If you save $40/mo. by putting $3500 into MSDs, at the end of 36 months, you will still have the $3500, and will have saved $1440 in after-tax dollars...
If you put the $3500 into a money market account at 5%, and withdraw $40 each month, at the end of the 3 years, you'll have $2500 left in your account, and a tax bill on the $440 in interest you earned.. (rough figures... to make for easy figuring).
So, you are behind by $1000 and the taxes on the interest earned..
In other words, the effective rate of return on the MSDs is a lot higher than a money market or savings account.
Does anybody know if cars that have already been on the lot for a number of weeks, with "old" msrp stickers, get sold at new prices after the increase last week?
I am looking at a 07 335i sedan and I am quoted $1350 over msrp on the old price or about $800 on the new price. Do I believe the dealer when he tells me that they must sell at the new price? I find it hard to believe that the dealer is paying a higher price for a car that has already been delivered.
2007 328i sedan 36 months/12,000 yr MSRP=$44,120 SALE=$42,620($1,500 off MSRP) MONEY DOWN=$2,500+fees(first month $482, $500 sec dep, $625 acq fee, $6 NJ tire tax and $88.70 doc fee.) MONEY FACTOR=.00125 RES VALUE=63%($27,795) PAYMENT=$482 month Is $1,500 off about avg? Does the down payment seem too high? Is it possible to use the $2,500 for MSD instead of money dwn? If so would the payment be about the same but with the benefit of the MSD return at lease end? VERY CONFUSED, ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED
1. IS THERE ANY BENEFIT TO TRADING IN A CAR ON A LEASE. I KNOW WHEN PURCHASING THERE IS A TAX BENEFIT BUT DOES THAT APPLY TO LEASING
IS THIS A GOOD DEAL? 2. 328i coup w/ Prem, sport, Manual Trans, Mats and Metallic Paint. 60% Residual/Money factor -.00125. 36/mo 12k/yr. MSRP =$40,620- Purchase Price $38,500. My payment is $503 + tax and total out of pocket is $1541 which includes my first payment.
Is the $2500 the total amount due upfront? Or is it $2500 plus the rest of it, for a total of $3860?
Does $482/mo. include tax?
If it is $2500 total due upfront, and tax is included in the $482/mo., then the deal is pretty much as it appears... If that isn't the case, then they are adding in some additional costs..
1) You won't get a tax break trading in on a lease.. The new car won't be in your name...
2) Again.. something doesn't add up... Adding in a $625 acquisition fee to your selling price, I get $489/mo.+ tax.. You aren't far off, but there are some extra charges in there somewhere... Ask them for a breakdown of the CAP cost.
It's a very difficult concept to understand and it takes a LOT of time for them to go through all the different scenarios, so my personal experience is that it's not something that they encourage because they themselves often don't fully understand it. That being said, it's no detriment to them if you insist on it. They'll get paid no matter what the lease rates or security deposits are.
Also, with regards to wear and tear, they will charge what they will charge. It has nothing to do with whether or not you have lent them money in the form of a security deposit. Remember, it's in their best interest to treat you well come lease return time as that will heighten the probability of you leasing from them again, which will make them much more money than jamming you on a few extra bucks in wear and tear.
$2,500+fees($1701.70 which includes $500 sec dep) for a total of $4,201.70 less the SD at lease end which seems like alot of money to throw away(meaning the $2,500) if its really not working for the lease total. $482 includes tax. (1) Should I just pay the fees only and let the monthly payment increase and save the $2,500. (2) Should I put the max SD down instead so I can get the return at lease end (I do have the cash to part with for 3 yrs). (3) Should I go with the original offer I dont know which would be cheaper in the long run, I cant find a calculator that will allow me to enter multiple SD. What would be the difference in residual values for each option? Great site, I think I may have the confidence to face a dealer(this deal was e-mailed to me and was the first offer, it didnt seem to be too out there, or am I wrong).
Would appreciate anyone sharing their experience with NYC (LI preferably) dealerships. I'm looking to buy a 2006 CPO 330i w/ PP, cold weather pack, SP, Xenon lights, 6 speed auto tiptronic trans). Thanks.
look around outside a dealership. You can find 06 330is in the mids 30s easily. No sense paying a dealer markup when the 06s will have most of the warranty. They lost tons of value because of the 328/335 of 07.
Your residual should be 63% vs. 60%...only helps you out. But otherwise, looks pretty good...I agree with kyfdx, that there is something a bit off on your payment...I get around 493 + tax...also depends on what the acquisition fee is...825 vs. 625 or somewhere in between.
I just learned that I'm going on a business trip to Frankfurt in late April. I've been thinking about another BMW convertible and the 335 looks just about perfect to me. Is there any chance of getting a deal for an ED 335 Convertible to be delivered in this short time period? If so, does anyone know of a VA dealer they could recommend for ED?
thank you for your reply. Where did you get the residual of 63%. All the BMW lease rates I find on line show 60% for 36/mo and 12k miles. PLease confirm.
TT&L due upfront for Texas: 3721.85 -($1000 deposit for ordering the car) $2721.85 Monthly pymnt: $697.30
The money factor seems quite high. How do I get the dealer to renegotiate the MF. I have researched the current MF and most receive .00125-.00175. Please advise????
Nooooo! You're getting robbed blind by this dealer.
The BASE ED invoice price on a 335i coupe is 34,930 + 775 shipping = 35705 (that's almost 6k difference in price). Admittedly, most of us negotiated 1k over Base ED invoice so make it 36705 before you add features. There is no way in hades your sales price and MSRP are only 2800 apart. It should be at least 4500. Actually more as you do not ever pay training fees or MACO on an ED car.
Renegotiate immediately. That dealer is taking you to the cleaners.
Additionally, all ED deals are finalized no more and no less than 2 weeks before your pickup date. You get the best rates that were available from the time you order to the time you finalize. So if the car is finalized in April and the rates drop, you get those.
Right now a 335's lease rates are:
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 58% of MSRP – .00170 Money Factor Buy Rate
All ED deals involve a 0.0003 increase (but BMW pays your second month). The dealer can add up to 0.0004 more. Your dealer appears to be adding 0.00025 to a deal that he's already taking full advantage of you on. He's costing you about $4k extra over the life of the lease. Negotiate a 0.0001 increase as his profit margin. That's more than enough plus the $1k profit for an ED invoice deal.
Here's the pricing list. The 335i coupe has gone up $200 since this list came out. Premium and Sport packages are $100 more ($90 more for ED as you're getting all features at invoice) and shipping is now 775.
Does anyone know how to figure Multiple Security Deposits into a lease and how it affects the residual and MF? What is the max number of deposits you can put on a 2007 328i sedan and how much for each deposit?
Does anyone no the most up to date Residual values and money Factors on a New 2007 BMW 328I Coup-36/mo 12k/miles? I thought it was 60% and .00125 but I have been told different, Please advise. Thank you!!!
What you have is correct, except dealer may try to mark up MF --
2007 BMW 328Ci Coupe
24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 68% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate 36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 58% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
Add 2% to Residual Value for 12k mi/yr and 3% for 10k mi/yr on all terms
i am about to go to ivrine bmw in southern california and negotiate a lease...help.... How much over invoice price should i try for? What is a good money factor rate? Eplain multiply security deposits as that sounds like a good idea. I want to lease for 24 to 36 months and 10,000 miles... What should i look for a a monthy payment? How does a trade in work with a lease?
1. $200 to 400 over invoice - only work with the internet sales manager. 2. A great MF is the base rate for the car your want. Decent is one point over.
Current rates: 24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 71% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate 36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 61% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
So a .00125 on a 36 mo/10k lease, residual of 64% is good.
3. Multiple Security Deposits are based on your lease figure - say $450 a month. You can buy up to seven. Getting all seven will drop your MF to 0.00076. You receive ALL of your MSD money back at the end of the lease. So if your put $3500 in MSDs into your car, you will get that $3500 back at lease end.
4. Use leaseguide.com to figure out the payments. ALWAYS negotiate sale price of the car before ever mentioning the lease. Use leaseguide.com's calculator to figure out the lease on your own - outside of the dealership.
5. NEVER trade in a car on a lease. Trading in a car on a lease is like setting fire to your money. You accomplish nothing with it.
Please read up on leasing and understand all facets of it before you talk to a dealer. Further, just deal with the internet sales manager and remember you negotiate price of the car first. Every $1000 your knock off the sale price is ~$1040 you don't have to pay BMW over the life of the lease.
1. How does Security deposit work? each reducing MF by .00007?? My dealer claims that MSD no longer applies; I think they are just blowing smoke.
2. Trade in a vehicle for lease may help reduce monthly payment, thereby reducing sales tax . . . although if the vehicle gets totalled, the consumer is indeed SOL as the gap insurance won't cover for it at all.
1. Your dealer is either ignorant or lying - salesmen especially will try to claim it doesn't save any money. My second BMW the dealership tried that. Then they said they wouldn't do them anymore. The weird thing is, MSDS don't really hurt the dealership. Walk away from that dealer. Or if you really want to fight it, get their final lease numbers, and use leaseguide.com and their calculator to show your lease with and without 7 MSDs. Have the dealer explain how that won't save you money.
Each MSD is equal to your payment rounded up to the nearest 50. So if your payment is 428, the MSDs will cost 450 each. 7 of them will run 3150 in this instance. Strangely, MSDs can sometimes equal enough that the payment drops to a new fifty - say 400. In that case the msds are $2800.
Each MSD drops your mf by 0.00007 - for a total of 0.00049.
2. No. Trade in = wasting money. You lose that money forever. If your car is worth 3k, put that 3k in the bank or into MSDs. Either way, never trade in a car under any circumstances (lease or purchase). They will take at best 1k of your profit and more likely 3k or more out of your pocket. Sell privately. The dealers will tell you not to...not because they're your friends but because that used car is the dealership's single biggest source of income. First they screw the new car buyer with a lowball offer and then they jack up the price of the used car and sell it to some other poor guy for $3000 more than they paid you for the same car.
Dealers will tell you it's not safe to sell a used car. That it's a hassle. That it never pays off. Lies. Dealers are not your friends; don't listen to them. Never trade in a car and certainly never trade in a car on a lease!
I would like to know if anyone knows if you are better off putting $2,500 down(not including fees), or putting $0 down but spending out of pocket on max MSD's? I would imagine my payment would be more but would the entire lease be cheaper? I do have the money to part with for 3 yrs so from what I have read it will save me more money in the over all lease payment than if I put it in the bank. Is this true or do I just not get it?
Thank you for the clarification. My dealer told the funniest lies: BMW used to offer MSD, but doesn't do MSD anymore because they now offer a low MF to begin with, MSD would have to apply to a higher MF base to start off; then they gave me 0.0024 on an X3 for the supposed new low MF, which is of course the highest they can mark up from 0.0020 . . . oh yeah, they also tried to use 15k/yr residual on my proposed 12k/yr lease . . . and $825 leasse inception fee . . . hahaha I guess these are the contemporary equivalent of starting the customer off on MSRP :-)
On the trade-in, I have a somewhat tricky situation. The vehicle I have in mind trading in is still worth $20k on KBB trade-in (of course, the dealer's first offer is $16.5k, your $3k off description is very accurate). It's a little hard to sell a $20k used car in private trasaction; moreover 5% sales tax on that is $1000, which I can avoid if I trade it in for something . . . I'm reluctant on buying a new car because not wanting to be in the same boat again in three years :-) Trading a fully paid for car every three years is definitely a losing game in today's lease subsidy environment. Not having car payment is emotionally desirable, but losing $10k every three years compared to leasing (after taking into account the forfeited interest income on $35-45k) is really no fun. A bit of delimma.
A quick question: I remember you leased a car locally instead of ED . . . the exact circumstance is a little hazy in my mind now . . . is it possible to get the dealer to match ED pricing on lease in general without taking a trip to Europe?
A quick question: I remember you leased a car locally instead of ED . . . the exact circumstance is a little hazy in my mind now . . . is it possible to get the dealer to match ED pricing on lease in general without taking a trip to Europe?
My first BMW was going to be ED but I stumbled across an insane deal on a 2003 ZHP in May of 2003. Essentially the car was 400 over invoice, no Maco, no training fees. I bought 10 MSDS for 0.0001 - the program has changed to 7 for 0.00007- and at that time 10 MSDS were worth 0.001 so I ended up with an MF of 0.0003 (originally 0.0013).
At the time I did not realize ED was totally negotiable because I still could have saved about 3-4k more on my lease AND picked up those insane lease rates had I ordered a car through ED. Then again, I didn't plan on leasing until I crunched the numbers.
My last BMW, a 2006 330i, I leased via ED. The salesman - same guy as last time - cut me a deal for 1k over European invoice. Everything was going smoothly until he fell ill. His friend took over and then the deal went south fast. The dealership tried to use my negotiated price as the MSRP for the lease. They tried to charge me 4 points over MF the published factors. They tried to charge Maco; big no no for ED. They demanded I start the lease 1 month in advance; it should always be two weeks before delivery. They refused to do MSDs and like your story insisted they don't exist or won't save you money.
When all was said and done I corrected their MSRP v. cap cost problems, got the MF down to a still obscene 2 points over, MACO got yanked but as they knew I had my tickets, plans and time off requested, they would not budge on MSDs or their demand for squaring the lease 1 month early. Their lies, stubbornness and duplicity cost me about $2200. I would have had a sub $400 a month payment and the lease should have ended at the end of March 2008, not mid March. Sure my payments still equal about $450 a month but that's too high, imho.
So I got taken for a ride. If I do ED again in the future, I want every aspect written down and agreed upon at the outset. And I'll probably just buy the car too...
My last deal is part of why I'm in here so often trying to help people. I can't protect everyone from opportunistic dealers but hopefully a few people won't get taken for a ride.
Your last question = unless there are rebates on a car, there's little chance you will get a 3 series priced 5k below MSRP.
Thanks alot....this site is great....i will look into the leasing site also to learn more. Will BMWFS give me the current money factor on a lease? I have a loan with them currently. I sent an email to the internet manager and he responded with a quote of base plus destination charge. Then i received a email from his assistant stated that they had the car i was interested in and asked when i could stop by and talk. Should i talk with her or just go to the manager. Thanks again for you help....Going in on thursday so will let you know....
I just gave out the lease factors for a 328i sedan;
24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 71% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate 36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 61% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
Once you negotiate a firm price - which can be done on the phone or online - plug the numbers into leaseguide.com. Ask if they have any fees associated with their leases and get those numbers too.
I feel completely stupid now. I will renegotiate the deal, if the dealer refuses to comply, how can I get another dealer to secure the current car that is in production? I really don't feel like going through the long drawn out process of re-ordering and waiting. My pickup date is less than 30 days away. Please advise some more!!!!!
One more question: What MSRP should the dealer be using to figure out lease. Should he be using the BMWNA MSRP which would be 48320 (not too include the new $100 markup for SP and PP packages) or something else?
I got the following negotiated deal in the Bay Area and I was curious about the MACO and Training service fee:
328 coupe Premium, Sport, Sirius, Metallic $41395 MSRP $39170 Negotiated price Which includes: $400 MACO + $180 Training Service Fees
I think the MACO and Training Service Fee is just BS and I plan to offer to take the deal minus those two fees. Does anyone know anything about these 2 fees and if I can get them whacked? Am I beeing overly greedy? Thanks!
MACO is right on their invoice. Ask to see their invoice on the car and the MACO should be listed. Training Fees are even listed on BMW's pricing sheet. only way to avoid those fees - get an ED BMW.
Comments
If you put the $3500 into a money market account at 5%, and withdraw $40 each month, at the end of the 3 years, you'll have $2500 left in your account, and a tax bill on the $440 in interest you earned.. (rough figures... to make for easy figuring).
So, you are behind by $1000 and the taxes on the interest earned..
In other words, the effective rate of return on the MSDs is a lot higher than a money market or savings account.
regards,
kyfdx
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I am looking at a 07 335i sedan and I am quoted $1350 over msrp on the old price or about $800 on the new price. Do I believe the dealer when he tells me that they must sell at the new price? I find it hard to believe that the dealer is paying a higher price for a car that has already been delivered.
I am looking at an 07 335i sedan, PP, SP, CW, Manual, Metallic and sunshades. Dealer is asking $43190, which is roughly $1000 over invoice.
Thx
36 months/12,000 yr
MSRP=$44,120
SALE=$42,620($1,500 off MSRP)
MONEY DOWN=$2,500+fees(first month $482, $500 sec dep, $625 acq fee, $6 NJ tire tax and $88.70 doc fee.)
MONEY FACTOR=.00125
RES VALUE=63%($27,795)
PAYMENT=$482 month
Is $1,500 off about avg?
Does the down payment seem too high?
Is it possible to use the $2,500 for MSD instead of money dwn?
If so would the payment be about the same but with the benefit of the MSD return at lease end?
VERY CONFUSED, ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED
But, you will get the $2500 back at the end of the lease, saving money overall.. That would be a better use of the money..
When I have some time a little later today, I'll work the numbers out for you...
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328i Coupe, automatic transmission, metallic paint, heated seats, sat. radio
For 3 year 10K lease:
5K out of pocket that will cover everything and 449/monthly. Is this a good deal? MSRP is 40,300 and they are giving they say 5% off of MSRP.
Can I do better? I'd like the payments to be 399 a month with 5K out of pocket, but they are hesitant on this
Please help!! The dealer is
IS THIS A GOOD DEAL?
2. 328i coup w/ Prem, sport, Manual Trans, Mats and Metallic Paint. 60% Residual/Money factor -.00125. 36/mo 12k/yr. MSRP =$40,620- Purchase Price $38,500. My payment is $503 + tax and total out of pocket is $1541 which includes my first payment.
Is the $2500 the total amount due upfront? Or is it $2500 plus the rest of it, for a total of $3860?
Does $482/mo. include tax?
If it is $2500 total due upfront, and tax is included in the $482/mo., then the deal is pretty much as it appears... If that isn't the case, then they are adding in some additional costs..
regards,
kyfdx
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2) Again.. something doesn't add up... Adding in a $625 acquisition fee to your selling price, I get $489/mo.+ tax.. You aren't far off, but there are some extra charges in there somewhere... Ask them for a breakdown of the CAP cost.
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If the car you're looking at was at his dealership prior to 3/1/07, he is lying to you about having to use the newer pricing.
Also, with regards to wear and tear, they will charge what they will charge. It has nothing to do with whether or not you have lent them money in the form of a security deposit. Remember, it's in their best interest to treat you well come lease return time as that will heighten the probability of you leasing from them again, which will make them much more money than jamming you on a few extra bucks in wear and tear.
$482 includes tax.
(1) Should I just pay the fees only and let the monthly payment increase and save the $2,500.
(2) Should I put the max SD down instead so I can get the return at lease end (I do have the cash to part with for 3 yrs).
(3) Should I go with the original offer
I dont know which would be cheaper in the long run, I cant find a calculator that will allow me to enter multiple SD.
What would be the difference in residual values for each option?
Great site, I think I may have the confidence to face a dealer(this deal was e-mailed to me and was the first offer, it didnt seem to be too out there, or am I wrong).
MSRP 33650
Negotiatied price 31515 ($500 + invoice)
MF 0.00125
10K miles, 36 mos
625 acq. fee
Only first payment down
$398/month
Base Price $35,790.00
Power Rear Shade $525.00
Metallic Paint $430.00
Cold Weather Pkg $910.00
Premium Pkg $2,320.00
Sport Pkg $1,545.00
Destination & Handling $775.00
Training Service Fee $180.00
MACO $380.00
TOTAL $42,855.00
Also, as many others have alluded to, make sure your Bank Fee is $625, since they will often tack on an extra $200 to that fee.
328i Coupe, automatic transmission, metallic paint, heated seats, sat. radio, leather seats
For 3 year 10K lease:
5K out of pocket that will cover everything and 449/monthly. Is this a good deal? MSRP is 40,300 and they are giving they say 5% off of MSRP.
Can I do better? I'd like the payments to be 399 a month with 5K out of pocket, but they are hesitant on this
Please help!! The dealer is
I just learned that I'm going on a business trip to Frankfurt in late April. I've been thinking about another BMW convertible and the 335 looks just about perfect to me. Is there any chance of getting a deal for an ED 335 Convertible to be delivered in this short time period? If so, does anyone know of a VA dealer they could recommend for ED?
328i Coupe, automatic transmission, metallic paint, heated seats, sat. radio, leather seats
For 3 year 10K lease:
5K out of pocket that will cover everything and 449/monthly. Is this a good deal? MSRP is 40,300 and they are giving they say 5% off of MSRP.
Can I do better? I'd like the payments to be 399 a month with 5K out of pocket, but they are hesitant on this
BR,
MSRP: $48320
Selling price: 45480
MF: .00225
Residual: 58%
term: 36
Mileage: 15k
Aquisition fees: $99.05
TT&L due upfront for Texas: 3721.85 -($1000 deposit for ordering the car) $2721.85
Monthly pymnt: $697.30
The money factor seems quite high. How do I get the dealer to renegotiate the MF. I have researched the current MF and most receive .00125-.00175. Please advise????
The BASE ED invoice price on a 335i coupe is 34,930 + 775 shipping = 35705 (that's almost 6k difference in price). Admittedly, most of us negotiated 1k over Base ED invoice so make it 36705 before you add features. There is no way in hades your sales price and MSRP are only 2800 apart. It should be at least 4500. Actually more as you do not ever pay training fees or MACO on an ED car.
Renegotiate immediately. That dealer is taking you to the cleaners.
Additionally, all ED deals are finalized no more and no less than 2 weeks before your pickup date. You get the best rates that were available from the time you order to the time you finalize. So if the car is finalized in April and the rates drop, you get those.
Right now a 335's lease rates are:
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 58% of MSRP – .00170 Money Factor Buy Rate
All ED deals involve a 0.0003 increase (but BMW pays your second month). The dealer can add up to 0.0004 more. Your dealer appears to be adding 0.00025 to a deal that he's already taking full advantage of you on. He's costing you about $4k extra over the life of the lease. Negotiate a 0.0001 increase as his profit margin. That's more than enough plus the $1k profit for an ED invoice deal.
Here's the pricing list. The 335i coupe has gone up $200 since this list came out. Premium and Sport packages are $100 more ($90 more for ED as you're getting all features at invoice) and shipping is now 775.
http://internetaddictionhelp.com/files/07_3_Cpe.pdf
Visit the ED forum here and at bimmerfest for more help. Your dealer is definitely taking advantage of you in a big way.
What is the max number of deposits you can put on a 2007 328i sedan and how much for each deposit?
I thought it was 60% and .00125 but I have been told different, Please advise. Thank you!!!
2007 BMW 328Ci Coupe
24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 68% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 58% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
Add 2% to Residual Value for 12k mi/yr and 3% for 10k mi/yr on all terms
How much over invoice price should i try for?
What is a good money factor rate?
Eplain multiply security deposits as that sounds like a good idea.
I want to lease for 24 to 36 months and 10,000 miles...
What should i look for a a monthy payment?
How does a trade in work with a lease?
Thanks so much
linda
2. A great MF is the base rate for the car your want. Decent is one point over.
Current rates:
24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 71% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 61% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
So a .00125 on a 36 mo/10k lease, residual of 64% is good.
3. Multiple Security Deposits are based on your lease figure - say $450 a month. You can buy up to seven. Getting all seven will drop your MF to 0.00076. You receive ALL of your MSD money back at the end of the lease. So if your put $3500 in MSDs into your car, you will get that $3500 back at lease end.
4. Use leaseguide.com to figure out the payments. ALWAYS negotiate sale price of the car before ever mentioning the lease. Use leaseguide.com's calculator to figure out the lease on your own - outside of the dealership.
5. NEVER trade in a car on a lease. Trading in a car on a lease is like setting fire to your money. You accomplish nothing with it.
Please read up on leasing and understand all facets of it before you talk to a dealer. Further, just deal with the internet sales manager and remember you negotiate price of the car first. Every $1000 your knock off the sale price is ~$1040 you don't have to pay BMW over the life of the lease.
2. Trade in a vehicle for lease may help reduce monthly payment, thereby reducing sales tax . . . although if the vehicle gets totalled, the consumer is indeed SOL as the gap insurance won't cover for it at all.
Each MSD is equal to your payment rounded up to the nearest 50. So if your payment is 428, the MSDs will cost 450 each. 7 of them will run 3150 in this instance. Strangely, MSDs can sometimes equal enough that the payment drops to a new fifty - say 400. In that case the msds are $2800.
Each MSD drops your mf by 0.00007 - for a total of 0.00049.
2. No. Trade in = wasting money. You lose that money forever. If your car is worth 3k, put that 3k in the bank or into MSDs. Either way, never trade in a car under any circumstances (lease or purchase). They will take at best 1k of your profit and more likely 3k or more out of your pocket. Sell privately. The dealers will tell you not to...not because they're your friends but because that used car is the dealership's single biggest source of income. First they screw the new car buyer with a lowball offer and then they jack up the price of the used car and sell it to some other poor guy for $3000 more than they paid you for the same car.
Dealers will tell you it's not safe to sell a used car. That it's a hassle. That it never pays off. Lies. Dealers are not your friends; don't listen to them. Never trade in a car and certainly never trade in a car on a lease!
I do have the money to part with for 3 yrs so from what I have read it will save me more money in the over all lease payment than if I put it in the bank.
Is this true or do I just not get it?
On the trade-in, I have a somewhat tricky situation. The vehicle I have in mind trading in is still worth $20k on KBB trade-in (of course, the dealer's first offer is $16.5k, your $3k off description is very accurate). It's a little hard to sell a $20k used car in private trasaction; moreover 5% sales tax on that is $1000, which I can avoid if I trade it in for something . . . I'm reluctant on buying a new car because not wanting to be in the same boat again in three years :-) Trading a fully paid for car every three years is definitely a losing game in today's lease subsidy environment. Not having car payment is emotionally desirable, but losing $10k every three years compared to leasing (after taking into account the forfeited interest income on $35-45k) is really no fun. A bit of delimma.
My first BMW was going to be ED but I stumbled across an insane deal on a 2003 ZHP in May of 2003. Essentially the car was 400 over invoice, no Maco, no training fees. I bought 10 MSDS for 0.0001 - the program has changed to 7 for 0.00007- and at that time 10 MSDS were worth 0.001 so I ended up with an MF of 0.0003 (originally 0.0013).
At the time I did not realize ED was totally negotiable because I still could have saved about 3-4k more on my lease AND picked up those insane lease rates had I ordered a car through ED. Then again, I didn't plan on leasing until I crunched the numbers.
My last BMW, a 2006 330i, I leased via ED. The salesman - same guy as last time - cut me a deal for 1k over European invoice. Everything was going smoothly until he fell ill. His friend took over and then the deal went south fast. The dealership tried to use my negotiated price as the MSRP for the lease. They tried to charge me 4 points over MF the published factors. They tried to charge Maco; big no no for ED. They demanded I start the lease 1 month in advance; it should always be two weeks before delivery. They refused to do MSDs and like your story insisted they don't exist or won't save you money.
When all was said and done I corrected their MSRP v. cap cost problems, got the MF down to a still obscene 2 points over, MACO got yanked but as they knew I had my tickets, plans and time off requested, they would not budge on MSDs or their demand for squaring the lease 1 month early. Their lies, stubbornness and duplicity cost me about $2200. I would have had a sub $400 a month payment and the lease should have ended at the end of March 2008, not mid March. Sure my payments still equal about $450 a month but that's too high, imho.
So I got taken for a ride. If I do ED again in the future, I want every aspect written down and agreed upon at the outset. And I'll probably just buy the car too...
My last deal is part of why I'm in here so often trying to help people. I can't protect everyone from opportunistic dealers but hopefully a few people won't get taken for a ride.
Your last question = unless there are rebates on a car, there's little chance you will get a 3 series priced 5k below MSRP.
24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 71% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 61% of MSRP – .00125 Money Factor Buy Rate
Once you negotiate a firm price - which can be done on the phone or online - plug the numbers into leaseguide.com. Ask if they have any fees associated with their leases and get those numbers too.
328i Coupe w/STEPTRONIC, Premium, Sport, Comfort & Navigation
MSRP: $44,200
Sell Price: $41,465
36mth / 12k/yr
Res. 60%
MF: .00140
Out the door: 957.75
Mth: $569.52 includes tax of 7.75%
One more question: What MSRP should the dealer be using to figure out lease. Should he be using the BMWNA MSRP which would be 48320 (not too include the new $100 markup for SP and PP packages) or something else?
:mad:
328 coupe
Premium, Sport, Sirius, Metallic
$41395 MSRP
$39170 Negotiated price Which includes: $400 MACO + $180 Training Service Fees
I think the MACO and Training Service Fee is just BS and I plan to offer to take the deal minus those two fees. Does anyone know anything about these 2 fees and if I can get them whacked? Am I beeing overly greedy? Thanks!
I believe they'll charge you the new prices as the car wasn't really sold prior to March 1 increases. It's up to you and the dealer.
Stevens Creek BMW in Bay area gave a quote on 2007 328 sedan for 36mo./12k lease as following:
residual: 63% MF: 0.0018.
Sales: $1500 below MSRP.
I've read other postings that says 0.00125 MF for 328 sedan. Am I getting mark-up on MF by the dealer?
Thanks much in advance.