Okay, thanks kyfdx - I didn't know about the brake thing, so that makes sense. And I DO know about the need for rocking - I've had to do that myself in the mud on more than one occasion ...
Just drove home with my new 325i...my first new car purchase ever. Car has 4 year, 50,000 warranty. Would appreciate any suggestions/advice/feedback on whether or not to purchase the "maintainance upgrade" for $1495 which extends full maintainance coverage to 72 mths./100K miles.
I tend to take good care of my cars and it's garaged.
I live in Portland, Oregon...mild weather. Lots of rain, and it may snow 2-3 times a year. Anything else on the "A La Carte" menu worthwhile? Toughguard $850; Clear Mask $855; LoJack $795.
The list price on the maintenance upgrade is $995 (at least it was a few months ago for an '03 model)... So, just say no to that... You can buy it from any dealer, even over the phone...at any time before your original plan has expired... Wait and see..
Is it possible that the cost could increase that much for an '06 model? The sales pitch from them was that the cost would increase the longer that I waited.
Glad to see that you, unlike moi, can spell maintenance!
Had a question about negotiating the car price through fax/email with the *fleet manager*(according to the article about the disguised car salesguy.)
1. Should I fax my config and pricing to dealers or email them?
2. If I get a real low price (say invoice price) from one of the dealers but one who is not reputed for quality of service, can I bargain another dealer based on that price? If yes, how can I make the second dealer believe that I am getting the car for the invoice price? Should I show him the fax reply?
3. Should the entire dealing be done electronically? Or after getting the price I want from one of the dealers, I should visit his office personally for the paperwork?
4. Should the car mats etc. be negotiated right at the very beginning or later on?
I appreciate your comments....this forum is a fun to read
No.. I don't think the price could have gone up that much.. At the list price, there isn't a lot of profit, so dealers like to mark up the price..
Also, at this time, the price is the same whether you buy it when your car is brand new, or just before 50K miles... So, I think the sales pitch was just that.. a pitch..
That doesn't mean that couldn't change.. But, a lot can happen in four years... I would wait.
MACO is an advertising charge.. (I know the A stands for advertising..lol).
It is a real charge on the invoice, that most dealers pay... However, as blueguydotcom stated, it shouldn't be an extra charge that you pay over and above your negotiated price.. If you offer $XXX over invoice, then expect to see it as part of the invoice price... But, if you offer $3X,XXX for the car, it should never come up...
Aren't document fees restricted to $55 in California? I'm not sure, but I think it is something similar to that... nothing to worry about.
I'm lovin' that REST button. Great for running errands in cold temps. Get to where you're going, turn off the car and press the REST button. Go into the store, come out 15 minutes later and your car is as warm as when you parked it. This feature is also great when you have to wait for someone. Instead of sitting in a running car and wasting gas, just turn the car off and press REST.
I don't know if this is a new feature or not. First time for me to have it and I think it's terrific.
Also, the heated seats work very well. The start working quickly and they warm your back as well as your butt.
This car is a fast and quiet warmer-upper. Warms up faster and quieter than any car I have had. I'm talking about both the auto temp and the heated seats.
I'm a big fan of this option as well. Coupled with the Comfort Access (no fumbling for keys in rain/cold weather), it makes me want to get into the car quickly. I'm also a big fan of the locking mechanism that comes with the Comfor Access whereby you simply run your finger over the three "bumps" on the door handle and all doors lock as long as the key fob is on your person.
The new 3 is Automobile Magazine's 2006 car of the year.
Here's how the article starts out:
When we first drove the new 3-series, our reaction was simply: "How on earth does BMW keep doing this?" How does it keep building the best compact sport sedan in the world, a car that continues to get better and better with each evolution, when it would be so easy to, ahem, screw it up. In the process of not screwing it up, BMW has produced a car that is the gold standard for its class, something that all other automakers feel they have to measure up to. Yet, no matter how hard they try, they always come up short.
before i got the 330, i was so freakin happy. I read everything about it. I really wanted one, so i got one. But then when i got it i didnt feel any happier...until now. With everyday that passes by, i like my Bimmer more and more. Sometimes i would just stand in the garage and stare at it. what a car!!!
Well we got our annual 2 day Ice storm. And the City is out of business. Hundreds of accidents, they haven't got the concept of SLOW DOWN yet. Anyways I managed to muddle home ok about 20-25 mph. Even though the 45 series run flats are not ideal. Then came the problem. Getting up my 40-45 degree driveway. After 2 attempts I realized why my neighbor parked in the street tonite. Then i had a thought, how about I try the "Shipo Method" Back Up that sucker... I managed to get about across the side walk put it in park and set the parking brake and began sliding down...No Dice. Hopefully no one will crash it in the street tonite. I don't envy yall that have to put up with this more than a few times a year.
That sounds nice--I haven't gotten to use the rest button yet. It turns on for about 15 seconds then kicks off, as does the radio.
Something's causing it to go into some sort of low-battery condition and shut off all the accessories when the engine's not running--even if I've driven it for an hour or more beforehand. Two trips to dealers and no fix yet. Other than that, which can be filed under "typical Euro electrical gremlins," it's a great car!
I have not posted here before, but have been reading the posts on this forum and a few others since October. I have have enjoyed and learned a lot from your posts, particularly those of a few of you who offer your insights day after day (you know who you are). So, let me thank all of you.
I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on an '06 330i. Here's what I've decided for sure:
2006 330i Manual Transmission Cold Weather Package Sparkling Graphite Exterior Black Leatherette/Aluminum Interior Sirius Sat. Radio
I've been agonizing for the better part of two months about whether to get the sport package, and I'm hoping for insights from those of you with and without Sport about your decisions.
I have driven 2006 330's and 325's (2 of each) at the dealer with and without Sport, and didn't notice a lot of difference in the drive, frankly. Now, that was in mid-October, and I definitely need to drive them both again to remind myself and reevaluate. It was also with the salesman in the car, on urban streets, so the circumstances didn't really bring out the differences too much. More recently, I've driven my buddy's '04 330 with manual and sport. I drove it pretty aggressively, on twisty roads, for a couple of hours, and found that it sticks to corners like a dream. I mean, it's almost unbelievable how well it corners; it seems to defy physics. But I did notice, especially at slower speeds (in traffic, parking lots, etc.), it is quite stiff and bumpy. Unfortunately, I didn't have a non-sport version to compare it to under similar conditions.
The other factors weighing on me, pro and con, are as follows:
Pros (none of which are available as stand-alone options without getting the sport package): 1. Sport Seats. The sport seats are, in my opinion, almost worth the price of the sport package alone. I just love that secure, contained feel (might be Freudian), especially when pushing hard on on twisty roads and sharp curving onramps and offramps. 2. Sport Steering wheel. 3. The 18-inch Sport Wheels.
Cons: 1. The rougher ride. It's certainly not a huge negative, and it's a small price to pay for the improved cornering. I'm OK with it, and my wife and kids will rarely ride in the car (I just got her a 2005 Odyssey, which she loves, and which holds the whole group and all of the carseats and strollers and other accessories that go with little kids). 2. The low profile tires issue. The warnings by the salesman while I did the test drives, and the footnoted warnings in the '06 brochure thing about how easy it is to damage the tires, wheels and suspension on rough roads, which I occasionally drive on, have me thinking it's just too fragile a setup. And I hate when you pull into a parking lot and have to slow down to 1 mph and grimace because you're afraid you're going to scrape the front end anyways if it's a severe angle, because the car sits a little lower. 3. The Summer "Performance" tires issue. I've read here that the summer tires are essentially useless in snow. I live in the San Francisco bay area, but go up to the foothills below Lake Tahoe (~2,000 - 3,000 feet) maybe 6-8 times/year, and would expect to encounter very light snow once a year or so on average. So, it will rarely be an issue, but I really would prefer all season tires. Is it also an issue in heavy rain? It rains unbelievably hard here often. 4. The cost. I know it's only $1,455 (invoice) on a car in the $35k-$40k range, but it's something.
Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, advice?
Sorry about the ridiculously long post, but I just can't seem to make a decision on this. And I’ll be driving my Honda Accord instead of my new BMW until I can decide. So, I need to do something quickly – life is short.
For what it's worth, I ordered my '04 325i as a custom order instead of off-the-lot (the only way to get everything that you really want). The dealers always order cars with "packages", but, for the E46 at least, there were a number of individual options that were in the book. One of these was the sport seats. So I have a 325i without the sport package, but with the sport seats. If you're willing to wait a while for your car, ask your dealer about the full range of options.
BTW, my main objection to the sport package were the performance tires that I would have to replace in the winter around here.
Good luck to you, whatever you decide. I like your color choices. Same as mine. Sparkling graphite, black interior, aluminum trim. Very sharp and sporty combination. :shades:
Sport or non-Sport is ultimately a very personal decision and you should decide for yourself after driving both versions (again). :confuse:
I have a 330i without Sports Package. I felt that I had to draw a line somewhere on the options, as the car was already north of $40K and Sports Package is a costly option at $1,600 or so. I came to view the Sports Package as, dare I say it, overkill. To me, the car already looks great and handles superbly, without the Sports Package. I have no doubt that the Sport has even better handling than the non-Sport, but I couldn't appreciate the difference in my brief test drive. I did, however, detect a somewhat harsher ride. I liked the seats and steering wheel. I liked the look of the larger wheels and performance tires, but I had concerns about those tires (wear out faster, costlier to replace, useless in snow, etc.).
I have no regrets. That said, I'd welcome the opportunity to spend some real time behind the wheel of a Sport version. Only then would I know for sure what kind of difference it makes to me.
In 1998 I test drove two early E46s, one with SP, one without. I wound up with a very early production 1999 328i, non-SP. A couple of years later Brave1Heart of the 3-Series (2005 and earlier) discussion and One Lap of America fame and I swapped cars for a day and a half. He had a 2001 325i SP equipped very similarly to my 328i so that I could re-experience the SP and so that he could re-experience driving the car with more power.
Given that we had both learned to wring the most out of our cars by that time, I was absolutely delighted with the added handling offered by the SP setup, and very under whelmed by the "nearly as powerful" engine in the 325i. Brave on the other hand was very under whelmed by the suspension and tire setup on my 328i, however, he posted something to the effect that "The extra torque of the 328i could be addictive." I guess that's why my rear tires were so much further gone than my fronts on that car when I traded up to the 530i, with SP needless to say.
The thing is that now on the E90 one cannot order the SP without getting a staggered wheel/tire setup, which is something that I would not want on any car. "Not want staggered tire sizes? Why not?", you say. Well, it is my opinion (and my opinion only) that the stagger was put in place by BMW for two reasons, 1) to reduce/eliminate throttle induced oversteer, and 2) because many buyers think it's "Cool". My take is that for those of us who actually like being able to steer the car with the gas pedal, the staggered setup is actually a detriment to the cars' handling abilities, and due to the stagger itself, the tires cannot be rotated. I know, I know, BMW does not recommend rotating your tires. Yeah? Well, too bad for them. The non-staggered SP tires that I had on my 530i had gotten so loud and noisy by 12K miles that I was nearly forced to buy new tires, even though there was plenty of usable tread left on the factory set. Instead I rotated them and instantly noticed two things, 1) the noise went away, and 2) whatever handling capabilities that I lost (if any) were only able to be explored on a race track (and I don't track my car).
So, with all of that being said, if I was to order a new E90 with the SP (highly likely if I do in fact order a car), I will most probably drive the factory set of tires until they either get too noisy and/or until there is only about 5mm of tread left (just above the replacement minimum for the return of a lease car), and then buy a complete new set of same sized wheels and non-RunFlat tires (and a can of tire goo). Hmmm, since the factory rubber on a 330i SP is 225/40 R18 on the front and 255/35 R18 on the rear, I'd probably be inclined to order four 17x8 BBS RZ wheels and four 235/45 R17 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s to shoe them with (this package is currently available at TireRack for about $1,600 with shipping, only about $500 more than a new set of OEM Run-Flat rubber).
I intend to revisit the SP decision next time around - about 2.5 years from now. Before then, I hope to have an opportunity (as you did) to get some quality time behind the wheel of someone else's SP.
This time around (my first BMW) I balked at the $1,600 ante for SP. I say "ante" because I now realize that with SP there are also additional costs (as compared to non-SP) during the ownership of the car. Winter wheels/tires are a must, depending on where you live. (Turns out I ended up going that route anyway, even though my car came with all-season tires.) The non-rotatable staggered size performance tires will wear out much sooner than the rotatable same size all-season tires. Also, it will cost more to replace 18s than 17s.
That post of mine wasn't directed at you, we all know that you'll pop for the SP next time around. ;-) Rather it was there as kind of a fount of information regarding some of the side issues of getting the SP. Personally I think BMW would do well to take a peek over Audi's shoulder and notice that the SP (on some cars) can be had with two different types of rubber and the choice of a few different wheel styles.
Were it me, I would offer the SP package and then ala-cart the wheels and the rubber, allowing you to pick from say three different wheels (with a one sized 17", a one sized 18" and a staggered 18" option), and either summer or all-season tires of the appropriate size.
Were it me, I would offer the SP package and then ala-cart the wheels and the rubber, allowing you to pick from say three different wheels (with a one sized 17", a one sized 18" and a staggered 18" option), and either summer or all-season tires of the appropriate size.
Sounds good. More choices the better. But then someone would have to start a new forum dedicated to tires and wheels.
Isn't the E90 suspension tuned at the factory to soften the harsher ride of run-flat tires? If you're planning on replacing the run-flats with conventional tires, I'd avoid the SP and go to the aftermarket for suspension tuning.
The dealers always order cars with "packages", but, for the E46 at least, there were a number of individual options that were in the book. One of these was the sport seats. So I have a 325i without the sport package, but with the sport seats. If you're willing to wait a while for your car, ask your dealer about the full range of options.
Thanks for the suggestion, but it’s my understanding – from the BMW brochures, Edmunds info and other posts here – that you cannot get the Sport seats in a 2006 325i/330i without getting the SP. By all means, if I’m misinformed about that, somebody please let me know.
But you’re right that it’s worth at least talking to the dealer about it; maybe they would switch them at the dealer or do something else to get it done.
When I set out a couple of months ago to learn all about these cars to make an informed purchase, I went back and read about 3-4 months worth of posts in this forum. There was a post several months ago from a guy who wanted the 330i Sport wheels, but not the Sport seats or steering wheel. He tried to order the car with only the Sport wheels, but was told that they came only as a package. I seriously considered contacting him to find out whether he wanted to do a trade with me once I ordered my car without the Sport package – I would take his SP seats, and he would take my standard seats. Ultimately, I decided it would be too much of a hassle (he was in the Midwest, as I recall, and I’m in California). Maybe I should reconsider . . .
To me, the car already looks great and handles superbly, without the Sports Package. I have no doubt that the Sport has even better handling than the non-Sport, but I couldn't appreciate the difference in my brief test drive. I did, however, detect a somewhat harsher ride. I liked the seats and steering wheel. I liked the look of the larger wheels and performance tires, but I had concerns about those tires (wear out faster, costlier to replace, useless in snow, etc.).
I have no regrets.
It sounds like you went through much of the same thought process I’m going through; and you obviously have good taste in colors, etc. Your opinion – and the fact that you have no regrets, despite many of the same concerns – is exactly the kind of response I was hoping to get. And I hadn't even considered the additional costs, in terms of replacing the larger and costlier 18 inch tires down the road.
One possible solution I thought of, if I did get the SP, was to replace the low profile summer “performance” tires (once they wore out the first time, I guess) with all season tires that were not “low profile,” since the susceptibility to damage as a result of the low profile of the tires is one of my other major concerns. But then it occurred to me that, because of the larger diameter of the 18” SP wheels, you probably have to replace those tires with other low-profile tires. Otherwise, the larger outside diameter of the tires might rub against the wheel wells.
Shipo, thanks for your thoughtful, comprehensive post about the SP v. Non-SP issue. At the risk of oversimplifying, it sounds like you’re firmly in the SP camp, other than your reservations about the staggered size of the wheels. No?
Any thoughts about the low profile tires issue and the fact that the car sits a bit lower? The warnings by the salesman and in the e90 brochure about how easy it is to damage the tires, wheels and suspension on rough roads have me thinking it's very fragile, and likely to scrape when pulling into driveways, etc.
Also, how do the summer performance tires handle in heavy rain?
so it doesnt hurt the tranny or anything if u shift rite?? i was just worried cus it jerks when u shift to 1st...
another question- anybody knows how to turn on the Driveaway locking feature?? took mine in for software "update" a month ago. From what i understand you push the turn signal button and scroll it up and down til you get a key icon. i found a key icon but it only allows me to set MPG, KMG, KM or something like that...thanks in advance
I usually go to first, depending on the situation. Of course, all the cars I've owned have been five speeds. With the gear ranges on the 3 series, though, since there are 6 gears and the ranges are narrower, maybe it's just too low to make sense to do that.
No, you definitely cannot get the sport seats as a stand-alone option. However, you can order them from your BMW parts department for something like $3000+.... Not worth it, IMO. Is it worth it to you?
Well well Edmunds is finally back up ! Any case since I had the same thoughts I bought set of 225/45/17 330I wheels for a song on ebay. If you were so inclined you may be able to locate(2) 225/40/18 style 162 wheels and then be "rotate able" I have yet to sell my OEM wheels/tires thinking I may reinstall them at time of sell or sell them to someone who would like some OEM for snows ect.. In any case a win win.
On another note I finally received the oil analysis kit from Blackstone. I am wondering how accurate now the test will be as I had to add a quart a while back.
I hate to say it, but I don't even know what that is . . . . I haven't actually bought my BMW yet.
I have just been spending an awful lot of my time and energy looking at every angle, obsessing over every option, and reading these forums . . . . And I just emailed offers to a large number of dealers in my area (SF bay). As I have gained much from the generosity of those dispensing their free advice here, I plan to share whatever information I get here.
I'm curious what folks here think about the visibility of the E90. I got mine 7 weeks ago and love it except for driving at night on busy freeways. I'm having difficulty judging where cars are around me as the dimming feature makes it hard to even see cars in your mirrors (for me). And, I think overall visibility is poor regardless - lots of blind spots - at least for now.. I'm hoping to eventually get used to it.
I don't think the September software update allows you to manually select the driveaway locking feature on a non-iDrive car. The dealer can enable it on their computer, but it would require another trip to the dealer to disable it.
Also, the driveaway locking feature only locks the doors for you. It does not unlock them. When you shut off the car, you must either hit the unlock button to unlock all the doors, or pull the door handle twice to unlock and open a single door.
Hello. I have been reading this board for some time, and really appreciated all the information posted here. I am surprised that BMW 325i has the sunroof as standard equipment, but comes with manual-adjust "leatherette" seats. To get leather power seats, one will need to shell out another $2,640 for the premium package, which seems quite high. (I know you can get it as separate options, but the prices do not make sense to do so.) For those owners who have the leatherette seats, would you share your experience? What's the feel? How does the material compare with real leather, fabric, or vinyl? Is the driver's seat easy to adjust? Does these seats make the car less luxury feeling? Do you think you should have upgraded?
"I am surprised that BMW 325i has the sunroof as standard equipment, but comes with manual-adjust "leatherette" seats."
Don't know what's so surprising about that. I guess BMW felt they could push more product if they included a moonroof. On the other hand, they were probably thinking that power leather seats would push them out of the market. I, for one, balked at the premium charged for the leather when I purchased my E46, but I was willing to spring for the power seats (but didn't get them anyway).
"For those owners who have the leatherette seats, would you share your experience? What's the feel? How does the material compare with real leather, fabric, or vinyl?"
Okay, this describes me. The 'ette feels good. It's much better than the vinyl in your dad's Pontiac, but as far as comparing it to real leather: I thought the leather was nicer, but not 'nicer' enough to me to justify the price difference. You might decide otherwise, so I would advise that you go down to your nearest BMW dealer and sit in both and decide for yourself if the difference in feel is worth the extra money. That's what I did.
Ditto twice. Many people will have some difficulty distinguishing between the "leatherette" and genuine leather. It is discernible, but only with careful observation. I lived with leatherette for four years on an earlier Bimmer, and frankly thought it held up to normal wear better than the leather in most cars. Also, a damp cloth is all the cleaner you need, saving a bit of time and money over the leather. A caveat: the leatherette will not provide that marvelous leather smell when the car is new.
I'II third that the 'ette seems to wear better and looks great. Everyone pretty much thinks I sprung for the leather and I'm not tell them anything different :shades: I would say that all things considered, the 'ette is the way to go..
Comments
Okay, thanks kyfdx - I didn't know about the brake thing, so that makes sense. And I DO know about the need for rocking - I've had to do that myself in the mud on more than one occasion ...
I tend to take good care of my cars and it's garaged.
I live in Portland, Oregon...mild weather. Lots of rain, and it may snow 2-3 times a year. Anything else on the "A La Carte" menu worthwhile? Toughguard $850; Clear Mask $855; LoJack $795.
Thank you in advance.
As to the other items? No, No, and.... No.
Just my $0.02
kyfdx
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Is it possible that the cost could increase that much for an '06 model? The sales pitch from them was that the cost would increase the longer that I waited.
Glad to see that you, unlike moi, can spell maintenance!
I want to know what all charges do I need to pay for, other than TTL?
On the forum I heard a few:
1. MACO (if yes, does anyone know how much it is in Los Angeles California?)
2. Documentation fees?
thanks!
1. Should I fax my config and pricing to dealers or email them?
2. If I get a real low price (say invoice price) from one of the dealers but one who is not reputed for quality of service, can I bargain another dealer based on that price? If yes, how can I make the second dealer believe that I am getting the car for the invoice price?
Should I show him the fax reply?
3. Should the entire dealing be done electronically? Or after getting the price I want from one of the dealers, I should visit his office personally for the paperwork?
4. Should the car mats etc. be negotiated right at the very beginning or later on?
I appreciate your comments....this forum is a fun to read
(The trojan is waiting for the Rose bowl now!)
and what abt documentation fees? Are those real fees or just another way dealers make money?
Also, at this time, the price is the same whether you buy it when your car is brand new, or just before 50K miles... So, I think the sales pitch was just that.. a pitch..
That doesn't mean that couldn't change.. But, a lot can happen in four years... I would wait.
regards,
kyfdx
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It is a real charge on the invoice, that most dealers pay... However, as blueguydotcom stated, it shouldn't be an extra charge that you pay over and above your negotiated price.. If you offer $XXX over invoice, then expect to see it as part of the invoice price... But, if you offer $3X,XXX for the car, it should never come up...
Aren't document fees restricted to $55 in California? I'm not sure, but I think it is something similar to that... nothing to worry about.
regards,
kyfdx
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I don't know if this is a new feature or not. First time for me to have it and I think it's terrific.
Also, the heated seats work very well. The start working quickly and they warm your back as well as your butt.
This car is a fast and quiet warmer-upper. Warms up faster and quieter than any car I have had. I'm talking about both the auto temp and the heated seats.
Here's how the article starts out:
When we first drove the new 3-series, our reaction was simply: "How on earth does BMW keep doing this?" How does it keep building the best compact sport sedan in the world, a car that continues to get better and better with each evolution, when it would be so easy to, ahem, screw it up. In the process of not screwing it up, BMW has produced a car that is the gold standard for its class, something that all other automakers feel they have to measure up to. Yet, no matter how hard they try, they always come up short.
...just thought it was weird...
DL
Something's causing it to go into some sort of low-battery condition and shut off all the accessories when the engine's not running--even if I've driven it for an hour or more beforehand. Two trips to dealers and no fix yet. Other than that, which can be filed under "typical Euro electrical gremlins," it's a great car!
I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on an '06 330i. Here's what I've decided for sure:
2006 330i
Manual Transmission
Cold Weather Package
Sparkling Graphite Exterior
Black Leatherette/Aluminum Interior
Sirius Sat. Radio
I've been agonizing for the better part of two months about whether to get the sport package, and I'm hoping for insights from those of you with and without Sport about your decisions.
I have driven 2006 330's and 325's (2 of each) at the dealer with and without Sport, and didn't notice a lot of difference in the drive, frankly. Now, that was in mid-October, and I definitely need to drive them both again to remind myself and reevaluate. It was also with the salesman in the car, on urban streets, so the circumstances didn't really bring out the differences too much. More recently, I've driven my buddy's '04 330 with manual and sport. I drove it pretty aggressively, on twisty roads, for a couple of hours, and found that it sticks to corners like a dream. I mean, it's almost unbelievable how well it corners; it seems to defy physics. But I did notice, especially at slower speeds (in traffic, parking lots, etc.), it is quite stiff and bumpy. Unfortunately, I didn't have a non-sport version to compare it to under similar conditions.
The other factors weighing on me, pro and con, are as follows:
Pros (none of which are available as stand-alone options without getting the sport package):
1. Sport Seats. The sport seats are, in my opinion, almost worth the price of the sport package alone. I just love that secure, contained feel (might be Freudian), especially when pushing hard on on twisty roads and sharp curving onramps and offramps.
2. Sport Steering wheel.
3. The 18-inch Sport Wheels.
Cons:
1. The rougher ride. It's certainly not a huge negative, and it's a small price to pay for the improved cornering. I'm OK with it, and my wife and kids will rarely ride in the car (I just got her a 2005 Odyssey, which she loves, and which holds the whole group and all of the carseats and strollers and other accessories that go with little kids).
2. The low profile tires issue. The warnings by the salesman while I did the test drives, and the footnoted warnings in the '06 brochure thing about how easy it is to damage the tires, wheels and suspension on rough roads, which I occasionally drive on, have me thinking it's just too fragile a setup. And I hate when you pull into a parking lot and have to slow down to 1 mph and grimace because you're afraid you're going to scrape the front end anyways if it's a severe angle, because the car sits a little lower.
3. The Summer "Performance" tires issue. I've read here that the summer tires are essentially useless in snow. I live in the San Francisco bay area, but go up to the foothills below Lake Tahoe (~2,000 - 3,000 feet) maybe 6-8 times/year, and would expect to encounter very light snow once a year or so on average. So, it will rarely be an issue, but I really would prefer all season tires. Is it also an issue in heavy rain? It rains unbelievably hard here often.
4. The cost. I know it's only $1,455 (invoice) on a car in the $35k-$40k range, but it's something.
Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, advice?
Sorry about the ridiculously long post, but I just can't seem to make a decision on this. And I’ll be driving my Honda Accord instead of my new BMW until I can decide. So, I need to do something quickly – life is short.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Jim
BTW, my main objection to the sport package were the performance tires that I would have to replace in the winter around here.
Good luck to you, whatever you decide. I like your color choices. Same as mine. Sparkling graphite, black interior, aluminum trim. Very sharp and sporty combination. :shades:
Sport or non-Sport is ultimately a very personal decision and you should decide for yourself after driving both versions (again). :confuse:
I have a 330i without Sports Package. I felt that I had to draw a line somewhere on the options, as the car was already north of $40K and Sports Package is a costly option at $1,600 or so. I came to view the Sports Package as, dare I say it, overkill. To me, the car already looks great and handles superbly, without the Sports Package. I have no doubt that the Sport has even better handling than the non-Sport, but I couldn't appreciate the difference in my brief test drive. I did, however, detect a somewhat harsher ride. I liked the seats and steering wheel. I liked the look of the larger wheels and performance tires, but I had concerns about those tires (wear out faster, costlier to replace, useless in snow, etc.).
I have no regrets.
David D
Given that we had both learned to wring the most out of our cars by that time, I was absolutely delighted with the added handling offered by the SP setup, and very under whelmed by the "nearly as powerful" engine in the 325i. Brave on the other hand was very under whelmed by the suspension and tire setup on my 328i, however, he posted something to the effect that "The extra torque of the 328i could be addictive." I guess that's why my rear tires were so much further gone than my fronts on that car when I traded up to the 530i, with SP needless to say.
The thing is that now on the E90 one cannot order the SP without getting a staggered wheel/tire setup, which is something that I would not want on any car. "Not want staggered tire sizes? Why not?", you say. Well, it is my opinion (and my opinion only) that the stagger was put in place by BMW for two reasons, 1) to reduce/eliminate throttle induced oversteer, and 2) because many buyers think it's "Cool". My take is that for those of us who actually like being able to steer the car with the gas pedal, the staggered setup is actually a detriment to the cars' handling abilities, and due to the stagger itself, the tires cannot be rotated. I know, I know, BMW does not recommend rotating your tires. Yeah? Well, too bad for them. The non-staggered SP tires that I had on my 530i had gotten so loud and noisy by 12K miles that I was nearly forced to buy new tires, even though there was plenty of usable tread left on the factory set. Instead I rotated them and instantly noticed two things, 1) the noise went away, and 2) whatever handling capabilities that I lost (if any) were only able to be explored on a race track (and I don't track my car).
So, with all of that being said, if I was to order a new E90 with the SP (highly likely if I do in fact order a car), I will most probably drive the factory set of tires until they either get too noisy and/or until there is only about 5mm of tread left (just above the replacement minimum for the return of a lease car), and then buy a complete new set of same sized wheels and non-RunFlat tires (and a can of tire goo). Hmmm, since the factory rubber on a 330i SP is 225/40 R18 on the front and 255/35 R18 on the rear, I'd probably be inclined to order four 17x8 BBS RZ wheels and four 235/45 R17 Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s to shoe them with (this package is currently available at TireRack for about $1,600 with shipping, only about $500 more than a new set of OEM Run-Flat rubber).
Best Regards,
Shipo
I intend to revisit the SP decision next time around - about 2.5 years from now. Before then, I hope to have an opportunity (as you did) to get some quality time behind the wheel of someone else's SP.
This time around (my first BMW) I balked at the $1,600 ante for SP. I say "ante" because I now realize that with SP there are also additional costs (as compared to non-SP) during the ownership of the car. Winter wheels/tires are a must, depending on where you live. (Turns out I ended up going that route anyway, even though my car came with all-season tires.) The non-rotatable staggered size performance tires will wear out much sooner than the rotatable same size all-season tires. Also, it will cost more to replace 18s than 17s.
Regards,
David D
Were it me, I would offer the SP package and then ala-cart the wheels and the rubber, allowing you to pick from say three different wheels (with a one sized 17", a one sized 18" and a staggered 18" option), and either summer or all-season tires of the appropriate size.
Best Regards,
Shipo
2. How much is the tire insurance? What does it cover?
3. If I want 325i without SP but with 17" tires, how much will I have to pay?
Thanks
Sounds good. More choices the better. But then someone would have to start a new forum dedicated to tires and wheels.
Thanks for the suggestion, but it’s my understanding – from the BMW brochures, Edmunds info and other posts here – that you cannot get the Sport seats in a 2006 325i/330i without getting the SP. By all means, if I’m misinformed about that, somebody please let me know.
But you’re right that it’s worth at least talking to the dealer about it; maybe they would switch them at the dealer or do something else to get it done.
When I set out a couple of months ago to learn all about these cars to make an informed purchase, I went back and read about 3-4 months worth of posts in this forum. There was a post several months ago from a guy who wanted the 330i Sport wheels, but not the Sport seats or steering wheel. He tried to order the car with only the Sport wheels, but was told that they came only as a package. I seriously considered contacting him to find out whether he wanted to do a trade with me once I ordered my car without the Sport package – I would take his SP seats, and he would take my standard seats. Ultimately, I decided it would be too much of a hassle (he was in the Midwest, as I recall, and I’m in California). Maybe I should reconsider . . .
Jim
I have no regrets.
It sounds like you went through much of the same thought process I’m going through; and you obviously have good taste in colors, etc.
One possible solution I thought of, if I did get the SP, was to replace the low profile summer “performance” tires (once they wore out the first time, I guess) with all season tires that were not “low profile,” since the susceptibility to damage as a result of the low profile of the tires is one of my other major concerns. But then it occurred to me that, because of the larger diameter of the 18” SP wheels, you probably have to replace those tires with other low-profile tires. Otherwise, the larger outside diameter of the tires might rub against the wheel wells.
Anyways, thanks for your input.
Jim
Any thoughts about the low profile tires issue and the fact that the car sits a bit lower? The warnings by the salesman and in the e90 brochure about how easy it is to damage the tires, wheels and suspension on rough roads have me thinking it's very fragile, and likely to scrape when pulling into driveways, etc.
Also, how do the summer performance tires handle in heavy rain?
Jim
I like to stay in the 2nd until I have completed stopped (so that I dont get the jerk of a gear shift) and then shift down to 1st.
another question- anybody knows how to turn on the Driveaway locking feature?? took mine in for software "update" a month ago. From what i understand you push the turn signal button and scroll it up and down til you get a key icon. i found a key icon but it only allows me to set MPG, KMG, KM or something like that...thanks in advance
Jim
$300 - Definitely.
$3,000 - Definitely not.
Jim
On another note I finally received the oil analysis kit from Blackstone. I am wondering how accurate now the test will be as I had to add a quart a while back.
DL
I have just been spending an awful lot of my time and energy looking at every angle, obsessing over every option, and reading these forums . . . . And I just emailed offers to a large number of dealers in my area (SF bay). As I have gained much from the generosity of those dispensing their free advice here, I plan to share whatever information I get here.
Jim
Just curious what others in the forum think?
Jeff
Also, the driveaway locking feature only locks the doors for you. It does not unlock them. When you shut off the car, you must either hit the unlock button to unlock all the doors, or pull the door handle twice to unlock and open a single door.
Thanks for your input.
Don't know what's so surprising about that. I guess BMW felt they could push more product if they included a moonroof. On the other hand, they were probably thinking that power leather seats would push them out of the market. I, for one, balked at the premium charged for the leather when I purchased my E46, but I was willing to spring for the power seats (but didn't get them anyway).
"For those owners who have the leatherette seats, would you share your experience? What's the feel? How does the material compare with real leather, fabric, or vinyl?"
Okay, this describes me. The 'ette feels good. It's much better than the vinyl in your dad's Pontiac, but as far as comparing it to real leather: I thought the leather was nicer, but not 'nicer' enough to me to justify the price difference. You might decide otherwise, so I would advise that you go down to your nearest BMW dealer and sit in both and decide for yourself if the difference in feel is worth the extra money. That's what I did.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Ditto. If the only choices were cloth or leather, I'd probably spring for the leather.
Bryncerdd
the 'ette seems to wear better and looks great. Everyone pretty much thinks I sprung for the leather and I'm not tell them anything different :shades:
I would say that all things considered, the 'ette is the way to go..