VW Passat TDI

gagrice · July 2004

Maybe you should drive one, they say you can drive it like a stick. I don't think they will bring the manual into the USA. Everyone thinks we are shiftless over here.

dudleyr · July 2004

It may drive fine (for an automatic), but it is the principle. Kinda like a Corvette with skinny non-rated tires, a Hummer with 2wd, a minivan that seats 4, etc. etc.

The Jetta/Golf loose EPA 6/3 mpg (city/highway) in automatic form, and last year they lost 8/4.

I would think VW would introduce the manual if for no other reason than bragging rights / advertising.

todd53 · July 2004

I understand your position on the unavailability of a manual transmission in the new Passat. However, the automatic is not without its fan base too. After driving our manual-equipped 1998 Jetta TDI 110,000 miles in a daily commute with plenty of stop-and-go traffic, my wife welcomed the automatic Passat with open arms. We're averaging 35-36 MPG in mixed (albeit mostly highway) driving. And the steptronic works great, even better than the "manu-matic" in our Acura 3.2TL. I agree that VW should definitely offer a manual, but the automatic is perfect for us.

lyngoy · July 2004

The reason why the TDI and similar technology is so popular in Europe is not merely because of the low consumption. With many countries having taxes on engine-volume and horsepower output the diesels with a relatively high output for its size provide a more affordable alternative to gasoline-engines.

From reading a few of the posted messages it seems like the Passat as it is sold in America comes with less options than in Europe.
The biggest drawback that was mentioned in this test was that the 2.0 TDI was a little weak for the wagon. However in Europe the Passat also comes with 2.5L V6 TDI with an output of 180hp. (the used ones should have hit the marked by now) As for transmissions it is normally fitted with either a 5 or an optional 6-speed manual. The tiptronic (5speed automatic with optional manual mode) is a great choice for the passat but it also comes with a more traditional 4-speed automatic. Personally I've driven a passat TDI with tiptronic for three years and just loved it. The biggest drawback however is a noticeable difference in power compared to the manual. The tiptronic adds something like 1.5 sec on 0-60.

For you that were unable to find a manual, go and see an import-dealer. The Passat is one of the most popular cars in Europe. Getting a barely used 2004 model from Europe shouldn't be any problem. In fact there's so many of them, you could probably pick engine, color, mileage, and optionals, almost like a new car.

It's also worth mentioning that the 2005-model of the Passat will be a completely new car. One can therefore expect prices on the 2004-model to be dropping towards the end of this year. VW is currently building their brand with plans of closing the "prestige-gap" between brands such as mercedes and BMW. The 2005-model will therefore have little more in common with the 2004 than its name.

gagrice · July 2004

Thank you for all the info. Do you know if VW offers the same service that MB offers on buying in Europe and shipping to the States? Or do you think we would do better coming over finding a used car and buying and bringing it back? Would the best prices be found in Germany?

jrct9454 · July 2004

Better take a step back, here. You just don't buy a EU-spec car and bring it back to the US. It has to meet USA and local safety and smog specs, and has to be certified to do so. In the case of models not already sold here [any combination of engine and transmission not already certified in the USA], this can be an expensive and/or very difficult proposition.

VW discontinued their EU delivery program for US customers. I can speculate on why, but at least some of it has to do with the fact that so much of what they sell in North America these days is NOT made in Europe [all Jetta sedans, all Golfs, all Beetles are sourced from non-EU plants]. In any case, unlike Saab, Volvo, BMW and Mercedes, there is no longer an official overseas delivery program for retail American customers from VW.

sebring95 · July 2004

I agree, you don't want to go there. The US delivery thing works for those brands that offer it, but only on models that are destined for the states to begin with. To bring a non-us spec car into the states can be a nightmare. Those euro diesels do not meet our emissions standards and require diesel that to this point doesn't exist but in very small quantities. A lot of other changes would have to take place as well (lighting, safety features, etc.). You'be be further ahead to modify a US car and transplant the EU diesel engine/tranny. As I mentioned before, there is a guy that did just that; transplanted a 2.8L V6 TDI/six-speed into a US Passat 4Motion. Slick car, but expensive and good luck getting someone to work on the thing. All parts have to be imported and dealers probably woudln't touch it.

gagrice · July 2004

Thanks gentlemen. I remember friends years ago going to Europe and bringing back all kinds of cars. Then I remember Bill Gates trying to get his $900,000 Porsche off the dock. I am not into doing engine swaps either. Did that too many times as a kid. My vehicles all run fine, hopefully the ULSD will become standard diesel in 2006 and CARB will lighten up their ignorant, inconsistent restrictions.

schipperke · July 2004

The review is not impressed with the wagon, any wagon owners out there please post your impressions. The wagon weighs in about 100LBS heavier, how can this really degrade performance so much to write the sedan is more than adequate (with the TDI) but the wagon is barely passable?

gagrice · July 2004

At least 3 owners of Passsat Wagons with TDI have posted reviews here on Edmund's. They are claiming 40-44 MPG which I think is well worth thinking about. They also gave the TDI version an overall 9.4 rating. Most auto mag writers are wannabe race car drivers. You have to take that into consideration when reading these articles. Who cares if it goes 0-60 in 9.0 or 8.5 seconds? I want to know how it drives out on the little two lane roads that meander all over this land. And on the freeways at 70+ miles per hour.

pat · July 2004

Edmunds has posted a "First Drive" of the 2004 TDI Passat - you can read it via the Helpful Links box on the left side of the page.

anchor5072 · July 2004

I have had a TDI Wagon since May and have put about 6,000 miles on it, both in commuting around the Washington DC area and interstate driving between Northern Virginia and the Shenandoah Valley. My mileage has actually improved since I got the Wagon and it now running between 38-40 MPG (per tank), even though I do allot of stop and go driving during the week. The TDI handles well whether on the Interstate, in traffic or motoring around the back roads in the valley. It passes with authority and it cruises along at 80 MPH quite easily. I read the article and do not agree with the assessment of the TDI Wagon. The sedan maybe a dream, but the Wagon is excellent and I am very happy I got one, especially when I do my weekly fill-up at the Gas (Diesel) Station.

gagrice · July 2004

Your assessment of the Passat Wagon TDI follows along with the other owners that have reviewed here on Edmund's. It sounds like a great little car. Are you able to find BP ECD-1 ULSD in your area. I am wondering if it makes much difference in performance. I have it available to me in San Diego and would love to own a Diesel vehicle.

anchor5072 · July 2004

I have been using the BP Amoco diesel whenever I can. I am not sure it is UL sulfur, but its CET rating (47) is significantly better than what I was getting from other brands (41-42). I think this is a factor in getting the higher mileage I appear to be seeing. I would suggest trying it out, around here the price is not that much more. I am not sure the performance (acceleration) is noticeably better, but it does seem to have less exhaust when first starting up.

jimlockey · July 2004

Most of the oil companys have reduced the sulfur in the diesel on the East Coast as well as the West Coast and Texas. They started this 6 mons to a year ago. I find diesel fuel I buy to be pretty equal.

gagrice · July 2004

My understanding is that all BP diesel is now less than 30 ppm ULSD. In CA they have started selling the ECD-1 which is less than 15 ppm ULSD. A friend that uses it in his Ford 1 ton says there is not that blast of soot when he starts the engine. We are making progress in the right direction. If it gives you even a slight mileage increase it is a win win situation. I am waiting for CARB to see the light and allow cars with diesel to be sold again in CA.

sebring95 · July 2004

Out here in the midwest/southeast area I typically travel, most BP diesel is better fuel than the typical truck-stop, but it's not 30ppm. That is their supreme product which is difficult to find (regardless of what the pump says....). You really have to track it down. But regular BP diesel is still a fairly good product. The performance/economy/noise/smoke difference between BP Supreme and standard #2 BP diesel is rather slight. The difference between BP Supreme and who-knows-the-source truck stops is very obvious.

Now the catch with BP/Amoco is that many of these stations are owned privately and they only have to buy a certain amount of diesel from BP in order to hang out the BP/Amoco sign. They can buy from anyone they chose the rest of the time, regardless of what the sign/pump says. There is a private BP station I know of that most of the time you'll get Ashland diesel if you fill up there. Makes my TDI run like garbage, it's bottom-of-the-barrel fuel in every way. California is likely better because of their higher fuel standards. I travel through OH a lot and have some of the worst fuel regulations on the planet. Luckily the state is not more than 700 miles in any one direction!

gagrice · July 2004

I have learned a lot about diesel reading the forum and online searches. I thought all diesel was number 1 in the winter and number 2 in the summer. Far from it. So I'll drive around Ohio on my next trip East.

gcarper · July 2004

I have owned 5 VW's, the last two have been Passat Wagons (1.8T's). The current one has a Tiptronic (automatic transmission) and the previous one had a 5 speed. The 5 speed drove and felt like sports car. The Automatic, is less aggressive, but much more comfortable in heavy Northern Virginia traffic. I would wait for the DSG transmission in the TDI or even the Audi CVT transmission. My comment on the TDI Wagon - it's awesome - I happened to follow one on my motorcycle (VFR800) for about ten miles on back roads around Quantico (PW county VA) and never smelled anything but horse manure and freshly mowed grass. Way to go VW!!!!. This wagon is way better than any SUV and @ 40 MPG what else would you want (besides, DSG, HID's, Navigation, SmartAccess, Laser cruise control etc....)

gagrice · July 2004

what else would you want (besides, DSG, HID's, Navigation, SmartAccess, Laser cruise control

Are these all options available in Europe? I am leaning toward a VW TDI of some type in the next couple years. Hopefully CA will have gotten their act together on modern diesel by then...

schipperke · July 2004

Picked up a Passat Wagon TDI. The wife test drove it, and was somewhat pleased, she has an SUV mindset. So, I sprang for the leather & wood package (nice) and that closed her. Was lucky to find the color we like too, graphite silver. We walked out after being offered a so-so discount and would not come down to our number. Got a call this morning, and came to terms. Amazing how waiting another 12 hours saves you another $500.

We were contemplating on waiting for a 2005, but I've heard there will be little change. Have no idea if the 2005 sticker will go up, and if availability will be better, ergo better price.

I submitted to the bird in hand theorem. Drove the car about 100 miles, and it drives very nice.
I do notice outside temp gauge appears high, maybe engine heat or sun? The speedometer is disappointing, it reads a good 2+ mph indicated, i.e. when it shows 65 it is really 63 and 70 is actually ~68

This will run the odometer higher, and perhaps mess up some of the computer analysis?

I like the transmission, if you drive it economy minded it is smooth enough. The Tiptronic works pretty well, but can't say I'll use it much. This thing sure costs over the gassers, but if diesel does not skyrocket (now that I bought one people, watch out, it may with my luck) I think we can actually start seeing savings in about 3 years forward. If the car can last 10+ years with good care, it is all I'm asking of it. Will soon be another baby & accesories hauler.
Without kids, we would of went for the sedan, but the wagon has some really good cargo room.

jrct9454 · July 2004

For starters, a 2 mph error at the speeds you're talking about is common [less than 3%]. Secondly, it has nothing to do with the reading you'll get on the odometer. The mileage being accumulated on the odometer is very likely right on the money - check it the next time you're on a measured part of the road, which I assume you must have been to have gotten the speedo error so precisely.

Our last Acura RL had a massive 7% speedo error [a known problem with them in the early days - this was a '96], but the odometer was always spot on. There is no mechanical connection between the two in most cars these days.

idletask · August 2004

> what else would you want (besides, DSG, HID's, Navigation, SmartAccess, Laser cruise > control
>
> Are these all options available in Europe? I am leaning toward a VW TDI of some type in > the next couple years.

Not DSG, I'm afraid, at least not on the current Passat, as the DSG transmission cannot be fitted to longitudinally mounted engines - which the current Passat is, as it's based on the old Audi A4 platform.

soldieringer · August 2004

I've been looking at Passats for a while now, off and on, and I'm considering the TDI option. Anyone out there make their own fuel? I know it's not incredibly difficult to do; just curious about performance and expense. Also, living in Germany I get passed on the autobahn mostly by diesel powered cars, and they're mostly wagons. Don't know what performance problems the editors were having! But I would like to see a 2.5 TDI AWD Passat in the States.

gagrice · August 2004

I would like to see a 2.5 TDI AWD Passat in the States

I'm sure it would be popular. Biodiesel is a real option. I know of one company in Hawaii that collects used cooking oil and makes money selling B100 biodiesel at the same price as petroleum diesel. It is cleaner and eliminated 40 tons of waste oil in the landfill per month. It is a win win operation. It is better suited to warmer climates, as it gels at about 20 degrees above zero.

http://www.biodiesel.com/

weebil1 · August 2004

My understanding is a 20% mix of Bio and regular Diesel will not harm any parts on the car. Does anyone know VW position on BioDiesel in regard to violating the warantee?
I'd hate for them to use it as an excuse not to service the car, but I would like to start using it as I found someone who sells it in my area. (Buying the kit and going staight fry oil is a few years down the road-past the service contract) Viva la French Frie!

gagrice · August 2004

Here is a link to a lady that runs B100 in her 2004 Beetle TDI and loves it. She may be able to answer the warranty question. I know Mercedes does not have a problem running 100% biodiesel.

loveshemp "Biodiesel vehicles" Jul 26, 2004 5:21pm

preferdiesels · August 2004

I have now logged 4938 miles on my Passat TDI and used 157.68 gallons of fuel. That calculates to
31.3 miles per gallon for combined city and highway driving. I will be getting my first service in a few days and had thought I might get to be one of the first in my dealer's (Jack Ingram Motors, Montgomery, AL) new dealership building scheduled for completion later this month. But I don't think I can wait since I will be at 5000 miles in less than a week. So I guess I will have to be one of the last ones in the old building.
The only problem I have had with the car is the poor reception on the AM band on the radio. Hopefully they will put in a new radio and fix that problem.

dvlman · August 2004

I just picked up a new Passat Gl sedan. What real world mileage may I expect? Watching the onboard computer readout the first few miles has be disappointing. Around 22mpg. I hope it improves as this was my main reason for buying this car! Is the computer usually correct?

cosmo · August 2004

I averaged 34 MPG from the first tank off the dealer's lot. That's 75% city driving and 25% secondary highway (45-60 mph) driving. For comparison, my 1999 Chevy Tracker with a 2.0 liter engine and a 5-speed manual averages 25-26 MPG driving the same weekly routine. I have 800 miles on my TDI GL wagon now, and I've been breaking it in carefully. Next week I'll hit the freeways for a 300 mile trip and see what kind of mileage it gets at 65-75 mph.

This is my tenth VW/Audi vehicle, and it feels sooooo un-VW during routine driving. Imagine a VW engine with more torque at less than half the rpm's than the base Durango V6 and more than 1,000 pounds lighter than the Dodge. The TDI really does feel like a V8 equipped American car during routine driving. On winding roads, however, the VW/Audi heritage is reassuringly there.

houstonken · August 2004

Has any recent buyer of a passat diesel priced the comparable passat gasoline model ? I'm thinking about getting a Passat diesel wagon or sedan. Here in Houston, the VW dealers are advertising the Passat GLs (gasoline) for $19,995. The dealer I spoke to (Jersey VIllage) wanted sticker for the Passat GL diesel something around $24,000 and change.

How much more are the Passat diesels that their gasoline equilvalents ?

moparbad · August 2004

The difference in sticker price is less than $300. Dealers are taking advantage of diesel demand to obtain higher prices on the diesels. Supply and demand:(

sebring95 · August 2004

In addition, there are no incentives/rebates on the TDI's. However, if you calculate the premium fuel that the gassers require and the abysmal mpg, the diesel is a no-brainer. Nevermind the diesel will have substantially better resale value.

bjbird2 · August 2004

I don't think the 32-33mpg highway and 26mpg all-around average with my 1.8T Passat gasser can be considered " abysmal". I just wish I could use regular fuel.
A 9mpg Hummer is abysmal.

sebring95 · August 2004

The most any gasser Passat is rated for is 31mpg, so conjecture aside it's lacking the diesel by about 6mpg in any given comparison. You could likely beat the EPA on the TDI just as easily as you're beating it on the gasser. 6mpg is quite a big number, comparatively speaking.

I'll take it back, it's a very objective term. I consider 26mpg to be abysmal for a FWD car. I was getting similar mpg out of a V6 Camry 8 years ago running regular grade (when it called for premium).

dudleyr · August 2004

My fathers Passat has a lifetime average over 30 mpg and gets 35-37 mpg on the highway. MY 2000 5 speed manual with over 120,000 miles (highway EPA was 32 back then). If the diesel had a manual then it would really get good mileage - especially compared to the abysmal mileage the TDI gets with the automatic. ; ^ )

bjbird2 · August 2004

You may have gotten similar mileage with the V6 Camry, but it was not even close to the Passat in the fun to drive index.
Right now, it would take a few years at 6mpg difference and premium vs diesel to make up the up front cost difference in the gasser vs. the TDI, even with the higher resale later. They are offering great incentives on the gassers, with 0% interest. The TDIs are often selling at list or more, with higher interest rates. I've seen differences of $2500 or more. And I can also get a manual gasser.

sebring95 · August 2004

If the diesel had a manual then it would really get good mileage - especially compared to the abysmal mileage the TDI gets with the automatic. ; ^ )

No doubt, i'm averaging 47mpg with the Jetta and I drive it like I stole it. I certainly see how some folks get well over 50mpg with these.

sebring95 · August 2004

Better work fast to get a manaul, I have a feeling they'll be disappearing soon. VW is cutting the 4motion manual for '05. What's next??

There's really no price difference if you consider resale. The TDI will be worth $2500 more than the gasser for more years than I care to own one. So you're out a little cash up front or some extra interest if you're financing. Couple tanks of premium will take care of that. FWIW, I rarely ever ran premium in my V6 Camry and with over 200k miles there was nothing wrong it. I got an extra 1mpg on premium and had slightly more power under full-throttle. Not worth the fuel cost.

claudeh1 · August 2004

Don,

I'm pretty interested in the VW GLS TDI also. Haven't had a chance to drive or even see one as there are no '04's left on lots in Central Texas. '05's are due on lots within the next week. Some reviews make me think the car might be a little slow in routine driving. Other reviews contradict that and indicate how strong the torque is. Do you feel the car has plenty of get up and go? Is it reasonably quiet? Obviously, the mileage is really enticing.

Thanks, Claude H.

claudeh1 · August 2004

You say that the 2005 model will be much different than the 2004 Passat. Where can I see or read about the differences as I am in the market for an '05 since there are no '04's left in Central Texas. Thanks

sebring95 · August 2004

The '05's are the same as the '04's for the most part. Some package changes only on the TDI's. There will be a redesigned Passat released as a '05.5 model sometime later. I wouldn't look for that to have a TDI option available initially.

dewey · August 2004

"VW is cutting the 4motion manual for '05. "

That is truly a shame. Sebring95 where did you find this info?

Next year I will be interested in a AWD vehicle with manual. With no TDI, TDI/4motion or manual/4motion among 06 Passats, I may consider purchasing another vehicle.

What makes this a real shame is that VW will have TDIs and manual/4motions available in Europe next year and future years. Toyota, BMW and many other automaketers treat North America as a priority market. I guess VW thinks that we North Americans will just have to be satisfied with their scant product offerings.

sebring95 · August 2004

Who knows what they'll do with the '05.5 model, maybe they'll bring back all the different configurations. The discontinuations I gave you were for the '05 models hitting the lots now. Maybe there are supply issues or they're just keeping it simple since it's going to be a short model year, I dunno. VW seems to cut us short over here, but they'll offer us a big fat $85k sedan:rollseyes:

dewey · August 2004

Good, well I hope the 06 2.0T wagon will be available with manual/4motion. That would make me a definite potential buyer. Although my preference would have been a Passat TDI wagon with manual/4motion(unfortunately that will not exist in N. America)

texasdoc · August 2004

If anyone is looking for a new 2005 Passat TDI (sedan or wagon), there are several arriving soon at the VW dealer here in Austin, TX. I have details on colors, etc if interested. I signed the papers on mine 3 days after it rolled off the truck (would have been 2 if not for Sunday getting in the way!)

gagrice · August 2004

Keep us posted as to how you like the TDI wagon... I could get into one of them for my home in Hawaii...

houstonken · September 2004

How much off of sticker did they discount ?

Did you compare the prices between gas and diesel passats ?

texasdoc · September 2004

They won't discount off sticker, at least for the more desirable ones (with leather/wood, etc). I think you could probably get $500 off at most on a TDI. The demand is such that they sell as soon as they roll off the truck. I did not try to work a deal on a gas Passat, so I don't know how low they would have gone, but judging by the lot full of 2004s you could probably get $1000 or $1500 off sticker. As I see it, there will not be enough Passat TDIs produced to meet the demand, so the prices are going to stay high. There also may not be a TDI next model year, so I decided to go ahead and pay the premium to get the car I wanted. I hope to make it up over time in fuel savings (partially) and in increased resale value (mostly). Used Jetta TDIs seem to have significantly higher resale value than their gas counterparts.

gagrice · September 2004

Used Jetta TDIs seem to have significantly higher resale value than their gas counterparts.

That's a fact. Look at the used prices in Kona for a 2002 Jetta TDI $20,995. The dealer told me he sells mostly TDI on the Big Island. By contrast Findlay Motors in Las Vegas has several new Jetta TDI's. You can get a Jetta GLS TDI for as little as $21,055. It would pay to travel around to get the best buy.

http://www.mckennakona.com/en_US/

VW Passat TDI

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