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1) You got a special discount not available to most of us.
2) In my case, in particular, I've been researching the Maxx probably for longer than you (over a year now). And I like it, but it's overpriced (especially now that I see what imported COMPACTS are now offering). And, to me, the extra stuff now on the new Malibu/Maxx, engine aside, isn't all that attractive to me (and that's what made the bean counters jack up the price so high). Nor are the optional stuff like OnStar (which won't work if the battery is damaged in an accident, by the way), XM (big deal if you already have a zillion radio stations), DVD player, and on and on. I'd much rather have DVD navigation and head AND side curtain airbags. Also, we'll see after at least 6 more months if the stuff still works. And we'll see in a year how much the Malibu/Maxx are worth in the resale market. And we'll see in a few months if GM screwed up crash testing, like what just happened with the new Grand Prix.
3) Due to lack of interest by members, the "Maxx vs." comparisons board was discontinued, so we have no place else to go (similar situation in the sedan board, almost). I tried in vain a few weeks ago to stir up interest (via the sedan forum) in establishing a Malibu Owner's Club (which the host thought was a GREAT idea), because that would establish a seperate forum for current owners to discuss matters. Also, remember, I'm a current owner, like it or not. And the response was nil, myself excepted, so I didn't persue it any further. So, we're left with a mishmash in both this and the Malibu forum of current owners and possible owners. Feel free to try again. Just be aware that we don't have many Maxx owners yet, so the other discussion would be a better place to create a member drive, if you're so inclined. IMHO, the Malibu and Maxx forums need to be combined in some way acceptable to Edmund's. I noticed the same hodgepodge yesterday in that the Mazda3 sedan and hatch have seperate forums. Makes no sense. To be a good sport, I'll post something to cross-reference your post and my reply in the Malibu discussion, and I'd appreciate your chiming in as well. You're welcome.
Look at a base Maxx. The car is very well equipped with alloys/ABS/disc brakes, adjustable pedals and a nice V6. For the same price you are looking at a comparable stripped 4 banger Accord with alloys but no ABS. Factor in $1000 cash back and the added utility and I don't see where you see the car as "expensive"
I have linked this discussion into that folder, but it will always reside here in Wagons.
Looking forward to meeting everyone!
KarenS
Host
Owners Clubs
Now that us owners can discuss "our stuff" in other discussions, let's continue the Maxx debate among PROSPECTIVE buyers in this one.
dindak, you and I are not that far apart (I do believe, honestly and fairly, that you're even more mixed up as far as a short list than I am). That said, first, yes, I would pay $2K for a NAV system, but I don't want a lot of the junk on the Maxx LS that comes standard and that inherently increased the price. Yes, sure, the 3.5 over the 3.1 is in and of itself worth something and the functionality of the Maxx is worth something. But, down here in FL, I could care less about remote start, for example. And I'm sure the bean counters factored in a nice profit on that item alone.
Also, I want leather, so the LS is moot. As members have noted, the LS cloth (especially in grey, which I'd want, as I've had 3 cars in a row now with neutral), really is "UglyCloth". Had leather been an option on the LS, OK, I'd start to see the value. But, no, they got too hungry and made me look at an LT, which then includes even more stuff (like heated seats) that I don't want.
Basically, if I'm going to keep a car for 4-6 years and drive a lot, I want a good dollop of luxuries (of my own choosing). So, the LT with what I'd want is way overpriced. The base sedan at a few $ under $19K is VERY fairly priced. So, the numbers crunchers obviously loaded in the profit margins on all the extra stuff included in the LS and LT versions.
By, the way, we can agree to disgree about colors. Personally, I hate the new Bu or Maxx in the darker shades. It highlights the grille bar way too much. They look best in silver or white.
Note to oldntired: Well, I haven't been to the sedan forum yet to see what happened, but by now you've seen the result. I suggest you start posting stuff. By the way, my last jab at you for the moment is that you pride yourself for buying American, when in fact, the engine (a LARGE part of the vehicle) was made in Mexico. So much for that argument. Even if I end up with a Mazda 3s 5-door, part of those dollars go to Ford. NOTHING is all-American anymore, for the most part.
Malibu Maxx' rear seat is massive, call it full-size plus. Cross your legs, easily.
But yeah, people are whacky, they'll still cross-shop these. I think the Volvo V50 is shaped more usefully than the 3, though.
-juice
On Star. I'm still debating the merits of that. But, again, pre-Lutz, it was standard on most mid-to-high-end trim lines. $695?, you must be on something. Bet the hardware/software costs GM $100 max. Since GM owns OnStar, it's pure profit to GM.
Both OnStar and XM require a monthly subscription after a certain period. There is NO WAY that the price of entry should be as high as it is.
-juice
It's the hatch/wagon utility that is the reason for my interest in the Maxx, not the kiddie room in back.
Could care less about the skylight, either.
Safety is a BIG issue with me.
It's reassuring to know that the Mazda 3, the Volvo S40/V50 and the new European Focus were all designed together, with Volvo taking the lead on safety.
So, I'm not gonna spend around $30K (my guesstimate) to start (I couldn't afford that anyway) on a Volvo V50, when a Mazda 3 will do just fine. Also not worried about the 3s big bro, the 6, and it's marginal side crash scores, since they are completely different platforms.
On another subject, it's not just GM pulling these cost-cutting maneuvers. Ford's gotta be doing it too, in light of recent $ troubles. I'm worried about Ford's new products as well.
dindak, to clear one thing up. I'm sitting on the fence re: sedan vs. hatch/wagon. While the 3s 5-door appears to be the Maxx alternative, the top-drawer Sonata appears to be the Malibu sedan alternative. I was just "looking at" the LaCrosse, more since I'm a car guy, with NEVER an intention to buy that (and I've seen you in more than a few forums wondering why you were in those, so fair is fair). It's not as ugly as certain parts of the Malibu, by the way. Just disappointing. I'd expected better with it, the Malibu and the Maxx.
I'll hop right back on board with a Bu or Maxx if GM comes to its senses and throws more money (a LOT more $) on the table by mid-summer.
The 3 will benefit from the Volvo link, definitely. It gets side curtains and some really premium options, too.
But...I still think they made it very small, more a 5 door hatch than a true wagon.
Wait for the Maxx' rebates, you might get more size for the same money.
-juice
You keep using the word "over priced". I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree. Even CR says the Malibu is a bargain.
ABS is optional on almost any base sedan, Chevy is not doing anything but offering up what the competition is doing.
Colors - subjective.
With your growing family you will see the need for space.
Make it a Maxx wagon and we could fit.
-juice
First, neither the vehicle that reg and I are acquiring are to be the "family truckster".
dindak: Let's go thru this one more time. Let's compare the Malibu sedans, since I haven't priced the Maxx carefully as of yet (and I'm sure I'll hurl when I do).
You take a loaded 2003 Malibu LS. Sticker $22,090. $3,000 rebate (got to $3,500 at one point), less say $1,400 dealer discount and you get a pre-tax total of $17,690.
2004 loaded Malibu LT (although I'd cut back on a few options, I'm not sure what the total would be. Maybe $1,300 less). Sticker $25,740. $1,000 rebate, less $1,500 dealer discount (argue all you want; that's all they're discounting down here) and you get a pre-tax total of $23,240.
Where the "h" is the value in the $5,550 difference? I'm not going to waste my time delineating all of the improvements in the '04 over the '03; you know what they are, but regardless, the new one IS NOT worth $5,550 more.
Put another $2,000 on the hood and I'd agree, I guess, to a $3,550 increase.
Comprende?
Frankly, although I'm not buying until July/Aug., I'm really being swayed by the Mazda 3. Dealer is closer (1/2 mile vs. 6), resale value will be undoubtedly a higher %, city mileage is higher, and yes (despite some that say MapQuest is the answer, which is no good if I'm on the road, get a call, and have to locate someone in the "boonies"), I'd pay the $1,750 for the NAV. Plus the dealer is listing the 3 hatch in the paper (not sure I believe the ad, however) for a discount of $4,100 off sticker.
I'd much rather pay $19,000 for a loaded 3s 5-door than $25,000 (close guesstimate, using the $1,000 cash back) for a loaded Maxx LT. BIG difference. And yes, you get a few features on the Maxx which are N/A on the 3, plus a tad more cargo space (but not much), but you also get a few more features (including safety features) which are N/A on the Maxx.
I'm not arguing anymore until I actually sit in both. It's pointless, I'm sure you agree.
CR said the Malibu had more interior space than the Grand Prix, even.
The 3 is about the size of a Cavalier or Cobalt, maybe even a tad smaller.
-juice
Since I'm also looking at the sedan, THAT'S PRECISELY WHY I used the sedans to compare. Apples vs. apples, no?
-juice
Hyundai charges $450 (due to the 10/100,000 powertrain coverage), Honda around $800, Mazda around $1,000. I gleaned the latter 2 prices from posts. I know for sure about the Hyundai price.
I'd hoped to use some of my GM Card Earnings to cover the full GMPP price, but since I can only use $1,000 towards the Bu/Maxx, I'm in the hole another $1,000.
I don't care how GM chooses to do it: increase the allowance for loyal GM Cardholders (have $3,000 in earnings), plop $2K more in for owner loyalty, or add $2K across-the-board.
Otherwise, I'll be shopping elsewhere.
Can you use it for service or parts? I wonder because that's how Subaru does it. 3% back to be used on anything at the dealer, even an oil change or a bike holder for the roof rack.
-juice
Checked out the total cost to own and the Maxx comes out at $36,847 based on a cash price of $23,387 versus the Accord at $29,188 based on cash price of $25,910. Looks like the major differences are 1st year Depreciation - $4,892 (Accord) vs. $8,744 (Maxx) and Maintenance (5-years) $3,384 (Accord) vs. $7,639 (Maxx).
Something seems out of kilter that a car based on a price $2,000 less over 5-years costs $7,000 to own. To me that looks like a value swing of $9,000 to the Honda. What is the deal here? I'm looking for enlightment!!
Here is the response from the TCO team:
"I believe that you answered your own question here. The main difference is the depreciation on the vehicles, Honda has always maintained a high resale value and Chevrolet hasn't. The maintenance costs are based on factory recommended services and Chevrolet has a more demanding maintenance schedule."
The depreciation is also offset by greater discounts and lower insurance and gas cost.
like chevyguy says, it ain't no family truckster. It'd be my fun wagon, just want some utility for the occasional bigger box purchase. Example, I want to get a new TV soon for my kitchen. I am able to get anything from a 20-27". A lot of sedans will not hold that tv in the box. A hatchback with folding seats will get that tv in.
to elaborate on the mazda/maxx comparo, TO ME, the 3 doesn't really have much less cargo room and even tho the cabin is smaller the more upright seating position makes it feel more comfortable. plus the seats and interior are way nicer in the 3. The 3 feels like the car that ought to be 5 grand more. The 6 wagon would be equal price, and has more space and is much nicer overall as well.
WHat is it with the notion of all these folks that once you have a kid, you need to give up a fun car and start driving a big ugly fat slob of a vehicle? Vans are nice, SUV's are nice, but I don't need one. Leave some of your stuff at home.
That said, if I ever do need a big fat space hog, the FOrd Freestyle is looking like a darn good offering.
I was reading your comments on things you thought your Maxx was deficient on (no rear wiper, etc.) and I noticed you didn't mention the headrests.
Just out of curiousity, what is your opinion on the headrests? Several people posting on this board have never driven the car and are bashing the headrests. I just thought it'd be interesting to hear your take.
I've seen a few of the 3 Sports around now and it's amazing how much their profile looks like a Vibe from a distance now. Great car, sporty and fun, just not as much space. I see they have low finance deal on them now though. I know you have not driven a Maxx so you might want to before you say it's no fun.
Guess I'll see the Maxx on Monday, as my monthly trip for service beckons.
And I'll rack up more GMPP expenses, so GM can raise the price of the Extended Warranty even more. Just doing my job.
Yes, our other vehicle is a minivan, but I don't talk about that vehicle (a DC product). So, I don't need a family truckster for me.
Since the 3 5-door is only 1/2" less in width than the Maxx (but, yes, 10" shorter), I'll be very surprised if the cargo capacity is really all that much less. I'll see the 3 next month.
I feel like I'm starting to waste my time. After all of the problems I've had in just the last month or so, would YOU buy another GM product? Didn't think so.
You may very well be very disappointed if you don't. The 3 is not even nearly close to the Maxx.
You told me to wait for the LaCrosse. I may still look at it and drive it when it comes out, but I suspect I will be in Five Hundred/Montego. But at least look at the 6 Hatch before you decide on a 3. On the other hand, the 3 is going to be a lot less money than the 6 Hatch...
The 6 sedan didn't do well in side crash tests, and I see no reason why the hatch would improve.
I appreciate the advice, though.
The 3 is shorter, but from pix, I'm guessing that the reduction in length is mostly ahead of the rear seat. That's why I'm not seeing much diff in the cargo hold. But, that's pix. I might be surprised by the Maxx on Monday, but kinda doubt it.
I'm not buying anything until summer anyway. If I have to rent a room at the dealer until then (and I just might have to!), so be it.
P.S. John: yeah, I did suggest you look at a LaCrosse. But that was when I was under the impression that it'd look like it did back in '01/'02 (the sedan with portholes). Not to digress, but I still think that GM is mixed up on the LC. Currently, they have it trying to be all things to all people.
For some reason, NHTSA tests some vehicles with side airbags and some without. Don't quote me on this, but I think the 6 was tested without and got 3 stars (1-5 scale) for both front and rear occupants on the side. The 6 got double 5's in the front, by the way.
The IIHS website is www.iihs.org. I don't think they've yet posted much of anything on the '04s yet.
Check out the Buick LaCrosse discussion for info on a recently "departed" member. Why me? Now, all of a sudden, another "partner in crime" seems to have disappeared as well. Hmmm.....
Anyway, friend (out-of-state; large metro area) test drove a Maxx this week and came away unimpressed. Not looks, not people/cargo capacity, but the engine. This is another one that's, plain and simple, used to OHC engines. Loved the acceleration, but in his words, "what good is 0-60 in 2.5 seconds gonna do me when I'm stuck in gridlock?" "Sounded raspy". You want a raspy engine? One's in the driveway.
Anyway, yes, the GM Card has redemption limits, and they are vehicle-specific. Also cannot be used on parts & service. You get 5% on every purchase.
There ARE, however 2 GM Cards, the old and the new. I'm an inagural member ('92, as I recall), and at that point, you could earn a max of $500 per year for up to 7 years. No vehicle limits. I used earnings on 3 vehicles.
In 2000, they began to offer another program (the "New GM Card"). No yearly earnings cap, but vehicle-specific limits. Since I can run both most biz AND personal stuff thru it, I switched. Bad move, in retrospect. Yes, right now, $1,000 is all I can use on a new Bu/Maxx.