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Vibe Maintenance & Repair Concerns
detroitdriver
Member Posts: 6
I have posted versions of this before on www.generationvibe.com and www.matrixvibe.net (both good sites) but I thought I might get a different sample of info here.
I have been experiencing intermittent stalling on my 2003 Pontiac Vibe GT. The stalling happens after I depress the clutch when coming to a stop or turning into a parking lot, ect.
I have had the vehicle into two service departments for a total of four times. One service department was able to reproduce the failure but didn't have any idea how to rectify the problem. The other service department wasn't able to reproduce the failure. Thus they didn't have anything to go by. The failure doesn't produce any error codes in the computer.
I was just wondering if anyone has experienced this with either their Vibe GT or the Matrix XRS (same powertrain).
Thanks,
I have been experiencing intermittent stalling on my 2003 Pontiac Vibe GT. The stalling happens after I depress the clutch when coming to a stop or turning into a parking lot, ect.
I have had the vehicle into two service departments for a total of four times. One service department was able to reproduce the failure but didn't have any idea how to rectify the problem. The other service department wasn't able to reproduce the failure. Thus they didn't have anything to go by. The failure doesn't produce any error codes in the computer.
I was just wondering if anyone has experienced this with either their Vibe GT or the Matrix XRS (same powertrain).
Thanks,
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kirstie_h
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I am having the exact same problems with my otherwise good vehicle.
I have an appointment on Wed. with an actual "Toyota" guy. I think he is a specialist and is not at any one dealership ever. I am not sure on this point. But, I think he is authorized by Toyota to do more. We will see.
This will be my third trip in and I am getting fairly frustrated to say the least.
This is the thing; I am a fairly good mechanic myself. I have owned 3 Toyotas which I have done all of the repair work on myself. Not to say that they were ever really problematic. But all of them went to @ 220k miles.
The first thing I did was buy a set of shop manuals for the car. That is what I do when I get a new car. The manuals have a good trouble-shooting guideline for figuring out any problem. The manuals led me straight to what I feel is the problem. It has to do with the ISC valve. This is sometimes call the IAC (Idle control valve). To make things a little shorter I will tell you that it lead me to check the voltage to this valve. This is easy to do with a volt-meter. There should be 9-14 volts present when the car is on. Mine shows 0. This tells me that the ISC which controls idle speed is not able to work. I told the mechanic this the last time I came in and he sort of laughed at me. Anyway, they replace this valve (assumably without checking the power supply to it) and returned the car to me. It stalled about 20 minutes later. I knew it would as it cannot work without voltage. There is an Integrated Circuit in the valve body which needs this current to work.
The manuals suggest checking continuity in the wires involved. They come from the ECU. That is what I believe needs to be done next. This will show is the problem is in the wiring (or wiring harness) or the ECU itself. The ECU sends out positive voltage (9-14 volts) to one terminal of the ISC valve. It also sends out the information for the valve to make adjustments (RSD terminal). The only other terminal on the ISC valve is for ground. Without these working, there is no way the valve can function.
Sorry for all of the details. I hope they are clear.
The reason the car intermittendently stalls is that the other engine control systems are trying to compensate for the lack of idle control. You may notice that the car bogs down a bit just as you start to accelerate from a stand-still. This is the lag of the airlow meter kicking in when the air starts moving in to the throttle body.
It is possible that this is not the exact same scenario you have but I would guess it is the same. I will let you know what I come up with at Toyota on Wed.
Good luck and keep me updated as well.
Scott
wendholtsj@aol.com
My son bought an AWD Vibe a week ago today. From the time he drove it off the dealer's lot (approx 130 miles from here) until 3 days ago it had a peculiar intermittent hesitation or stalling problem. He could be driving in traffic and while holding the accelerator steady the Vibe started losing speed. The engine RPMs would increase but it was as though the transmission was disengaged. It has now been in the local Pontiac dealership for 3 days and they do not know how to fix it. They have called the next closest Pontiac dealership (about 25 miles away) and they don't know how to fix it either. They say they don't have the equipment or software to diagnose and remedy the problem. WAY TO GO GM!! Your warranty is pretty much worthless if your own dealers don't know how to service the cars they sell. So my son is paying for the first new car he has ever purchased and has had the privilege of driving a rented Cavalier for 3 days out of the 7 he has owned the Vibe and has no idea when or if he will ever get a reliable Vibe. I blame myself in part because I recommended he get the GM product based on my good experiences with 3 previous new GM purchases. My confidence in GM is definitely shaken and have I decided not to buy the new Bonneville for now.
We're thinking of helping our son purchase a Vibe. The post from GMloyal60 was an initial red flag, and we've been trying to understand this problem.
Can the 02 sensor problem be tested before purchase? Or does usage bring out the problem. I'd like to know ahead of time! Thanks for any thoughts on this.
O2 sensors operate in the hottest part of the engine - the exhaust manifold - so they tend to get "fried". Plus with the tightening smog pollution standards over the last five or six years, it has become more and more routine to replace them at intervals, whereas back in the 80's, for instance, the same sensor might be in there the whole life of the car. The fall-out of all this is that more and more replacement O2 sensors were needed, they became cheaper and not as good, kind of like an almost disposable part of the engine, like air filters or something.
Check your local car parts store ads - sensors for many models these days can be bought for $20 or so - I saw an ad in the paper a couple of weeks back where they were selling them in volume discounts!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
sure and each time it was 0. I will check it right at the dealership if I have to, I guess. But going on the assumption that there is power there and that ther ISC is working. How do you account for the idle bouncing around just after the rpms try to fall to idle speed? Maybe fuel??? I hope they turn something up. I just wanted to update the board.
Thanks,
Scott Wendholt
Thinking of looking into this myself. Have to decide if this is a "feature", the Club is a wheel lock in any case.
I also think that the lights come on too early. Anybody try anything to increase the light transmission of the sensor cover on the left front of the dash?
I would get the wheel lock fixed, even though it won't even slow a car thief down. I heard a woman on "Click and Clack" say that her car was stolen, but the thieves were very polite...they left her Club lying on the curb undamaged!
I cannot believe they are handling things this way. Especially since they would liable if the stall lead to an accident with a serious outcome. The problem is very well documented at this point.
We will see what happens next. I am prepared for the Lemon Law remedy if they continue along these lines. I just thought everyone would be interested to hear how I am being treated with my 2003 Matrix which has 5000 miles on it.
I will stay in touch. Any ideas would be welcomed. I have been posting in this forum for the last 2 weeks if anyone wants to refer to those posts.
Scott Wendholt
wendholtsj@aol.com
After the service manager at Rockland Toyota told me that he wanted to "make me happy with my new car" I asked him what he thought I should do to be satisfied. He said he did not know. Then said that if was his own car, he wouldn't be satisfied. That is when I asked for one 2 minute favor. I told him that I wanted to come to the dealership with my Toyota manual and volt-meter and show him in person that there is no powere to the ISC. He said he couldn't because he "had to do payroll". But he said he would do it himself and call me back. That was yesterday at 9:30 am. Now it is noon the next day and he has not called back. When I try to reach him, I am told he is unavailable. I left a voice message and am still waiting for this simple answer.
Meanwhile I am waiting to hear back from the district rep.
I will post a follow-up when it comes.
Thanks.
Scott
The crux of our conversation was that the dealership would keep the car and go over it again. And, if going forward there was no reason for "concern" they would return the car to me. I asked him about the fact that the problem has been documented and admitted to by toyota people and he said he wanted to treat it in a matter that was going forward from here. In other words, see if there still "is" a problem. I think I see what they are setting up here. I will let you all know what happens.
Thanks
1matrix
wait for the terms of the lemon law...
I really think the dealership is saying bogus stuff. It's not like the engine is used in the Celica GTS also.
The Celica GTS is the same engine, although I am sure there are some differences in the main computers as well as wiring routes and harnesses. This must be a Matrix XRS problem. I have run into 2 others on a different website/forum. It was mentioned earlier. (matrixvibe.net) Look under the general section, then "Vibe GT Stalls" if you are interested.
Thanks.
I am still in limbo. The zone rep. promised to call today but did not.
Scott
Matrix XRS=> 2ZZ-GE
Celica GT-S=> 2ZZ-GE
Vibe GT=> 2ZZ-GE
Corolla Fielder (which the Vibe & Matrix are really based on, just different styling, inside and out) => 2ZZ-GE
while there will be slight differences in the ECU (rev limiter) and wiring harness...they all function the same. It could be a slight error in the ECU programming, which can be be overwritten (instead of costly ECU replacement) with the new code.
I have a distinct feeling that the techs are plugging in the code scanner....and nothing comes up, so no problem they see without any real work done.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1860245371
I was told the repairs would cost around $5000. I don't know much about cars and I was wondering if anyone thought that this figure would be in the right ballpark. How can I tell if the engine has been damaged, they dont quote the engine on the estimate I received.
Just wondering whether it would be worth it, Would come out to about 10,000-11,000 total for a vibe which is about 50% of its new value.
Thanks a lot of any help you can give.
IMHO, you are taking a major risk buying any wrecked car, especially without being able to inspect it! How do you know the seller is telling the truth? There could be major concealed damage. I wouldn't buy ANY used car without having my mechanic inspect it, never mind one that was wrecked. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING to even consider this???? What happens if you had bought it and then find out that there is major other damage? Good luck getting your money back.
This comes under the heading "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is."
Thank you!
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Any update on the car? Did Toyota manage to fix the stalling problem for you? If they did, what was the problem?
thanks,
ray.
Yup
I am just wondering if anyone can provide me a link to the info that Rufus was refering to.
any reply would be much appreciated.
Rufus' quote "
Edmunds tells us how much we should pay for a car and that all dealers are part of a Satanic network of evil guys. So when I went in and demanded my $3000 rebate, the dealer refused to give me what I deserve (according to Edmunds) and said the rebate was only $2000. I know they are lying cuz Edmunds says they are. My question is should I get a $1000 check from Edmunds over this?
"
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Fit and finish: Yes, we have not been happy with the plastic rear seat cup holder. The springs are subject to breaking. Also, the 'under the stick shift' compartment door does not stay closed
Solution: GM was wonderful to me. After 4 visits, I was talking to customer service in Detroit, the engineers in Freemont California, and in contact with GM Hq. They were on notice that I was going to get a new Vibe out of all this headache. GM could not have been more responsive. In the end, it was the Toyota engineers which solved my problems, but my hat goes off to GM doing their best to make me satisfied.
My advice: Get out your handbook, and make some Toyota managers shake in their boots. Bad press is bad press. GM knew that I would take them to the mat if my car was not either fixed, or a new one parked in my driveway should one more check engine light come on. Don't waste time with the dealer....go right to the top!! It works.
Wheather striping on driver door. I've had it replaced twice (so my third one) and the other day I pushed the button, window came down, and weather striping started coming out of the frame again. I think I'm going to snap.
$2000 factory to consumer direct
$1000 factory to dealer incentive. You have to pry this $1000 away from them. If you don't they are making a pretty profit off of you.
Feel free to continue your discussion in our Matrix & Vibe Enthusiasts and/or Incentives/Rebates discussions. And let's get back to the subject of this discussion. Thanks!
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
I called Pontiac costumer service and tried to find out if there was any fix for this, such as the dealer reprograming the computer, but I guess what I was trying to ask her was going right over her head. I also brought it up with my dealer and he claims he can't find out anything either.
Does anyone on this group know of a fix for this issue, or does anyone have a phone number for someone with more technical knowledge than the regular costumer service people? I don't even care if the number isn't toll free, this little quirk bugs me and I would like to be able to get it changed.
Thanks, Don
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Don