deal is that if you'e caught with red fuel in your tanks it's $10,000 to the feds and maybe a year free room and board.
This was intended to stop the large off road users from re-selling un-taxed fuel. So what do the feds do now? They go after the little guy and fine the heck out of them. The big guys pull a "It was a work error. We made a mistake. Let us pay the tax and we wont do it again." (Exit laughing all the way to the bank.)
Now if your neighbor sees you transfering fuel from your home heating tank to your truck, they can call the feds and get a reward. I know that the bounty is 10% of recovered taxes through the IRS. I don't know if fines are included in the bounty percentage.
Rich
I wonder how much it costs the taxpayers to get a search warrant each time they want to snoop inside your fuel tank?
By the way, is that smoke I see coming from your chimney on a red smog day?
Note that at these meets there are also diesels that are trailered home, and such, so the died fuel is avaiable and legal for many of the trucks there, so long as they don't go on road.
Appearently if you use the died fuel once they can tell seven tanks latter.
Slap some of those v10 Magnum and v10 Triton stickers on your truck.
Feds snooping into your fuel tank? Get a search warrant!
My questions are: Should I buy the 3.73 with Automatic or should I get the 4.10 for hauling this much weight?
I really don't want the 6 speed because I've been hearing they are having a heap of trouble with the clutches.
Next question is this: Based on the info I provided in the first paragraph, will I be legal to carry up to 20,000 lbs on the trailer?
Is anyone out there using this senario? If so, please e-mail me at dhumble@disciples.com
I'm so confused.....
Retired my F-350 CC diesel 6 months ago and am driving around in a 1/2 ton silverado since then. Ford salesman at your dealer should help. I'd go F450 probably......
the highest tow rating of any of the Super Duty line with a Crew Cab is the F450 4x2 crew Chassis Cab with V10, 4R100 automatic, and 5.38 axle - this has a trailer rating of 18,200. (An identical F550 is 18,100.) The GCWR is 26,000. The highest of the "pickup-based" Super Duty trucks is a regular cab F450 4x2, V10/automatic/5.38, which is rated at 18,800. In all of the above, the Powerstroke knocks about 500 pounds off the trailer rating.
If your trailer truly weighs 20,000 pounds, you are in need of a real medium duty truck. The only truck Ford lists with a trailer rating over 20,000 pounds is the F750 with GVWR of 33,000 and GCWR of 60,000. The 750 does come in all three Super Duty cabs - regular, 4-door Super, and 4-full-door Crew.
Unfortunately, you only get opinions here.
Reread all the posts in this column and you will have tons of opinions on diesel vs gas.
But the decision is ultimately yours.
A friend of mine here in Denver took his to Cummins for his 24,000 mile tune up. They messed something up, and his smokes more now, and takes longer to start, and runs with less power. The Dodge dealers here aren't capable of working on them either, apparently.
Somewhere, somebody has to know what to do. My friend would appreciate it.
Take those Cummins trucks to a Cummins factory shop. It's all they work on, and they know that engine like the proverbial back of the hand. I'm lucky in that my Dodge dealer has several Cummins trained/certified techs on site, but I'm in the lucky minority there.
For the nearest Cummins authorized service center, click here, and enter the appropriate state.
That's rough - if the Cummins shop had trouble with it, then there's something seriously screwed up with that engine...
I'm currently in the market for a diesel pickup (3/4 ton, extended cab, long bed). I plan on keeping this for a long, lllloooonnngggg time. I previously owned a 1995 Dodge with the Cummins. This was an awesome pickup and I never had a single problem. After driving it for a while I said, "I'll never own another gasoline pickup." Well, we all know about saying "never"...For about a year now I've been driving a Ford with a 460. Now I'm saying, "I'll never own another gasoline pickup."
I've got a few questions for the group:
1) Does anyone have any details about the long-term repair/maintenance of the new 24-valve Cummins. I've read the horror stories about the electronic fuel delivery of the PowerStrokes and this is about to frighten me away from the new Cummins. Should I be looking for a 97/early 98 instead so I can get the mechanical fuel delivery? I've got an E-Mail out to Cummins about this, but no response yet.
2) What's the deal with Dodge's 6-speed? I've been hearing about them for 3-4 years now but the dealers still just look at you with their mouths open like your speaking Swahili or something. The 6-speed is supposedly available in a 99 (Edmunds and Kelley list it), but the Dodge web site doesn't mention it at all. I've seen only one on the used market and that was on a 3500.
3) Why does it seem that so many is trying to tow with automatics. I've even heard people say "automatics are better for towing" but they've never been able to come up with any explanation of what they meant by "better". If that were true, wouldn't semi trucks all have automatics. After all, towing is the only thing they do???? I've always preferred a manual shift (just a personal preference) so I have no experience with an auto in a pickup. My wife and I even had to special order her Honda so we could get the trim we wanted with a 5-speed.
Any comments on any of these topics/questions would be much appreciated.
1) The 24 valve Cummins had some drivability problems, the main of which required a recall of the early deliveries to reflash and reprogram the computer. Cummins will be supplying a revised engine to Dodge beginning in January of 2000 to address the remaining complaints.
2) The 6 speed was actually built for a few hundred orders in 1999 when the window for ordering was open in January and February. New Venture then had a production problem which needed to be addressed before they could build any. The orders which DaimlerChrysler had already accepted were built, but no further 1999 orders were taken. The 6 speed will be an option for the first part of 2000 with the current engine, then beconme standard with the revised Cummins after January.
3) Automatics better for towing - here's a debate that has been going on for a long time. The benefits of a properly equipped truck with an automatic is the transmission's ability to pick the most suitable gear for the throttle input, the road, and the load. While a pro driver in a semi is well-schooled to pick the proper of as many as 18 gears, Joe Average in a pickup tends to leave a manual trans in the same gear and burn it out. Automatics in trucks with factory tow packages also include auxiliary coolers to keep the trans fluid at the right temperature under extreme use. As for heavy trucks getting automatics, many cities have switched to automatics in garbage trucks because of the low-speed stop-and-go operation that would potherwise keep a driver shifting every 5 seconds.
Hope that helps some - feel free to ask more!
Manual transmissions can break, but automatic transmissions burn up. So the debate goes on. Bottom line, you have to take what the manufacturer offers.
Thanks for your response. In the case of auto vs. manual it sounds like that an auto "can" do the job but only if it's strong enough (sounds like Dodge's current offering isn't) and if you take care of it.
Got some long-term maintenance info back from Cummins on their new 24-valve 5.9L. The valve adjustment interval was extended to every 100K (previously 24K, then every 40K thereafter). The new electronic injectors are expected to last well over 500K miles if you replace the fuel filters as recommended. New injectors are around $400-$600 now, but by the time you'll need them Cummins thinks the price will be down to a price comparable to the old ones. The new electronic fuel pump has NO THROTTLE LINKAGE -- it's a "drive-by-wire" system that senses the pedal position electronically (not sure if I like that). I was also told that the engine computer is all Dodge and it's pretty stupid. Apparently there are a lot of cool things you can do with the Cummins computer like cruise control, torque curve adjustment, pto speed control, etc. None of that is available with the Dodge computer. You just get 235 or 215 HP depending if you want manual or automatic. No rumors yet of an after-market chip for the thing.
My conclusion: if you're satisfied with the 235HP output of the Dodge computer, it's probably an OK choice to go with the 24-valve. If you want more, you're better off with a 12-valve and a Banks kit or hoping for an after-market chip. Anybody want to jump in on this, I'm all ears......
My Dodge dealer told me I can order the 6-speed manual on a 2000 model today but it's "on restriction" meaning that an 8-12 week delivery will turn into 12-20 weeks. He said if I don't mind waiting, I can get a 6-speed for Christmas.
More options, more decisions to make. Hey, anybody want to buy a Ford with a 460?