Well, the salesman called back. He said he couldn't sell the car for $32,450 because he wasn't going to make a profit at that price. He wanted me to bump up my offer just $200 or $300 so that it would show his sales manager I was "willing to work with them." He also threw me a line about how the 2004's were not on the lot yet and that they usually sell their BMWs for sticker price. At this point, I feel I am really getting jerked around because I know all of that is bull. I feel good about standing firm and walking away from this one.
Paulac1...I would go to another dealer and won't even deal with the one that is jerking you around...Bmwseller...sre you saying that the more you make the better the service will be? When I bought my 325ci, th e dealer made a profit of $300 and my salesman was as happy as can be. In addition, I have bought parts for my car and he has used his name so I can get it cheaper. He even sent a thank you card and a birthday card.
Just ordered my 2004 325i with 5 speed trans, sport package, moonroof and aerodynamic m-kit in jet black for 28,250 dollars with destination charge included, sales tax excluded. Sales rep. said that he will be able to give me a vin # mid- october and production will on november to be delivered by on or after december 20. Do you think that this is a good deal, to late anyways because I have already paid for it, the waiting part is the only thing that sucks...
Well, the dealer called late yesterday afternoon and agreed to meet our price of $32,450 for the 2003 325i. My wife and I (she wrote the above posts ... I'm writing this one) were cautiously optimistic. We arrived at the dealer, filled out several forms, waited approximately 1 hour, and then sat down with our salesman. He promptly added a $299 doc fee to our previously agreed price of $32,450. I firmly, but politely refused to pay the doc fee. Keep in mind, that I was offering $950 over dealer cost (calculated as 3% over invoice minus the $1500 "rebate" for 2003s). The sales manager entered, told me that "The doc fee was not negotiable ... I make my salesmen pay this fee" ... incidentally, the part about "make my salesman pay this fee" sounded wierd, but at any rate, we stuck to our firm offer of $32,450. We politely shook hands and left the dealership.
I would have gladly paid a small doc fee, but I absolutely refuse to pay the $299 doc fee. As a point of refernce, our last auto was purchased new in 2000 (as an 01 model) ... we paid 3% over invoice ... including ALL fees. Previously, we paid a $49 doc fee when we purchased a new car in 1996 (as a 96 model).
Of course my wife and I are disappointed, but this is not the end of the world. I am very encouraged by bmnick's purchase ... add the StepTronic ($1200) to his car and that is what we would like to have. In fact, the reasons we chose this particular 3 revolved around the fact that it was not bloated with premium, cold weather, and other packages we neither need or desire.
Bmnick ... if you are out there, we would like the name and phone number of your dealer/salesman.
Finally, part of the problem we are fighting is dealer monopoly. We live in Knoxville TN and there is only a single BMW dealership in this area ... Grayson BMW. There are other dealerships in Nashville, Chattanooga, and Tri-Cities ... we will most likely work with them over the next few months to find the car we want at a fair dealer profit.
Paulac1, Great job sticking to your guns with the dealer and their insane doc fee, too bad you didn't get the car but they are just being greedy. When I negotiated for my 03 325i two weeks ago, I only offered $700 dealer profit because I knew they were going to tack on $300 doc fee. At $1000 over true cost, I still think your dealer would make a decent profit...give them a week to think about it (I bet they will call you back if they want to move the car...all depends on how popular that set of options is in their market) and if you don't hear anything in a week, and you haven't found a better deal (and you're sure that the car is a good fit for you, regarding options and color), then call them back and offer to split the difference - pay your offer plus $150 for doc fee. But of course, you may find a better deal somewhere else...in my limited experience, the dealers outside of the major metro areas are more willing to move old inventory.
great. we all bow to thy resolve. I've noticed doc fees creep up from the low 40s into the 2 and 300 range... and its just b.s.
one of the tricks i've been recomended and i've used and seen others use successfully is that when the manager or damager or whoever comes out to tell you its a non negotiable fee, you ask them to provide written documentation on exactly what this fee covers in services rendered including reasons for why it is not negotiable. It is not some fee mandated by law. Most of these dealerships don't have documentary proof for reasons to charge it. And just in case a dealer gets smart and manages to pull out a load of papers on it, tell them you will have your lawyer brother in law review it and if it all looks good, you'll come back. Most dealers lately have also gotten around to pre printing this fee on the sheets, so the only real way for them to cut that cost out is to further discount your negotiated price down by a logical amount. I am ready to pay doc fees in the middle 50s maybe even upto 100, because there's manpower involved in putting together your paperwork and forwarding your information for license and tag and title, etc. and manpower is not cheap, certainly not at dealerships, but i dont see any way in which the cost of these activities or services rendered could be about maybe 50-75 bucks.
Good advice. I've found asking for docs so my lawyer can look over the papers works. I actually do have a lawyer, and I've known her for 29 years or exactly as long as she's been my sister.
Again, folks, this is not the right discussion to get into a debate about the ethics of the automotive sales industry. Please join an active discussion on our Smart Shopper board to pursue those thoughts.
Convertibles are generally going to sell at MSRP. There is not a good availability on these. I can honestly say that I have never discounted a brand new convertible $1375 or anywhere near that. I'd say that the dealer is doing you a favor and I'd run with. What a great car. Congratulations!
we bought our 2004 convertible at the start of the 2004 production run at 1000 below msrp. i agree with bmwseller, its hard to get dealers to discount the convertibles much below msrp. 1375 is a great number. just make sure there are no hidden costs pre-printed on the deal sheets... read the last 10-12 posts about this.
October 325 sedan incentive is $2000. Xi is still $1500. There are quite a few 3's out there. We have a dozen of them here and we are not a very big dealer at all. Dealers are in an agressive mood when it comes to finding good homes for these supreme driving machines. There are demo models available out there that would save you some $$$$. Happy Motoring!
I have a newbie question. The MSRP on a 2003 325i is 27,800.00, but the invoice is 25,460.00 on Edmunds. Is the 25,460.00 accurate and the place I should begin adding option prices to get to the true invoice? Then do I subtract 1500 for the incentive and negotiate from there?
Depends on if the dealer is honest about the incentive. If they don't mention it, start at 2500 or so below invoice and mention the incentives and how high marks on customer satisfaction scores will equal cash in their pocket. Go from there. Many people say $500 is fair profit, others 1k, still some $1500. You have to decide that for yourself.
I am looking for a 2003 330i with step, cwp, and possibly moonroof. Getting hard to find with few options. If anyone has come across this combo in there searches please let me know. Willing to travel anywhere. Thanks
The current 25 mf is a really steep interest rate though. If one is gonna lease a 3 series, I'd wait for that to dip to at least 15. 7% is an awfully high percentage rate.
The dealer holdback that BMW dealers receive is based on their Customer Satisfaction scores. But, I wouldn't suggest using that as leverage to try and squeeze every last nickel out of the retailor. In fact, if you dust them on the survey they can take a "mulligan" on it. The dealer gets so many "mulligans" per month that drops a survey. I can probably envision a sales manager showing you the door when you're a few hundred over cost and threatening to rip them on a survey.
The dealer's invoice will be slightly different from what you quoted in your message. They add MACO fees and floor mats to the invoice that you see on Edmunds. Besides, not many dealers will want to sell a car for $500 profit.
Not all dealers have MACO charges. Usually just in metropolitan areas. Floor mats are optional. I'd recommend the rubber ones. They are cheaper and more durable.
Also, wife's car has both regular and rubber floor mats and because of my daughter, we only use the rubber ones (surprisingly not made in china), and intially i thought they would make the convertible look uncool, but we are happier with them, specially me 'cuz the weekly detailing job falls on me...
now was it the 7 series, there was no question of a rubber mat.....
Does anyone know when the new design 2005 325 will go on sale? I tried to get a deal on a 2003 325xi, but not enough around. If the new model change goes on sale this time next year, I would wait and maybe do an ED on the new model. However , I read somewhere that it would not come out until mid-year 2005 as a 2006. I really don't want to wait until 2005. Can "BMWseller" cast any light on this. Are they dealing on 2004 orders at all? Thanks.
Best deal is Euro delivery. Fly to Munich. It will be a blast! No doubt. And, what a cool experience. $2070 less for munich delivery. Now go get a deal on an airline ticket.
I am looking into buying a 2003 325i automatic trans. with a moonroof and xenon headlights. I just received a quote of $29,490 from a dealership in San francisco that includes power front seats and the floor mat. I believe the invoice price is $29,860 - Is this a good deal considering that there may be a $1,500-2000 incentive to the dealer.
Recently purchased 2004 325xi 5speed awaiting delivery.... MSRP Invoice Base 29550 27050 Premium 3100 2820 Metallic 475 430 Dest 695 895(maco,training fee) _____ _____ 33820 31195 paid appx 4% over invoice $1200 ttl $32395 included both carpeted and rubber mats.. I am thinking about addding BMW alarm,dealer wants $525 for system,would appreciate input if security system is sufficent that comes with car..or alarm system worth the extra cost live in city area?
these are all good offers. you probably can keep calling and visiting and e-mailing and faxing and get some guy to go a little lower in just about any purchase. I bet that you'll all agree in the end that your car was a great value/deal. Buy the cars guys and start driving sooner than later. People are paying a lot more than these #'s I'm hearing here.
Well after visiting a million dealerships, my brother-in-law settled on a BMW. Maual, 325i. Lucky for him the dealership from which I purchased had a 325i with sport, xenon, metallic paint. MSRP of 31070. Final negotiated price of $27,275. No maco or extra fees. Invoice on the car after rebate means the dealer still made a $500 profit, not including CSI scores. Everyone was happy.
Well except for me, but that's because I think he should have bought a TSX, not a bimmer.
The price your friend paid for bmw is the same price as a TSX. TSX is great value no doubt, and if you are saving $5,000 between the two, very rational to choose a TSX, but how do you justify a TSX when he got such a good deal for his bmw. Maybe the TSX I drove was not typical, but I loved the car except for braking and the acceleration from standing position. The brakes on the BMW are fantastic but the brakes on TSX need a design change.
The price your friend paid for bmw is the same price as a TSX. TSX is great value no doubt, and if you are saving $5,000 between the two, very rational to choose a TSX, but how do you justify a TSX when he got such a good deal for his bmw. Maybe the TSX I drove was not typical, but I loved the car except for braking and the acceleration from standing position. The brakes on the BMW are fantastic but the brakes on TSX need a design change.
I still believe 27k is too much, for my brother-in-law's 325i. But he's happy...so why question it? I had a friend who bought a Passat the other day after spending weeks looking with her. Still amazed someone would buy a VW.
The rest of your question is better answered in the TSX v. 325i forum.
What is a good price for a 2003 330XI right now. The invoice is $33,240. I would like step, premium, cold weather, and metallic paint. The total should be 38,430 before the incentives. After the incentives, $2500, it comes to $35,930, plus destination. Can anyone point me to a dealer. BMWseller. Do u know of anyone out there. Any help would be appreciated.
I can't use the forum to solicite purchases. The 330xi's may not be in real good availability (I think we've got only one left) and with the seasonality factor a dealer may demand a little more profit than a RWD. I can only really guess as far as what another dealer will do. I sold one yesterday and a new 5. You'll be driving the "ultimate" keep that in mind. 330xi is a great selection, but why not increase the active safety with xenons?
Comments
I would have gladly paid a small doc fee, but I absolutely refuse to pay the $299 doc fee. As a point of refernce, our last auto was purchased new in 2000 (as an 01 model) ... we paid 3% over invoice ... including ALL fees. Previously, we paid a $49 doc fee when we purchased a new car in 1996 (as a 96 model).
Of course my wife and I are disappointed, but this is not the end of the world. I am very encouraged by bmnick's purchase ... add the StepTronic ($1200) to his car and that is what we would like to have. In fact, the reasons we chose this particular 3 revolved around the fact that it was not bloated with premium, cold weather, and other packages we neither need or desire.
Bmnick ... if you are out there, we would like the name and phone number of your dealer/salesman.
Finally, part of the problem we are fighting is dealer monopoly. We live in Knoxville TN and there is only a single BMW dealership in this area ... Grayson BMW. There are other dealerships in Nashville, Chattanooga, and Tri-Cities ... we will most likely work with them over the next few months to find the car we want at a fair dealer profit.
Thanks for everyone's help.
Great job sticking to your guns with the dealer and their insane doc fee, too bad you didn't get the car but they are just being greedy. When I negotiated for my 03 325i two weeks ago, I only offered $700 dealer profit because I knew they were going to tack on $300 doc fee. At $1000 over true cost, I still think your dealer would make a decent profit...give them a week to think about it (I bet they will call you back if they want to move the car...all depends on how popular that set of options is in their market) and if you don't hear anything in a week, and you haven't found a better deal (and you're sure that the car is a good fit for you, regarding options and color), then call them back and offer to split the difference - pay your offer plus $150 for doc fee. But of course, you may find a better deal somewhere else...in my limited experience, the dealers outside of the major metro areas are more willing to move old inventory.
one of the tricks i've been recomended and i've used and seen others use successfully is that when the manager or damager or whoever comes out to tell you its a non negotiable fee, you ask them to provide written documentation on exactly what this fee covers in services rendered including reasons for why it is not negotiable. It is not some fee mandated by law. Most of these dealerships don't have documentary proof for reasons to charge it. And just in case a dealer gets smart and manages to pull out a load of papers on it, tell them you will have your lawyer brother in law review it and if it all looks good, you'll come back. Most dealers lately have also gotten around to pre printing this fee on the sheets, so the only real way for them to cut that cost out is to further discount your negotiated price down by a logical amount. I am ready to pay doc fees in the middle 50s maybe even upto 100, because there's manpower involved in putting together your paperwork and forwarding your information for license and tag and title, etc. and manpower is not cheap, certainly not at dealerships, but i dont see any way in which the cost of these activities or services rendered could be about maybe 50-75 bucks.
ksso
just kidding
cheers
ksso
Again, folks, this is not the right discussion to get into a debate about the ethics of the automotive sales industry. Please join an active discussion on our Smart Shopper board to pursue those thoughts.
Thank you.
ksso
Great deal. Convertibles aren't known for selling much off MSRP.
Newb.
Options
- Xenon
- Sport Pkg
- Leather
- Sunroof
Miles: 15600
Asking price: $15750
Edmunds dealer price is $21470
What do y'all think I should offer? How high should I go?
I can probably envision a sales manager showing you the door when you're a few hundred over cost and threatening to rip them on a survey.
I can't find the $2,000 incentive on any website (edmunds, cars, intellichoice, etc.) Where do I find that?
I am looking for a 2003 325 w/ leather, premium package and metallic paint. Here is the pricing on it.
Invoice MSRP
$25,460 $27,800
+$1,320 $1,450 for leather
+$2,455 $2,700 for prem. package
+$430 $475 for metallic
+695 $695 Destination fee
$30,360 $33,120 Total
So, I am thinking that $28,860 is a good price on that car. That is giving the dealer $500. Do y'all think this is a viable purchase price?
Also, wife's car has both regular and rubber floor mats and because of my daughter, we only use the rubber ones (surprisingly not made in china), and intially i thought they would make the convertible look uncool, but we are happier with them, specially me 'cuz the weekly detailing job falls on me...
now was it the 7 series, there was no question of a rubber mat.....
ksso
325xi is $1,500....330xi $2500
There is still a good selection.
Invoice price - 29315(27050+695+955+615)
The best offer I got so far - 30,750. (including mats etc) - Is this a good deal?
The dealer said that in addition to invoice, he has to pay training, mktg etc whic is another 500.
Thanks.
My clients have ALL loved it. Hello, Munich!
Premium
Cold Weather
Auto (I know, I know...)
Xenon
Including $695 freight, MSRP = $43,595.
Dealer quoted me $41500.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
I am looking into buying a 2003 325i automatic trans. with a moonroof and xenon headlights. I just received a quote of $29,490 from a dealership in San francisco that includes power front seats and the floor mat. I believe the invoice price is $29,860 - Is this a good deal considering that there may be a $1,500-2000 incentive to the dealer.
Thanks.
Auto Trans
Premium Pckg
Jet Black / Black leatherette
MSRP: 32,470 Edmunds Invoice 29,820
Dealer Quote is 28,820 or 1,000 below invoice.
Is this a good deal?
awaiting delivery....
MSRP Invoice
Base 29550 27050
Premium 3100 2820
Metallic 475 430
Dest 695 895(maco,training fee)
_____ _____
33820 31195
paid appx 4% over invoice
$1200 ttl $32395
included both carpeted and rubber mats..
I am thinking about addding BMW alarm,dealer wants $525 for system,would appreciate input if security system is sufficent that comes with car..or alarm system worth the extra cost live in city area?
Well except for me, but that's because I think he should have bought a TSX, not a bimmer.
I still believe 27k is too much, for my brother-in-law's 325i. But he's happy...so why question it? I had a friend who bought a Passat the other day after spending weeks looking with her. Still amazed someone would buy a VW.
The rest of your question is better answered in the TSX v. 325i forum.