'99 Silverado/Sierra vs. F-150

smcpherr · November 1999

epoe,

True, heat can weaken the metal. But bolting requires drilling which creates microfractures around the hole, which can lead to failure. Most bolted metal structures I have encountered have a flat metal plate welded to one of the components, so there would be little advantage to bolting, would just create another reason for failure. Again, I am no expert on the subject, so I may still be wrong.

2sly,

I too am on my second late-model F-150. Wanna know why? I leased the first, and the lease was up this summer. I really wanted to keep it, but I also wanted 4wd, so I got the exact same truck, with 4wd. I was happy with the first, I am happy with this one. Is that a good reason to be on my second Ford? Also, scientific magazines within the automotive field do exist, and just like most truely scientific journals, you can't buy them at a magazine stand. I forget the names now, but I know they are out there. I haven't seen one devoted to trucks though. And I thought you did buy Fords for the last ?? years. Did they all suck, or was this just a "I got a lemon so now all will feel my wrath" thing?

Brutus · November 1999

It's ridiculous to say (or imply) that Ford's are poor tow vehicles. Obviously, you've never done any serious towing. I can assure you that my wimpy OHC has no problem cruising through mountain passes in Alaska with my heavy slide-in camper. It certainly isn't gutless in any part of the powerband, especially not in the 40-70 mph range when I need to pass quickly into oncoming traffic lanes on windy one way roads. I'm sure the 454 would do fine as well (and you will certainly argue, better), but to say that my Ford lacks power loaded to the max is just plain wrong.

Put the 5.4 in the F-150 with a 3.73 axle ratio for towing, and you're going to have power to spare. Run it against the 5.3 in the Silverado with the 3.73 towing an equally heavy trailer and there aren't you're not going to see the Chevy running away from the Ford on extended tow runs through mountainous terrain. It just ain't going to happen.

And don't start comparing the 6.0L to the 5.4L, because the 6.0 is a bigger, higher rated engine. I'm sure you'll bring up the test of the 6.0L vs the V-10 that you read in a magazine (that you say you don't read), but we've already had that discussion. Take a 3/4 ton Silverado and strap on the heaviest 5th wheel it is rated to carry. Strap on the exact same size 5th wheel to a similiarly equipped F-250 Superduty with the V-10 and the same axle ratios and run a few thousand miles together through the Rockies. You'll notice the torque advantage.

It's also ridiculous to say that the current line of Ford trucks is crap. They are bigger, stronger, and faster with higher tow ratings, GVWRs, GCWRs and better mpg than the models they replace. The engines are more efficient and will last longer because of the better technology. There is nothing inferior about the new trucks compared to the previous lines of Ford trucks unless its a personal preference for the appearance.

seacrow · November 1999

I am trying to be fair about this and note the good points of the new chevies and you continue to be abrasive about this. I towed the 71 GMC I have with my new Ford 4.6 supercab on an auto transport for 600 miles. Total weight was 6500 pounds plus the normal 1000 pounds of crap I keep in the bed of my truck. I had no problems towing it, I wasn't even fatigued by the trip. I suspect a chevy would do just as well but do it differently. Torque is a big factor in towing and I do not want to rev an engine that high to get it like you do in a chevy. OHC has been proven in Japanese trucks for decades, OHC engines run virtually forever and produce torque lower in the rpm range. Going up steep hills towing in my truck requires only a gentle push on the accelerator, not a downshift to get in the powerband since my torque comes on at around 2500 rpms.

GM is headed for a government bailout in the near future due to so many clone models and poor quality (check the Consumer Reports used cars to avoid list sometime, it seems like a reasonable list)

I like GM trucks but I like Ford trucks better I have had Rangers and F-150s and they have all been good.

So there!

bigsnag · November 1999

A few posts back 2sly admitted that Fords had more power/torque yet he claimed that this aspect had very little (1/10th of a percent) value when choosing a new truck. Now he says Ford engines are anemic? What does that make Chevy, less than anemic? I guess when he capitalized "Scientific Journals" he thought that would make them sound important. "Scientific" in this case is just an adjective modifying the noun, "journals". Unless there is a publication "Scientific Journals", capitalization is not needed. Why do I even read his posts. I thought he was being a little more reasonable lately. I guess he got cut off a few days back or something. Geez.

epoe · November 1999

How can auto manufacturers need government bailouts? They get them under a different name, municipal/state/federal fleet.. My neighbor drives a goverment car -- chevy monte carlo. If they had to buy their own car (which the use to and from work) they be driving an Accord like me, thus -- govt subsidised buyout! (don't get me started/man

bigsnag · November 1999

I guess you don't read the Dallas Morning News. They had an article about complaints/problems and lemons. Tied for 5th highest in complaint- to-sales ratio were the Chevrolet Blazer, Chevrolet C/K 1500 pickup and the GMC Sierra 1500 pickup. The Ford Explorer and Ford F-150 pickup tied for the fifth-lowest complaint- to-sales ratio. The F-150 was the lowest among trucks. All others ahead of it were cars. This report is of cars and trucks sold in 1998. I'll send anyone a copy of the article just email me Bigsnag@yahoo.com
It was published on the 9th of November page 1A. But I guess since this is not Scientific Journals then you probably doesn't read it because it is SO biased. The Dallas Morning News is probably more like a comic book, huh? Just for laughs.

bigsnag · November 1999

The DMN article was just a report of a list published by the Texas Department of Transportation. I guess they don't know anything about cars or trucks either. Besides, it had nothing to do with what they know about what it takes to repair a car; it was a report of the most problematic cars under the Texas Lemon Law. It doesn't matter whether they know how to change their oil or not. All they do is listen and document people's complaints.

FACT: Chevy had way more reported problems than Ford!!!

TSB's are bulletins sent out to dealers based upon customer complaints. Basically, they are to let the mechanics know what people will come in complaining about and to let them know they should fix it, if it is reproducible. As for recalls, issuance is still based upon, to some degree, the manufacturer claiming responsibility for and willingness to correct problems. Neither of these has any bearing on how many problems occur. It only reflects the company's willingness to help a consumer who purchased a car that was defective. Chevy has a long track record of not owning up to mistakes. Do we need to mention side saddle gas tanks? It took many DEATHS and lawsuits before they actually did anything. At least Ford will help a guy out and fix minor problems.

smcpherr · November 1999

Wow, is this topic dissolving into a kindergarden playground quickly or what? Whats buggin' you 2sly? Everyone here (with the exception of you) pretty much admits that both Ford and Chevy make very good trucks. They are different, but heck, they are supposed to be different. I don't want to drive the same truck everyone else does, I want a truck I like. The only factor that makes one truck superior over the other is the personal preference of the one who is going to buy it. I prefer Ford. You prefer, well, you prefer to insult people who think differently than you. This site isn't about that, though, so if you want to insult someone, go do it somewhere else. Competitiveness can be a good thing, just keep it under control.

cdean · November 1999

not a weld expert, but i am an mech. engineer.
welded vs non welded frames

welds are stronger, but the heat caused by welding causes transformation of the steel just outside of the weld. commonly called the "heat-affected" zone. this zone is heated and cooled very quickly creating "martensitic steel", a very stiff and brittle condition. can be cured by heat treatments, but usually isn't because after you weld it, its too big/complex/developed to stick in an autoclave. drilling holes in a frame does not cause microcracks, or weaken it, other than the fact it removed material.

hydroforming, there is no welding, so there is no need to stamp out the material in a forging die. hydorforming uses ~30%(?) less raw material than forged frames because the process is more efficient. no welding also takes out alot of production time. In the end: cheaper production costs becuase it was done in a fraction of the time, and with less raw material. Stronger because there are no heat affected zones ,and there is continous material.

The frame rails on my truck are straight. I don't know where any corners would be that seacrow mentioned.

the fact about the crack stopping at the weld was correct, but had NOTHING to do with the strength of the weld. the weld was an interruption in the rupturing material. it was a physical block. just like if you tape the ends of 2 pieces of paper end to end, with single piece of tape running the length of the touching edges: tear one page toward the tape and slowly rip it all the way, you will be able to tear it up to the piece of tape. you cannot tear pass the tape. BUT, do it again, and instead of tearing it, just pull the papers in opposite directions, the tape turns loose long before the paper tears.

smcpherr · November 1999

Cdean-

I stand corrected. Thanks for the help.

SM

Brutus · November 1999

Had to dig pretty far back to the 70s to come up with the Pinto as an example.

I wonder if the fewer TSBs and recalls by Chevy compared to Ford are directly related to the significantly higher level of complaints by Chevy owners compared to Ford owners. Problem occurs, issue a TSB or recall.....or don't and get your customers complaining. The Dallas Morning News was the second source quoted in this forum that indicated Ford had higher customer satisfaction. In the J.D. Power & Associates Quality Study report, the Ford F-Series ranked #1, the Dodge Ram ranked #2 and the Superduty ranked #3. They only listed the top three. Although we can all find studies to support our views, I haven't heard a counter with anything recent concerning quality, customer satisfaction etc. in support of Chevy. You can only go on quoting 10 year studies for so long. How about a quality and/or consumer satisfaction survey in support of Chevy that covers the period since Ford introduced their new "wimpy" redesigned F-150 line in 1997? I'm sure the reports are out there. Dig a little.

I challenge 2sly to provide a list of the top 20 bass fishermen in the US and the truck they drive.

If you tow a 7,000 pound bass boat with a 5.3L Chevy Silverado 1/2 ton extended cab with a 3.73 axle ratio and auto transmission and you put the same size bass boat behind a 5.4L F-150 extended cab with a 3.73 axle ratio and auto transmission, you're not going to see any dramatic differences.

As far as IQ, mine is somewhere over 300. Then again, in addition to being a Ford owner, I'm also Polish, so we use a different scale.

And as I've said before, my handle is Brutus, not Bubba.....

Brutus · November 1999

I also forgot to mention that I lived in Dallas for all of 1998. So let's see, I'm a Ford owner, Polish, mid 30s, single, spent time in Texas......I can only imagine 2sly's opinion of me.

z71bill · November 1999

I am a chevy owner and I agree that 2sly4u is a jerk. I looked at the Ford before buying the Sivlerado - no question the F-150 is a solid truck. The Chevy (in my opinion) rides & handles better and seemed to have more zip when you step on the gas. I also like the extra room in the cab and better MPG rating (so far I am getting 15.8 mpg with an average speed of 25mph) Not bad for a full size 4x4. I love the auto trac - it is great when the roads are wet. I live in Houston so it is hotter than hell and the A/C in the Chevy cools off quicker that the fords I drove.

leathal02 · November 1999

with Bill about 2sly4u, but i think that the people who are responding to him are joining him in his childly games.

This whole topic cracks me up.
and i agree with brutus about comparing the bass bout of similiar origin, with the two truck(silverado, F-150) that there would be little difference.

BTW i drive a '99 silverado Z-71

I dont agree that ford builds better "packages" or whatever

They are both very good trucks, they are neck and neck in comparison. I chose my chevy because the gas mileage, the back seat, but most of all because i have been chevy all my life and in my opinion chevy looks the best.

Im not knocking the F-150, but thats my opinion.

They are both damn good trucks

Bill is that 25mph on the loop(610 during rush hour or just anyways??)
I am in brenham, just down the road from you

seacrow · November 1999

It is nice to hear from you guys. I agree with both of you. I would buy a chevy truck and probably be happy with it. I like them very much and the new engines sound great. I also like the back seat, I really like the dashboard design, and I like the trans temp gage that is available on some models (correct me if I am wrong). There are pros and cons to both. I do think, however, that Ford offers more overall combinations/packages than Chevy does. I bought the Ford cause it felt better to me and the Chevies I drove were the very first 99's. I have also had Ford trucks for about 12 years now including Rangers and two current generation F-150s. They have all provided great trouble-free service so I had no reason to venture away. Actually the Rangers were some of the best overall vehicles I had ever driven, very impressive and even better than the first F-150 (98) I had.

It is nice to hear from you guys. I am new to the board and was worried that 2bla bla 4 whatever was the cream of the crop, apparently not.

I guess in general, I like trucks (the Tundra does not count) and I like debate.

I still think OHC engines are the better way to go but I do not think that Chevy's new engines suck. I also hate most of GM's vehicles overall with all of the cloning and stuff, but the trucks are one of their better ideas in a while.

lvstang · November 1999

Turned in my leased F150 recently. That truck was nearly flawless. I've looked at all makes and models(big and small) to replace it. Even considered the Tundra for a bit. Just curious what you don't like about it. I will admit if it was a true full size with a higher tow rating it might have been my first choice. The problem was with the boat and all gear and occupants I'd be at its max tow rating (7200lbs) all the time in the Vegas heat. That's why I'm just about ready to order a Super Duty.
See ya

smcpherr · November 1999

I found that reference to the three piece frame of the Silverado again, here in Edmunds road tests of the 99 Silverado.

"The new three-section frame is engineered for maximum performance, allowing improvements in components that attach to it as well as exterior fit-and finish. The hydroformed front section is exceptionally rigid, eschewing rivets for welds to provide strong joints. The end result is tighter fitting front sheetmetal and a less-stressed frame. Hydroforming, a process that uses high-pressure fluid to mold steel into shape, also results in a lighter structure because fewer welds and pieces of steel are necessary to attain the requisite strength."

I'll have to dig a bit more, but I am assuming this three-piece frame consists of front, middle and rear sections. I may be interpreting it wrong, but I would guess that the three sections are hydroformed, then welded together. Question: if one section is damaged past the point of repair, say the rear section in a rear end accident, and the other two sections are fine, do they (Chevy) replace the damaged section or scrap the whole frame?

jaijay · November 1999

smcpherr-

The rear section of the truck is 'C' stamped steel. Chevy uses hydroformed cross members and close out plates to join the two rear sections.

The middle section is made of roll-form high strength steel lipped into a "C" section and then shaped into the mid frame.

The front section is all hydroformed. I hope this helps. I found this at the Chevrolet web site.

smcpherr · November 1999

Jaijay, thanks, that does help clear it up a bit. I still wonder what Chevy does with a badly damaged hydroformed section, such as the front. The main reason I ask is it would appear (and I am assuming) that another advantage of the hydroformed frame is the "crumple zone" location. For some reason I have it stuck in my head that the hydroformed sections are designed to deform readily in an accident, decreasing the amount of energy transferred to the passengers in an accident. If this is so, then I would imagine that Chevy would have a higher percentage of frames damaged past the point of repair than other vehicles experiencing the same environment. I am just curious whether or not having a hydroformed section allows Chevy to replace just the damaged section or if they have to scrap the frame. The only completely hydroformed section is the front end, so my revised question is... In a front end accident in which the front section (and the front section only) is damaged in a way which would prohibit repair, is Chevy able to separate the front section from the rest of the frame and replace only that section. I know this is a pretty picky question, but I am curious. If they can replace a damaged front section, then I would have to say that the Chevy engineers did a good job designing the frame. If not, I would say that the new hydroformed frame may be nice, until it gets bent. Most frames get bent eventually, if Chevy's are designed to bend more in an accident it leads me to believe that they would bend more in everyday travel. If sections can't be replaced individually, then the new frame could cost Chevy and/or their owners more money down the road. This may be a dumb question, but I am just trying to satisfy my curiosity.

Brutus · November 1999

Yeah, I think we all stooped, at least a little, when we were confronted with personal attacks and ridiculous claims. Ignoring him is the way to go. Then we just have to scroll past his occasional posts to get something substantive.

Initially, the Tundra was going to be called the T-150, but I think there were some grumblings about a potential lawsuit from a competitor. Either that or they were concerned about being labeled a copy cat. A few topics up (Look out Ford, Dodge, Chevy, here comes the T-150), someone posted his opinions of a recent auto show where he got to scope out some of the recent offerings from the Ford, Dodge, Chevy and Toyota.

ujimenez · November 1999

Gotta love all that info. How about performance though, FORD is the leader hands down,(LIGHTNING) not to mention style. Those Zleepers shall follow me, exactly, smell my exhaust.
Are they ever going to change the body style? People who worry about repair costs, tire costs should be riding a bicycle, or a car that they can afford to do repairs and replacments on. Oh yes Z the last letter in the alpha.

dberry · November 1999

It's very interesting to know that the three sections are welded. Clearly the intention is to sacrifice the front & rear pieces to spare the rest of the truck.

I suspected the use of high strength steel. The use of this product has certain advantages and disadvantages. It's lightweight (costs less) because less material is required.

The frame can be very flexible if not enough corner bracing is used (flexing is bad for slide-ins campers and caps). This is not an indication that the frame is weak but just not braced well enough. So far, I have only heard the frame is a lot stiffer than previous models.

There is two dangers though, High strength steel requires more carbon. More carbon means the steel can be more brittle and therefore can yield in the form of cracking or bending (more than just flexing) once the strength threshold is exceeded.

The flexing is good in an accident, it absorbes the impact energy. As long as the strength threshhold is not exceed, the frame should return to the original shape.

Knowing the above, any bent high strength probably would best be recycled. Same thing for the F-150 frame which is all high strength steel. Too much impact force could bend the entire frame.

GM is betting that the mid section is stiff enought to survive, meaning only replacing the damaged end sections. Time will tell.

z71bill · November 1999

610 traffic is a pain. But 59 north is almost as bad, without this Houston traffic I would be averaging 45 MPH instead of 25 mph. Well at least I am comfortable in my Silverado LT Z-71.

Rocles · November 1999

lvstang,
Sorry for this sidebar but do you live in Vegas? I was just there earlier in October and stayed at Bally's. What a cool town!! I was expecting a more glamourous AC but boy I was wrong!

How long has chevy used this technology for frames? Is it new to the trucks they build or have others done this??

lvstang · November 1999

Hey Roc, I've lived here for 4 1/2 years now. Originally from So. CAl. so not that far of a move. Trying to tie this into a truck topic Vegas is almost perfect as far as recreation. 4 wheelin in the desert out of my back yard which to me was pre-running my F-150. The forest is less than an hour away and Lake Mead is my personal favorite place on earth. Even if somebody's not mechanically inclined Hoover Dam will impress anyone. Roc, with your construction background you'd be really impressed in how they built that thing. What's really cool about Vegas is once you're 10 minutes from downtown or the strip it's just like anywhere U.S.A.
Back to my F150, it towed a 5000lbs. boat with no problem in the 120+ degree heat. What I thought at the time was most impressive was that after recovering the boat we would wipe the boat down, dump all the trash, use restrooms etc. all the time with the truck idling with the air on and the temp gauge never went above half.
Hey Roc, what did you mean by "more glamorous AC"? I know I got carried away with my post but this place(Vegas) rules!

lvstang · November 1999

My boat has a supercharged 502 Chevy so I'm not as biased as somebody once thought.

Rocles · November 1999

lvstang,
AC=Atlantic City. I thought Vegas was a wild town. I don't know if I could live there for the long haul but a great place to visit.

seacrow · November 1999

What kind of boat do you have? I live in Sarasota, Fl. home of Wellcraft, Chris Craft, Donzi and a handful of smaller companies. My best friend for 20+years works for Genmar Inc., the mother company to Wellcraft, Ranger bass boats, Pro Line, etc. I will be looking at Scarabs next year, possibly a 22' with a 350 V-8 (I am not biased either). I have always loved boating in the Gulf of Mexico. I may be able to get a program boat through my friend at a very reasonable price. They are usually loaded too.

I have towed many boats, mostly with my 98 F-150 I had and never had any problems. To stay on topic, the ratio of Ford to chevy trucks present at local boat ramps is about 3-to-1. As a matter of fact Ford dominates this area. the roads are filled with F-150s, Explorers (I also have one of these), Expeditions, and Navigators. My hometown of Carrollton, Ga. is the opposite with chevies leading the way. I guess local demographics play a huge role in truck sales. Those folks in Ga. will buy chevy just because they had a chevy something or other in 1937 and never bothered looking at anything else, very old-fashioned.

lvstang · November 1999

Whenever I read HOT BOAT they seem to split boats into east coast and west coast. Your side of the town is more favored to ocean boating from what I've read. Even though Lake Mead can have some nasty swells. Those boats you mentioned I've always read are very smooth and safe in rougher water. How is my understanding on this?
My boats hull was laid up by Howard Custom Boats in Valencia Ca. The mold was bought from Warlock boats. It's almost 23' long with what they call a Mod VP Tunnel Hull. I had the deck cut out and made into an open bow. when it was done in early '95 it was believed to be one of the few if only 100 mph open bow boats in existence. I "try" not to exceed 80 with passengers in the bow. Actually with much weight in the front because of the air entrapment hull it slows the boat anyway. The motor is the S/C 502 which I actually had some trouble with burning the #2 exhaust valve due to a lean condition(twice) I pulled the S/C off this last summer and I think I found what was causing the problem. I might throw the S/c back on next spring.
Will most likely order my F350 CC 4x4 S/B this winter to get it by spring. Even though I never have a shortage of friends with tow vehicles when it comes time to go to the lake.
Take it easy all.

mzn · November 1999

Just in case you're wondering why there is a skip in topic numbers, several posts above were scribbled as off-topic and in violation of the requirement to be civil and respectful at all times. Let's talk trucks now.

carlady/roving host

Rocles · November 1999

lvstang,

I follow and agree with you.

mzn,

I thank you.

Roc

jaijay · November 1999

I often enter this topic looking for good and bad points of both the Chevy and the Ford. I have driven both and think each of them have their merits. It is always good to hear how one owner enjoys their truck or another has a problem with theirs regardless of the brand. However for some time now this topic has become one of banter and accusations. It somewhat makes the topic as not a place for information but as an area for a bar room brawl.

Lets face it both trucks are the cutting edge of what America has to offer. The only winner is the consumer. Each manufacturer took the latest technology available to them and assembled it into the truck that we have today. And looking at the information here, many of the Ford and Chevy owners put a sincere effort to convey their experiences whether they are good or bad with these new trucks.

When searching for a truck, many consumers will hit this topic and research these trucks. I know I did. I was fortunate to make my decision before things got out of hand.

From what I am reading from the recent posts it appears that many of us would like to see the topic return to one of information instead of name calling. Maybe we should create a new topic designed just for brand bashing and name calling. All of those users here that generate posts such as those can hang out there.

bonnie_rick · November 1999

topics dedicated to bashing of brands or people...Thank you for your understanding!

Bonnie Rick
Town Hall Community Manager, Edmunds.com

bigsnag · November 1999

I'm fairly sure that jaijay was merely demonstrating absurdity by being absurd. I think it's called being facetious.

jaijay · November 1999

I appologize if it seemed that way. However I would like to see this topic and many of the others like it be a gateway to information and camaraderie as they were intended for. It is helpful that the users of these forums use them to convey their opinions and relay past and present experiences with various automoitive products. By utilizing the knowledge of these individuals can all of us benefit.

This people and brand bashing isn't helping anyone.

smcpherr · November 1999

Has anyone taken these trucks offroad? Really offroad, not just gravel roads. I wanna know how these large trucks are going to handle offroad, both the Chevy and the Ford. (I have a friend with a Silverado who wants to go with me) It's not like I am going to be testing my limitations or anything, but I would like to hear some stories. And yes, I have done it before, just not with a new truck. Then I didn't really care if my truck bounced off a tree or two.

leathal02 · November 1999

Z-71, and have taken it to our deer lease.

I have to say, that on the highway or in town, this damn truck will find EVERY single whole or bump or whatever you call it, but when it gets "offroad" its like a caddy

even though it is rough on the highway, it is a truck, thats what trucks do and are, ROUGH, but a pleasant rough, lol

bigsnag · November 1999

I have, historically, always felt that the Chevy did have a more sporty suspension, if you can say that about a truck. They did drive a little better and you got more road feel, compared to Fords more rolling, swaying, twin I beam. However with that feel you had to give up a little comfort. Now, in my experience, it seems that both trucks ride very similar, with good road feel, but the Chevy still has a little more kick coming from the rear, when you go over bumps. What does everyone else think? No flames please.

leathal02 · November 1999

why the chevys have more kick in the rear is possibly because they are a bit lighter then the fords and dodges, and because of the 46MM shocks, that doesnt help in that area much

Rocles · November 1999

where's 583?

rrichf · November 1999

tweverts,
I'm not sure what you're trying to stir up with your recall post. The speed control thing on the Explorer is old news. My son brought his in to the dealer, they gave him a Taurus to drive over night and returned his Explorer the next day, fixed.

I would be very interested in legitimate, documented problems that aren't being addresses through TSBs or recalls.

Rich

rrichf · November 1999

Rocles,
583 was probably mine. It seems that Edmunds objected to me using the first letter and a series of nonsensical punctuation to "disguise" some words considered offensive. (A stronger version of "heck" and a word that means to complain but commonly refers to a gender of canines.) This one will probably get pulled too. Oh, well, such is life in an open boat!

Rich

redhatman · November 1999

that GM trucks have had fewer recalls and tsb's than both Ford and Dodge for the last ten years?

tweverts · November 1999

Rich,
You stated "I'm not sure what you're trying to stir up with your recall post."
My short answer to you is I have no intent to stir up anything.

I was hoping for some intelligent discussion and thoughts on the subject of recalls as per the subject of both the topic and my post. If that is above you, then your comeback will surely be a another larger flame.

Just thought I'd share some factual information with others who may visit this topic to see, compare, and do their own analysis on. I started gathering the info months back to while researching a new truck purchase. I have since followed up with the NTSB site for updates and to keep informed.

The recall information is just one small but important area of many that I looked at in purchasing a new truck. I also looked at TSB's, Prices, resale value, recommendations / experiences of others, actual test drives of the big 3 trucks, actual number of new trucks in the service depts's for repairs, etc. I also looked at quite a few topics on edmunds as well as other web sites. After finally determining the truck I would purchase then it took another week to find a dealer that would sell one at a fair price. I drove 70 miles for the purchase of a new Chevy Silverado.
I believe that all 3 make good vehicles. I also currently own a Ford (139,000 mi)and Jeep (121,000 mi) as well, so please no flames. I've also owned trucks in the past from all three.

Any discussion / thoughts about recalls and trends from post # 582 would be appreciated.
Tony

andy_jordan · November 1999

No arguments with your logic - but trust me, not many people are going to read a post that is 507 lines long.

powerisfun · November 1999

...number of recalls is a good indicator. Having fewer recalls can mean good quality, but it can also mean poor responsibility on issuing them. Maybe it means GM cares less about keeping it's customers happy than it does about keeping it's customers' money. Before the flames start, I own two GM vehicles and love them both.
-powerisfun

unixgod · November 1999

and recalls equal problems "no matter how severe". Recalls are generated by the customer so the manufacturer has no choice but to take care of a widespread problem.

GM having less of them than the other two domestics for the last 10 years only proves that GM trucks have had less problems.

Also, the same JD Power that rated the Dodge and Ford so good on initial quality, just recently rated the Silverado and Sierra the "most appealing trucks" of all three domestic trucks and the Toyota Tundra based on polls of 87,560 people.

Keep trying.

tweverts · November 1999

I agree that this is probably not as important as the type or severity of recalls. I'm not a lawer but the best I can determine by looking at recalls and "TITLE 49, UNITED STATES CODE,CHAPTER 301" is that all recalls are basically safety related. In short, if a defective product is determined by the NTSB, they can basically force the hand for the manufacturer to notify owners and eventually force them to identify some type of remedy (ie recall). I think the only thing a manufacturer has any flexibility here is a delay of the recall until a sufficient fix or number of parts can be reasonably obtained to handle the recall. Please let me know if I'm tracking on this.
Tony

Brutus · November 1999

J.D. Powers Apeal Study:

1999: (I haven't seen it yet)
1998: Dodge Ram
1997: Dodge Ram
1996: Dodge Ram

J.D. Powers Initial Quality:

1999: Ford F-Series
1998: Toyota T-100 (a fullsize?)
1997: Ford F-Series
1996: Chevy C/K

The higher number of recalls certainly doesn't appear to impact the consumers opinion of Initial Quality or Apeal.

If recalls equal problems equal complaints, I guess we can assume that Chevy will soon be issuing a recall to fix the squeak in the third door that many Chevy owners have been complaining about for years.

Rocles · November 1999

Not all recalls are safety related. My wife's car (Intrigue) had a recall because of the vent fan automatically coming on. This was noticed at the plant and wasn't consumer driven as well. BTW: It's a GM product and I think all companies expierence these types of recalls.

'99 Silverado/Sierra vs. F-150

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