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VW Ignition Coil Problems?

mikedhmsumikedhmsu Member Posts: 2
edited March 2014 in Volkswagen
I recently purchased a 2002 VW Passat 1.8T in April 2002, and have 11,500 miles on it. This past Friday, I started the car to go to Home Depot, and the car was shaking from side to side, with the MIL light blinking. I tried to back out and go down the street, but was unable to go over 25 MPH. The dealer tells me its a bad ignition coil, and that there is a current back order nationwide on this item. Has anyone else experienced this problem? This is the ifrst trouble I've had, and really like this car. Any help would be great, thanks!
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Comments

  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    for the randy heck of it, try NAPA and some other parts stores to see if there are any replacement coils by outfits like bosch, neihoff, or another quality branded ignition supplier.

    Dad bought a Ford when he finally got mustered out after WWII, a hard trick to accomplish as everybody who could was replacing their pre-war beaters, and it drove him to distraction after a few years when it started intermittently running like trash. dealer couldn't get it figured out, so he traded it in on something else down the street. ran into an old farmer a few months later who had bought the car, said it was the best he ever had. "but what about the engine trouble?" "ach, those Fords, everybody knew they had a bad coil. I went to Coast-to-Coast, got a coil, no trouble since."

    moral: if another plant makes those coils, bet they are not screwing up whatever VW's supplier did.
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    Yes, there is a coil pack problem. Word has it that VW changed suppliers some time in 2001.

    This problem also exists for Audi A4 1.8T owners as well.

    Many folks on vwvortex.com and clubb5.com are reporting the exact same problem - car shakes, MIL flashing, coil pack dead.

    VW used to replace all 4 when this happens, since the other 3 coils are being "over worked". They've changed their stance and are replacing only the bad coil pack due to short supplies.

    This was also mentioned in AutoWeek.

    -Craig
  • mikedhmsumikedhmsu Member Posts: 2
    I will visit those other sites, and try to look up in AutoWeek the article. The car is aleady at the dealers, and I hope that I can get it back today.

    Do I get to have a say about which manufatcurer to use, seeing as VW's new supplier for the coils aren't reliable? I'm guessing probably not, unless I go to a private or third-party shop.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    but if you can't wait, buy something else and drive. when the parts come in, put the original rotten coil pack back on, and sputter on in. that way you get your driving done, and say! -- what's this in a box in the trunk? -- why, it's a known working good coil pack!
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    Supposidly, VW changed back to their orignal supplier already and the replacements aren't failing.

    It only took 2+ years for them to realize their mistake.

    -Craig
  • mike1qazmike1qaz Member Posts: 93
    This is a known problem. Visit the Passat forums on this board and find out the other grelims waiting for you.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    Grelims are not that bad, really.

    With some cars, you have gremlins waiting for you. Luckily, that is not the case with VWs. And Grelim's faulty coil packs are replaced under warranty.

    - D
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    This gremlin will leave us stranded.

    Squeaks and rattles are one thing. Even an MFA that doesn't work all the time. But a coil pack? This is a KNOWN issue by VW (they admitted to it in AutoWeek). There is a 3-5 week backorder on these things in certain areas of the country. This is also a safety issue: on the highway with an 18 wheeler closely following, and bang. Coil pack dead. What happens next I dare not say.

    This should be a recall. Plain and simple. VW had a good coil pack design from 98 through 01. Then they went with a different supplier to save a few bucks. Now 1.8Ts are blowing coil packs left and right. VW saw this, and went back to the original (or yet another) supplier.

    -Craig
  • mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    it took VW two years to track it down, acknowlidge the problem and fix it!

    It took Chrysler over TEN years to even admit their tranny problems in their minivans!

    Did the supplier of the bad coil packs supply VW with most of their Jetta parts as well?
  • 03honda03honda Member Posts: 96
    Hi, I have a 2002 1.8t Passat Wagon, I have been reading a lot about the coils problems, although mine haven't failed yet, should I ask my dealer to replace them? would they be covered under the warranty?

    thanks a lot!
  • pkraddpkradd Member Posts: 358
    Dealers will not do what you state unless there is a offiical recall. The Warranty will only cover when things go wrong not in anticipation of a problem happening.
  • 03honda03honda Member Posts: 96
  • pkraddpkradd Member Posts: 358
    Perhaps not all Passats used the offending supplier or lots of the problem coils anyway.
  • wdwwardwdwward Member Posts: 9
    There is much information on this thread over at http://clubb5.zeroforum.com
  • focus090focus090 Member Posts: 85
    so i havea 2002 passat, and have had the same problem, started it one morning, smelled rotten eggs, the car shook abnormally, and would hardly go over 30mph. took it to the dealership and they've had it for 2 1/2 weeks now. they've been waiting for the part - the coil patch they called it. so we contacted vw of america talked to people at corporate headquartersand eventually got a free rental car, taxes paid by vw and all...turns out i get it back thursday! i'm happy as hell, i miss driving my european turbo tank...nore so than this 2001 dodge stratus rental. if there is such a probloem with this one part, it should be recalled...if it were a ford car, it would have been recalled a year ago. (that could be taken as a knock to ford or a compliment)
  • passatprincesspassatprincess Member Posts: 1
    Just wondering if any of you have been charged for the repairs that have been made on the coil packs?
  • bjh17bjh17 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2002 Passat and I'm on the 3rd Coil problem. The car has to be towed in tomorrow. I cannot believe that nothing can be done about this. The first time was when the car was 6 months old, then again 4 months later and now 5 weeks later it happens again. The wind can shake the car and I get nervous I won't make it home or to the dealer. The dealer said "if" they have the part, they will replace it again, why bother, the replacement part is just as defective as the coil that is there now.
  • rcam2rcam2 Member Posts: 2
    My wife's 2003 Passat had an ignition coil fail with 6000 miles on the clock. Part is on backorder. Looks like VW has decided to carry a known problem over into the new model year.
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    VW changed to a "better" supplier of coil packs some time in August 2002. Check the build date of your 2003 (on the drivers side front door jam). If it's August 2002, you may have the old packs. If it's before August 2002, you definitely have the old packs. If September 2002 or later, you have the new ones.

    You can also check the packs themselves. Those ending with "H" are bad. Those ending with "J" are the new ones.

    To check, remove the cover of the engine (3 screws). The part number of the packs is on the "back" side (facing the windshield).

    My 2002 was build in March 2002, so I'm just waiting for the packs to go.

    -Craig
  • pkraddpkradd Member Posts: 358
    I ahve a 2001.5 Passat with 15,000 miles. Will there be a problem with the coil packs?
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    Check the part number of the packs. The packs before the "H" (bad) ones is "G". Those, as far as I know, are good.

    They made the change some time in 2001. I'm guessing that the 2001.5's have the "H" packs, but I'm not certain.

    But don't you have a Mexican Jetta? I'm not sure if VW shipped these packs there.

    -Craig
  • wagonmeisterwagonmeister Member Posts: 15
    Dealers here in Ontario are pulling coil packs off of cars on the lot to help customers get back on the road. They're as frustrated as the customers about this problem.

    The question I have is, how did VW let this problem work its way down to production vehicles? For a auto giant as large as VW, they must have some rigorous quality control testing on outsourced components. When they do a deal with suppliers you would think they would get at least 6-months lead time to test the first batch of components before putting them on production vehicles, or am I naive about the way car companies use JIT parts sourcing to keep inventories and production costs low.

    How on earth any VW exec thinks that anyone will shell out $50k+ on a Phaeton when the current high-end model (ie. Passat) has a problem like this is beyond me.
  • pkraddpkradd Member Posts: 358
    I have a Passat not Jetta. There is no sticker in the door jam. I removed the cover to the engine but did not see any sticker or number on the engine block area facing the windshield. Maybe its on the cover. Should I check again. I think I'll call the dealer and find out. Bet they say they know nothing about it.
  • outrunoutrun Member Posts: 539
    Someone here has a Jetta.

    No sticker on the door jam? That's odd.

    The part number is on the coil itself (actually, all 4 of them). It's not a sticker (I don't think). It's imprinted on the part itself. The section of the part that has the part number is the "back side" - the side that faces the windshield.

    -Craig
  • pkraddpkradd Member Posts: 358
    Still can't find any number (I did see the Audi rings on the block though!). I'll ask my neighbor to look. Anyway, mine is a 2001.5 Passat manufactured in 2001 - the first run of the soon to be 2002. I hope that this means no problem. Oh well.
    OK. I found a number 088 D. Is that it?
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    you can put six or eight coil packs in environmental ovens and pulse 'em for a half year and they may well all test OK. things are a little different when you get into production... the coil winder machines are cranked up in speed, you use larger spools of wire and may get twist in the coils, coils are bumped along in transport cartons from one work station to another, rubbing all the way, where you used hand labor to move the prototypes around on the production stations, now machines clamp 'em around the middle, squeeze, and rotate... lots of changes.

    anything wrong in the entire process that nicks a wire, scratches insulation, or puts kinks in the windings, you are set up for part failure in a HV impulse coil.

    and that's what happens. you have to be in production and testing on the buyers to find these issues.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    Well it happened! One coil went out on my 2002 1.8T Passat built in March 2002. I've been singing the praises of this car, and I still love it, but I've had 2 Infinitis with no problems, just routine maintainance, and this is my first German car since my Porsche that I owned 20 years ago.
    The dealer has been very good about it. they towed my car in and gave me a rental car, however they will not replace all 4 coils because of the demand for the part. I don't like driving the car knowing that the other 3 coils could go out at any time. Hopefully when they get caught up on production, they'll have a recall and replace all of the faulty coils
    I'm still very impressed with the car but I hope this is not an indication of things to come. If VW had not extended the warantee to 4 years, I probably would not have bought a Passat.
  • frapzoidfrapzoid Member Posts: 127
    Seems like the people who are having problems with coil packs have the turbo engine. Are the V6 engines at risk of coil pack problems?
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    All of the VW and Audi engines have had problems including the new W8, which means you have 8 chances to return to your friendly service department.
  • vwhater1vwhater1 Member Posts: 3
    As I am reading all of these posts, I am wondering, has anyone researched federal lemon law, or state lemon law. I have just had it with our '02 Passat Wagon. It's had repeated coil problems, digital dash readout sometimes conks out, dealer can't find what's wrong, radio went dead and has been replaced. All before 6,000 miles.
    I'd drive it through the dealer's front window, but it's been sitting on their backlot, waiting for another bum coil for two weeks now. I get the great pleasure of paying to drive German engineering, but the loaner is an Intrepid. I am hot as lava about this junker. I hope that anyone who is considering buying a Passat reads this and decides to buy a Honda or a Toyota like we should have. I really hope that Consumer Reports reconsiders naming Passat a "recommended buy". And worse yet "top rated family sedan." I really will wonder how fast I can get rid of this car, as soon as the dealer can get this faulty part to replace the old faulty part.

    Thanks for letting me vent. All of you who have had this problem surely understand.
  • jpvwaudijpvwaudi Member Posts: 139
    Is more than likely due to the gasoline we get at a discount here in the good ole US of A. We, those of us who depend on VWoA to make a living, are now being told that the coil pack problem is due to certain chemicals added to US Spec gasoline. Apparently these chemicals are causing the ignition to spark too early creating the kind of problem we are experiencing. Remember, this exactly the reason (chemicals in our fuel) that we don't have the luxury of choosing a Passat TDI or a Touareg V-10. Bear with us, and write your Congressman.
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    I'm having a hard time following the logic behind the statement that you are getting from the Head Office (VWoA). Are they saying that US premium fuel is causing this issue? They "recommend" premium and that's still igniting too soon? Crikey, if that's the case, then everyone running less than premium ought to be peeing their pants right about now!

    Maybe I don't understand the exact nature of the fault in these bad coils...but I'm under the impression that the insulation in the coil burns through, shorting the coil and causing it to no longer deliver spark to its spark plug. Is this not correct? If it is, then this has every telltale of a manufacturing error. The coil itself is not exposed within the combustion chamber, it's sitting on top of the spark plug.

    My "BS" detector just went off! And don't get me wrong, I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to what you have been told by VW. Without a much better explanation, I'm not buying it. Why don't the G models fail? You're in the business, how long has VW been using Coil Packs on their US exports? Specifically, what additive are we talking about?

    BTW, I got a '03 with the 1.8T with a June, '02 build date and have not had a failure yet, but I've got very low miles.
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    You've just been misdirected. The number is not actually visible, unless you remove the ignition wire from the coil pack. See this link for where the code is:

    http://members.cox.net/~bergs/passat/coil_pack.jpg

    However, there is another telltale. Pull the engine shroud. While standing in front of the car, look at the coil pack from the rear or windshield side. Then compare it to the first photo in this thread on Clubb5:

    http://clubb5.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=33587&page=1

    If yours looks like the one on the left (H), you have the style that seems to be failing at an abnormally high rate. If you have the one on the right, you have the new style (J). The styling is slightly different on the ribbing near the top. Hope this helps.
  • pkraddpkradd Member Posts: 358
    altair4,

    Thanks for the info. I'll check in the morning, I'm home with a cold and don't feel like doing it. I should add that my Passat is a 2001.5 built in April of that year. I have 18,000 trouble-free miles so far.
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    You might even have a "G" model from that period, like the pic that linked for jpvwaudi (the first shot). Hope you feel better. I'm fighting a cold myself, our 20 month old has one, and now I think we're about set to pass them around to each other.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    I am seriously confused about the FUD being spread about how inferior US gasoline causes coil packs to fail. that sounds like "an answer for every question within 5 seconds, no matter what it is," not anything that can be secured with data.

    you can put steam in the cylinders instead of gas and it ain't gonna stress the coil packs. the computer tells 'em when to fire. if the spark plug sparks and sinks the current, which depends on the ignition wire set and the plugs being in good shape, the job is done. you can crank a dead engine until the starter melts down and it isn't going to hurt the coil packs that there is no explosion in the cylinders.

    I repeat, under the present laws of physics on the third planet from the sun, there is nothing in a fuel/air mix that is going to affect the ignition coil. the argument has the gestalt of science only if you look at it with your glasses off and through a hangover.
  • vwhater1vwhater1 Member Posts: 3
    Thought all of you might want to know that when my dealer called me yesterday to let me know that my car was "ready", I started asking a lot of questions. I want to thank you all for helping to educate me on what questions to really ask.

     He told me with certainty that the parts put into production cars all last year are the same as in mine (purchased in July '02), Until VW finally went to different part as of--get this--January 1, 2003. So, all of us who are driving a 1.8T have these defective parts. I asked if any of the cars with the new Ignition coils would have reached the US market yet, and he said there would be no way that they are here yet. So, my ignition coils that were replaced in October and November(twice!), that we were told were the new coils, were in fact not the new coils, because those did not come available until 1/1/03. So, until he told me this yesterday, I thought I was done with the coils problem, since 4 would have been replaced by now. Four have in fact been replaced, but three were replaced with faulty coils. UNBELIEVABLE.

     But, I guess it explains why my car had to sit for two weeks at the dealer to get the part. I t only took them about 17 seconds to install the damn thing, but they couldn't get thier hands on it for TWO weeks.

    Can't wait to see what the attorney specializing in lemon law has to say about it. And if not, I'd like to see what Carmax has to offer....Do I hear any offers?
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    at least we now know about the alleged repaired coils. wonder what the identification is on the good ones.... the ones that probably aren't on anybody's shelves yet.

    be nice of VW to run a recall when they are sorta sure these coils have insulation on them.
  • jpvwaudijpvwaudi Member Posts: 139
    I should have placed a disclaimer in front of my earlier post.....I couldn't diagnose a flat tire....don't ask me for help on anything technical....what I was saying about US gas additives was quoted to me by a VW Technical guy....in his words..(with a very Hans Gruber-like accent) your fuel (they don't call it gas) is corrupted......
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    Remind Herr Gruber who won the war, LOL
  • maxima4maxima4 Member Posts: 74
    Coils gone bad, Bad Reputation at the dealers, Squeaks, rattles, 'nuf said!

    No Thanks!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    yeah, well Hans has just passed the Euro to somebody else. Maybe this cold everyone's catching is also fuel related.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    good old Hans, puttering all day with a little screwdriver and an eye loupe at $175/hour trying to replace a taillight bulb for some trusting customer, needs to learn something about how high voltage works. if you can sink the current pulses, the system should not melt down if it was properly designed and built. and whether you are running fuel, gasoline, steam, or cowflops through the atomizer in the injector and into the cylinder, as long as the plug sinks that 40,000 volt spark, it won't echo back and forth in the coil windings and build up higher voltages from self-inductance to break down the insulation.
  • nancystynancysty Member Posts: 2
    If anyone reads this is considering buying any VW product, especially a Passat -- don't! I'm stuck with a new car that's been in twice in a month for defective coils. The Jetta loaner car the dealer gave me wouldn't even start the next day. I'm in the processing of filing a formal complaint with VW & the NYS Attorney General's office. Bottom line -- I have a new car that no one wants to drive.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    bottom line is that some supplier screwed up, VW didn't catch it for too long, and it took even longer to (supposedly) redo the coil line so they can make two in a row that ought to last. the customers are really getting dumped on, and the dealers are caught in the crossfire. if it was me, I'd find another source for coils somehow and slap (four to eight) of 'em in... or carry a couple spare so I could keep driving until repair parts come in and they could swap the stinkers.

    I have got to believe that the aftermarket supply houses... parts plus, CSK, napa... have got a supplier that knows about the VW debacle and got another company to make knockoffs that work.

    since VWoA and dealers can't get enough coils to keep the customers on the road, don't know why there isn't a permission letter to put in something else and extend warranty over it as well, just to get on top of the situation before it eats them alive.

    even if they do have good coils coming off the line now, it's going to take years to get all the dreck out of the sold vehicles... and in that time, everybody will be learning to spit and moan when anybody asks about VW. I would think there's a lot of pressure out there, and they just ought to certify some other sources and turn 'em loose on the problem.

    got a guy in the office who took two Passats to the dealer over the weekend for coil failure... one was his daughter's and they treated her like something foul on the rug, one was his wife's and they've had eight cars from this dealer with a good rep in the area... and because of the daughter's car, the wife has been reviling the dealer over the phone all day, whenever she gets another idea and some breath back.

    this can't be good.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well THAT won't work very well. A dealer knows how to "revile back" very skillfully.

    The dealer is in a "bookend" here and you have to work with them, while very persistently keeping track of progress.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    a large part of the relationship I have with my ford dealer is based on discussion and knowing to some extent what is happening with the vehicle, so I don't just go in there and say "it's making THAT noise just like the dishwasher did before the light bulb went out in the garage." they haven't tried to screw me yet, and I haven't tried to send them to a gulag yet. that works for me.
  • spike27spike27 Member Posts: 2
    Has anyone filed a lawsuit? If so how is it going? Is there a class-action lawsuit against this obviously flawed car that is leaving us owners stranded? Unless something is done soon, I'd would like to sign-up.

    Currently my 2002 Passat is on its second visit to the dealer for another ignition coils. My dealer service dept. told me there are 35 Passats ahead of mine with coil problems on his lot, he has no idea when he will have new coils and last week got two coils to fix one car that had been there over two weeks. He told me another dealer he knows has over 50 Passats on their lot with fried ignition coils. I did make several requests that VW replace all the coils at once so I would not have to keep having my car towed in and being stuck in rather frigid temperatures of Chicago for two or more hours, waiting for a tow. On both occassions, VW could not supply me with a rental or loaner car until monday, which meant I had two weekends without any car at all. VW Customer Care suggested they might be willing to replace the remaining coils, but only from those who request it, so my suggestion to you is that you at least try and request that they replace the coils. Unfortunately, they would not give this to me in writing, stating legal concerns. Unless of course you don't mind not having a car from time to time. They have had a coil shortage for greater than a month and have not corrected the problem. Dealer stated they have 35 Passats on their lot with the problem and other dealers have 50. Customer care said they "understand" the problem. That said,by not replacing all the coils at once, they are doing little to find a long term solution to fix the problem. At minimum, I suggest you file a complaint with: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ and your better business bureau.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    got to wondering if there ARE any alternate sources... not at napa, csk/parts america, echlin, neihoff, JC Whitney. autozone search says a wells coil for 2002 passat is "not yet availiable," which I assume means they plan to make one, but have not done so yet. it could also mean nobody has updated the catalog and/or website also.

    if you look at a 2000 passat (have assumed a 4-popper in these searches,) there is a match... wells C1318, one per cylinder required, $86.99 each. they are special order.

    that's an option, assuming these special orders are being filled. if somehow these coils are reboxed for Wells by VW... well... back to square one.

    good luck.
  • blancobasinblancobasin Member Posts: 7
    I finally got my Passat SW back yesterday from the dealer in Cincinnati. It sat on his lot since 12/26. They replaced two coils. I wonder when the other two are going to go. I do not have to worry about going over the mileage with this lease. The car is always in the shop.
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