I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

The 289 was a good engine, but heavy and it got winded early. But sturdy enough. Not sure it could pull a very big horse trailer and horse. Horses are heavy critters. You know, Hollywood, anything goes. Besides, Ed could tell you if something was going wrong.

stickguy · December 2003

Don't forget, in one episode Ed drove a milk truck, so maybe they took liberties with the Lark too?

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

So, team, what do you think of this deal? What's my offer?

http://www.craigslist.org/pen/car/20952175.html

parm · December 2003

Greetings! I've not read many of the posts here, but I recognize a lot of the participants names. Could this be our "new" classic car forum?

My 1960's Convertibles thread in the Coupe/Convertibles forum is dying on the vine. If it weren't for Mr. Shiftright, it'd probably be already dead.

Glad to see this thread. Keep up the good work.

fintail · December 2003

Dunno...1600-2000ish for the Buick if the paint and interior is nice and good colors. I suspect you could get another engine for under a grand, if you do it all yourself.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

You can get a rebuilt long block from rebuilt.com, with warranty for about $2,500 delivered to your door.

If indeed the owner "fried the rods", whatever that means, it is possible the crankshaft in the original engine is beyond repair.

Yeah, I could build it myself but machine work is so expensive it might pay to just order up an engine.

Too bad it wasn't a two-door hardtop instead of 4-door hardtop. The 2 doors are worth double the price with half the doors!

PARM--we aren't just about classics, but also anything just plain weird.

andys120 · December 2003

You ought to post that '57 Cad you found here and let us chew on it.

Shifty, I wonder if the 4-dr. HTs aren't perhaps more rare now than convts and 2-dr HTs. I think they're kinda cool, it was a form unique to the 50s and 60s, unlikely to ever return.

Car watching tip...some 1962 episodes of the old TV series Naked City are now available on DVD. This series was one of the first to be shot on location in the streets of the city.

It's a lot of fun just watching the cars in the background. There's plenty of Detroit Iron from the 50s and early 60s, the cops drive Pontiacs (?), The foreign machinery is mostly incidental but there's an incredible variety, so far I've spotted two 356 Coupes, a Sprite, a TR-3, a Renault 2CV, Citroen DS, even what looked like a Facel Vega.

Oh yeah the drama is well done too and actors like Martin Sheen, Robert Duval and Robert Blake show up early in their careers.

ateixeira · December 2003

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid93/p3e2864aa063d76f73ee7- 8998b88e9a48/fa3fe2cf.jpg

MG?

Drove by me the other day. Very cool. He had the tonneau cover over the passenger seat. Right hand drive!

-juice

andys120 · December 2003

too bad ya didn't have time to open up the f-stop.

Every British sports car of the 30s and 40s looked more or less like that one but an MG-TC is the most likely, it seems to have the tall wheels that would preclude the later TD or TF.

I saw a TF 6 weeks ago.

suavechavo · December 2003

Dodge Ram Charger. Not the older 79s and 80s model but a newer one based on the 94-2000 model Ram and had the current Rams 20" chrome wheels. From the back it looked like a really big Durango, and that's what I originally thought it was. But it was way larger and was a 2 door and had small side windows like a supercab truck has. It had Chihuhua license plates, so I guess it's only available for the Mexican market. Too bad, it looked great.

andys120 · December 2003

Here's the list of VIN prefixes that indicate the
"country of origin. It's always the first digit (or letter) of the VIN-

              1- USA
              2- CANADA
              3- MEXICO
              4- USA*
              6- AUSTRALIA
              9- BRAZIL
              J- JAPAN
              K- KOREA
              S- ENGLAND**
              V- FRANCE
              W- GERMANY
              Y- SWEDEN
              Z- ITALY

* I believe they use 4 to designate vehicles built in the US but not by GM, Ford or DCX.

**I believe includes the entire United Kingdom including Northern Ireland but not the Republic of Ireland.

Thanks to Autoweek which published that list many years ago. Since then two countries have emerged as sources for vehicles sold in North America: Finland and Hungary. If you spot a parked Audi TT (Gyor, Hungary) or Saab convertible (Valmet, Finland) peek in the windshield and let us know what that first letter is!

I hope this helps.

parm · December 2003

Could you please do me a favor? I'm not at home now and can't recall the url address for the MTC. Can you please paste it here or email it to sparmerlee@yahoo.com

Thanks.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Looks more like a TA or TB because of the slope of the rear fenders and the tiny tail lights. Hard to say with that photo but I suspect it is pre-TC. But the rear bumper is strange and may be from a later car.

fintail · December 2003

I think that is right...prewar MG....fenders seem taller and all, car looks older. And that bumper certainly is weird.

I saw a 66 Olds Starfire 2 door hardtop today....pretty decent, dark red....driving on the highway at 70mph at dusk in the rain with no lights on.

stickguy · December 2003

a very original looking 1970-ish Duster, in red. Reminded me of my high school, a yellow one.

andys120 · December 2003

the pioneer AWD wagon (along w Subaru and Audi) It was after dark so I couldn't get a good look but it seemed to be clean and straight.

lancerfixer · December 2003

I just checked...my Ohio-built Accord's VIN starts with 1. Interestingly, too, my Volvo's VIN starts with Y, even though it was built in the factory in Belgium. Kind of an odd inconsistency, when you think about it. Shifty, who decides what VIN starts with what character?

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Andy you are too generous putting the Eagle in with the Audi and Subaru. The Eagle is basically just a car plopped onto a truck 4X4, so nothing new there. And performance was dismal. If it was a pioneer, the wagon train never made it West.

andys120 · December 2003

in comparing the Eagle to the other two pioneers.

Lancer, I'm not sure what the story is on your Volvo. I know some are assembled in Belgium (or Holland, didn't Volvo take over DAF), Perhaps your particular car was in fact Swedish-made or maybe they just sent trainloads of Swedish made assemblies and complete the cars in Belgium.

I'm evidently mistaken about the difference between cars with ones and those w fours in front. Anybody know?

PF_Flyer · December 2003

Not sure of the year of the car, but came out of the mall to find a Volvo 1800ES parked in the spot next to me. It sure got my 11 year old's attention!

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

mark156 · December 2003

Lemko, way way back you asked me a question about the '58 Eldorado that is in my car club. I've been away from this thread for a little while (actually forgot that I posted here; old age is kicking in already! LOL)

Anyway, you asked if the '58 Eldorado had the built in drink tumblers... I don't remember but if I see it again I'll take a look and let you know.

Andre1969, you also mentioned how did the memory seat work on a '58 Cadillac that is not in the computer age.... I was wondering the exact same thing but I didn't see if anyone addressed it.

If I missed it, would someone like to enlighten my on that? Thanks

Mark156

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

That memory seat probably worked with relays and a mechanical track that triggered a micro-switch when the seat hit a certain position.

It must have been very complex because whenever I searched for it mostly I came up with things like "I love my '58 Cadillac...the only thing that doesn't work is the memory seat". Musta seen that ten times. Some guy was offering a NOS memory seat mechanism for a mere $1,800.

I guess you could order the "Memo-matic" on Pontiacs, too.

ny540i6 · December 2003

a Merkur XR4TI and a Sterling 875? this weekend. Talk about niche marketing! Except the niche never appeared.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

More like abyss marketing, as in "went into the".

ateixeira · December 2003

Andy: I will respectfully chime in and say while the Eagle was pretty early, Subaru beat AMC to it by several years. In 1972 they had a raised 4WD wagon on their car platform, the wagon shown here:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid18/p550149db2064a63bb2e5- f94257860a9a/fdcfb3b4.jpg

So that was the world's first Sport Utility Wagon. AMC came next (late 70s), then Audi I think in the early 80s.

Subaru then popularized the idea for 1995 with the Outback. Ironically, they stole their own title, calling that car the first, while their own GL wagon preceeded the Outback by, oh, 23 years! :-)

-juice

muffin_man · December 2003

Today, in Brentwood, going south on Barrington, I saw my very first Ferrari Enzo.

andys120 · December 2003

He let me take it for a short ride once. By 1983 rust had eaten the thing up pretty badly and it was nothing special to drive. Juice, you're undoubtedly right about Subaru being first.

I'll bet there are more AWD Eagle wagons left.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Audi Quattro system was light years ahead, though, of early Subies and Eagles. Old tech vs. new tech. Manual 4X4 vs. AWD, and Audi's level of refinement was...well...incomparable to Subie and Eagle, the latter being good enough to be sure but very rough and nasty cars to drive.

Everyone went the Audi route, that's what you see today, in various forms and configurations.

True Pioneer for AWD was the Jensen FF1.

mark156 · December 2003

Hey Mr. Shift..... if you are not the host, why don't you take the "HOST" off of your name?

Mark

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Software config makes it nearly impossible, sorry.

pf_flyer is your able host here and can take care of any problems you may have. He's kind enough to let me visit and talk with you!

ateixeira · December 2003

Really? I haven't seen an Eagle in a decade. They salt the roads around here, so those gave way to rust as well.

Subaru only really got into double galvanized steel around 1990, so before that rust was an issue.

I agree shifty, Subaru had fairly primitive manual 4WD, locking center diffy and even a low range. Audi popularized AWD. Bless them for that!

-juice

fintail · December 2003

I saw an old car at an odd side angle from a bigdistance today...it was in nice shape...I thought it was a lowline fintail and was pretty excited to get up to where it was in traffic. It was about a 61 Studebaker Lark, light grey, really clean.

ateixeira · December 2003

One of the Subaru Crew regulars is a big Lark fan, he has a Lark 6 and even writes a newsletter for a club. Pretty neat.

-juice

jrosasmc · December 2003

This afternoon while driving into Newark Airport to pick up a relative we were driving behind a Maserati 430 sedan. It seems to be a relatively rare car as I do not recall seeing one in recent years- it was most likely a derivative of the horrible Biturbo sold in the U.S. during the '80s.

Happy Holidays.

fintail · December 2003

Yep, that came after the Biturbo, around 1988-9 maybe. I always thought it looked like a slightly larger Sentra

fintail · December 2003

The speedometer, the tailights, the transmission buttons, the wood-looking surfaces, the price...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2449752279&category=6472

Another one for Shifty
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2449893851&category=6472

When I was little my aunt won one of these in a shopping mall contest. I remember I went for a ride in it once. I vaguely rememeber it...as being slow. She sold it soon afterwards, as it was very impractical for her. Probably a wise move.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2449636004&category=6472

You barely see these anymore...too bad about the fender bender. Seems a shame to let it go to ruin over that. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2449950935&category=6388

I bet there's not a dozen of these left on the road. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2449933966&category=6216

Someone cut a fintail down into a painful looking pickup. The serial number does suggest a 1960, but the steering wheel is off a later car, and it appears to have 300SE door panels and AC trim. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2449911422&category=6329

lancerfixer · December 2003

Heck, there was an Edsel convention here over the summer. I didn't know that many had been built, let alone survived. There were tons of 'em.

fintail · December 2003

Tons of Edsels or '60 Edsels? I've only seen one 60 Edsel in the flesh, and it was a plain old 4 door post. I don't think the 1960 is a bad design. The rear is a little busy, but it's pretty clean, as it is just a slightly retrimmed 60 Ford, which was a decent looking design. One of the old orphans that my dad rescued when I was growing up was a low mileage but neglected '60 Country Sedan. He really liked that car, and I can say it was pretty cool...so maybe I am biased. With a little elbow grease it ended up being pretty sharp.

I notice that wagon in question is a 6 with a 3 on the tree. That wouldn't be fun.

lancerfixer · December 2003

There were quite a few '60 Edsels, actually, though there were a lot more '58 and '59s.

ateixeira · December 2003

Check out that bathroom scale of a grille in that first pic.

-juice

andys120 · December 2003

The Edsel didn't sell in large enough numbers to
be worthwhile for FoMoCo to maintain it as a brand
but in the smaller automotive world of the late 1950s Big

Three models were generally produced ion large numbers so there were quite a few Edsels made, though certain models weren't all that common.

I suspect that 60 wagon is rare but not unique.

fintail · December 2003

I had to look it up....total 1960 Edsel production among all models was 2846 units, the most common being the plain 4 door post at 1126 units. The rarest is the deluxe 4 door hardtop at 31 units, although several other models had production at around 200 units or less. 6 passenger wagon production was 216 units. That's pretty rare.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Yikes, what a bunch of dead iron. I wouldn't give you $1000 for all of them (actually I would and resell them to some dreamer

The DAF had, I believe, a constant velocity rubber band trasmission (CVT) which I'm sure could be easily serviced at jiffy-lube.

The Mercedes is (sigh) ruined, so congrats to the barbarian who did that...

The Edsels are...well....Edsels...however, some models can fetch a very good price if you can find that narrow niche of buyers who will pay a fair price. A Bermuda wagon in top shape would sell well I think.

Th Peugeot 504 is a beater and isn't worth anything to anyone...good cars, though. I've had a few and liked them. $700 is all the money on that baby.

fintail · December 2003

I thought you'd like that DKW

If I had a burgundy 504 door just laying around (ha), I'd want that one.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

504s were pretty tough, with a torquey 4 cylinder engine. 504 diesels even better. Best Peugeot ever imported into the USA I think. Smartest thing to do if you want one is to buy two and have a parts car close at hand, especially for trim pieces.

jrosasmc · December 2003

In your opinion, what do you think was the best Maserati ever imported into America? (And it certainly wasn't the Biturbo)

Happy Holidays to you, our host.

jrosasmc · December 2003

Oh yeah, while we're still on the subject, just for the heck of it, how about the best Volvo imported to U.S. shores?

My selection: the 850/70 series...

grbeck · December 2003

It's fairly easy to turn a 1960 Ford into an Edsel, if you're so inclined. That may account for the large number of 1960 Edsels around today, in relation to their production.

lancerfixer · December 2003

I'm gonna throw some money on Shifty's response to the Volvo question as the 122. Personally, while I know it wasn't the best Volvo ever (in terms of reliability or even fun to drive) by any stretch, my personal favorite is the 960/S90.

andre1969 · December 2003

often the final year model will have the most examples still around today. Years ago, I was a member of the National DeSoto club, and when they printed their annual roster issue, the 1961 DeSoto, of which only something like 3034 were built, actually had the highest percentage of listed cars to amount built. I think something like 45-50 were listed in the roster.

In the '57-59 run, '57 was by far the best year for DeSoto, with about 117,500 built. That slipped to about 49,000 for '58 and under 46,000 for '59. I don't remember exact numbers, but in our roster, there were more '59's listed than '57's! I'm not sure, but I think by '59, Chrysler may have been rustproofing their cars a bit better by '57-58. As for how these cars were represented in the club, well, I think there were around 120 '57's, 40 '58's, and 140 '59's. I think the most popular DeSoto in the club was '56, with over 200 listed. That was a good year in all aspects...good quality, good looking, good performance, and fairly high sales, about 110K units or so.

I would guess though, that with Edsel, the '58 would be the most in-demand. For better or for worse, it was much more "special" that year, having a much broader model range, more upscale models, and more powerful engines. CR tested a 1958 Edsel, like a Corsair or Citation, and they said that it was the fastest car in 0-60 that they had ever tested, up to that point.

In contrast, a '59 Edsel is little more than a tarted up Ford, and ditto the '60. Ironically though, for 1961 it was the big Mercury cars that were phased out...the '61 Mercs were really just nice looking Edsels, in size, power, and price.

Oh yeah, I saw kind of a weird looking Volvo the other day. Not weird in a bad way, but just something that I don't see every day. It was a small one, like an S40 or S60, but it was a coupe!

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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